17 réponses à ce sujet

[Aliceeverafter]

Ok, I'm half way through my first run of DA2 and I'm emotionally wrung out. I've lost my mother as a zombie, my brother hates me, Merrill is a blood mage, Anders is an emotional wreck and also hosting a crazy spirit of justice (read vengence), Fenris is an angst porcupine and Isabella is constantly hitting on my boyfriend. [update. i got to the end of act2 and the i let the arishok kill me because let's face, Kirkwall is going down no matter what i do ...]

 

From the moment I watched Bethany being literally pasted by the ogre (my jaw dropped, this is like 5 minutes into the game) I've been struck by the tragic inevitability of this game. There is no way I'm going to go for a second run through for at least another six months and a few counselling sessions.

 

DA:I on the other hand is light and frothy and I've happily played back to back games just to romance my fav LI all over again, check out all the different outfits and different specs and spells and take pics of all the pretty scenery. I'm just not emotionally engaged at all, I just don't really care.

 

i had a whole load of suggestions here to make DA;I more tragic but tragedy sucks! I like looking at the pretty flowers and worrying if my armour is shiny today. I left the last suggestion for DA:I cos i think it's nice ...

 

11. Samson is saveable. And also a romance option if you manage to save him. Cullen glowers a lot.

 

happy thoughts and copper marigolds to you all

[Andraste_Reborn]

To be honest, I'd have found most of those twists annoying, not emotionally engaging.  But then, I was already engaged by the plot and characters in DAI - even more than in DA2, in fact - so I don't think it needed fixing in the first place.

 

I'd totally romance Samson, though.

[Abyss108]

I think after the first few of these happened, I would just stop caring - having an entire game where the worst thing happens in every possible situation just makes it obvious I shouldn't bother getting involved. I had the same thing happen in The Walking Dead game, where by season 2 I just wasn't really trying to save anyone because I knew they would die anyway. 

 

Tragedy is good, but has to be used sparingly and effectively. Inquisition had far more of an emotional connection to me because there were happy times spread in between the bad things. It still ended terribly for my character (entire religion was a lie, boyfriend wants to genocide her, maimed for life, etc) and it had far more of an effect on me than anything in DA2, because when things go wrong in DA2 I already know it's coming and it doesn't feel preventable.

[Donk]

You have some uh.. Interesting ideas, OP and a good imagination to boot but that's all a bit overkill

Having said that, all the drama in DA2 is what makes it my favourite in the series (that and the fun combat)

[Al Foley]

Blackwall sacrificing himself to stop Corypheus, even if he ends up still being Thom Ranier, would have been a good one.  It would've allowed him to atone and redeem himself.  Granted I might not have cared since Blackwall was kind of an ass throughout a lot of the game.  An unnecessary ass. 

[Cadeym]

I agree that the game should have had a lot more tragedy in it, but i'm not sure that killing off a lot of characters would do the trick. BioWare would have had to emphasize it throughout the entire game without it overpowering everything else.

 

I think one of the most tragic text based stories I have read in a game, was "A Tragedy in Black" from Skyrim.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I had the same thing happen in The Walking Dead game, where by season 2 I just wasn't really trying to save anyone because I knew they would die anyway. 

 

I felt exactly the same way! Loved the first season, but the second was just a study in trauma fatigue. When you know everyone will die, it stops having an impact. Why agonize over which character to sacrifice if you suspect they'll all be gone by the end of Episode Five anyway? I didn't even feel anything by the time I made Clementine shoot SPOILER at the end.

[Paragonslustre]

2. The sexy arishok from DA2 figures out how red lyrium got onto the surface. He's pi**ed. After Adamant, Hawke goes to Weishaupt but doesn't arrive. Similarly Bianca Davri disappears. Yep the Arishok has them both and he's going to execute them for their roles in giving Corypheus red lyrium. You have the option to 'persuade' him with your good looks and 'charm' to release one of them. You then have to look Varric in the eye when you tell him who you saved. Depending on how it plays out, Varric may leave the Innquisition forever.

 

 

*Looks Varric in the eye*  Bianca's dead.  You're welcome.

[Jedi Comedian]

Ok, I'm half way through my first run of DA2 and I'm emotionally wrung out. I've lost my mother as a zombie, my brother hates me, Merrill is a blood mage, Anders is an emotional wreck and also hosting a crazy spirit of justice (read vengence), Fenris is an angst porcupine and Isabella is constantly hitting on my boyfriend.
From the moment I watched Bethany being literally pasted by the ogre (my jaw dropped, this is like 5 minutes into the game) I've been struck by the tragic inevitability of this game. There is no way I'm going to go for a second run through for at least another six months and a few counselling sessions.

DA:I on the other hand is light and frothy and I've happily played back to back games just to romance my fav LI all over again, check out all the different outfits and different specs and spells and take pics of all the pretty scenery. I'm just not emotionally engaged at all, I just don't really care.

So while pottering about the house this morning i came up with a list of things that *would* make me really care about the plot and dialogue choices a darn sight more, and wring every possible angsty and teary eyed moment possible from the story:

WARNING: THERE ARE NO GOOD FEELS BEYOND THIS POINT .... (except number 11. That could go well.)

1. Corypheus it turns out, is your long lost dad, or at least your favorite uncle. You just didn't recognise him under all that blight, until his goes all Darth Vader on you. 'I am your father Lavellan.' Well sh*t.

2. The sexy arishok from DA2 figures out how red lyrium got onto the surface. He's pi**ed. After Adamant, Hawke goes to Weishaupt but doesn't arrive. Similarly Bianca Davri disappears. Yep the Arishok has them both and he's going to execute them for their roles in giving Corypheus red lyrium. You have the option to 'persuade' him with your good looks and 'charm' to release one of them. You then have to look Varric in the eye when you tell him who you saved. Depending on how it plays out, Varric may leave the Innquisition forever.

3. If you were in a romance prior to number 2 above, your LI dumps you because of your dubious morals. Other characters are still romanceable, or you can put off initiating a romance until this bit is over.

4. Josie is 'eliminated' by the assassins if you get the war table choices wrong, just like your Lavellan clan. If she lives, her sister (whatever her name was) is killed instead to make a point. Josie is distraught and may leave the Inquisition, blaming you for sending Leliana's agents to destroy the contract. If you'd let her promote the Du Parrakeets none of this would have happened. She and Leliana never speak again.

5. If Fenris was your DA2 LI he makes an appearance as a lyrium addled wreck, looking for Hawke. You can save him and restore his memory by having Dagna remove his markings, but it gives him only a month to live. But it'll be a happy month.

6. If you chose any of the angry options while talking to Cullen in DA2 (because of reasons) he now becomes infected by red lyrium when helping chase Samson in that temple. You can only save him by insisting he goes back to taking regular blue lyrium to flush it out of his system, or choose to let him stay as a red templar double agent to infiltrate Corypheus's ranks and send back info until the red lyrium takes it's final toll. Oh the feels ...

7. Krem is romanceable. There's a long cutesy quest like 'The Longest Road' quest in DA2 (where you got Aveline and Donnic together), where Bull helps every step of the way to get the boss and his favorite lieutenant together. So when Bull's quest triggers you get to choose to save the charges and Krem, or Bull. Except you know that by saving Bull he will never speak to you again, because Qun, right?

8. Dorian is kidnapped by a rogue group of templars because 1. he's a mage and 2. he's close to you. If you don't get to him in time (timed quest - who doesn't love a timed quest?) he's made tranquil and you have to live with seeing him in Skyhold every day as a reminder that you suck at timed quests.

9. Cole, oh dear. He gets bound by a rogue mage. Remember how you so easily wiped them out at the Crossroads? Turns out they're not so easy to kill. Those little weird things Cole does? The spiders webs are poisoned, the cheeses are bombs, the mint is really deathroot, and the plums? Don't even ask about the plums ...

10. Blackwall? Turns out you were too late to save him from being hanged. You have a war table option to explore the possibility of bringing him back to atone (DA:I is heavy on atonement) as a zombie but only if you aren't in a romance with him. If you *are* in a romance with him you get to chuck some flowers on his grave and lose all court approval with Celene, who withdraws support for the Inquisition. You have the option to then go to another Ball and win it all back again, starting at -50 court approval.

11. Samson is saveable. And also a romance option if you manage to save him. Cullen glowers a lot.

That's all my sick brain could think of !

Tragedy. This is what DAI needed.

[CardButton]

I think after the first few of these happened, I would just stop caring - having an entire game where the worst thing happens in every possible situation just makes it obvious I shouldn't bother getting involved. I had the same thing happen in The Walking Dead game, where by season 2 I just wasn't really trying to save anyone because I knew they would die anyway. 

 

Tragedy is good, but has to be used sparingly and effectively. Inquisition had far more of an emotional connection to me because there were happy times spread in between the bad things. It still ended terribly for my character (entire religion was a lie, boyfriend wants to genocide her, maimed for life, etc) and it had far more of an effect on me than anything in DA2, because when things go wrong in DA2 I already know it's coming and it doesn't feel preventable.

Ahh DA2, the worst part about you is that you did too much Tragedy and left too little connection between your Protagonist and the setting in your wake.  

 

Under no circumstances should a story create a situation where the best course of action for the Protagonist to take is to simply leave their own story, but that's exactly what DA2 did.  By the time ACT3 was halfway completed so much "tragedy" had happened to Hawke, they had so little control over their own story, and so many people they cared about had died, that beyond those people in their party ... there was absolutely no reason to remain in Kirkwall.  (Plus, most, if not all, of those in that party would have left with Hawke if they had simply asked them to). 

[Aliceeverafter]

Ahh DA2, the worst part about you is that you did too much Tragedy and left too little connection between your Protagonist and the setting in your wake.  

 

Under no circumstances should a story create a situation where the best course of action for the Protagonist to take is to simply leave their own story, but that's exactly what DA2 did.  By the time ACT3 was halfway completed so much "tragedy" had happened to Hawke, they had so little control over their own story, and so many people they cared about had died, that beyond those people in their party ... there was absolutely no reason to remain in Kirkwall.  (Plus, most, if not all, of those in that party would have left with Hawke if they had simply asked them to). 

yeah i just got to fight the arishok and i'm so over DA2. too much for me

[AlanC9]

If you're looking for bad feels and tragedy in DAI, romance Qun!Bull.

[Big I]

I don't like most of these options because it's obvious they're just trying to eff with the player for the hell of it. Cullen becoming a red templar? What? And why would the DA2 Arishok (who I assume is dead in most playthroughs) care about red lyrium?

 

My problem with enforced helplessnes, either in these suggestions or the DA2 main plot, is that it only works if it's reflected across the whole game. In DA2 there was a massive disconnect between sidequests, where Hawke is an unstoppable demi-god capable of slaying High Dragons and resolving any situation however they thought best, and the main quests, where Failure Is The Only Option. If everything the hero does is a hard fought partial victory, then you know that's just the way the world works in whatever game you're playing. But if everytime other than the main plot the hero is a force of nature, I start to ask myself things like "Wtf? Why couldn't I stop Anders from blowing up that Chantry?"

[Dai Grepher]

The only real emotional twists I could think of during the game were, 1. Cassandra wants to end the romance because she's too scared of being in a loving relationship. She had conflicts with duty, and that either of you might die, etc. Then the Inquisitor basically left alone, though there is still tension between them. I was expecting this to happen, actually.

2. I think Varric should have shown more emotion at Adamant under certain circumstances. If a male Hawke is left in the Fade, then Varric storms off angry, and punches some boxes over. If a female Hawke is left in the Fade, then Varric looks sad and walks off covering his eyes and can be heard weeping. And if Varric and Hawke were not friends, he just stands there is looks disappointed that Hawke died in a "Ah, too bad" sort of way.

[roselavellan]

Anyone who wants tragedy in DAI can just play a Solasmancing Lavellan. It's a completely different game then.

[Nimlowyn]

It was difficult to imagine anything topping the feels I got from DA2. I played a pro-Circle Spirit Healer who tried to work toward reform, to ease restrictions and allow more mages to live like her. On top of everything else, she struggled with feelings of hypocrisy and her faith in the mages of Kirkwall, and ultimately, in probably the most painful decision of her life, sided with the Templars. In DAI, true to form, she sacrifices herself so the Inquisitor and co. can escape. 

 

Then in DAI I played a devout Dalish. Her entire identity was constructed by her religious and cultural affiliations. They weren't just everything to her, they were her. And through her character arch she: discovers that her entire religion is a lie, falls hopelessly in love with the person she is sworn to protect her people from, and loses half an arm. She is having a very, very difficult time right now. 

 

I have jars and jars and jars of fan tears for Bioware across both DA2 and DAI. 

[Cute Nug]

Almost all of southern Thedas is a larger tragedy already in DAI then DA2 was.

 

The rebel mages are feckless and sad.

 

The Orlesion "nobility" are pathetic at their own Grand-ish Game. Their armies are so embarrassingly weak you save some of them by yourself from a few zombies.

 

The grey spawn go from heroes to absolute idiots for the first obviously evil tevinter mage that says hello. And why couldn't they help close the supposedly important sky hole that will destroy all of Thedas.

 

The holy pimplars mostly become red lyrium addicted monsters wiped out by the Inquisition.

 

That all those tranquills can be murdered and absolutely no one in Thedas cares speaks volumes. 

 

Maybe Solace should be allowed to hit the reset button on Thedas.

[Melyanna]

I think Inquisition has some pretty tragic moments, but they are not as "in your face" as in DA2, and at least some of them can be prevented.

I prefer it this way, and, while I loved the writing and character in DA2, I ended up being more invested emotionally in Inquisition.