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[frogkisser]

So I've had a few playthroughs back to back, and I'm starting to notice certain dialogue options that either are or are not there, and they are not tied to race, class, or the perk-specific dialogues.

 

The most recent example I have is in Here Lies the Abyss, when Hawke and the Warden (Alistair in my case) are arguing, for the 2nd or 3rd time. There's a point where the Divine turns into the spirit form, they start to argue, and the companions chime in on what to do with the Wardens.

 

Usually I've always had 4 options here - siding with Alistair, siding with Hawke, diplomatic "Let's talk when we get out of here" and finally "Oh for maker's sake can you shut up?".

 

This time around, this last one, the aggressive option (I guess?) was entirely missing, and I've no idea why. Again, it's not specific to any race/class/perk or anything.

 

Another instance I can think of, which some people also talked about here happens in the Crossroads with Morrigan. Sometimes the Inquisitor has a star option to mention that the Crossroads are old and decaying. This is yet again not tied to any class, race or anything (people on the thread who commented that they got the dialogue all had different circumstances). No one can figure out what causes it.

 

I'm sure there's other examples that I can't think of now, but with two already I'm sure it's more than a random occurrence, and that there must be other factors that affect dialogue options, other than the usual class (and specialization), race, or perk dialogues.

One thing that crossed my mind is maybe the faithfulness of the Inquisitor affects these, but given the context, it doesn't make much sense as to why it would.

 

It does however suggest that there could be another such factor that we can't really keep track of that affect dialogue - like maybe there's a personality system like in DA2 that's just less obvious? Maybe there's more options than just diplomatic/sarcastic/aggressive dialogues at play? It does seem like a pretty sophisticated system.

 

Would love to hear anyone's thoughts or other examples.

 

[Dano82nd]

Some response options are dependent on if you have the proper Inquisition perk(s). That could be the answe.

[MisterJB]

I miss having dialogue options be dependant on your allocation of points.

 

My Cousland Warrior always had more than 30 in Cunning at Ostagar because I wanted to sound intelligent.
Plus, if you had enough Contitution, you could drink Oghren's brew without fainting.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

So I've had a few playthroughs back to back, and I'm starting to notice certain dialogue options that either are or are not there, and they are not tied to race, class, or the perk-specific dialogues.

 

The most recent example I have is in Here Lies the Abyss, when Hawke and the Warden (Alistair in my case) are arguing, for the 2nd or 3rd time. There's a point where the Divine turns into the spirit form, they start to argue, and the companions chime in on what to do with the Wardens.

 

Usually I've always had 4 options here - siding with Alistair, siding with Hawke, diplomatic "Let's talk when we get out of here" and finally "Oh for maker's sake can you shut up?".

 

This time around, this last one, the aggressive option (I guess?) was entirely missing, and I've no idea why. Again, it's not specific to any race/class/perk or anything.

Huh, I don't think I've ever gotten that last option, although I may not remember. Here's a shot of not getting it:

 

There is clearly room for another option... It would be really bizarre if it was tied to an invisible personality system à la DA2, because it's not auto-dialogue. It's also just plain odd in general since it seems like a fairly standard RP option to have access to. I'm stumped, and I'm stumped about the Crossroads one too

 

I wonder how many more there are that I haven't even noticed!

[Krypplingz]

The "Oh for makers sake" might be tied to your Inquisitors faithfulness. As you pointed out and I could see the reason why being because some got their pantaloons twisted over Diplomatic (?) Hawkes Maker/Andraste connected battle cries. So now they tried to put most yammering about the Maker behind a faithful flag. 

 

At least I got the "For maker sake" line on my Chant spouting dwarf.

There are several other faith related dialog options, like telling Cory "The maker is with me", sending Florianne to a cloister,  and the special judgement for Ser Ruth. 

[BansheeOwnage]

The "Oh for makers sake" might be tied to your Inquisitors faithfulness. As you pointed out and I could see the reason why being because some got their pantaloons twisted over Diplomatic (?) Hawkes Maker/Andraste connected battle cries. So now they tried to put most yammering about the Maker behind a faithful flag. 

 

At least I got the "For maker sake" line on my Chant spouting dwarf.

There are several other faith related dialog options, like telling Cory "The maker is with me", sending Florianne to a cloister,  and the special judgement for Ser Ruth. 

I was never a fan of gating options behind faithfulness in most cases, so if this is also because of that, I'll add it to the list. There should always be an RP option of expressing exasperation/annoyance there, and lots of people use phrases like "Oh my god" in real life without being religious, myself included, and they do the same in Dragon Age.

 

Likewise, I'm bitter about being left out of judgement options (that give you nice gear ) because of that, since I'm sure you could arrange to send Florianne to a cloister without being Andrastian. It also doesn't help that it isn't balanced out by giving options to non-faithful Inquisitors, since the only option in the entire game that I remember is the one at the end where you can tell Corypheus you don't believe in gods. No special judgements or anything.

 

Anyway, sorry if it seemed like I was ranting at you, I was trying to rant at the game And even if that's the trigger, I don't think it could apply to the Crossroads one.

[Krypplingz]

I was never a fan of gating options behind faithfulness in most cases, but if this is also because of that, I'll add it to the list. There should always be an RP option of expressing exasperation/annoyance there, and lots of people use phrases like "Oh my god" in real life without being religious, myself included, and they do the same in Dragon Age.

 

Likewise, I'm bitter about being left out of judgement options (that give you nice gear ) because of that, since I'm sure you could arrange to send Florianne to a cloister without being Andrastian. It also doesn't help that it isn't balanced out by giving options to non-faithful Inquisitors, since the only option in the entire game that I remember is the one at the end where you can tell Corypheus you don't believe in gods. No special judgements or anything.

 

Anyway, sorry if it seemed like I was ranting at you, I was trying to rant at the game And even if that's the trigger, I don't think it could apply to the Crossroads one.

Well to be fair, sending Florianne to a cloister is a bit silly, since there isn't really anything stopping her from murdering the sisters, burning down the Chantry and making a run for it. I was actually surprised you didn't get a war table quest in that vein. Same with the farm you can send her to. 

And "Andraste forgives you" probably has more impact from someone who claims to be on speaking terms with her, rather than an Inquisitor who denounces all connection to either her or the Maker. 

 

I actually kind of like this detail, since I feel like the game is paying some attention to how your character is behaving. I would also support everyone getting the action, but only the faithful succeeding in the latter. (All should fail in the first)

In any case, I'd rather they would polish and expand on the idea rather than throwing it away. Maybe giving the unfaithful or neutral opportunities or benefits that the super faithful wouldn't get. Especially since the main character in the next game might not be as dependent on the faithful for their powers and influence. 

 

But I do agree that the schematic should been available to everyone, since it's a nice, neutral armor. It might be justified if it was Sebastian's codpiece of Andraste or an "I love the Maker" T-shirt.

And "for Makers sake" or "Andraste preserve me" should be available to everyone, although I would like to keep it optional, for those extra unfaithful characters or elves/dwarves who fiercely believe in the Creators/Stone. 

[frogkisser]

 

 

 

Well to be fair, sending Florianne to a cloister is a bit silly, since there isn't really anything stopping her from murdering the sisters, burning down the Chantry and making a run for it. I was actually surprised you didn't get a war table quest in that vein. Same with the farm you can send her to. 

And "Andraste forgives you" probably has more impact from someone who claims to be on speaking terms with her, rather than an Inquisitor who denounces all connection to either her or the Maker. 

 

I actually kind of like this detail, since I feel like the game is paying some attention to how your character is behaving. I would also support everyone getting the action, but only the faithful succeeding in the latter. (All should fail in the first)

In any case, I'd rather they would polish and expand on the idea rather than throwing it away. Maybe giving the unfaithful or neutral opportunities or benefits that the super faithful wouldn't get. Especially since the main character in the next game might not be as dependent on the faithful for their powers and influence. 

 

But I do agree that the schematic should been available to everyone, since it's a nice, neutral armor. It might be justified if it was Sebastian's codpiece of Andraste or an "I love the Maker" T-shirt.

And "for Makers sake" or "Andraste preserve me" should be available to everyone, although I would like to keep it optional, for those extra unfaithful characters or elves/dwarves who fiercely believe in the Creators/Stone. 

 

 

Yeah, here's the thing - I *always* got that dialogue option with some of my least faithful characters (Dalish who rejected being the Herald at any possible moment) and they still got it. This time around when I noticed it was missing, the character is actually faithful, but chose the 'fanatical belief is to blame' convo with Giselle. 

 

 

 

Huh, I don't think I've ever gotten that last option, although I may not remember. Here's a shot of not getting it:

 

There is clearly room for another option... It would be really bizarre if it was tied to an invisible personality system à la DA2, because it's not auto-dialogue. It's also just plain odd in general since it seems like a fairly standard RP option to have access to. I'm stumped, and I'm stumped about the Crossroads one too

 

I wonder how many more there are that I haven't even noticed!

 

 

 

Exactly this point. This is the scene I got this time around, for the first time ever.  I can see how it could be tied to faithfulness but if it is, I'm frankly a bit annoyed that certain options are hidden from me. Why on earth would a faithful / unfaithful Inquisitor not be able to choose the snarkier / more aggressive option at this point? Boggles the mind.

[frogkisser]

So I just did some of the judgements to check my Inky's faithfulness, and it seems she's faithful (she got the Andraste forgives you option with Ser Ruth, for example.)

 

So that seems to suggest that the aggressive option "Sweet Maker would both of you please shut up" is available to non-faithful Inquisitors? Sort of like a faithful Inquisitor wouldn't want to use the Maker's name in vain or something? 

 

IDK, but if that's true, I really would have liked it if this wasn't a hidden kind of meter but rather a more visible one. I know you can tell by how Giselle responds or through options like the judgements but it seems to affect unexpected areas of dialogue. 

[Gervaise]

There is also the fact that you can only make mages tranquil if you are a mage, which seems a bit odd considering it was always the Templars who made mages tranquil, even if technically they had to get the authority of the First Enchanter to do so.       Then again you aren't actually doing it, just authorising it.     The Divine was the final arbiter on whether Pharamond was made Tranquil and she wasn't a mage, so why wouldn't Andraste's Herald have the same authority?    Not that I've ever actually made anyone Tranquil, since as a mage I find the idea even more horrifying than as a non-mage.     It just seems weird that it is class specific.

 

I also got the option this time round to recruit that Harmond guy to working for the Inquisition while actually getting Sera's approval to do so by having the nobility perk.   Clearly I'd not had this previously at the point I did this quest, so I decided to take the option just to see what happened and was totally surprised at the result.

 

I found it quite amusing that the one time I decided to go with an Inquisitor who accepted their role of Herald, I got all these extra options to forgive people in her name, because in fact they didn't actually believe, they only said it because it seemed a good move to do so.    He found it great to be able to face down Corypheus by claiming to be the Maker's Chosen but he's still waiting the thunderbolt from the Maker to punish him for claiming something he doesn't truly believe.   

[DarkAmaranth1966]

There is also the fact that you can only make mages tranquil if you are a mage, which seems a bit odd considering it was always the Templars who made mages tranquil, even if technically they had to get the authority of the First Enchanter to do so.       Then again you aren't actually doing it, just authorising it.     The Divine was the final arbiter on whether Pharamond was made Tranquil and she wasn't a mage, so why wouldn't Andraste's Herald have the same authority?    Not that I've ever actually made anyone Tranquil, since as a mage I find the idea even more horrifying than as a non-mage.     It just seems weird that it is class specific.

 

I also got the option this time round to recruit that Harmond guy to working for the Inquisition while actually getting Sera's approval to do so by having the nobility perk.   Clearly I'd not had this previously at the point I did this quest, so I decided to take the option just to see what happened and was totally surprised at the result.

 

I found it quite amusing that the one time I decided to go with an Inquisitor who accepted their role of Herald, I got all these extra options to forgive people in her name, because in fact they didn't actually believe, they only said it because it seemed a good move to do so.    He found it great to be able to face down Corypheus by claiming to be the Maker's Chosen but he's still waiting the thunderbolt from the Maker to punish him for claiming something he doesn't truly believe.   

He sounds like my Adaar, he claims divinity all the time but,  to him the "Maker" is some Kossith or Tevinter mage that mixed up his ancestor's blood more ages ago than he cares to think about with something that wasn't supposed to be a part of his race at all. (He's already met Keiran) So this "Maker" isn't going to do didly unless he happens to be immortal and, if so, he hasn't shown himself so, Adaar isn't worried.

[Krypplingz]

Yeah, here's the thing - I *always* got that dialogue option with some of my least faithful characters (Dalish who rejected being the Herald at any possible moment) and they still got it. This time around when I noticed it was missing, the character is actually faithful, but chose the 'fanatical belief is to blame' convo with Giselle. 

Rechecked my saves/screenshots. I'm not even sure if the dwarf got the Maker line, but I know for a fact that my faithful Cadogan got it. Same with neutral Saerin, unfaithful Ramone and whatever Chayim was. So you are probably correct in your first post that it's not connected to faith, but something else. 

Sorry about that. 

[frogkisser]

Rechecked my saves/screenshots. I'm not even sure if the dwarf got the Maker line, but I know for a fact that my faithful Cadogan got it. Same with neutral Saerin, unfaithful Ramone and whatever Chayim was. So you are probably correct in your first post that it's not connected to faith, but something else. 

Sorry about that. 

 

This is annoying me so much I'm tempted to go back and test the scene again with different characters =D I don't know why it annoys me so much, but I feel a bit shoehorned into a character that's too nice, even though I didn't mind making her faithful... And I've this strange obsession with roleplaying 'properly', such that I'll reload from way long ago just in order to change some dialogue that had no consequences but still didn't fit my character. 

 

So.....Perks from the war table are ruled out from the beginning, as is class and race. So is faithfulness, probably. So if it's not the last one, I've *no* idea what other hidden parameters there could be that affect this. 

[frogkisser]

Ah, I can now confirm one thing.

 

The conversation in the Crossroads with Morrigan, about the Crossroads 'decaying' or some such, is available for a Rift Mage. 

 

I've put off specializing until that point, and specifically got all specilizations just to try it. Tried it without a specialization, then with a knight enchanter, necromancer, and finally rift mage. Only the last one showed the convo. 

 

Will try testing the Fade conversation with different faith parameters next. 

[veeia]

I had no idea there were dialogue options like this, how fascinating. I'm working on some PTs now and have a few characters that probably have saves close enough to those areas to get to that dialogue without too much effort. When I get some free time, I'll report back anything I learn! It's too bad this wasn't discussed earlier when there were more active posters so that more data could be collected, but figuring it out should be fun.

 

I feel like I got both those options with my nonfaithful dwarf, but maybe I'm conflating PTs. I'll start with her tonight and see if that's true.

[frogkisser]

I had no idea there were dialogue options like this, how fascinating. I'm working on some PTs now and have a few characters that probably have saves close enough to those areas to get to that dialogue without too much effort. When I get some free time, I'll report back anything I learn! It's too bad this wasn't discussed earlier when there were more active posters so that more data could be collected, but figuring it out should be fun.

 

I feel like I got both those options with my nonfaithful dwarf, but maybe I'm conflating PTs. I'll start with her tonight and see if that's true.

 

 

True! I was surprised and not just a little vexed that when I googled this earlier, there was nothing written about it whatsoever except that one post that I had linked (about the Crossroads) and nothing at all about the line in the Fade.

 

Thing is, I'm reasonably certain there's more instances like this in the game, where we think the dialogue is plain normal, and it's actually related to something....

[Gilli]

Thing is, I'm reasonably certain there's more instances like this in the game, where we think the dialogue is plain normal, and it's actually related to something....

 

There's a scene in Trespasser where you need to be a Vashot mage, to get a dialogue option for your Inquisitor to say:

Spoiler

"I am a Saarebas."

[frogkisser]

There's a scene in Trespasser where you need to be a Vashot mage, to get a dialogue option for your Inquisitor to say:

Spoiler

"I am a Saarebas."

 

Now that's cool. Does the option have a specific dialogue icon (like mage or qunari?) or just a star?

[Gilli]

Now that's cool. Does the option has a specific dialogue icon (like mage or qunari?) or just a star?

 

Right? I want to play as Vashot mage again, just for that dialogue.

 

It has the Qunari icon

[veeia]

Okay, an update on my findings.

 

I can rule out that the character needs to be flagged as faithful to get that extra dialogue option between the warden and Hawke, because I reran it with my first Inquisitor, who was not Andrastrian (dwarf rogue) and I got it, while the run I did yesterday was also with a dwarf rogue not flagged as faithful and he did not get it. I also don't think it's related to any choices made in the Fade, because I made sure to choose the exact same dialogue options. The only thing different is that I didn't do all the little sidequests and just ran to the conversation, haha.

 

So my guess is it's something that happens before the Fade. I don't have any other characters with saves where it's easy to get them to that part of the game quickly, unfortunately.  It could still be related to a faith conversation, because while my dwarf who didn't get it wasn't Andrastrian at all and made it clear at every turn, while the one who did it get it was more in a state of confusion/apathy. So she didnt' choose "Yes, the Maker and I'm the Herald!!" responses, but neither did she take the flat out denials. But there's obviously a lot of other differences between them, so it could have been any other factor too. And there's always the possibility it's bugged, lmao. I'd like to see how it goes for my super religious character and my abrasive Dalish character vs my calm Dalish character, but that will take some time. (I will prob end up doing it though lmao, or at least one other character bcuz I like the puzzle of trying to figure it out).

 

As for the Crossroads conversation, I played through that again with my dwarf rogue and did not get it. I really thought I had gotten it with her, and I suppose its possible I did since I didn't have a save right before the cutscene and might not have hit the exact order required, but I think it's more likely I got it with my Knight Enchanter Elf or Rift Mage Qunari. I'll probably try them later unless there are no saves near it. (If there was no save limit, this would be so much easier to figure out, dammit!!)

[frogkisser]

Okay, an update on my findings.

 

I can rule out that the character needs to be flagged as faithful to get that extra dialogue option between the warden and Hawke, because I reran it with my first Inquisitor, who was not Andrastrian (dwarf rogue) and I got it, while the run I did yesterday was also with a dwarf rogue not flagged as faithful and he did not get it. I also don't think it's related to any choices made in the Fade, because I made sure to choose the exact same dialogue options. The only thing different is that I didn't do all the little sidequests and just ran to the conversation, haha.

 

So my guess is it's something that happens before the Fade. I don't have any other characters with saves where it's easy to get them to that part of the game quickly, unfortunately.  It could still be related to a faith conversation, because while my dwarf who didn't get it wasn't Andrastrian at all and made it clear at every turn, while the one who did it get it was more in a state of confusion/apathy. So she didnt' choose "Yes, the Maker and I'm the Herald!!" responses, but neither did she take the flat out denials. But there's obviously a lot of other differences between them, so it could have been any other factor too. And there's always the possibility it's bugged, lmao. I'd like to see how it goes for my super religious character and my abrasive Dalish character vs my calm Dalish character, but that will take some time. (I will prob end up doing it though lmao, or at least one other character bcuz I like the puzzle of trying to figure it out).

 

As for the Crossroads conversation, I played through that again with my dwarf rogue and did not get it. I really thought I had gotten it with her, and I suppose its possible I did since I didn't have a save right before the cutscene and might not have hit the exact order required, but I think it's more likely I got it with my Knight Enchanter Elf or Rift Mage Qunari. I'll probably try them later unless there are no saves near it. (If there was no save limit, this would be so much easier to figure out, dammit!!)

 

Thanks a bunch for testing! That does help. 

 

What it could mean is that only non-faithful characters get that dialogue? This is my first faithful character, and first time I didn't get it, so....I'll try testing that as well, will see if I can confirm. 

[veeia]

Thanks a bunch for testing! That does help. 

 

What it could mean is that only non-faithful characters get that dialogue? This is my first faithful character, and first time I didn't get it, so....I'll try testing that as well, will see if I can confirm. 

 

Hrm, that would go against what I found. My wall of text was not very clear, let me just break down what I saw:

 

Inquisitor that did get the dialogue: female dwarf rogue who never chose decisive faithful dialogue options, but choose more of the "I'm not sure" options because I was RPing her as someone who was raised in Andrastrian culture/religion but unsure about faith and wasn't entirely concerned with it but was fairly sure that they weren't like a prophet or anything.
Inquisitor that did not get the dialogue: male dwarf rogue who I was RPing as a believer in the dwarven religion, and always chose the "I'm not Andrastrian/I don't believe in the Maker/Andrastre didn't give me this" options.

 

So the one that got the dialogue option was not flagged as faithful in that she didn't get the special dialogue options for faithful ever, but she probably picked more Andrastrian options than the one who didn't get it. So I was wondering if maybe there were occasions where you were given the option to casually reference the Maker that my female dwarf took, but my male dwarf didn't, and that was what flagged it.  But then it's interesting that you didn't get it with a faithful character. Might indicate that it's not tied to that after all. I'll make my next test my very very Andrastrian/I am definitely the Herald of Andraste character to see what happens there.

 

If it's not that, I wonder what else it could be. Besides the fact that you reference the Maker, the only other thing that dialogue option offers is a heightened sense of anger/frustration, really. The two dwarves I tested it it on have very different personalities I'm RPing them from, but the actual way it manifests in the game is not that different. They both tend to choose the middle dialogue option and both allied with the Mages and brought them into the Inquisition as equals. If it was flagged off some kind of personality amalgamation, it would have to be very subtle and I'm not sure we could pinpoint it. (But interestingly enough if it was, it would have been successful for me: my dwarf who got it was a very impatient character, and my dwarf who didn't was more measured and calm).  It's been awhile since I looked at all the tools developed for examining the game files, but I don't think there's a way to easily find the conditions, which is unfortunate, because that would be the easiest way. Might be a good thing to ask on twitter at some point, although who knows if they'll see it or decide to respond. 

[frogkisser]

Hrm, that would go against what I found. My wall of text was not very clear, let me just break down what I saw:

 

Inquisitor that did get the dialogue: female dwarf rogue who never chose decisive faithful dialogue options, but choose more of the "I'm not sure" options because I was RPing her as someone who was raised in Andrastrian culture/religion but unsure about faith and wasn't entirely concerned with it but was fairly sure that they weren't like a prophet or anything.
Inquisitor that did not get the dialogue: male dwarf rogue who I was RPing as a believer in the dwarven religion, and always chose the "I'm not Andrastrian/I don't believe in the Maker/Andrastre didn't give me this" options.

 

So the one that got the dialogue option was not flagged as faithful in that she didn't get the special dialogue options for faithful ever, but she probably picked more Andrastrian options than the one who didn't get it. So I was wondering if maybe there were occasions where you were given the option to casually reference the Maker that my female dwarf took, but my male dwarf didn't, and that was what flagged it.  But then it's interesting that you didn't get it with a faithful character. Might indicate that it's not tied to that after all. I'll make my next test my very very Andrastrian/I am definitely the Herald of Andraste character to see what happens there.

 

If it's not that, I wonder what else it could be. Besides the fact that you reference the Maker, the only other thing that dialogue option offers is a heightened sense of anger/frustration, really. The two dwarves I tested it it on have very different personalities I'm RPing them from, but the actual way it manifests in the game is not that different. They both tend to choose the middle dialogue option and both allied with the Mages and brought them into the Inquisition as equals. If it was flagged off some kind of personality amalgamation, it would have to be very subtle and I'm not sure we could pinpoint it. (But interestingly enough if it was, it would have been successful for me: my dwarf who got it was a very impatient character, and my dwarf who didn't was more measured and calm).  It's been awhile since I looked at all the tools developed for examining the game files, but I don't think there's a way to easily find the conditions, which is unfortunate, because that would be the easiest way. Might be a good thing to ask on twitter at some point, although who knows if they'll see it or decide to respond. 

Thanks so much for for clarifying

 

Yeah, it does get a bit confusing with the faithfulness thing when you have so many options to be like "I don't know" about it, both with Cassandra and Giselle.

 

The only real option I found of actually testing it was a) some of the Judgements (e.g. Ser Ruth) and how you speak with Giselle (a faithful character will say goodbye as 'Farewell, Revered Mother").

 

But all in all, very weird. I just know that I didn't get the dialogue with a faithful character, you got it with what's probably the 'pseudo-faithful', I know I got it with a Dalish unfaithful character, and you didn't get it with a non-faithful Dwarf. All this suggests that it's *not* dependent on the Inquisitor's faith, but like you, I've no idea what it can depend on, save maybe some of your dialogue choices within the Fade at that point of Here Lies the Abyss.

 

I'm mostly curious (and really stubborn) about this because, like you said about the subtle personality amalgamation, I want to know if there's some kind of hidden meter for the Inquisitor's personality or something. In DA2, Hawke's personality was easy to tell and easy enough to influence, but as far as I can tell (and I think everyone) the Inquisitor has no such 'changing' automatic responses depending on personality. Even if I really tried to have different personalities, it's easier to reflect with what the Inquisitor does than what he/she says. 

 

Unless, like in this situation, there's a hidden meter for the personality options and it's affecting some dialogue options, like this 'Oh sweet Maker would you please shut up" line we're discussing. 

 

There's definitely some kind of monitoring of which dialogue options you use that is very subtle. What springs to mind is some of the conversations you can have with Cassandra, or Cullen for example. In the prologue, at the very beginning if you're all like "Alright, I understand (and will help)" Cassandra later brings it up saying that "You agreed to come willingly". Another similar time is with one of her friendship conversations, she'll ask what guides you, and she'll refer to your answer yet again in Trespasser. So it's subtle, but totally there, and without any specific dialogue icons at all. 

[veeia]

I made sure to make the exact same dialogue choices in the Fade with both dwarves so I don't think it's that. I'm trying to think of any dialogue options in the entire Abyss chain that could lead to it but I'm not sure what they could be. My dwarf who got the option was more Warden friendly, while my one who didn't was less sympathetic, but I don't see how that would effect it. They did both save some of the wardens before the dragon appeared.

Looking at both of our summaries, I think you're right to conclude its probably not tied to faithfulness. It could be one specific faith dialogue, but not the meter that determines faithfulness the other time it appears with Giselle/judgements.

I wonder then, if there is a hidden personality system that wasn't utilized except there (or if there are other places we haven't found it popping up) and it's an artifact of that, or if it's specifically tied to an earlier dialogue option/quest/mission. Or if we were always meant to have four options/that one is supposed to be tied to one of the factors we have eliminated but it is bugged.

Either way, I'll be keeping an eye on it and see if I can draw any other conclusions. If it's a bug, then it's a bug, but if it does have other causes, then it's a strange design decision, especially if there aren't many other examples of it happening. We know that they used a hidden system to determine the Divine, so it's possible they were attempting something similar there with dialogue options and then didn't pursue it further. Which is an interesting idea. It would likely frustrate people because it seems like it assigns motivations to stated dialogue when there are multiple reasons for picking certain options (like lying, appeasing people etc ) but could be something worth refining or experimenting with for further games. Since both instances of less obvious dialogue options were found in main quest sections, I wonder if there are more in other main quest sections. Not something easy to spot , but I'll try to keep it in mind.

[veeia]

So I asked Patrick about it on Twitter (since he wrote the quest) and he was kind enough to respond.

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 14m14 minutes ago

Okay, IF I remember right, "Maker shut up" is only available if you HAVE NOT specifically said you're an atheist.
Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes 13m13 minutes ago

 Some lines are "Only if you have said you believe," some lines are "Only if you HAVE NOT said you don't," if that makes sense.

 

Which seems to cover my characters and most of yours, except for the one who was faithful. But perhaps there was one specific dialogue choice you took with that character that flagged you there, even though your character got the faithful status later on? I imagine tracking those kinds of things gets complicated, especially because you can change your mind as you go. So maybe one atheistic answer was enough to knock that option off for your character, while later religious ones were enough to flag the faithful status?