82 réponses à ce sujet

[Heimdall]

I'll just calmly and succinctly put forth my thoughts:

Burn them all

[Panda]

I guess the question is that can Qun evolve in a way that would make it plausible to other nations of Thedas and also morally. Religions IRL have evolved in such ways so maybe with different, more modern and humane interpretation, of Qun might help with that. In other hand Chantry would also need to at least tolerate Qun's teachings.

 

Though I guess it's option to take over Qunari entirely and demolish Qun completely and approach changing qunari from that viewpoint, but qunaris might not appreciate modernization like it.

[Nixou]

I'll just calmly and succinctly put forth my thoughts:

Burn them all

 

 

Things didn't end well to the guy who inspired that line:

[German Soldier]

I believe that after Solas, the Darkspawn, Dragons and Demons, Qunari are the greatest threat to Thedas. We must eradicate the Qun from existence before it eradicates us.

I think it's more likely Theodosians will eradicate themselves first with their own hands every ten years they have a world ending scenario upon their heads.

 

[Lulupab]

I believe that after Solas, the Darkspawn, Dragons and Demons, Qunari are the greatest threat to Thedas. We must eradicate the Qun from existence before it eradicates us.

 

They are different kinds of threat though. The darkspawn are literally a threat against Thedas because they will make everything wither and die. While Solas and Qunari are only a threat to mostly humans and their culture. I doubt any of them will care what Dwarves are doing underground for example, or they won't bother anyone after their conquest is finished. Kinda like how people don't go out and deliberately search for the Dalish. 

 

The best Scenario is an all out war between Solas and Qunari.

[Steelcan]

Why wouldn't the Qunari take their war to the Dwarves?

[Lulupab]

Why wouldn't the Qunari take their war to the Dwarves?

 

Well, why would they? Literally all conquers of Thedas have ignored them thus far. Thinking about it you will need to being siege equipment underground, go through filth and danger, to what? Attack people who would never challenge your rule on the surface? Though Dwarves will turn trading with Qunari instead of humans as soon as they see they are winning. Because they simply don't care who rules up there or what happens to them.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Why wouldn't the Qunari take their war to the Dwarves?

Lyrium

 

Tresspacer show us Tamasran plan for a veil

[sentinel_87]

Of all the dark things in the DA series the Qun is one of the most abhorrent to me.

 

Could you change it to be something more palatable over time or with force?  Possibly.  The question then becomes is it really still the Qun then or something new that goes by the same name. 

 

If I recall correctly the entire system was set up because one Qunair did not like the problems with the system he lived in.  So he created a system that completely turned the old one on it's head.  If they're going to have a shot at seriously integrating with the rest of Thedas the only recourse in my opinion is to obliterate the Qun.  It just doesn't operate on the same level as everyone else does.  It's like trying to integrate North Korea into the rest of the world.  North Korea operates in it's own world.

 

I'd love to completely wreck the Qun in a future DA game, they're the DA version of the geth to me, but seriously doubt Bioware will grant that much power in the DA universe to the player.  That would be far too divergent for future titles in the series.  I also don't currently see how the rest of Thedas could undertake such an operation.  Unless the Qunari (re)start the war I see the status quo "cold war" continuing.

 

tldr: the Qun is too radical to moderate.

[Xilizhra]

A question unanswerable, since the qunari probably have some secret magical shenanigans going on in their society (involving dragon blood) that will change everything we know about them; after all, it's happened with elves and dwarves alike. I personally suspect that the Qun will fall in the next game.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I think the problem is, like my partner, too many see Qunari society as non christian and communist, as in cold war, bad communists that want to make everyone live like they do.

 

Well every single group there is thinks thy are right, their ways are best for society, everyone should be like them because they are better. Truth is each is different, each has good and bad points, each has benefits and negatives for the people living under those rules.

 

The Qun is not racist, anyone can become Qunari and, yes, are pretty much forced to it if their country falls to the Qunari but, every nation would do the same in Thedas or here. Even those that preach freedom of this or that really don't practice it when they take over another country. Did the USA say "In God and Great Spirit We Trust?" No, of course not, they tried to covert the natives. OS why is it so terrible that the Qunari would do exactly the same thing? Is them trying to gain converts any worse that the christian revivals, door to door "missionaries, people on street corners and in public bathrooms leaving or passing out conversion pamphlets?

 

I don't think so. Different, foreign to your and my mind does not make it bad or evil.

[Xilizhra]

I think the problem is, like my partner, too many see Qunari society as non christian and communist, as in cold war, bad communists that want to make everyone live like they do.

 

Well every single group there is thinks thy are right, their ways are best for society, everyone should be like them because they are better. Truth is each is different, each has good and bad points, each has benefits and negatives for the people living under those rules.

 

The Qun is not racist, anyone can become Qunari and, yes, are pretty much forced to it if their country falls to the Qunari but, every nation would do the same in Thedas or here. Even those that preach freedom of this or that really don't practice it when they take over another country. Did the USA say "In God and Great Spirit We Trust?" No, of course not, they tried to covert the natives. OS why is it so terrible that the Qunari would do exactly the same thing? Is them trying to gain converts any worse that the christian revivals, door to door "missionaries, people on street corners and in public bathrooms leaving or passing out conversion pamphlets?

 

I don't think so. Different, foreign to your and my mind does not make it bad or evil.

I'll find that "not racist" part more believable when we see a viddathari in a role more prestigious than "spy" or "meat shield." Additionally, the evils of other nations don't make the Qun less evil, and conversion always becomes much worse when backed up with force of arms.

Also, there's the enslavement and mutilation of mages, of course.

[Lord of War]

I think the problem is, like my partner, too many see Qunari society as non christian and communist, as in cold war, bad communists that want to make everyone live like they do.

 

Well every single group there is thinks thy are right, their ways are best for society, everyone should be like them because they are better. Truth is each is different, each has good and bad points, each has benefits and negatives for the people living under those rules.

 

The Qun is not racist, anyone can become Qunari and, yes, are pretty much forced to it if their country falls to the Qunari but, every nation would do the same in Thedas or here. Even those that preach freedom of this or that really don't practice it when they take over another country. Did the USA say "In God and Great Spirit We Trust?" No, of course not, they tried to covert the natives. OS why is it so terrible that the Qunari would do exactly the same thing? Is them trying to gain converts any worse that the christian revivals, door to door "missionaries, people on street corners and in public bathrooms leaving or passing out conversion pamphlets?

 

I don't think so. Different, foreign to your and my mind does not make it bad or evil.

 

I don't know, I feel like I'd take door-to-door missionaries over brutal invasions (and the intentional destabilization of my society by spies and assassins) any day.

[Qun00]

I wouldn't say it is impossible to be happy under the Qun.

Just because someone else picked your job for you it doesn't mean it must be one you won't enjoy. And there are plenty of appealing virtues to their philosophy:

Order, discipline, honesty (being forthright earns the Arishok's respect), loyalty not just to the Qun but each other (the Qunari even avenged the death of the Viscount's son) and opposing any kind of selfishness.

[raging_monkey]

That is why I love the ox there's a sense of cummunity

[Daerog]

I think everyone in Thedas is non christian, so viewing Qunari as non christian is obvious.

Andrastianism is not Christian, the theology is too different to accurately compare. Structure and organization, sure.

I would say the Qunari are closer to the Tau from WH40K. They've been compared to the Borg, but I don't think that's accurate, other than the attitude of "join us, it's better, death is the alternative." They plan to convert all... eventually, there is no hard deadline, but they may not wait for individuals to join when they are able to convert a nation. Sending missionaries doesn't seem to be their thing. Spies, agents, and military go in first.

[veeia]

I wouldn't say it is impossible to be happy under the Qun.

Just because someone else picked your job for you it doesn't mean it must be one you won't enjoy. And there are plenty of appealing virtues to their philosophy:

Order, discipline, honesty (being forthright earns the Arishok's respect), loyalty not just to the Qun but each other (the Qunari even avenged the death of the Viscount's son) and opposing any kind of selfishness.

 

I generally agree. Both societies are oppressive in different ways. Both societies have different strengths as well. And its entirely possible for Qunari culture to currently be unacceptably oppressive without saying it is inherently that way. Their extreme positions are justified by a certain interpretation of the Qun, but you can look at any major world religion and see how its interpretations have changed over time to suit the politics/culture of time. That's why I think any solution to the international problem should favor diplomacy over force (not instead of, just over, some is probably inevitable given the many conflicts that are occuring) because it's more conducive for the Qunari society to evolve naturally to fit in with the world. It's possible further developments in the series will lead me to conclude that's not possible, but right now, I'd like to think it is. Otherwise it's not as interesting, because then the story is just 'Andrastrian nations conquering an irredeemably bad nation and fixing it".  It takes some of the teeth out of it, imo.

[Daerog]

I wouldn't say it is impossible to be happy under the Qun.
Just because someone else picked your job for you it doesn't mean it must be one you won't enjoy. And there are plenty of appealing virtues to their philosophy:
Order, discipline, honesty (being forthright earns the Arishok's respect), loyalty not just to the Qun but each other (the Qunari even avenged the death of the Viscount's son) and opposing any kind of selfishness.

Certainly. I think there are many that would be fine under the Qun. Especially if you have no ambition or desire to rebel for the sake of rebelling. Plenty are fine being told how to think and are fine with others being punished for opposing a popular thought.

It's very stagnant (except in technology and science), but many find consistency comforting. There are no worries, everyone is taken care of... maybe, no evidence to support that, yet.

There are those who will love this, but there are those who'd rather claw out their eyes. Being born into such a world and unexposed to other systems will make one a supporter by default, because it is just how things are.

[GoldenGail3]

You can't fix the Qun.... 

[Daerog]

You can't compromise or negotiate with everything. Especially totalitarian philosophies that are religiously viewed as Truth. To edit the Qun is to end the Qunari.

[raging_monkey]

Why change anything in the series? Its set for a reason? Curious to fan requests in this forum

[Nixou]

I think the problem is, like my partner, too many see Qunari society as non christian and communist, as in cold war, bad communists that want to make everyone live like they do.

 

 

And what most don't seem to realize is: The Qun is a secular, tech-savvy society which shows excessive reverence to its founding father and regard their religious neighbors as backwater, superstitious barbarians ruled by parasitic lords. So which real-world's current civilization is the closest to the Qunari's?

 

People may claim to prefer "door-to-door missionaries over the intentional destabilization of society by spies and assassins", but they probably didn't mind much when this happened

[Daerog]

Real world civilization? One that dictates the truth on religion, governance, morality, warfare, economics, social structure, sex... pretty much completely totalitarian? I have no idea, closest I can think of is fiction since I'm not a history buff. Tau from WH40K is the closest, as they request you to convert, then conquer you for the Greater Good, initially saying you can keep your faith, then systematically assimilate the culture into the Greater Good, removing all that isn't compatible.

[Daerog]

Why change anything in the series? Its set for a reason? Curious to fan requests in this forum

Eh, things are always changing. The Circle, Grey Wardens, gryphons, the elves, Chantry teachings on the Maker (from Origins to Inquisition), and so on.

[Totally Not a Poodle]

The Qunari have it right. It's the rest of Thedas that needs to adapt.