47 replies to this topic

[PapaCharlie9]

I think it might be better to do a respec a little earlier. I tried to take down a rift at level 6 and my party of Solas, Varric,Casandra and me got crushed multiple times at that rift near Redcliffe. I did a respec and put those puts into upgrades for Fire Mine and Immolate, along with Guardian Spirit/Barrier. I think that'll give me sufficient firepower to make it to the Haven raid, though I might look to split points from here on between Lightning/Spirit. It will make me a little weak for foes immune to fire, but that's the price I have to pay.

There is a trick to the rift at the gate of Redcliffe, if that is the one you mean (if you mean the one in the river near the Redcliffe Farm, forget about that one, you are way underlevelled at 6). For the Redcliffe rift, get into the yellow circles as quickly as you can. All the ranged attackers should get into yellow circles. Those are permanent haste spells and you'll buff your DPS.

I'm pretty sure yellow is haste and green is slow, but you might have to experiment.

I did that rift at about level 5 or 6 with Archer, Blackwall, Dorian and Viv and had no trouble on Nightmare + Trials. I didn't have any OP gear either, but I did use some Tier 2 mats here and there. I had Blackwall set to spam Horn of Valor/Fortifying Blast and Viv to spam Barrier. That makes a big difference.

[Mike3207]

Yes-it was the one at the Redcliffe Farms-will just stay away from that rift for the time being.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

If you see a red skull over your target, you are under leveled and, unless you have a team that is at least a bit overpowered, odds are, you won't survive it.

[ottffsse]

I think it might be better to do a respec a little earlier. I tried to take down a rift at level 6 and my party of Solas, Varric,Casandra and me got crushed multiple times at that rift near Redcliffe. I did a respec and put those puts into upgrades for Fire Mine and Immolate, along with Guardian Spirit/Barrier. I think that'll give me sufficient firepower to make it to the Haven raid, though I might look to split points from here on between Lightning/Spirit. It will make me a little weak for foes immune to fire, but that's the price I have to pay.

You can clear that rift with a party at lvl 5 ot so but it is a lvl8 rift so if you are very familiar with how to exploit the combat in this game just do it at around lvl8 in your first run. 

the trick to exploiting combat is using constant crowd control and the right cc on certain enemies to keep them in constant lock down and win tough fight underleveled/ or with fewer than 4 party members, while your damage dealers focus fire the tough target. that is why most "easy/ efficient"parties run not 1 but 2 mages like papacharlie does. that way you can panic, freeze, or paralyze any unit from early on, and still have barrier from the other mage just for a measure of safety, while your rogue unloads all the damage on the target. through a firewall or a horror at the despair demon/ freeze the greater horrors with a winters grasp or barrier expiration on mana surge etc. 

 

so coming back to this thread, if I have 1 mage only, running inferno, and am early to mid game playing on nm with trials I would almost always take wall of fire to fire mine just for the crowd control factor, later on I could drop it for fire mine if I take horror or the rift mage cc abilities though. firewall makes the haven mission much easier. 

[PapaCharlie9]

You can clear that rift with a party at lvl 5 ot so but it is a lvl8 rift so if you are very familiar with how to exploit the combat in this game just do it at around lvl8 in your first run. 
the trick to exploiting combat is using constant crowd control and the right cc on certain enemies to keep them in constant lock down and win tough fight underleveled/ or with fewer than 4 party members, while your damage dealers focus fire the tough target. that is why most "easy/ efficient"parties run not 1 but 2 mages like papacharlie does. that way you can panic, freeze, or paralyze any unit from early on, and still have barrier from the other mage just for a measure of safety, while your rogue unloads all the damage on the target. through a firewall or a horror at the despair demon/ freeze the greater horrors with a winters grasp or barrier expiration on mana surge etc.

Another benefit of two mages, or a mage and a templar, is two Dispels. The second wave of the Redcliffe Farm river rift has two Despair demons, that's what usually kills off low level parties. However, they always spawn in the same spots, so put down a Dispel on each and, voila, second wave is a cake walk.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

All well and good, and most of us do that and take that rift at level 4-5 easily but, for a new player that doesn't want to spend time watching videos of the fights and, doesn't know the resistances, mechanics and where what happens when or, how to beat it, or prevent the deadly things, that is a tough rift for low levels.

 

Sure now I solo it at level 5, team at 4 but, I have the Golden Nug for crafted gear and, I know the rift well.

[Mike3207]

When you mention two upgrades on a level-like Searing Glyph/Flaming Array on level 9, do you choose between one of those and get the other later on, or save up respec points for those upgrades. I'm on Level 7 and I've just picked up Searing Glyph, but wondering whether to get Flaming Array next time or go toward Dispel. I used a respec at level 4.

[PapaCharlie9]

When you mention two upgrades on a level-like Searing Glyph/Flaming Array on level 9, do you choose between one of those and get the other later on, or save up respec points for those upgrades. I'm on Level 7 and I've just picked up Searing Glyph, but wondering whether to get Flaming Array next time or go toward Dispel. I used a respec at level 4.

Maybe a bit of confusion? With Trespasser installed, the upgrades are toggles. You only pay once and get both. So for Fire Mine, if you bought Searing Glyph, you already have Flaming Array. It's your choice which one is active when you enter battle. Just go to your Character Record and click on the upgrade you want the character to use for that battle.

[Mike3207]

Does necromancer have to get very close to enemies, drop fire and ice mines, and then use Walking Bomb once they get on mines and explode them. That's what I took away from the offtsee video.

[PapaCharlie9]

Does necromancer have to get very close to enemies, drop fire and ice mines, and then use Walking Bomb once they get on mines and explode them. That's what I took away from the offtsee video.

Only for his "Supreme Damage Mechanic". That's not normal Necromancer tactics, it's super-optimized damage tactics.

And he's not using Walking Bomb, it's an FT Masterwork proc of Walking Bomb, that happens to inherit the upgrade from the Necro's ability tree. That's why there is no cooldown or mana cost.

Put another way, that is a very advanced tactic for a very advanced and highly optimized build/loadout.

[ottffsse]

Does necromancer have to get very close to enemies, drop fire and ice mines, and then use Walking Bomb once they get on mines and explode them. That's what I took away from the offtsee video.

Yeah what papacharlie said basically what happens is that say you cast a firemine flame array. Enemies step on it or you cast it directly into enemies at close range combat. It explodes and deals x damage (fire). Now since you have a walking bomb masterwork effect on you armor or staff it has a 10% chance to apply walking bomb to the hit enemy at 100% +-10% of x damage to the enemy as a walking bomb dot (if you have the 100% masterwork on you armor or weapon) . It's also virulent on necromancer if you have that upgrade toggled. The dot is consistent and affects the enemy hit at 1 damage tic per 2 seconds. Now you can manually also detonate the walking bomb like you can normally do on the necromancer. At any time. Once you "detonate" t walking bomb it applies as a SECOND hit. And a "hit" has a chance to crit again. That means if your critdmage and chance is really high you profit. Like if you critical chance is close to 50% and critical damage is say extra 70% that extra 70%,applies both to the firemine hit and then again to the walking bomb detonation hit again. That is how I got a walking bomb hit at 40k + in one of the videos. And since you are a necromancer the walking bomb is virulent even if comes from a masterwork chance and not only the actual normal cast of the ability when that upgrade on wb is toggled in the ability menu. Meaning if you kill a enemy with a say 20k walking bomb explosion tha 20k "infects" nearby enemies too like a virulent walking bomb would. So very great damage potential on aoe.

[Brother Juniper]

Does the pyromancer ability also increase damage from basic attacks with a fire-damage staff?

[PapaCharlie9]

Does the pyromancer ability also increase damage from basic attacks with a fire-damage statt?

I believe so. I believe auto-attack with a fire staff will create the Burning status, just as AA with an ice staff creates Chilled and AA with an electric staff creates Shocked.

Seems to be confirmed by the Combat Mechanics guide:
 

• attack_6, attack_7, attack_8: Arcing projectiles. Applies either Burning (3 ticks over 4 seconds, 100% weapon damage per tick), Chilled (4 seconds), or Shocked (3 seconds) depending on staff element type.

[Brother Juniper]

With two mages, is there a way to prevent both mages casting Barrier on the same party member at the beginning of each fight without turning it off completely on one mage? I have barrier preferred on Vivienne and Chilling Array preferred on Solas, but Solas and Vivienne both cast Barrier on my DW Rogue at the same time as he is most always the first to join the enemy.

[ottffsse]

With two mages, is there a way to prevent both mages casting Barrier on the same party member at the beginning of each fight without turning it off completely on one mage? I have barrier preferred on Vivienne and Chilling Array preferred on Solas, but Solas and Vivienne both cast Barrier on my DW Rogue at the same time as he is most always the first to join the enemy.

You're not running Dorian.

But on a serious note set Vivian to follow your rogue if the rogue is up front with Vivian in melee and Solas to follow someone in the back rank or himself. You get the idea set the ai on the two mages separately so they target different things in first order. If Solas ai is to follow self for example he will cast barrier on himself first.

[Brother Juniper]

You're not running Dorian.

Only because I haven't got that far in this game yet.

 

Solas and Vivienne are both set to follow themselves and they always cast Barrier on whoever is charging the enemy.

[ottffsse]

Only because I haven't got that far in this game yet.
 
Solas and Vivienne are both set to follow themselves and they always cast Barrier on whoever is charging the enemy.

Idk then honestly. You can try for Solas to follow quizzy and Viv to follow tank mix it up but I had the same problem well not really as I was always controlling my quizzy who was second mage, but I can imagine this is another ai problem. Set a bunch of abilities on Solas to preferred but not barrier.

Dorian technically does not need barrier btw if he has heal on hit masterwork he we self revive in a lot of cases.

[PapaCharlie9]

Only because I haven't got that far in this game yet.

 

Solas and Vivienne are both set to follow themselves and they always cast Barrier on whoever is charging the enemy.

 

I haven't been able to figure out an automatic solution to this myself. I tried setting one to Preferred and the other to Enabled, but they still simulcast.

 

Micromanagement is how I deal with this, but only for the very first ability usage. Just as the party draws weapons, go into Tactical and give one of the mages something else to do. That offsets their mana regen, so that barrier casting gets staggered from that point on.

[Bigdawg13]

It isn't a big deal initially because the mana regen is almost instant until they start really fighting. Give one of them the -4s upgrade on barrier and they should begin casting out of sequence.

[Brother Juniper]

ottffsse, PapaCharlie9, Bigdawg13:

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Always amazes me how much good information and fellowship there is to be found here.

[Fessels]

The main difference is that you can't use the second/toggled upgrade for abilities. So just use the first upgrade for an ability when an upgrade is specified. For example, instead of the Concentrated Detonation upgrade for Walking Bomb, use Virulent. Since you can't get Chilling Array, don't use the Winter option of the Full Build, use the Static Cage option.

 

I would not recommend Wall of Flame without the second upgrade, so use the extra points for something else, like towards Spirit Mark or Static Cage.

 

You will not be able to do the ottffsse's Supreme Damage Mechanic.

 

It will still be a strong build, no worries there.

 

So if I want to use this build with Dorian without any of the DLC, this would be a better result? ( Without Wall of FIre. )

 

Spoiler

FULL BUILD

 

1. Barrier

2. Elegant Defense upgrade to Barrier

3. Peaceful Aura

4. Dispel

5. Transmute Magic upgrade to Dispel

6. Horror

7. Despair/Terror upgrade to Horror

8. Death Siphon

9. Power of the Dead

10. Blinding Terror

11. Simulacrum

12. Walking Bomb

13. Virulent upgrade to Walking Bomb

14. Immolate

15. Wildfire upgrade to Immolate

16. Flashpoint

17. Pyromancer

18. Fire Mine

19. Searing Glyph upgrade to Fire Mine

20. Cleanburn

21. Static cage

22. Lightning cage upgrade to Static cage

23. Energy Barrage

24. Energy Bombardment upgrade to Energy Barrage

 

Actives:

 

1/ Barrier

2/ Immolate/Wildfire

3/ Fire Mine/Searing Glyph

4/ Static cage/Lightning cage

5/ Walking Bomb/Virulent

6/ Energy Barrage

7/ Dispel

8/ Mark of the Rift (for Inquisitor)

 

otherwise

 

8/ Horror

 

Also about needing 24 points ... I seem to remember having read some where that the Soft cap in DAI is level 25? But ... is that indeed the case, and if so is it reachable for me to get Dorian to a high enough level to get the 24 points without any DLC? 

 

EDIT: Just thought about what I posted in the spoiler, I placed Static cage/Lightning cage before Energy Barrage/Energy Bombardment. But I need Energy Barrage first, not to mention Conductive current and Static Charge. So what I posted in the spoiler is incorrect?

[PapaCharlie9]

So if I want to use this build with Dorian without any of the DLC, this would be a better result? ( Without Wall of FIre. )
 

Spoiler

FULL BUILD
 
1. Barrier
2. Elegant Defense upgrade to Barrier
3. Peaceful Aura
4. Dispel
5. Transmute Magic upgrade to Dispel
6. Horror
7. Despair/Terror upgrade to Horror
8. Death Siphon
9. Power of the Dead
10. Blinding Terror
11. Simulacrum
12. Walking Bomb
13. Virulent upgrade to Walking Bomb
14. Immolate
15. Wildfire upgrade to Immolate
16. Flashpoint
17. Pyromancer
18. Fire Mine
19. Searing Glyph upgrade to Fire Mine
20. Cleanburn
21. Static cage
22. Lightning cage upgrade to Static cage
23. Energy Barrage
24. Energy Bombardment upgrade to Energy Barrage
 
Actives:
 
1/ Barrier
2/ Immolate/Wildfire
3/ Fire Mine/Searing Glyph
4/ Static cage/Lightning cage
5/ Walking Bomb/Virulent
6/ Energy Barrage
7/ Dispel
8/ Mark of the Rift (for Inquisitor)
 
otherwise
 
8/ Horror

 
Also about needing 24 points ... I seem to remember having read some where that the Soft cap in DAI is level 25? But ... is that indeed the case, and if so is it reachable for me to get Dorian to a high enough level to get the 24 points without any DLC? 
 
EDIT: Just thought about what I posted in the spoiler, I placed Static cage/Lightning cage before Energy Barrage/Energy Bombardment. But I need Energy Barrage first, not to mention Conductive current and Static Charge. So what I posted in the spoiler is incorrect?

You caught one error -- yes, Energy Barrage has to be bought first. The other is minor, Horror only has the Despair upgrade.

The level cap is a hard 27. The maximum number of ability points, however, is 31, unless you are human, in which case it is 32. This is because of Amulets of Power that you get for various quests and War Table rewards. Also, you start with 2 points, 3 if human.

[Fessels]

You caught one error -- yes, Energy Barrage has to be bought first. The other is minor, Horror only has the Despair upgrade.

The level cap is a hard 27. The maximum number of ability points, however, is 31, unless you are human, in which case it is 32. This is because of Amulets of Power that you get for various quests and War Table rewards. Also, you start with 2 points, 3 if human.

 

That is all good to know PapaCharlie9, thank you. Guess Dorian is going to get rebuild this evening.