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[Giant ambush beetle]

The term ''Sniper'' describes a person. A sniper is someone who uses cover and concealment to hide himself from enemy sight, his best weapon is observation, camouflage and knowing the surroundings, he shoots from stealth with high accuracy and range is his friend.  Any weapon in such persons hands that allows him to do his job can be labeled a sniper rifle, therefore we never truly had a sniper rifle in the Mass Effect trilogy in the first place.  We had scoped precision rifles or designated marksmen rifles (DMR's), and the protagonist never used them even close to their full potential

 

Heck, level design did not allow us to make long range shots, (200+ yds), and stealth was never truly an option ME3 so there was nothing sniper-y in the game. I hope this changes in Andromeda, I enjoy shooting long range rifles in real life and would love to see it implemented in the game. 

[KaiserShep]

Snipers sucks in ME1.

But I always found them pretty good in ME2 and 3.

It doesn't matter much though,since I played the trilogy as a Sentinel...

 

 

I dunno. I thought ME1 was the only game of the lot where sniping was truly meaningful. The big problem with 2 and 3 though was that maps were so small that any rifle with decent range was sufficient to pick off enemies from a distance, like the Mattock; it's just that you could easily one-shot kill most enemies from far away.

 

My personal favorite weapon in this class is actually the Indra, and I always equipped my Vanguard with it. I'm hoping Andromeda brings something like it back.

[Serza]

I hope BioWare includes sniper rifles in Andromeda.

 

And I hope they add a ZOOMABLE SCOPE. 

 

That would be interesting indeed, but I wouldn't hold my breath, as a lot of modern, non-sniper-rifle scopes are fixed-magnification (ACOG variants, PSO-1, SUSAT, etc.) and I do not foresee a requirement to change that, even with what is essentially a Gauss weapon.

 

(I used a replica PSO-1, the actual behaviour is a little different than games would suggest. Also, funnily, with that experience, I can say the 2D scopes are the most realistic compared to the way I used this one.)

 

The term ''Sniper'' describes a person. A sniper is someone who uses cover and concealment to hide himself from enemy sight, his best weapon is observation, camouflage and knowing the surroundings, he shoots from stealth with high accuracy and range is his friend.  Any weapon in such persons hands that allows him to do his job can be labeled a sniper rifle, therefore we never truly had a sniper rifle in the Mass Effect trilogy in the first place.  We had scoped precision rifles or designated marksmen rifles (DMR's), and the protagonist never used them even close to their full potential

 

Heck, level design did not allow us to make long range shots, (200+ yds), and stealth was never truly an option ME3 so there was nothing sniper-y in the game. I hope this changes in Andromeda, I enjoy shooting long range rifles in real life and would love to see it implemented in the game. 

 

I couldn't agree more.

[Monk]

I thought all of the ME games provided a good "range" of opportunities to use a sniper rifle (for a videogame)... not at super long distances of course, but certainly at medium range.  Certainly, ME does not have a real stealth feature, but there's other IPs around (AC, for example) for that sort of thing.

 

Umm, i'm not sure if there was a problem on the PC for extended distances but i would literally take my Mako out of rocket range on the 360, to the point of not being able to see their health bar, and wiped out Geth left and right. Even armatures didn't stand a chance, even from across the lava lake of whatever major-ish hell hole planet that had them (Maji?). If i could spot their head, they'd go down almost without fail (think i ran into a couple clipping issues but very rarely).

 

 

A couple long range maps for the sniper rifles would be great.

That said if there are some large maps where you can engage enemies from a distance, assault rifles and LMGs need a range and accuracy bump.

 

No. That's counter to their design. LMG are bullet hoses with minimal accuracy and assault rifles, in bursts, have some accuracy. You want long-distance accuracy above 30% while undercover, you go sniper. If you still love those other guns oh so much more, ya go ahead and run for cover. Roll, bay-bay, roll !

 

 

Spoiler

The term ''Sniper'' describes a person. A sniper is someone who uses cover and concealment to hide himself from enemy sight, his best weapon is observation, camouflage and knowing the surroundings, he shoots from stealth with high accuracy and range is his friend.  Any weapon in such persons hands that allows him to do his job can be labeled a sniper rifle, therefore we never truly had a sniper rifle in the Mass Effect trilogy in the first place.  We had scoped precision rifles or designated marksmen rifles (DMR's), and the protagonist never used them even close to their full potential

 

Heck, level design did not allow us to make long range shots, (200+ yds), and stealth was never truly an option ME3 so there was nothing sniper-y in the game. I hope this changes in Andromeda, I enjoy shooting long range rifles in real life and would love to see it implemented in the game. 

 

Maji, i think it was Maji (the planet's red), had such a range across the lava from the large armatures that they were as big as the hair used for firing. It's difficult to say if this exceeds 200 yds but it sure in hell felt like it.

 

Quick aside: A sniper rifle is a man-portable, high precision, shoulder-fired rifle, for military or law enforcement use, designed to ensure more accurate shooting at longer ranges than other small arms. (Wikipedia) I'll desist if you're military, Beetle.

[Serza]

Incorrect. Light machine guns are meant to grant greater firepower to a squad, but not "minimal accuracy" bullet hoses. Assault rifles also do not have "some" accuracy. They are often very precise weapons. (As a matter of fact, even the AKM guarantees a hit on a target two hundred yards away, provided no range estimation or aiming errors occur, and this only gets better with the American 5.56 rifles, or the later AK-74 - take that as an example)

 

A light machine gun is something created with sustained/suppressive fire in mind. The M249 is not a useless bullet hose, yet it is a light machine gun by design.

 

Sometimes, you can find a crossbreed between the two, for example the M27 IAR, which is a cousin to the HK416 (it might be a different designation, but I'm not sure if they changed anything).

[Khrystyn]

I like the sniper rifle in the targeting-marksman role where we are closer than 600 meters distance to an enemy.

 

I would also like to have an assignment where we have to make a long shot beyond 2500 meters to protect another group of people in the distance; it would make for a nice trophy/award. After we have gathered a few SR upgrades then a particular SR-challenging assignment would become available. Perhaps if we miss after two to three shots, then we would have to advance under fire. Give us the chance/opportunity to neutralize or cripple the boss before engaging up close and personal. Options, options.

 

I have a few concerns with the SR mechanics as it has been implemented.

 

A) The large size of the targeting circle before I zoom in. Way too often have I centered the targeting circle directly at the enemy, but when I zoom in I'm scope-locked on a nearby wall. It drives me nuts. The SR targeting circle, imo, needs to be a bit smaller so that aiming is more friendly. I like the ME-1 SR experience (with stability enhancements) more than its ME-2 implementation. I think the narrow zoom angle is too small.

 

  I like a one-shot one-kill experience after a few upgrades, and having to select the proper ammo for the enemy's unique defenses.

 

I recently went through Tali's recruitment in ME-2 on Haestrom and reached the courtyard where the Colossus was on the opposite side from the entrance balcony. The SR had no effect whatsoever from the balcony. I learned quickly that that tactic was impossible, but it would have been nice if the HUD blocked me from selecting SR in that situation. Forgive me, I'm a newbie.

[UpUpAway]

Umm, i'm not sure if there was a problem on the PC for extended distances but i would literally take my Mako out of rocket range on the 360, to the point of not being able to see their health bar, and wiped out Geth left and right. Even armatures didn't stand a chance, even from across the lava lake of whatever major-ish hell hole planet that had them (Maji?). If i could spot their head, they'd go down almost without fail (think i ran into a couple clipping issues but very rarely).

 

 

 

No. That's counter to their design. LMG are bullet hoses with minimal accuracy and assault rifles, in bursts, have some accuracy. You want long-distance accuracy above 30% while undercover, you go sniper. If you still love those other guns oh so much more, ya go ahead and run for cover. Roll, bay-bay, roll !

 

 

 

Maji, i think it was Maji (the planet's red), had such a range across the lava from the large armatures that they were as big as the hair used for firing. It's difficult to say if this exceeds 200 yds but it sure in hell felt like it.

 

Quick aside: A sniper rifle is a man-portable, high precision, shoulder-fired rifle, for military or law enforcement use, designed to ensure more accurate shooting at longer ranges than other small arms. (Wikipedia) I'll desist if you're military, Beetle.

 

Still nothing close to the 'half mile away" shots mentioned by the OP.  As I recall, most of my longest sniper shots in ME1 ranged at about 200 yards (according to the display), which I would term a "mid-range" sniper shot rather than a long-range one.  I don't think you could get much longer than 200 yards... perhaps, but you would have to drive in closer to get the enemies to spawn first and then pull back to try the shot.  I do that on the skyway at Feros to get a long shot at one of the armatures, but I'm not sure the distance on that one though (it's been awhile and I can't remember).  I do know that if I just drive to my "spot" and scope for the shot, the armature hasn't spawned yet.  I have to drive forward to get it to spawn and then fall back to my cover.  There is another really long range shot you can get on an armature on Therum, but the rifle loses a lot of power at that range (i.e. it takes several hits at that range to bring the armature down).  I regularly go after geth and such with the SR when I am too far away to see a health bar.

[Monk]

Incorrect. Light machine guns are meant to grant greater firepower to a squad, but not "minimal accuracy" bullet hoses. Assault rifles also do not have "some" accuracy. They are often very precise weapons. (As a matter of fact, even the AKM guarantees a hit on a target two hundred yards away, provided no range estimation or aiming errors occur, and this only gets better with the American 5.56 rifles, or the later AK-74 - take that as an example)

 

A light machine gun is something created with sustained/suppressive fire in mind. The M249 is not a useless bullet hose, yet it is a light machine gun by design.

 

Sometimes, you can find a crossbreed between the two, for example the M27 IAR, which is a cousin to the HK416 (it might be a different designation, but I'm not sure if they changed anything).

 

Apologies, i was thinking of SMGs not LMGs. Hell, did we even have LMGs in ME, except maybe the Revenant?

 

Regards to assault rifles, at 200+ yds, are they capable of accuracy beyond 60%? I was under the assumption weapons like the M16 were great when scoped but wouldn't guarantee a [near] 100% [hit] in optimal conditions.

[BioWareM0d13]

I have experience with LMGs. I used to be assigned one (a SAW) as part of my job.

The SAW was highly accurate and stable when fired from the prone position with the bipod deployed (as intended), and had a greater maximum effective range than the M-16. That wasn't really unique to the SAW either, as all machine guns typically out range assault rifles, particularly when used with a bipod or tripod.

In Andromeda I doubt we'd have maps so large that the player could engage enemy mobs from the equivalent of 1,000 meters out. In the Shepard trilogy it was typically well under 100 meters. Even if maps were larger in Andromeda, 200 to 500 meters is probably a more realistic expectation, and more likely closer to the former. If so, that should be well with the maximum effective range for assault rifles and LMGs. Using the M-16 and SAW as examples for each class, that would be 550 and 600 meters respectively. And those are weapons that would be primitive by ME standards. ME weapons from the same classes should have greater max effective ranges.

Of course balance is an issue, since this after all a game...I just wish they'd find a way to do that without going the weird FPS route of having machine guns being inaccurate "spray and pray" weapons, outranged by rifles or even pistols.

[Monk]

Still nothing close to the 'half mile away" shots mentioned by the OP. …

 

Well, if the M40's a decent gauge for a sniper rifle, they're only capable of ~800 yds (a quarter-mile), though no doubt on great days better rifles could reach farther to like 1200 yds.

 

 

…  As I recall, most of my longest sniper shots in ME1 ranged at about 200 yards (according to the display), which I would term a "mid-range" sniper shot rather than a long-range one.  I don't think you could get much longer than 200 yards... perhaps, but you would have to drive in closer to get the enemies to spawn first and then pull back to try the shot.  I do that on the skyway at Feros to get a long shot at one of the armatures, but I'm not sure the distance on that one though (it's been awhile and I can't remember).  There is another really long range shot you can get on an armature on Therum, but the rifle looses a lot of power at that range (i.e. it takes several hits at that range to bring the armature down).  I regularly go after geth and such with the SR when I am too far away to see a health bar.

 

It's possible i'm remembering the distances wrong. Either way, if the (max) zoom was at 200 yds for a target, we could have done just as well with assault rilfes with scopes. The M16's capable of hitting a target 601 yds away.

 

Hmm, wonder if there's a dev post which mentions the dimensions of some of the maps to provide some clarification.

[Helios969]

^I don't know Han, if DAI is any indication of MEA, sniper rifles could be employed pretty effectively.  I guess it all depends how they lay the maps out...and how things are scaled.

[sjsharp2011]

just because you don't snipe doesn't mean somebody else doesn't. People have kinetic barriers. It's not always gonna be one shot. It's a video game fam.

Ihnjdeed I generally prefer keeping my enemy at distance and sniping them.

 

I understand your point, but it's a balance issue. You can't let the player hide away and one shot everything. Taking that into account I think campaign wise they were more or less balanced. You obviously had absolute garbage SRs like the Incisor/Viper/Raptor but in general they were usable.

Multiplayer wise all guns suffer from the "fighting again bullet sponges" syndrome unfortunately and the guns that were bad on campaign are even worse on MP.

 

I'd like way bigger maps (for both SP and MP), and more consistency in roles. Like, if the Viper is gonna suck damage wise, don't give the gun such a high magnification scope, and improve its RoF for christ sake.

I donj't know about that as those are the rifles I tend to use in the game. They ma yb weaqker but I prefer a gun that dosen't require you to erload every time you shoot it and by that I mean have to replace the thermal clip every shot. Which I find better in the event you miss with a shot. Which with some of those 1 shot weapoons I tend to do more than not. Each to their own though I guess.

[UpUpAway]

 

Well, if the M40's a decent gauge for a sniper rifle, they're only capable of ~800 yds (a quarter-mile), though no doubt on great days better rifles could reach farther to like 1200 yds.

 

 

 

It's possible i'm remembering the distances wrong. Either way, if the (max) zoom was at 200 yds for a target, we could have done just as well with assault rilfes with scopes. The M16's capable of hitting a target 601 yds away.

 

Hmm, wonder if there's a dev post which mentions the dimensions of some of the maps to provide some clarification.

 

 

I don't think the game is projecting realistic ranges for ARs either... just shortened everything up to make it relative and maintain a balance in the game.  That is, sniper rifles in the game have a longer range than the other weapons; but the enemy spawn in distance restricts them to a shorter range than IRL.

[katerinafm]

Personally I've had the most fun when using sniper rifles in the ME games. Especially in SP where you can have slow motion and can line up a perfect shot. Very satisfying.

[Monk]

@Han Thanks. My familiarity with LMGs is fairly scarce and pretty damn warped from playing FPS's. And from looking at the effective point target ranges, i can see what you're saying about the (M249?) SAW vs the M16.

 

@UpUpAway95 Yeah. Though, if what the PR is implying regards to MEA's maps is true, we might get a more accurate feel with sniper rifles.

 

Wiki references for the curious: M16  M249 SAW  M40

[Serza]

Apologies, i was thinking of SMGs not LMGs. Hell, did we even have LMGs in ME, except maybe the Revenant?

 

Regards to assault rifles, at 200+ yds, are they capable of accuracy beyond 60%? I was under the assumption weapons like the M16 were great when scoped but wouldn't guarantee a [near] 100% [hit] in optimal conditions.

 

Some statistics I saw not too long ago claimed that the natural bullet spread wasn't so big at those ranges. So yes, at some 200, 300 yards, your rifle can easily hit targets, provided you are good enough.

 

I have experience with LMGs. I used to be assigned one (a SAW) as part of my job.

The SAW was highly accurate and stable when fired from the prone position with the bipod deployed (as intended), and had a greater maximum effective range than the M-16. That wasn't really unique to the SAW either, as all machine guns typically out range assault rifles, particularly when used with a bipod or tripod.

In Andromeda I doubt we'd have maps so large that the player could engage enemy mobs from the equivalent of 1,000 meters out. In the Shepard trilogy it was typically well under 100 meters. Even if maps were larger in Andromeda, 200 to 500 meters is probably a more realistic expectation, and more likely closer to the former. If so, that should be well with the maximum effective range for assault rifles and LMGs. Using the M-16 and SAW as examples for each class, that would be 550 and 600 meters respectively. And those are weapons that would be primitive by ME standards. ME weapons from the same classes should have greater max effective ranges.

Of course balance is an issue, since this after all a game...I just wish they'd find a way to do that without going the weird FPS route of having machine guns being inaccurate "spray and pray" weapons, outranged by rifles or even pistols.

 

I have no experience of my own, but yes, the SAW does have a longer barrel. Wiki (don't bite me, I'm not pulling more realiable sources right now, sorry) also claims that the effective range of the M16 rifle is 550 meters, or 600 yards.

[Fidite Nemini]

Snipers sucks in ME1.

 

Spectre SR X + High Explosive Ammo X + 2x High Velocity Barrel VII = tank cannon =/= sniper rifle

 

Also ludicrously fun to use in low G environments due to physics shenanigans.

 

Alternatively Snowblind X Ammo and Scram Rail Xs. Not sure if you could go 2x Scram Rail X or if you needed a Frictionless Materials X, but with the rate of fire debuff on the Snowblind X Ammo you could essentialy just keep firing as soon as the rifle is reloaded without ever overheating, dealing pretty solid DPS.

[CHRrOME]

I donj't know about that as those are the rifles I tend to use in the game. They ma yb weaqker but I prefer a gun that dosen't require you to erload every time you shoot it and by that I mean have to replace the thermal clip every shot. Which I find better in the event you miss with a shot. Which with some of those 1 shot weapoons I tend to do more than not. Each to their own though I guess.

 

Yeah I understand. And that's the advantage of those type of SRs, my problem is that one Widow shot equals to like 10 Viper shots, and the Viper has a pretty slow rate of fire already. So I prefer risking a miss rather than knowing I'll have to hit 5 times my target to kill it if I use a Raptor or a Viper.

That's why I said, some those guns needed better RoF and the Incisor especially needed a heck of a lot of recoil reduction.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Some statistics I saw not too long ago claimed that the natural bullet spread wasn't so big at those ranges. So yes, at some 200, 300 yards, your rifle can easily hit targets, provided you are good enough.

 

 

I have no experience of my own, but yes, the SAW does have a longer barrel. Wiki (don't bite me, I'm not pulling more realiable sources right now, sorry) also claims that the effective range of the M16 rifle is 550 meters, or 600 yards.

 

With a very good rest modern standard issue assault rifles are easily capable of hitting man sized targets out to 500-700yds if its not too windy. I've seen it first hand, its not a problem for a skilled shooter who knows the bullet drop. And in most cases its not even the accuracy that limits the range to those numbers, its the fact that the bullet slows down from super to subsonic speeds at those ranges, the transition from super to subsonic creates sudden air turbulence which greatly upsets accuracy of the bullet. (I've had this happen numerous times when pushing scoped small caliber (22lr) rifles to their limits, at 75 meters the groups were small as a dime, at 100 meters the groups opened up to palm-size. According to my calculator the transition happens right past 75 meters with most ammo)

 

That's the ideal situation. 

 

General consensus is that  ''battlefield accuracy'' - a pumping heart, adrenaline, low light situations, awkward shooting angles and less than ideal stances in combination with having bullets fly past your head-  can be said to be about man sized targets out to 100-150 meters max with a standard issue assault rifle and optical sights like an ACOG, dot or what have you. 

 

That's aimed fire. 99% of the firing that is done on the modern battlefield is barely aimed at all, its mostly cover fire to keep the enemy pinned down until heavy weaponry takes them out. Or a designated marksman/sniper. Its safe to say that 99,99% of the casualties on a modern battlefield are not caused by rifle fire. 

 

That's also a reason why governments are slow and reluctant when it comes to upgrading standard issue assault rifles, it barely makes a difference. They rather invest in better tank armor, precision rifles or intelligent drones than throwing their billions at new rifles that may or may not make the infantry 1% more effective.  (unless its a shady deal, hands getting greased and all that)

[UpUpAway]

 

@Han Thanks. My familiarity with LMGs is fairly scarce and pretty damn warped from playing FPS's. And from looking at the effective point target ranges, i can see what you're saying about the (M249?) SAW vs the M16.

 

@UpUpAway95 Yeah. Though, if what the PR is implying regards to MEA's maps is true, we might get a more accurate feel with sniper rifles.

 

Wiki references for the curious: M16  M249 SAW  M40

 

 

Possibly, but they would also have to adjust the enemy spawn distance out by quite a ways... one can't hit an enemy that hasn't generated yet.

[Abedsbrother]

That would be interesting indeed, but I wouldn't hold my breath, as a lot of modern, non-sniper-rifle scopes are fixed-magnification (ACOG variants, PSO-1, SUSAT, etc.) and I do not foresee a requirement to change that, even with what is essentially a Gauss weapon.

If the original Red Faction could do it in 2001 (!), I fail to see why Andromeda can't.

[Serza]

With a very good rest modern standard issue assault rifles are easily capable of hitting man sized targets out to 500-700yds if its not too windy. I've seen it first hand, its not a problem for a skilled shooter who knows the bullet drop. And in most cases its not even the accuracy that limits the range to those numbers, its the fact that the bullet slows down from super to subsonic speeds at those ranges, the transition from super to subsonic creates sudden air turbulence which greatly upsets accuracy of the bullet. (I've had this happen numerous times when pushing scoped small caliber (22lr) rifles to their limits, at 75 meters the groups were small as a dime, at 100 meters the groups opened up to palm-size. According to my calculator the transition happens right past 75 meters with most ammo)

 

That's the ideal situation. 

 

General consensus is that  ''battlefield accuracy'' - a pumping heart, adrenaline, low light situations, awkward shooting angles and less than ideal stances in combination with having bullets fly past your head-  can be said to be about man sized targets out to 100-150 meters max with a standard issue assault rifle and optical sights like an ACOG, dot or what have you. 

 

That's aimed fire. 99% of the firing that is done on the modern battlefield is barely aimed at all, its mostly cover fire to keep the enemy pinned down until heavy weaponry takes them out. Or a designated marksman/sniper. Its safe to say that 99,99% of the casualties on a modern battlefield are not caused by rifle fire. 

 

That's also a reason why governments are slow and reluctant when it comes to upgrading standard issue assault rifles, it barely makes a difference. They rather invest in better tank armor, precision rifles or intelligent drones than throwing their billions at new rifles that may or may not make the infantry 1% more effective.  (unless its a shady deal, hands getting greased and all that)

 

I agree with you. My experience from what is essentially a sport is hardly a match, but (combined with common sense, after all, it's not 1:1) they say the same stuff.

 

If the original Red Faction could do it in 2001 (!), I fail to see why Andromeda can't.

 

It's not a technological issue. It's an issue of "we don't really need it to hit, a single magnification suffices."

 

So, all in all, I'm expecting single-magnification on assault rifles, and maybe variable on sniper rifles/DMR.

[capn233]

The sniper rifle class of weapons was relatively clearly defined in ME1 and ME2.  Discussion about real world weapons may be interesting, but it isn't entirely applicable.

 

ME1 had multiple zooms.  Not that it matters, but at Mass Effect technology level probably every weapon would have adjustable zoom on the shooter's HUD.

 

Accuracy is practically all in the realm of gameplay balance, not necessarily realism or even consistency with lore.  In lore guns are portrayed as much more accurate than they are in gameplay given that they have VI's driving them that supposedly automatically compensate for elevation, windage, and can magically adjust shots for increased damage.

[Monk]

Possibly, but they would also have to adjust the enemy spawn distance out by quite a ways... one can't hit an enemy that hasn't generated yet.

 

It might be possible to do a prefetch of the area where the player zooms so as the player pans, the enemies appear in at least outline form (yellow/orange or black, depending on the imaging specified).

[AnimalBoy]

Only guns i ever used during the Mass Effect series were Assault Rifles/Machine Guns/Sniper Rifles. Never had any use for hand guns or shotguns.