23 réponses à ce sujet

[TheInvoker]

how many itmes can be obtained from a trial?

If the answere is "1",is it possible to know which trials i have already passed so i can turn them off?

 

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Trials

here i read some tips to pass the trials,but i don't understand if it's the only way to pass them.

Example:"Wait until your Inquisitor reaches level 16, then turn the trial on and travel to the Hinterlands to fight the Fereldan Frostback high dragon. See the Frostback's page for a strategy guide"

What if i kill that dragon before level 16?

[Rascoth]

The bit with dragon you wrote about will not give you item reward, but achievement. "Trial of ..." (achievements) and actual trials that you can set in options are two different things. 

And you have to kill it after reaching lvl16 and turning Even Ground on for this particular achievement.

 

You can earn item rewards while having trials turned on. The more you have them on, the higher your chance for item. There's no limit for how many items you can earn, but only one item can be in your reward box at a time (if you don't claim it, you can't earn the second one until you do so).

[TheInvoker]

so there is no way to understand how to get items?? it's random drop?

example:how and when i get item (if i get) from disabling healing potions?

OR

when do i get item after killing a bear? is it random?

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Not true, I have had as many as five items for trial rewards in the chest.

[PapaCharlie9]

Not true, I have had as many as five items for trial rewards in the chest.

You sure they weren't DLC items, like Flames of the Inquisition items? I've only ever got one special delivery at a time. Although I suppose if you don't pick it up right way, maybe it stays there and you might earn a second one? I never wanted to risk it, always try to pick it up as soon as I earn it.
 

so there is no way to understand how to get items?? it's random drop?
example:how and when i get item (if i get) from disabling healing potions?
OR
when do i get item after killing a bear? is it random?

It's a random drop. And you don't kill one bear. You have to kill a lot of them. The drop chance is pretty low. No one actually knows what the drop rates are, but from the written descriptions, we know that the drop rate for Grizzly End, Even Ground, Rub Dirt On It and Walk Softly should be higher than any of the others, because they say "significantly" as opposed to "slightly" for the others.

"Significantly" is relative. I'd be surprised if the "significantly" drop rate was above 5%. It's probably less than 2%. I certainly have to kill a lot of stuff before I get a drop with both Walk Softly and Even Ground enabled.

[Gilli]

You sure they weren't DLC items, like Flames of the Inquisition items? I've only ever got one special delivery at a time. Although I suppose if you don't pick it up right way, maybe it stays there and you might earn a second one? I never wanted to risk it, always try to pick it up as soon as I earn it.

 

I once had two Fade-Touched Metals in the chest, (it was a looong main quest, I think HLtA) so it is possible to get more than one at the time from the chest.

I did get two notifications during the quest and then one when I was back in Skyhold. <-- I think the Skyhold notification is just to tell you again, that something's waiting for you to pick it up.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Nope just pulled 1 sigil and 3 fade touched mats out of that thing not five minutes ago after running the whole HLTA chain and related areas. I rarely have just one item in there, always at least two and generally more than that (and not counting schematics, weapons, DLC or pre order stuff that also gets in there.)

 

And yes I got the four notifications in the field. After a while it seems all I get is fade touched mats that I don't have but, I still get rewards.

[Rascoth]

Not true, I have had as many as five items for trial rewards in the chest.

Really? Wow... So my game bugged? Because I definitely earned two items, yet pulled only one out of the chest 

Since then I was taking them out as soon as I earn them.

[nightscrawl]

That wiki page covers two aspects of the trials. The first is the reward system that gives you items based on a percentage chance, which is based off the difficulty of a given trial. The second are achievements related to having the trials active.
 
Let's just take the achievement Trial of the Fool, which is gained on reaching Skyhold at level 5 or less. This achievement is used in coordination with the Take It Slow trial, which cuts XP gains by half. If you are only using trials for the achievements, you turn it on, and then off again when you have the achievement. The descriptions on the trials page under Hints and Tips are about gaining the achievement, NOT about the rewards.
 
For the rewards, each individual trial increases your chance of getting a reward, with some giving a higher chance than others.
 
* * *
 
I'll give some examples. These are made up numbers, since I don't know the actual percentage.
 
Even Ground - Enemies always scale to be at least the same level as the Inquisitor. Significantly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
Walk Softly - The enemies of the Inquisitor may have new traits and abilities in combat. Significantly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
* Rub Some Dirt on It - All healing potions heal only 1 health. Significantly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
Grizzly End - You thought bears were tough? Think again. Significantly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
* Travel Light - All supply caches are removed from the game. Slightly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
* Rest Easy - You lose all focus if you rest or travel to a camp. Slightly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
* Take It Slow - You gain XP at half the normal rate. Slightly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
Fair-Weather Friends - Negative approval changes for followers are doubled. Slightly increases the chance of receiving special shipment rewards in your stronghold.
 
 
So, for the sake of this example, let's say that the "significant" chance increase is 10%, and the "slight" chance is 5%.
 
if you add all of those up -- (10x4) + (5x4) = 40+20 = 60. That is a 60% chance total to get a reward if you have ALL of the trials turned on.
 
Now, if you're like me and not interested in a challenge, or achievements, but only want items, you may turn on some of the easier ones, like Rub Some Dirt on It (potions heal 1 health), Travel Light (no supply caches in dungeons), Rest Easy (focus resets on traveling to a camp), Take It Slow (half XP gain). Playing in casual mode also helps. That is 1 "significantly" and 3 "slightly," which would be a total of 25% chance to gain a reward with that selection of trials.
 
I think that Travel Light may only apply in dungeons, as there are no supply caches in the outside world, so that 5% may not be active while out exploring. In addition, you do have to be out in the world exploring and also fighting. You don't get anything while just standing around in a camp.
 
 
One final tip is that you can "save scum" if you're looking for a specific item. If you want, say, the Armada Captain's Knife Schematic, once you have a reward available, you can stand in front of the chest, do a save (a hard save by going to the menu and hitting "save," OR a quick save), and open the chest to obtain the reward. If it's not the thing you want, then you just load up your save, re-open the chest, and continue to repeat this until you get your desired item.

Also, keep in mind that there is a level division. There is an initial grouping of items that will change on reaching level 13, so be sure to collect the things you want, save scumming if necessary, before level 13. After that point, there is a new selection of items available.

 

You sure they weren't DLC items, like Flames of the Inquisition items? I've only ever got one special delivery at a time. Although I suppose if you don't pick it up right way, maybe it stays there and you might earn a second one? I never wanted to risk it, always try to pick it up as soon as I earn it.

 
They will just accumulate until you pick them up. On one occasion I got two reward messages while out exploring and they were both waiting for me when I got back.

[TheInvoker]

the percentage is 25%-30% or whatever but i don't understand what i have to do.

Ok kill bears or kill promoted enemies is clear (i think) but what about other things? i don't get heal from potions so how can i get reward from that trial?

 

Or maybe trials give me chance to get items but not only doing the things decribed in the trials?? if it's this way every kill should have a chance to drop items

[TheInvoker]

i just found out that rewards are not fixed through saves,i mean that they change every time you reload the game

they can store (i had 3) so i just made a quick save in front of the box and i releaded until i got heart of despair

 

Having 3 items stored made it easier to get what i want but i had to accept the other 2. if you do this every time you get a reward you can get more wanted items but i guess more reloads are needed every time (i made like 3 reloads) since mostly of the times i was getting materials. i found bolt 1 time and bow of artifice 3 times before getting heart of despair.

[nightscrawl]

^ Yes, that is what I mean by "save scumming" in my above post.

 

As for what you need to do, you simply play the game, go out exploring and get in fights. You don't have to do anything specific. Most of the trials change the state of things. Let's take the Rub Some Dirt on It where all potions heal 1 health. That means that you can't rely on potions to get through dangerous fights, so the game is harder. The game knows this. So by playing and getting into fights with that trial on, you are using the trial and making the game harder.

 

Having the trial on only increases your chance of getting something by whatever percentage.

[TheInvoker]

ah sorry i missed that part

[PapaCharlie9]

the percentage is 25%-30% or whatever but i don't understand what i have to do.
Ok kill bears or kill promoted enemies is clear (i think) but what about other things? i don't get heal from potions so how can i get reward from that trial?
 
Or maybe trials give me chance to get items but not only doing the things decribed in the trials?? if it's this way every kill should have a chance to drop items

It's probably that, for every kill, all of your trials are examined and a die is rolled. For Travel Light, it might be completing quests rather than kills. Fairweather Friends might be any approval decision.

But the ultimate truth is, none of us know for sure. Your guess is as good as mine.

But it ain't 25-30%, I promise you that. I'd get a reward after every mob battle, if that were true. Divide by 10 or 50 would be closer to the mark.

[nightscrawl]

^ For sure on the percentages. I only used those higher numbers earlier because it was easier to explain and math out.

[TheInvoker]

saving and reloading made my life much easier,now i always get what i want.

only sigils are hard to find

Maybe not all are available

[PapaCharlie9]

I wonder what would have been better as a game design? The way it works now, where it takes a long time for one to drop, but you can save scum to get something you want, or to increase the chances of the drops and no save scumming, you get what you get?

I think it's unlikely (though not impossible) that save scumming was an intentional design on their part when DAI first came out, but at this late date, I'd be shocked if the game designers did not take save scumming into account when designing Trials. They had to have known that save scumming was possible in the container they were using, and what that would mean for balance.

[TheInvoker]

I wonder what would have been better as a game design? The way it works now, where it takes a long time for one to drop, but you can save scum to get something you want, or to increase the chances of the drops and no save scumming, you get what you get?

I think it's unlikely (though not impossible) that save scumming was an intentional design on their part when DAI first came out, but at this late date, I'd be shocked if the game designers did not take save scumming into account when designing Trials. They had to have known that save scumming was possible in the container they were using, and what that would mean for balance.

 

Normal games doesn't have this system

I prefer a game that doesn't allow me the save&reload explot but that also gives me the chance to find ALL items (and schematics) always in the SAME location for every playthrough

[nightscrawl]

^   "Normal games." Those don't exist, there are just games. Some methods of doing things, like loot, may be more common than others, but that's all it is. I can't stand the random stat allocation system in the Diablo games, but that is how they do it, so I have to live with it.

 

Part of the reason for the loot differences in DAI compared to DAO and DA2 is that the DAI maps are much larger and more dynamic, and they tried to encourage exploration. DAO/2 had linear maps that offered no incentive to return once you had completely cleared them out of every single spec of loot and every living creature. DAI is not like that. It has maps with a level range, respawning crafting resources, collections to complete, and random groups that appear (bandits, red templars).

 

The problem with the DAI loot system was a faulty thought process behind its implementation. I believe they wanted to offer the player an incentive to play repeatedly -- each chest is a chance to find something new -- while forgetting that the goal of many players is to obtain "the best" items. There is also the aspect of wanting to "look cool" while playing. All they gave us with this system was frustration.

 

I'm with PapaCharlie9 in thinking that save scumming was not intentional, and in fact they did patch out some other exploits later on, and also tried to make up for some of these problems by giving us the golden nug. They also never patched out the storage item dupe exploit, even though it was a known thing before they had finished patching the game; they left us with that.

 

All in all, it's something they can learn from when developing the next game.

[TheInvoker]

superb/unique items and lvl3/4 schematics should have been placed in the same place every time,the rest could have been random

 

This game has so many bad things,i don't understand why i like it....going more OT,i really hate the fact that in game there no/poor descriptions of items/abilities:

-Belt of inderno pact=Fire-based abilities are slightly more powerful at the cost of a small amount of health.....WHAT??  you have to tell me exactly how mych HP i'm losing and how much more damage i'm doing

it's the same when reading "significantly" or "Slightly" in the Trials activation page.we were talking about 1%/5% chance...and we don't even know if there is a motivation to receive reward or it's random

 

And then so many bugs not solved

 

Edit:

Have you ever found sigil of great bear and sigil of deepstalker?? they are the only ones i use (lyrium is bugged) and i can't find them.i always find these ones:Sigil of Deathroot,Sigil of Felandaris,Sigil of Lyrium,Sigil of the Arcane Horror,Sigil of the Bronto

 

i can't find also belt of winter pact,while i found several times infernal and storm

[PapaCharlie9]

superb/unique items and lvl3/4 schematics should have been placed in the same place every time,the rest could have been random

Most unique items do have unique locations that you can look up in the Wiki. Many are quest or War Table mission rewards.

So it's not like their system can't do it. It has to be as @nightscrawl said: they wanted to randomize the rest of the loot to increase replay value.

But I do agree with you that they never should have randomized schematics. Even tier 1. That was just a mistake. Which they tried to correct with the GN, and of course ended up overcorrecting, since now you can have Tier 4 gear your first day in Haven.
 

-Belt of inderno pact=Fire-based abilities are slightly more powerful at the cost of a small amount of health.....WHAT??  you have to tell me exactly how mych HP i'm losing and how much more damage i'm doing
it's the same when reading "significantly" or "Slightly" in the Trials activation page.we were talking about 1%/5% chance...and we don't even know if there is a motivation to receive reward or it's random

I feel your pain. This drives min/maxers nuts. I'm not sure what motivates game designers to leave important specs vague. Maybe because they intended to tweak it a few more patches? Maybe because it has a different value in MP? Who knows.
 

Edit:
Have you ever found sigil of great bear and sigil of deepstalker?? they are the only ones i use (lyrium is bugged) and i can't find them.i always find these ones:Sigil of Deathroot,Sigil of Felandaris,Sigil of Lyrium,Sigil of the Arcane Horror,Sigil of the Bronto
 
i can't find also belt of winter pact,while i found several times infernal and storm

I've gotten both. However, I've only ever gotten one Great Bear in a play through, despite farming as many bears as I possible could. Never seen either of those Sigils in many dozens of save scums of Special Shipment rewards, but I could fill the Undercroft to the ceiling with the number of Sigil of Felandaris that rewards have tried to give me. All the useless dragon sigils, too.

But I can't complain too much. I get FT Push Fustian Velvet, the Hidden Blades x5 kind, almost as often.

[TheInvoker]

For the sigils i think that those ones can be found only at earlier levels. i tried to load a save where i was lvl 12 and i got a reward...i found a great bear sigil. not sure about the deepstalker but i found other sigils i wasn't finding at lvl 18 (revenant,golem)

 

while for the belt,i found the inferno also at lvl 12 so i can't be different at lvl 18

 

For the bad descriptions: every time i was trying to understand what some abilities do exaclty,making my own tests but it's boring most of the times and i give...maybe 2 months later (after not playing at all)  i do those tests again

if i just saved my research in a file i could have discovered may things now,for those who are playing now and will play in the future.

 

Now i have some tests about mana regen (that is not explained at all in the game) but it's incomplete and it's the only one i have saved. Maybe in 5 years,when noone will play this game,i could have got all answers

[PapaCharlie9]

For the sigils i think that those ones can be found only at earlier levels. i tried to load a save where i was lvl 12 and i got a reward...i found a great bear sigil. not sure about the deepstalker but i found other sigils i wasn't finding at lvl 18 (revenant,golem)

 

while for the belt,i found the inferno also at lvl 12 so i can't be different at lvl 18

 

For the bad descriptions: every time i was trying to understand what some abilities do exaclty,making my own tests but it's boring most of the times and i give...maybe 2 months later (after not playing at all)  i do those tests again

if i just saved my research in a file i could have discovered may things now,for those who are playing now and will play in the future.

 

Now i have some tests about mana regen (that is not explained at all in the game) but it's incomplete and it's the only one i have saved. Maybe in 5 years,when noone will play this game,i could have got all answers

 

Make sure you read the older mechanics threads. Others have done boring testing also, but they posted their results.

 

http://forum.bioware...mbat-mechanics/

 

http://forum.bioware...-and-mechanics/

 

http://forum.bioware...he-game-harder/

 

http://forum.bioware...pgrade-toggles/

[TheInvoker]

Yes i know them but i like to verify myself and see if what i find is = to what i read

As you can see from the first 2 links,the damage formula is different. i guess none know exactly the forumla for sure. Everyone just takes the one that gives numbers more similare to numbers shown during tests in game.

 

i gave my help to some of those threads. (mostly bugs on abilities)

 

those are cumulative

 

i search specific tests on mana regeneration (now) and if all passive abilities works as intended