151 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

From a realism point of view, of course ammo should be some kind of equipment rather than a power.

 

But from a gameplay point of view I think it worked reasonably well. It gave the combat classes some way to differentiate them from the casting classes. It gave them near passive powers that enhanced their guns through damage and other effects that could be switched around depending on the type of enemies you were facing. It also opened up different build possibilities, especially when squad ammo was taken into account.

 

If it stays as a single global countdown for powers I would be quite happy to leave ammunition powers in regardless of how ridiculous it is from realism point of view. 

[ZipZap2000]

Still not convinced either way here.

[iM3GTR]

Bring back chemical rounds! Acid juice, anyone?

[10K]

Bring back chemical rounds! Acid juice, anyone?

Yes they need to bring back all those weapon mods; Polonium, chemical, proton, hammerhead, shredder, man the list goes on and on. I remember a lot of them. Now I really want to pop in some ME1!!

[iM3GTR]

Yes they need to bring back all those weapon mods; Polonium, chemical, proton, hammerhead, shredder, man the list goes on and on. I remember a lot of them. Now I really want to pop in some ME1!!

Don't forget High Explosive rounds! Stick a few in a shotgun and shoot at people's feet.

[10K]

Don't forget High Explosive rounds! Stick a few in a shotgun and shoot at people's feet.

Yeah but you had to make sure you also equipped that shotgun with either frictionless materials or a heat sink or it would overheat after one shot LOL.

[iM3GTR]

Yeah but you had to make sure you also equipped that shotgun with either frictionless materials or a heat sink or it would overheat after one shot LOL.

It does that anyway. Even with two anti-overheating upgrades.

[SKAR]

I don't know about any of you but I always found disruptor ammo, warp ammo, etc... as a waste of an ability. I don't believe they should take up an entire power slot, especially now that MP have introduced so many knew abilities that can work with every class. I propose special ammo be reduced into some type of weapon mod that don't last the entire mission. I think it would be cool to carry a few with you and the effect last until it's time to switch out for a new thermal clip. I think it would be much more interesting this way. So any Ideas?

It would leave more room for cooler special abilities.

[ZipZap2000]

I'm still not convinced either way and would like to hear what others think. Not that this is a bump or anything.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And then ME2 Happened. Thermal Clips are ammo clips now because gameplay.

It made gameplay worse, I think.

Luckily ME3 effectively removed the requirement by making clips so common that you couldn't really run out, by lowering the difficulty so much that combat was never challenging, and by offering powers-only solutions to most combat encounters. My ME3 Engineer barely fired her weapon after the game's intro.

[SKAR]

It made gameplay worse, I think.

Luckily ME3 effectively removed the requirement both by making clips so common that you couldn't really run out, and by lowering the difficulty so much that combat was never challenging, and by offering powers-only solutions to most combat encounters. My ME3 Engineer barely fired her weapon after the game's intro.

So we have limited ammunition on one end and on the other painfully long waiting times that can lead to death.

[Iakus]

So we have limited ammunition on one end and on the other painfully long waiting times that can lead to death.

Not really.

 

Ammo has never been especially limited in ME2 or ME3.  While the cooldown times actually added a level of challenge in ME1 (and the ones that had it in ME3.) Thermal clips never really added anything to the game, and actually removed the challenge of watching your rate of fire.

[capn233]

It made gameplay worse, I think.

 

It was an incentive to use the weapons against the correct protection, and to use powers and the squad effectively.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'm still not convinced either way and would like to hear what others think. Not that this is a bump or anything.

Iakus made this point earlier, but it bears repeating:

If ammo is an ability or power rather than a weapon mod, what's actually happening in-game? Is there a setting on the weapon that enables Cryo-ammo? Why can't an Adept turn it on?

What is the in-world explanation for ammo abilities? Is there one? Can there be?

[SKAR]

Not really.

Ammo has never been especially limited in ME2 or ME3. While the cooldown times actually added a level of challenge in ME1 (and the ones that had it in ME3.) Thermal clips never really added anything to the game, and actually removed the challenge of watching your rate of fire.

I meant it's not infinite. You could run out. At least in ME 2. But will it change in Andromeda?

[SKAR]

It was an incentive to use the weapons against the correct protection, and to use powers and the squad effectively.

good point.

[ZipZap2000]

Iakus made this point earlier, but it bears repeating:
If ammo is an ability or power rather than a weapon mod, what's actually happening in-game? Is there a setting on the weapon that enables Cryo-ammo? Why can't an Adept turn it on?
What is the in-world explanation for ammo abilities? Is there one? Can there be?

Ok lets say they can. Lets say all classes can access them all as mods again. What's the argument against that?

[capn233]

^There doesn't need to be real world explanations for gameplay mechanics.

 

Otherwise the game in a fictional setting isn't going to work in the first place.  Why can't a soldier have an omnitool that fires Incinerate?  Why can't his omnitool use mass effect fields to lift targets into the air?

 

I am not necessarily opposed to turning ammo back into something that all classes have access to, but it should follow from gameplay not necessarily 'real life" sort of justifications.  The hard part is making the combat classes unique, specifically soldier, without just giving them straight weapon buffs or creating a bunch of active powers on them that turn them into the combat caster with combat versions of tech or biotic powers.

[Iakus]

I meant it's not infinite. You could run out. At least in ME 2. But will it change in Andromeda?

I have never run out of ammo for any weapon but the sniper rifle.  And even then I'd have to be making really heavy use of it.

[Iakus]

Ok lets say they can. Lets say all classes can access them all as mods again. What's the argument against that?

None.

 

In fact, I'd say that opens up new possibilities.

 

I mean, you can use any kind of ammo, but say you can craft better versions of certain kinds of ammo.  Which do you upgrade?

 

Or let's say you can only carry a couple of ammo mods onto a mission.  Which do you take?  

 

Can certain classes get bonuses from certain mods?

[10K]

^There doesn't need to be real world explanations for gameplay mechanics.
 
Otherwise the game in a fictional setting isn't going to work in the first place.  Why can't a soldier have an omnitool that fires Incinerate?  Why can't his omnitool use mass effect fields to lift targets into the air?
 
I am not necessarily opposed to turning ammo back into something that all classes have access to, but it should follow from gameplay not necessarily 'real life" sort of justifications.  The hard part is making the combat classes unique, specifically soldier, without just giving them straight weapon buffs or creating a bunch of active powers on them that turn them into the combat caster with combat versions of tech or biotic powers.

Well it follows aspects of lore. The lore for ammo as mods is way more flesh out and it makes sense. They are upgrades for your weapon, whereas there is no explanation for them being powers other then the weapon is empowered, but how exactly?

[capn233]

Well it follows aspects of lore. The lore for ammo as mods is way more flesh out and it makes sense. They are upgrades for your weapon, whereas there is no explanation other then the weapon is empowered, but how exactly?

 

You would need to point me at the lore on that, I don't recall it.  They did it in ME1, but then didn't do that in ME2 or 3.  ME3 MP is inconsistent with lore in many ways, so the gameplay mechanics there can't be evidence.

[10K]

You would need to point me at the lore on that, I don't recall it.  They did it in ME1, but then didn't do that in ME2 or 3.  ME3 MP is inconsistent with lore in many ways, so the gameplay mechanics there can't be evidence.

Link for all ammunation lore for ME1: http://masseffect.wi...nition_Upgrades

Varies links for all weapon powers, they all say basically the same thing. The weapon is empowered with varies kinds of fields that have never been expressed before or have no lore on their own (i.e cryo field, electric field).

Cryo ammo:http://masseffect.wi.../wiki/Cryo_Ammo

Disruptor ammo: http://masseffect.wi.../Disruptor_Ammo

inferno ammo: http://masseffect.wi...Incendiary_Ammo

You can find the others just by typing the ammo type in google search

[ZipZap2000]

None.

In fact, I'd say that opens up new possibilities.

I mean, you can use any kind of ammo, but say you can craft better versions of certain kinds of ammo. Which do you upgrade?

Or let's say you can only carry a couple of ammo mods onto a mission. Which do you take?

Can certain classes get bonuses from certain mods?

I agree but lets say we're upgrading ammo at the weapon mod table wouldn't that require a second upgrade tree or are we upgrading ammo mods like the rest?

Because if we're doing the latter you're removing certain upgrades.

[Iakus]

I agree but lets say we're upgrading ammo at the weapon mod table wouldn't that require a second upgrade tree or are we upgrading ammo mods like the rest?

Because if we're doing the latter you're removing certain upgrades.

I'd say it would be more akin to crafting.  you're creating an add-on to your weapon which, when selected, changes how your attacks work.  

 

Like a Dragon Age rune you can turn on and off.  Or remove entirely and give to someone else.