Questa discussione ha avuto 47 risposte

[PapaCharlie9]

PYRO NECROMANCER
 
This is my Dorian build. Since I pick up Dorian around level 5, I don't have the very earliest build steps, but since all my early mage builds are the same, it shouldn't matter. Just buy him a Tactician's Amulet as soon as you can.

You can of course also use it for your Inquisitor. I've added Inquisitor-only abilities as appropriate.

The build is broken down into stages:

Pre-specialization: My core mage build, can be used for any mage.

First respec for Specialization: After the specialization is obtained, a respec is highly recommended to pick up Necromancer passives right away.

Full build: The is a fully operational Necro build with the minimum number of ability points.

Once you have a level capped build, you can do this:

http://forum.bioware...damage-in-game/

Rationale for each stage is given in post #2. This post just has the raw point spends and actives, for the sake of brevity. The Pre-Specialization point spend is in level-up order.

------------------------------

Recommended Race: Qunari or Human (for an Inquisitor)

PRE-SPECIALIZATION
Points required: 9-12

Spoiler

1. Barrier
2. Immolate
3. Flashpoint
4. Energy Barrage
5. Guardian Spirit
6. Elegant Defense upgrade to Barrier
7. Pyromancer
8. Fire Mine
9. Searing Glyph/Flaming Array upgrade to Fire Mine

That build will get you through the Haven raid, with the help of Bee Grenades and upgraded Regen potions.

If you have the Even Ground trial enabled, you'll need Dispel. You can swap Peaceful Aura for Guardian Spirit and Dispel for Elegant Defense, then add those later.

If you have a few more points before you get to Skyhold:

10. Wildfire/Consuming Fire upgrade to Immolate
11. Peaceful Aura
12. Dispel

Actives
1/ Barrier/Elegant Defense
2/ Immolate/Wildfire
3/ Fire Mine/Searing Glyph (or Flaming Array if you need more defense)
4/ Energy Barrage
5/ Dispel

FIRST RESPEC FOR SPECIALIZATION
Points required: 12-14

Spoiler

1. Horror
2. Death Siphon
3. Blinding Terror
4. Simulacrum
5. Walking Bomb
6. Virulent/Concentrated Detonation upgrade to Walking Bomb
7. Barrier
8. Immolate
9. Flashpoint
10. Pyromancer
11. Fire Mine
12. Searing Glyph/Flaming Array upgrade

If you have a couple more points
13. Energy Barrage
14. Wildfire/Consuming fire upgrade to Immolate

Again, if you have Walk Softly Trial enabled, you'll have to prioritize getting Dispel (or someone in the party has to) over other abilities.

Actives
1/ Barrier
2/ Immolate/Wildfire
3/ Fire Mine/Searing Glyph (or Flaming Array if you need more defense)
4/ Horror
5/ Walking Bomb/Concentrated Detonation (or Virulent against big mobs)
6/ Energy Barrage
7/ Mark of the Rift (for Inquisitor)

As soon as you have free points, spend them on the Necro passive Power of the Dead.

FULL BUILD
Points required: 24

Spoiler

1. Barrier
2. Elegant Defense upgrade to Barrier
3. Peaceful Aura
4. Dispel
5. Transmute Magic upgrade to Dispel
6. Horror
7. Despair/Terror upgrade to Horror
8. Death Siphon
9. Power of the Dead
10. Blinding Terror
11. Simulacrum
12. Walking Bomb
13. Virulent/Concentrated Detonation upgrade to Walking Bomb
14. Immolate
15. Wildfire/Consuming Fire upgrade to Immolate
16. Flashpoint
17. Pyromancer
18. Fire Mine
19. Searing Glyph/Flaming Array upgrade to Fire Mine
20. Cleanburn
21. Wall of Fire
22. Lasting Flames/Wave of Flame upgrade to Wall of Fire
23. Energy Barrage
24. Energy Bombardment upgrade to Energy Barrage

Actives
1/ Barrier
2/ Immolate/Wildfire
3/ Fire Mine/Searing Glyph (or Flaming Array if you need more defense)
4/ Wall of Fire/Wave of Flame
5/ Walking Bomb/Concentrated Detonation (or Virulent against big mobs)
6/ Energy Barrage
7/ Dispel
8/ Mark of the Rift or Aegis of the Rift (for Inquisitor)
otherwise
8/ Horror

Your next 4-5 points could either go into Storm to trick out Static Cage, or, you could go into Winter for more defense and a very nice fire/ice array combo attack.

25. Conductive Current
26. Static Charge
27. Static Cage (replaces Immolate in actives)
28. Lightning Cage/Tethered Cage upgrade to Static Cage

-or-

25. Fade Step
26. Winter Stillness
27. Ice Mine (replaces Immolate in actives)
28. Chilling Array upgrade to Ice Mine
29. Ice Armor

 

ottffsse's Supreme Damage Mechanic

 

Spoiler

See the link at the top of the post. It contains a discussion of how to stack Walking Bomb damage and how to get the most out of Fire Mine damage. In the video in that post, you can see a Pyro Necro doing 23k - 43k hits against Trespasser Revenants. If you want to achieve what may be the highest peak damage any mage can do, you need to make the following changes to the Full Build above:

• Toggle the Elegant Defense upgrade of Barrier to Energetic Defense
• Toggle the Searing Glyph upgrade of Fire Mine to Flaming Array
  • You want more mines to proc Walking Bomb
  • You don't give up much damage, because of the Inferno Pact belt
• Buy Chaotic Focus (you should have all the Inferno passives)
• Buy Ice Mine with Chilling Array upgrade
  • You want more mines to proc Walking Bomb
• Buff your critical chance as much as you can
• Equip the Enhanced or Superior Belt of Inferno Pact (to boost Fire Mine damage to a ridonculous level)
• Equip the Enhanced Walking Bomb ring
• Equip the Andraste's Sacrifice amulet
• Equip a Superb ring
  • The video doesn't show which one he uses, but probably one of these:
    • The Hand That Cuts
    • Superb Ring of Critical Damage
    • Superb Ring of Attack
• Craft armor with maximum crit chance (Cunning) and Tier 3 Walking Bomb Masterwork - use the Skin That Strikes if you can
• Craft a fire staff with maximum crit chance, crit damage, attack, and Superb Spirit Rune
  • If you use the Superior Belt of Inferno Pact, the Masterwork should be Heal 1% on Hit 
  • Otherwise, the Masterwork can be a Tier 2 Walking Bomb (MUST be a different tier!)
  • Use the Encore Staff schematic if you can
• Craft a helmet that increases crit chance or attack (Willpower/Magic) or both
  • I don't know what helmet offttsse uses in the video, a 0 armor Vitaar on a human? Might be CE or a mod.

 

If you add Static Cage with Lightning Cage upgrade to the above, change the staff to electricity, equip the Ring of Doubt, and make sure you have Ice Armor from Winter, and have some Fire Resistance tonics for defense,  you can solo the final boss of Trespasser.

 

Actives

1/ Energy Barrage

2/ Fade Step/Frost Step

3/ Ice Mine/Chlling Array

4/ Walking Bomb (toggle upgrade as needed)

5/ Barrier

6/ Spirit Mark (or your focus ability)

7/ Static Cage/Lightning Cage

8/ Fire Mine/Flaming Array

 

 

[PapaCharlie9]

RATIONALE FOR THE BUILD
 
The basic tactic for this build is to scare the crap out of targets (Panicked status) and feast on the fear to buff your damage. More damage means more deaths, which in turn buffs your mana regen and health. Since fire attacks can also Panic targets, Inferno is a natural complement to Necro abilities.

Q: Why Qunari or Human? (for an Inquisitor)
 
A: Qunari gets 10% physical resistance, which helps you survive the early game. Human gets an extra ability point, which gets you to your build goal sooner.
 
Q: Can you explain the Pre-Specialization Build Active Abilities?
 
A: This is core mage stuff. The highest damage spells for pre-spec mages are in Inferno, so Immolate and Searing Glyph are the heavy hitters. Use a staff of a non-fire element, electricity is good, so that Energy Barrage has a complementary attack, in case you run into fire resistant enemies. The rest are defense abilities. Dispel helps speed up the closure of rifts. Fewer demons to fight.
 
Q: Can you explain the Pre-Specialization Build passives?
 
A: Again, this is core mage stuff. Flashpoint is the luck passive -- if you roll lucky, you get a free ability usage. Guardian Spirit keeps you alive in the early game. Note that it should be dropped as soon as you have Simulacrum, since they kind of cancel each other out. Pyromancer buffs your fire attacks.
 
Q: Can you explain the Necromancer spend in the First Respec For Specialization Build?
 
A: You don't have enough points to fill in the whole tree, so you have to prioritize. Walking Bomb is the priority, get that ASAP. Why? Because 600% damage (900% with upgrade) AND 200% DoT for 10 seconds. That's face-rolling power. If you face a tightly packed mob, Virulent can take out the entire mob all by itself! So you need the entire right side of the tree. It's worth a point to get Death Siphon, however, since it helps keep you alive.
 
Q: For the Full Build, how does the basic tactic change?
 
A: It doesn't, really. You just have Walking Bomb to throw in the attack mix for peak damage. Some bosses and demi-bosses are immune to Panicked, so switch to your damage dealing abilities. If you have time to prepare for an immune boss battle, adjust your loadout to drop Wall of Fire.

Q: How do I make the best use of Simulacrum?

A: Immolate is one of the fastest (animation-wise) spells to cast, so spam the hell out of that before you drop.
 
Q: Why not take Spirit Mark?
 
A: Spirit Mark is a good ability, particularly against spirit weak targets, but I prefer the other abilities in the build. I get more bang for the buck out of Energy Barrage, Static Cage or Ice Mine. Plus, I think they are more fun. Upgraded Spirit Mark causes a lot of visual "noise" in combat. Lots of purple cloud/spark/laserbeam stuff that kind of distracts me.

So basically, it's just personal preference.
 
Q: Why not Haste, the focus ability? (for Inquisitor)
 
A: It's just not cost effective. It costs a point that you can't afford and worse, takes an active slot you can't afford. MotR or Aegis are way more useful. Plus, it's weird. What does it have to do with Necro?

[Bayonet Hipshot]

This is my Dorian build. Since I pick up Dorian around level 5,

 

If this is your Dorian build then why does it have Mark of the Rift / Aegis of the Rift in it ?

[PapaCharlie9]

If this is your Dorian build then why does it have Mark of the Rift / Aegis of the Rift in it ?

Oopsie, you are right. I will fix.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Oopsie, you are right. I will fix.

 

You could also give some roleplay reasons to be a Necromancer. I mean the specialization is the shadiest mage specialization so curious on what do you think the reasons are for the mage protagonist to be a Necromancer.

 

Other questions:-

 

1) Why Elegant Defense instead of Energetic Defense ?

 

2) Why the investment into Energy Bombardment ? The magic resistance drop-off doesn't last very long, no ?

 

3) How about mana management ?

[PapaCharlie9]

Other questions:-
 
1) Why Elegant Defense instead of Energetic Defense ?
 
2) Why the investment into Energy Bombardment ? The magic resistance drop-off doesn't last very long, no ?
 
3) How about mana management ?

1) Unless I'm using Chaotic Focus, I want barrier to be cast more frequently, rather than last longer. Particularly in a party situation where Dorian's ability to cast barrier on you when you are hurting could save you.

2) Granted, it's a minor buff, but when stacked with other elemental damage, like Static Cage, it does add up. I'm totally okay with not taking the upgrade, though.

3) Not sure what you mean about mana management.

[Dai Grepher]

You could also give some roleplay reasons to be a Necromancer. I mean the specialization is the shadiest mage specialization so curious on what do you think the reasons are for the mage protagonist to be a Necromancer.

My female Levellan is a Falon'Din worshiper.
 
Also, why isn't the Revive spell part of this? That is technically necromancy, right? Also Kitty' Collar should be listed as a possible item.

I also recommend a staff with the ability to inflict immolate damage so Energy Barrage can have more pyro use.

I also found that a staff with Walking Bomb worked very well for my Nerco Levellan. If you have the ability in your move set, you can choose when to detonate it, and if I recall, it comes back whenever the next Walking Bomb hits an enemy through the staff ability.

I'm mad that they nerf'd Spirit Mark. It used to have the spirit last after the battle. Now it dies after the battle. So if you get into a battle right after, it won't carry over. But I found that having a Heal on Kill item helped my Levellan a good deal. When the spirit returns to the Fade its counted as the necromancer killing it even if someone else got the last hit on the actual enemy.

[PapaCharlie9]

I added a section for ottffsse's Supreme Damage Mechanic to the OP.

[Mike3207]

What changes to the build if you're on ps3 and don't have access to the DLC like Trespasser?

 

Or will the build work without those DLC?

[PapaCharlie9]

What changes to the build if you're on ps3 and don't have access to the DLC like Trespasser?

 

Or will the build work without those DLC?

 

The main difference is that you can't use the second/toggled upgrade for abilities. So just use the first upgrade for an ability when an upgrade is specified. For example, instead of the Concentrated Detonation upgrade for Walking Bomb, use Virulent. Since you can't get Chilling Array, don't use the Winter option of the Full Build, use the Static Cage option.

 

I would not recommend Wall of Flame without the second upgrade, so use the extra points for something else, like towards Spirit Mark or Static Cage.

 

You will not be able to do the ottffsse's Supreme Damage Mechanic.

 

It will still be a strong build, no worries there.

[Rotom]

Great build! This is kind of a dumb question, but is the Arbor Wilds the only place to get a 100% weapon damage Walking Bomb masterwork? I'd also like to suggest the Kitty's Collar - it works well with Necro. When you die, you'll enter the ghost mode with the simulacrum skill, and then after have a 75% chance of reviving at half health.  

[PapaCharlie9]

This is kind of a dumb question, but is the Arbor Wilds the only place to get a 100% weapon damage Walking Bomb masterwork? 

 

What's dumb about it? Totally legit question.

 

100% WB is FT Imperial Vestment Cotton.  Sentinels in the Arbor Wilds during What Pride Had Wrought do drop that cloth, and you can farm drops there, since there are spots where the RT and Sentinels respawn indefinitely, but you can also get it from high level Venatori, like in the Hissing Wastes, at a very low drop rate.

 

But before Pride, I usually get one through Special Shipment rewards by running Trials enabled. You have to be level 13 or higher, though. According to the wiki.

[Rotom]

What's dumb about it? Totally legit question.

 

100% WB is FT Imperial Vestment Cotton.  Sentinels in the Arbor Wilds during What Pride Had Wrought do drop that cloth, and you can farm drops there, since there are spots where the RT and Sentinels respawn indefinitely, but you can also get it from high level Venatori, like in the Hissing Wastes, at a very low drop rate.

 

But before Pride, I usually get one through Special Shipment rewards by running Trials enabled. You have to be level 13 or higher, though. According to the wiki.

That's really, really nice to know, thank you! I couldn't find anywhere that gave me information on where to get it outside of that. That makes everything much easier.

[Mike3207]

I know you use Dorian, but what other party members do you use with this build and how do you you build them?

[PapaCharlie9]

I know you use Dorian, but what other party members do you use with this build and how do you you build them?

 

My current Nightmare + Even Ground + Walk Softly + Grizzly End run is:

 

IQ: DF Archer Artificer

Cassandra (or Blackwall) 2H

Vivienne with a Spirit/Winter build

Dorian with the above build

 

Here's a video that shows you a lot of combat action for that party. Since I control the IQ, you won't see too much of Dorian, but you'll see bits here and there. When you see Fire Mines, Wall of Flame and Horror skulls, those are Dorian's. Also during the 2nd iteration of the corpse mobs on the stairs, you'll see Walking Bomb Virulent in action. All of the corpses have a glowing purple target skull on their chests, meaning they are infected, and they all explode at once. Glorious.

 

(Don't ask me why Dorian has an ice staff in this video -- I think I equipped the wrong staff on him)

 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

3) Not sure what you mean about mana management.

 

Necromancer spells are mana intensive and you appear to have listen Fade Step as optional.

[BigBrolly]

I just wanted to add that haste made no sense to me until I realized that it makes sense for Dorian since he helped develop time magic...so in inky is necro...maybe they discuss how wonderful time magic is lol


I had a Q....why wave of flame upgrade?

[PapaCharlie9]

Necromancer spells are mana intensive and you appear to have listen Fade Step as optional.

 

That's a good point. Fade Step / Energizing Step is a way to regain mana quickly. Personally, I haven't worried about it since Dorian is on AI most of the time anyway, but if running as an IQ and wanting to get the most out of WB, I agree, it probably ought to take the place of Immolate. Also acts as an evasion ability.

[PapaCharlie9]

I had a Q....why wave of flame upgrade?

 

Because it's awesome? Sets a whole mob on fire and generates panic? It's not the best CC in the world, but it sure is fun and pretty.

[BigBrolly]

Because it's awesome? Sets a whole mob on fire and generates panic? It's not the best CC in the world, but it sure is fun and pretty.

I like wall of fire, but didn't understand the rationale for this upgrade besides the other

[PapaCharlie9]

I like wall of fire, but didn't understand the rationale for this upgrade besides the other

Very roughly speaking, Wave of Flames can be used offensively, as an AoE attack, whereas Lasting Flames is mainly defensive and CC. With Lasting Flames, if you pick the wrong spot, your Wall is wasted (though that's true of Searing Glyph as well), whereas Wave of Flames is fire and forget. It's so wide and fast, it's hard to miss, even if the targets are running straight away from you.

In any case, it's a toggle, so you can switch back and forth at need.

[nightscrawl]

Just curious, what do you do with most of the dragons that are resistant to fire? Do you respec for dragon fights, or just use, say, a frost staff + energy barrage and walking bomb?

 

 

[edit]

Thanks for making this, btw. I play on casual so I suppose I have wonky mage builds -- I REALLY like energy barrage (it's so fun!!) so I normally get that asap. I'm determined to try something a bit more legitimate on my next play, whenever I get around to it.

Modificata da nightscrawl, 07 giugno 2016 - 02:13 .

[PapaCharlie9]

Just curious, what do you do with most of the dragons that are resistant to fire? Do you respec for dragon fights, or just use, say, a frost staff + energy barrage and walking bomb?

Swap the fire staff for an ice staff (I usually carry one of each element, just for this purpose), disable the fire-based abilities that don't do anything. If I have another ability that there is no room for, like Spirit Mark, swap that in. If I don't, switch the Necro over to support, like spamming Barrier, and have the other mage do the heavy lifting for damage. Finally, give the Necro the appropriate grenades to have for the target.

I do carry 4 Tactician's Amulets at all times, in case I want to try a respec during a tough battle, but I generally don't end up using them.

[ottffsse]

Just curious, what do you do with most of the dragons that are resistant to fire? Do you respec for dragon fights, or just use, say, a frost staff + energy barrage and walking bomb?
 
 
[edit]
Thanks for making this, btw. I play on casual so I suppose I have wonky mage builds -- I REALLY like energy barrage (it's so fun!!) so I normally get that asap. I'm determined to try something a bit more legitimate on my next play, whenever I get around to it.

yes use the highest damage crafted ice staff you can get (encore), lightning cage + energy barrage + swap belt from inferno to frost pact (if you have trespasser items) = dead dragon very quickly.
 

[Mike3207]

I think it might be better to do a respec a little earlier. I tried to take down a rift at level 6 and my party of Solas, Varric,Casandra and me got crushed multiple times at that rift near Redcliffe. I did a respec and put those puts into upgrades for Fire Mine and Immolate, along with Guardian Spirit/Barrier. I think that'll give me sufficient firepower to make it to the Haven raid, though I might look to split points from here on between Lightning/Spirit. It will make me a little weak for foes immune to fire, but that's the price I have to pay.