57 réponses à ce sujet

[frogkisser]

 

To me, it's probably best that the Inquisitor elf option is Dalish, because if they aren't Dalish, then there is no possible way for you to play the game and have a Dalish character receive the knowledge at the Well of Sorrows. I know that when I play a character who is not elven and who is sympathetic towards the Dalish or at least not dismissive of their faith, it's frustrating to only be able to choose that character or Morrigan receiving something that is sacred to another culture. ( It makes me wonder that given this content was originally designed to be in a DA2 expansion, if Merrill was supposed to be an option.) It also gives Lavellan a different "flavor" there, which I think is what makes people interpret Lavellan as one of the best characters to play. (Which I think is reductionist because it's interesting for that quest certainly and there are all kinds of issues in the game that make Lavellan fun to play, but as I said earlier, is only one component). 

 

 

Yeah, I get what you're saying here. My first character was a Dalish mage, way back when the game first came out and there were no spoilers around, so I was nicely surprised at how involved the origins was as compared to the one in DA:O (which really is only important in the overarching series sense, not to the plot of Origins as some of the other origins are). 

 

That said, I've played human protagonists since then, and never actually given the power to Morrigan even so. While I myself trust her as my Warden would, my Inquisitor does not, and it's also relatively logical and rational to use the Well - from the 'oh it's a war resource' point of view. It did bother me a little that it's clearly the heritage of another race - but what really helped me in this case (since my human character is my favorite for some reason) is remembering that Flemeth is human, too. Having a human character being some kind of vessel for ancient elven spirits or knowledge is not without precedent in Thedas. 

 

It could also have been interesting to see the reactions of Abelas and others to a city elf character - and be able to play such as character as freaking out due to it all, a la Sera.

 

....Oh. Sera. Perhaps that's why there's no City Elf. Pretty much all the characters have backgrounds that are different from the Inquisitor's, at least in terms of geography and social situation. Having the Inquisitor be a city elf would pretty much make them the same as Sera, in a sense, just from a different city and alienage. 

[nightscrawl]

....Oh. Sera. Perhaps that's why there's no City Elf. Pretty much all the characters have backgrounds that are different from the Inquisitor's, at least in terms of geography and social situation. Having the Inquisitor be a city elf would pretty much make them the same as Sera, in a sense, just from a different city and alienage.

 
Due to her personal circumstances, Sera isn't really like any other city elf, either. In that sense, if there were a city elf origin, it would be like any other possible combination: human warrior + Blackwall, Cullen, or Cassandra, human mage + Dorian or Vivienne, etc. Each of those people has a background and circumstances that make them unique, and so would be the case if we had a city elf origin to compete with Sera; it is the same, yet different.
 
With the exception of human, which has two, all of the races have a single background. I'd argue that there is no city elf origin for DAI because they wanted to focus more on the Dalish. Also, there is the fact that a mage city elf would have been taken to the Circle, just as the mage Trevelyan was, so that is yet another divided origin. They clearly wanted to tell a specific story with the elves in DAI, so they went with the Dalish.

[frogkisser]

 
Due to her personal circumstances, Sera isn't really like any other city elf, either. In that sense, if there were a city elf origin, it would be like any other possible combination: human warrior + Blackwall, Cullen, or Cassandra, human mage + Dorian or Vivienne, etc. Each of those people has a background and circumstances that make them unique, and so would be the case if we had a city elf origin to compete with Sera; it is the same, yet different.
 
With the exception of human, which has two, all of the races have a single background. I'd argue that there is no city elf origin for DAI because they wanted to focus more on the Dalish. Also, there is the fact that a mage city elf would have been taken to the Circle, just as the mage Trevelyan was, so that is yet another divided origin. They clearly wanted to tell a specific story with the elves in DAI, so they went with the Dalish.

 

I mean in the sense that the socio-geographic origins are rather different for all others, but might not be so with Sera. Blackwall is Warden/soldier, who's wandered all over the world. Cassandra is a Nevarran princess and also the Hero of Orlais. Cullen was a Templar. The human noble is just that - a young human noble from Ostwick, who is neither templar, nor princess, nor warden. 

 

For a mage, Dorian is a noble from Tevinter, which is very different from Ostwick. Vivienne is arguably similar, but she is also the First Enchanter of her circle as well as a court liaison, so still quite different. And Solas, well, just can't be compared, not even to a Dalish mage PC, simply because Solas is not Dalish. 

 

A rogue character is very definitely Carta, which Varric is not. A qunari is Tal Vashoth, which Iron Bull is adamant about not being.

 

Sera is a Red Jenny, yes, and had been at the alienage from Denerim before traveling and ending up in Orlais. Not back in an Alienage, mind you, but she's still a City Elf by virtue of not being Dalish. 

 

If a city elf PC were introduced, as we had discussed, in Orlais as one of Briala's spies, for example, that already restricts that to either being a rogue or warrior, likely has them being either in or from an Alienage, and in Orlais. So, as compared to the other possible classes, this origin would be pretty darn close to Sera's both geographically and socio-economically. 

 

I definitely get what you're saying - there's so much room for head-canoning and essentially each origin is nonetheless unique, yet similar in some ways. But with the relatively limited social mobility of elves in Orlais who are not mages or wardens, I think it's pretty likely a city elf Inquisitor would be more similar to Sera than a human mage Inquisitor is to Dorian. 

[DarkAmaranth1966]

For seeing all of the other possible romances happen, I like an elven mage romancing Cullen, there are a few mage only and elf only dialogs with him. A Qunari of any class with Iron Bull or Sera is good and easy to do. I don't care for a Solas romance at all, or Sera but Sera beats Solas. A human goes best with Cassandra or Blackwall but a dwarf is cool for Blackwall too. I usually play mages so, don't often play a dwarf.

 

It's also a good game to romance no one and not worry about approval, just go with your gut and see what happens.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

My favorite playthrough was with a Male Dalish Elf Archer Rogue who romanced Josephine.

The best way to describe him is that he is a lot like Ameridan, minus the magic:- He did what he had to do because it was the sensible thing to do and he wished for peace between Elves and Humans. Here are some of the things he did:-

• Made Clan Lavellan rulers of Wycome.
• Conscripted the Templar Order.
• Reunited Celene & Briala and had Gaspard executed.
• Allowed Grey Wardens to join the Inquisition.
• Encouraged Cullen to cure himself of Lyrium addiction.
• Encouraged Cassandra to reform the Seekers.
• Made Leliana Divine Victoria.
• Destroyed the House of Repose's contract.

In the end, we have a Southern Thedas where:-

• Elves and Humans are getting along, with some Elves gaining legitimacy as rulers (hey look at that Solas, I achieved this without needing to bring about an apocalypse !).
• No more Lyrium addicts kept under a leash to protect people from magical threats, that is left to reformed Seekers.
• Mages gain their freedom without relying on moronic rebels who would sell mages out to be slaves under Tevinter.
• Wardens finally interact more with common folk and help them out instead of being reclusive.

My Inquisitor saw Sera as a childish prankster and became disillusioned by Ancient Elves after Temple of Mythal. As for Solas, he feels betrayed by him because he considered Solas to be a good friend of his, only to learn that his good friend now wants to tear down the Veil, killing lots of people including Elves to achieve a world state where 8 mages (Evanuris) were able to enslave the entire population of Elves.

Sounds like an awesome male Dalish Elf playthrough. Who were your three (main) favorite companions on that playthrough?

I have a hard time finding staple party members for this character archtype. I guess it's why I never completed a male dalish elf playthrough.

[nightscrawl]

Sera is a Red Jenny, yes, and had been at the alienage from Denerim before traveling and ending up in Orlais. Not back in an Alienage, mind you, but she's still a City Elf by virtue of not being Dalish.

I was referring to her unique personal circumstances that you learn if you get the cookies scene, that of having been partly raised in a human noble woman's house. She took up with the Jennys later on. She has had opportunities not enjoyed by her fellow city elves. I don't deny her various struggles, but it's not really the same as every other city elf. That unique set of circumstances helped to make Sera who she is and form her core set of values, particularly regarding "little people."

If there were a city elf origin for DAI, perhaps one traveled with the higher ranking Chantry members to the Conclave as a servant, I think that would have been sufficiently different from Sera's background for it to not be the same. I still think my previous comparisons are valid.

 

However I will say that I should not have compared the human mage with Dorian, particularly as I mentioned those differences as one of the reasons I don't consider them to be peers. I think the case for Vivienne still applies, though.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Sounds like an awesome male Dalish Elf playthrough. Who were your three (main) favorite companions on that playthrough?

I have a hard time finding staple party members for this character archtype. I guess it's why I never completed a male dalish elf playthrough.

 

Favorite Mage:- Dorian.

 

Favorite Warrior:- Cassandra.

 

Favorite Rogue:- This is a tie between Varric and Cole.

[frogkisser]

I was referring to her unique personal circumstances that you learn if you get the cookies scene, that of having been partly raised in a human noble woman's house. She took up with the Jennys later on. She has had opportunities not enjoyed by her fellow city elves. I don't deny her various struggles, but it's not really the same as every other city elf. That unique set of circumstances helped to make Sera who she is and form her core set of values, particularly regarding "little people."

If there were a city elf origin for DAI, perhaps one traveled with the higher ranking Chantry members to the Conclave as a servant, I think that would have been sufficiently different from Sera's background for it to not be the same. I still think my previous comparisons are valid.

 

However I will say that I should not have compared the human mage with Dorian, particularly as I mentioned those differences as one of the reasons I don't consider them to be peers. I think the case for Vivienne still applies, though.

 

Ahhh, true, I'd completely forgotten the history from the cookies scene. With that, and with a City Elf origin, if it existed, probably having relations either to Briala or some other higher ups, as you say, there would be sufficient difference between Sera.  Actually, as you say, would be interested to see differences in outlook if a City Elf was a servant, and Sera either liking you for it (one of the little people) or hating you (for, I don't know, not attempting to change your lot or something.) I stand corrected!

[veeia]

Ahhh, true, I'd completely forgotten the history from the cookies scene. With that, and with a City Elf origin, if it existed, probably having relations either to Briala or some other higher ups, as you say, there would be sufficient difference between Sera.  Actually, as you say, would be interested to see differences in outlook if a City Elf was a servant, and Sera either liking you for it (one of the little people) or hating you (for, I don't know, not attempting to change your lot or something.) I stand corrected!

 

That would be interesting. I always felt there an interesting dynamic to the Brosca(or Aeducan)/Sigrun relationship that wasn't explored to its full potential, and that would be kind of a similar situation, only with different potential for conflict. (Also, I've never run a city elf with Velanna, but that's kind of a reversal of what you'd get with Lavellan/Sera, in a way, if Sera was a more "typical" city elf. I wonder how much that's explored)

 

I mean, obviously they decided Dalish would contribute the most or be the most interesting story, so that's what we got. But it's fun to think about.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I really like picking the romances where there's a high level of connection to the main story, but I also only do m/m romances. I'm a gay male and there's so little media that represents us, especially with a developed romance storyline and not just offhanded comment. It means a lot more to me to see that content. Unfortunately, the "story relevant" romances are pretty rarely the "m/m romances". Anders is about the only time that's happened. So, I generally have to settle pretty hard. I made an elf mage and romanced Dorian. I sort of want to play a rogue at some point, in which case I'll likely romance Dorian again, since I'm not really into the Iron Bull option. 

 

I was really disappointed when they announced Solas would be female elf only and even more disappointed when he turned out to be easily the most story involved and interesting option (imo). If it were available, I would have definitely romanced him with a male elf. I found Dorian's romance to be extremely disappointing, if I'm being honest. He was emotionally unavailable and deflected with jokes instead of anything heartfelt. It wasn't my type of romance. I also hated that the first actual gay character was saddled with a "gay oppression" heavy plotline in a game that had thus far been really accepting of same sex relationships. It was extremely unpleasant dealing with that and I just wish they wouldn't have made his character so much about being gay, rather than having an interesting backstory with his sexuality being no more important to it than it was for anyone else. All in all, I found it to be a big let down.

[tanzensehen]

Not being able to play as a City Elf was a pity. There was so much interesting stuff there!
 

When it come to romances, I went with the option that I liked because I could sense a connection between them. A Human Mage can bond over Cassandra over their need to reform their people, even if they disagreed on some big stuff - still my favourite romance of the game. I love Bull with Lavellan (especially as a mage) because they are both outsiders who care a lot about the people under their command. I went with rogue female Trevelyan with Josephine because both did well when it come to dealing with fussy nobles for the Greater Good.

(All my other Inquisitors were pretty baffled when Josephine talked about "poverty" while having lands and an estate, at least my Trevelyan understood what she meant). At the same time, as a mercenary Adaar understands what Sera meant by "being order around by nobles" (and she was also a mage, for extra fun). 
I romanced Dorian with a male Cadash because dwarf society (both on the surface and in Orzammar) reminded me of Tevinter.
My female human mage romanced Blackwall so they can be lead a revolution or something while disapproving of everything Vivienne does. 
(And his continue use of "My lady" bothered me less this way). 
I even made a male rogue Lavellan for Harding, because scouts.
 

 

[vertigomez]

When it come to romances, I went with the option that I liked because I could sense a connection between them. A Human Mage can bond over Cassandra over their need to reform their people, even if they disagreed on some big stuff - still my favourite romance of the game. I love Bull with Lavellan (especially as a mage) because they are both outsiders who care a lot about the people under their command. I went with rogue female Trevelyan with Josephine because both did well when it come to dealing with fussy nobles for the Greater Good.
(All my other Inquisitors were pretty baffled when Josephine talked about "poverty" while having lands and an estate, at least my Trevelyan understood what she meant). At the same time, as a mercenary Adaar understands what Sera meant by "being order around by nobles" (and she was also a mage, for extra fun). 
I romanced Dorian with a male Cadash because dwarf society (both on the surface and in Orzammar) reminded me of Tevinter.
My female human mage romanced Blackwall so they can be lead a revolution or something while disapproving of everything Vivienne does. 
(And his continue use of "My lady" bothered me less this way). 
I even made a male rogue Lavellan for Harding, because scouts.

Now that's dedication!

What's funny is I did almost exactly the same thing.

[tanzensehen]

Now that's dedication!

What's funny is I did almost exactly the same thing.

 

I take my fictional romances seriously! I didn't mention my two female Lavellan because a) what other choice do you have with Solas? ii) romancing Cullen has turned into "Sk8ter Boi - The Playthrought"
 

Really?Now you have to tell me what's different!  

[nightscrawl]

I really like picking the romances where there's a high level of connection to the main story, but I also only do m/m romances. I'm a gay male and there's so little media that represents us, especially with a developed romance storyline and not just offhanded comment. It means a lot more to me to see that content. Unfortunately, the "story relevant" romances are pretty rarely the "m/m romances". Anders is about the only time that's happened. So, I generally have to settle pretty hard. I made an elf mage and romanced Dorian. I sort of want to play a rogue at some point, in which case I'll likely romance Dorian again, since I'm not really into the Iron Bull option. 

 

I was really disappointed when they announced Solas would be female elf only and even more disappointed when he turned out to be easily the most story involved and interesting option (imo). If it were available, I would have definitely romanced him with a male elf. I found Dorian's romance to be extremely disappointing, if I'm being honest. He was emotionally unavailable and deflected with jokes instead of anything heartfelt. It wasn't my type of romance. I also hated that the first actual gay character was saddled with a "gay oppression" heavy plotline in a game that had thus far been really accepting of same sex relationships. It was extremely unpleasant dealing with that and I just wish they wouldn't have made his character so much about being gay, rather than having an interesting backstory with his sexuality being no more important to it than it was for anyone else. All in all, I found it to be a big let down.

 

I've gotta ask, if you dislike the romance to that degree (perfectly fine!) then why are you going to do it again? Are you hoping to look at it differently, or...? It just seems to me that forcing yourself to do that, just because it's the only m/m option you can tolerate (since you're not into Iron Bull), doesn't seem like the best way to enjoy the game.

 

However, if you are going to try it again, I do encourage you to pick some different dialogue options and perhaps do reloads to see the various outcomes.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I've gotta ask, if you dislike the romance to that degree (perfectly fine!) then why are you going to do it again? Are you hoping to look at it differently, or...? It just seems to me that forcing yourself to do that, just because it's the only m/m option you can tolerate (since you're not into Iron Bull), doesn't seem like the best way to enjoy the game.

 

However, if you are going to try it again, I do encourage you to pick some different dialogue options and perhaps do reloads to see the various outcomes.

 

The m/m options are one of the main reasons I play Bioware games, but like I said, I'm still used to settling hard. 

[vertigomez]

I take my fictional romances seriously! I didn't mention my two female Lavellan because a) what other choice do you have with Solas? ii) romancing Cullen has turned into "Sk8ter Boi - The Playthrought"

Literally just laughed out loud. HELLO DARKNESS 2002, MY OLD FRIEND.

Spoiler

 

Really?Now you have to tell me what's different!

Well, since you asked... The only difference is Josie got a big burly qunari dude, Blackwall's with Cadash, and Cullen and Cass are stuck in romance limbo. Otherwise, it's all the same!

[tanzensehen]

Literally just laughed out loud. HELLO DARKNESS 2002, MY OLD FRIEND.

Spoiler

: D

Those glorious days!

Well, since you asked... The only difference is Josie got a big burly qunari dude, Blackwall's with Cadash, and Cullen and Cass are stuck in romance limbo. Otherwise, it's all the same!

Wow! (A pity about Cassandra thought.)
I thought about Cadash and Blackwall as well!

[phoray]

I have question. I also love this thread.

Anyway; is there ever any dialogue where an LI says your Quiz and they disagree on something political/philosophical?

I was just thinking about how I had my mage elf romance Solas, but then he kept giving her disapproves on a bunch of stuff. I won points with side quest etc, so I guess it evened out, but I found it immersion breaking that if I hadn't done side quests, he technically would have made out with a Lavellan he didn't actually like? Like the second kiss scene on the balcony, if you make him disapprove a lot, does the option disappear ?

[tanzensehen]

I have question. I also love this thread.

Anyway; is there ever any dialogue where an LI says your Quiz and they disagree on something political/philosophical?

I was just thinking about how I had my mage elf romance Solas, but then he kept giving her disapproves on a bunch of stuff. I won points with side quest etc, so I guess it evened out, but I found it immersion breaking that if I hadn't done side quests, he technically would have made out with a Lavellan he didn't actually like? Like the second kiss scene on the balcony, if you make him disapprove a lot, does the option disappear ?

I'm not sure about Solas, but I romanced Cassandra with a Trevelayn who didn't believe in the Maker and didn't think he was chosen and it's brought up even in the romance scene - she's okay with it. If you ally withe the mages she disapproves, but in the dialogue she says that you did well.

[phoray]

I'm not sure about Solas, but I romanced Cassandra with a Trevelayn who didn't believe in the Maker and didn't think he was chosen and it's brought up even in the romance scene - she's okay with it. If you ally withe the mages she disapproves, but in the dialogue she says that you did well.

 

I had actually seen that on youtube, I think, but does differring beliefs get brought up anywhere else?

 

I mean, I guess I'm just imagining that if Solas had approached my Elf Mage Quiz in anger (because I am aware there are two tones/takes to that scene) about how screwed up she was, instead of what I got which was the admiration tone, if the kiss/love option would have Skizo'd the conversation into kissing anyway.

[frogkisser]

I had actually seen that on youtube, I think, but does differring beliefs get brought up anywhere else?

 

I mean, I guess I'm just imagining that if Solas had approached my Elf Mage Quiz in anger (because I am aware there are two tones/takes to that scene) about how screwed up she was, instead of what I got which was the admiration tone, if the kiss/love option would have Skizo'd the conversation into kissing anyway.

 

I may be wrong since I've only every finished the Solas romance once (but done this scene quite a few times) but I *think* the first kiss scene will only trigger when you have high approval. I tried talking to him and was surprised not to see that option [that whole "I'd like to get to know you better" and then dream of Haven] but then I did a few of his sidequests, and it appeared. I would assume it's the same for the second kiss scene, since between those two scenes he's basically deciding whether or not to pursue the romance. Whether it needs higher approval than the first scene I've no idea. 

[phoray]

I may be wrong since I've only every finished the Solas romance once (but done this scene quite a few times) but I *think* the first kiss scene will only trigger when you have high approval. I tried talking to him and was surprised not to see that option [that whole "I'd like to get to know you better" and then dream of Haven] but then I did a few of his sidequests, and it appeared. I would assume it's the same for the second kiss scene, since between those two scenes he's basically deciding whether or not to pursue the romance. Whether it needs higher approval than the first scene I've no idea.

Ah. I'm glad I asked this. I'd been thinking this whole time that my Solasmance was a bit of a lie considering it appeared almost a rivalmance but maybe Solas actually liked my Elf Quiz after all. I thought once you did the Haven Kiss scene. You could pretty much do whatever and still get the rest of the romance.

[frogkisser]

Ah. I'm glad I asked this. I'd been thinking this whole time that my Solasmance was a bit of a lie considering it appeared almost a rivalmance but maybe Solas actually liked my Elf Quiz after all. I thought once you did the Haven Kiss scene. You could pretty much do whatever and still get the rest of the romance.

 

Hmm, actually, I don't know about the second bit, not 100%. I would assume that if you lost approval with him after the Haven kiss, the romance option would no longer pop up, but I have not tested that. At the very least, this is how it works with other romanceable characters e.g. Sera.

 

 I do know however that a 'rivalmance' is not possible in DAI, at least not in the sense it was in DA2, since low approval here means they just hate you. I do know that you can start off with Solas hating you to the point of punching him, then bring up his approval and go through the romance (not my playthrough, just someone who told me that here on the BSN boards). 

[veeia]

Cassandra I think is the best at acknowledging that you're different because her quest is about her personal faith and the game tracks your faith independently of her romance/friendship, so it's easy for them to put some references in there.

 

Sera's romance deals with that too, towards the end, but doesn't really reference back to it much....which is annoying, because you can fight with her in your last conversation before the final boss and then never really resolve it.

 

With Solas I had to create the conditions for disagreement (I'm the one who punched then romanced him )  because I found it so annoying to have to always agree with him on the romance because it made it so unbalanced, but I don't think there's a way to have real fundamental recognized differences there, I did a lot of metagaming and headcanoning to make it work. I love his romance in theory but in execution find it extremely frustrating. I think the type of romance it's geared for is just not my thing, but I think the idea of a romance between Solas and your character is a really cool one so I've tried to make it work lmao.

 

It's not really a political/philosophical thing, but in the Blackwall romance you can tell him you never loved him and then get back together with him, and he'll give a special line for that. I found the fact that your responses in the jail scene and the judgment scene were separate made it a pretty neat little part of the romance because you could effectively have your Quizzie express a strong emotion and then later change their mind and have it acknowledged, which isn't something you can do a lot in the game.

[Gold Dragon]

To get the Haven Scene in Skyhold, one must have at least 35 approval with Solas (I found out the hard way).