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Bioware must make Mass Effect Andromeda like they have to regain their crown.


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#1
txgoldrush

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Because right now the bar is set with The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, Hearts of Stone, and Blood and Wine.

 

After playing Blood and Wine, its crazy to think about how Bioware got so soundly thrashed in most facets of game direction, with CD Projeckt RED also giving Bethesda a whipping as well. It is also probably the first game to not settle and have their cake and eat it too with open world design and strong RPG storytelling.

 

And writing too. Its quest design, its characterization, and how it implements both quest and character completely and utterly destroy Bioware's use of "talking codex entries", and how Bioware handles character quests. CD Projeckt RED's writing also takes risks, and routinely surprise the player in a way that is organic and well done, and grounds its writing in the human condition, foregoing most of the hero of destiny RPG writing. Even hilarious quests sometimes have dark or sad tones, for example "Big Game Hunter" in Blood and Wine. And the Witcher 3 organically weaves secondary and even side quests to the main plot, both weaving out and back in (although ME3 and really DA2 does this as well). In most Bioware games, the main plot and its side quests are packaged separately.

 

What caused CDPR to take the crown? Because they were willing to work outside of formula and take risks, and they were allowed to as well. This is the problem with Bioware (and Bethesda). They are stuck with doing the same things over and over, and when they break out and do something different, the fanbase is divided, causing them to go back to basics and do the same thing over again.

 

It wasn't ME3 or even DA2 that caused them to lose the crown, but DAI. DAI played it safe, because Bioware was too scared to keep evolving in fear of its fanbase. In fact DAI is a step back in story and quest implementation, of originality, of characters taking part of the plot, and the return of those god awful talking codex entries. With that and its clear main plot and exploration segregation, its no wonder CD Projeckt RED dethroned them.

 

Look at Telltale. They released The Walking Dead to many awards and acclaim as well as sales. In reality, it was a deeply flawed game with weak mechanics and dumbed down gameplay, as well as with glaring technical issues. Instead of the gaming press pointing these flaws out and telling them that they need improvement, they were showered with GOTY awards. So Telltale kept doing the same thing, making the same game, using the same engine. Result: Their sales decline. Enter DONTNOD Entertainment. A near bankrupt company expanded on Telltales formula while adding elements from other successful games, and made a very risky story that dealt with real world issues. Result: This original IP, Life is Strange, outsold Telltales games for Borderlands, Game of Thrones, and Minecraft COMBINED, while being awarded (they even a somewhat of a Peabody Award). The king was dethroned by DONTNOD. How? By evolving the genre and tackling issues games rarely tackle while the "king" did the same thing over and over.

 

This is what CDPR has done to Bioware. DAO and ME2 were overpraised. The case though is that Bioware did not ignore the flaws, the fans did for the most part. DA2 may have fixed some of DAO's problems but it being rushed out caused new ones. ME3 from top to bottom fixed ME2's problems, but an underdeveloped ending and its risky storytelling caused a backlash (backlash for the former needed to be addressed and was, while the latter, Bioware should have ignored). The reaction to these two games lead Bioware to make DAI, which shared DAO and ME2's problems. And guess what? They are less forgiven now, and will be even less forgiven after The Witcher 3.

 

What Bioware needs to do is improve side quest integration with the main quest, have characters work organically and not separate from the story, have more info about them come from action and even environmental storytelling instead of the 20 question talking codex entry, have storytelling that takes risks and not try to please everybody. Bioware will regain the throne by going outside its formula because now, the formula is outdated. Its so 2003.


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#2
Jedi Comedian

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I still think CDPR's greatest achievement was Assassins of Kings, but that's just my opinion. I'm a sucker 4 extremely dark settings.
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#3
Tatar Foras

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Dutch is that you?


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#4
Jedi Comedian

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If anything I want Andry to learn from TSL, ME2 and TW2 (the 3 greatest games ever IMO).

#5
txgoldrush

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Assassin's of Kings is actually the worst.

 

The way Geralt regains his memories is so contrived, and with the story being more about Roche or Iorveth, Geralt gets little organic character development.

 

Wild Hunt is truer to the novels and is better seen as the true sequel to Lady of the Lake.



#6
Jedi Comedian

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Assassin's of Kings is actually the worst.

The way Geralt regains his memories is so contrived, and with the story being more about Roche or Iorveth, Geralt gets little organic character development.

Wild Hunt is truer to the novels and is better seen as the true sequel to Lady of the Lake.

That's one of the reasons I like it the most, I love Roche, Iorveth and Letho. It also had my favourite localizations in TW universe.
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#7
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Bioware still make the best rpg's in my eyes. They started the whole trend of modern rpg's with Kotor and Mass Effect. What they need to do is use more of EA's resources. They can be useful. They need to look at what's hot, like the Witcher, and implement the things that are good. The witcher's romance scenes are on point. I know Europeans have different views in terms of nudity and whatnot than us Americans and Canadians but come on. it is a mature game. They are ahead of bioware in that way. They should learn and adapt.
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#8
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They're still a great company. They have created some of the best rpg's out there. They've dwindled down in recent years but I firmly believe Mass Effect Andromeda will whoop the Witcher @$$. Besidez, can't customize geralts face. then again, the LI's are sexier. Bioware needs to learn from the competition and adapt.



#9
SNascimento

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 ME2 were overpraised

That's a hard thing to do. And Mass Effect 2 is Bioware best game. 


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#10
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That's a hard thing to do. And Mass Effect 2 is Bioware best game.

True. Best dlc too.
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#11
The Hierophant

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I like TW3's sidequests just as much as the next guy but do you know what i think the team should focus their attention on even more?...

 

The hair. 


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#12
NKnight7

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That's a hard thing to do. And Mass Effect 2 is Bioware best game. 

 

Probably the one that I enjoyed the most out of the trilogy.


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#13
Jedi Comedian

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Probably the one that I enjoyed the most out of the trilogy.

If not for ME2 I think I wouldn't have bothered with the trilogy. I like outlaws and rogues, not goodie marines.

#14
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If not for ME2 I think I wouldn't have bothered with the trilogy. I like outlaws and rogues, not goodie marines.

To be honest that game got me hooked on the series. I was 12 and my dad took me to GameStop to buy a game and he told me to get Mass Effect 2 cause it looked cool. I remember telling my dad, "I don't want it. It looks dumb". Got it anyway. How wrong and naïve I was.
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#15
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About The Witcher 3, I believe the one place it totally blow me away was technically. It is just an incredibly gorgeous world. The amount of details everywhere is just incredible. And they create those amazing natural spaces without losing the civilization aspect. More than a beautiful world, it felt a beautiful world that was alive. That one of my main concers for MEA.

As far as quest design, I don't think it's signifcantly different than the best of RPGs. I don't think they worked outside the formula at all. Indeed, as far as core storytelling goes, The Witcher 3 is no different than Baldur's Gate 2 for example. It's just that they integrated it very well in their game. Well, everything in TW3 seems to integrate well. 

I believe there are ways that MEA can surpass it. Even if can match TW3 in its strongest points, it can deliver in character interactions and cinematic storytelling in a way that TW3 did not. 

We'll see. But if Andromeda wants to be in the level of TW3, I'd say it has to be the best game Bioware has made since ME2. 


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#16
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About The Witcher 3, I believe the one place it totally blow me away was technically. It is just an incredibly gorgeous world. The amount of details everywhere is just incredible. And they create those amazing natural spaces without losing the civilization aspect. More than a beautiful world, it felt a beautiful world that was alive. That one of my main concers for MEA.

As far as quest design, I don't think it's signifcantly different than the best of RPGs. I don't think they worked outside the formula at all. Indeed, as far as core storytelling goes, The Witcher 3 is no different than Baldur's Gate 2 for example. It's just that they integrated it very well in their game. Well, everything in TW3 seems to integrate well.

I believe there are ways that MEA can surpass it. Even if can match TW3 in its strongest points, it can deliver in character interactions and cinematic storytelling in a way that TW3 did not.

We'll see. But if Andromeda wants to be in the level of TW3, I'd say it has to be the best game Bioware has made since ME2.

Witcher doesn't have the mako.
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#17
SNascimento

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I like TW3's sidequests just as much as the next guy but do you know what i think the team should focus their attention on even more?...

 

The hair. 

Well, if Andromeda doesn't have this kind of hair realism:

tumblr_nnefkjXz9e1svgb0ro2_400.gif

It's pre-pre-order cancelled!

 



#18
Cunning Villain

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I don't think BioWare ever set the bar with Mass Effect/Dragon Age or held any "crowns."  I thought the bar was set by Obsidian and Fallout: New Vegas, which was the best game I had ever played before May 19th, 2015.



#19
ArabianIGoggles

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To be honest that game got me hooked on the series. I was 12 and my dad took me to GameStop to buy a game and he told me to get Mass Effect 2 cause it looked cool. I remember telling my dad, "I don't want it. It looks dumb". Got it anyway. How wrong and naïve I was.

Sounds like the old man knows his stuff.


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#20
txgoldrush

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That's a hard thing to do. And Mass Effect 2 is Bioware best game. 

No it isn't.

 

Ever heard of Baldur's Gate II?

 

Mass Effect 2 is very flawed. Lets count the ways, shall we?

 

1) The main plot is terrible. You cannot argue this. Its full of plot holes, opens with deus ex machina space magic (and people have the gall to complain about ME3's ending using it, wow), and its one big contrivance after another. Also feels like a rush job.

 

2) The morality system. Forced to lack onto one or the other without cheats. It also badly represents what the morality is about. Renegade is not about being the biggest jerk in the galaxy. ME2 gets it wrong most of the time. At times, its gets Paragon wrong!!!!!!

 

3) The lack of character interconnections. Outside a couple fights and Jacob introducing everyone to the ship (and his relationship with Miranda), the crew has very little to do with eachother. Hard to make a dirty dozen type game out of it.

 

4) The way side quests are handled is so inorganic. Instead of side quests coming naturally out of the plot, it is done formulaic in where it becomes more of a therapy session for everyone in your crew. Its filler.

 

5) it lacks an ending. I said it, complain about ME3 all you want, but ME2 has no solid ending. It took DLCs to even connect it with ME3.


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#21
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Sounds like the old man knows his stuff.

I guess so.

#22
Remix-General Aetius

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10 months before release. Is it too early, too late or just in time?

 

 

I don't think BioWare ever set the bar with Mass Effect/Dragon Age or held any "crowns."  I thought the bar was set by Obsidian and Fallout: New Vegas, which was the best game I had ever played before May 19th, 2015.

 
LMFAO FNV best game ever played.................next you'll tell us Rebecca Black deserves a Grammy. 

 


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#23
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No it isn't.

 

Ever heard of Baldur's Gate II?

Yes, alongside with KoTOR and ME2 it's one of the three Bioware masterpieces. But it's behind the other two. 


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#24
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No it isn't.

Ever heard of Baldur's Gate II?

Mass Effect 2 is very flawed. Lets count the ways, shall we?

1) The main plot is terrible. You cannot argue this. Its full of plot holes, opens with deus ex machina space magic (and people have the gall to complain about ME3's ending using it, wow), and its one big contrivance after another. Also feels like a rush job.

2) The morality system. Forced to lack onto one or the other without cheats. It also badly represents what the morality is about. Renegade is not about being the biggest jerk in the galaxy. ME2 gets it wrong most of the time. At times, its gets Paragon wrong!!!!!!

3) The lack of character interconnections. Outside a couple fights and Jacob introducing everyone to the ship (and his relationship with Miranda), the crew has very little to do with eachother. Hard to make a dirty dozen type game out of it.

4) The way side quests are handled is so inorganic. Instead of side quests coming naturally out of the plot, it is done formulaic in where it becomes more of a therapy session for everyone in your crew. Its filler.

5) it lacks an ending. I said it, complain about ME3 all you want, but ME2 has no solid ending. It took DLCs to even connect it with ME3.

this is gonna end well. :rolleyes:. Besides the flaws the game was great. But no go ahead and have your opinion but keep it to yourself. Let's keep things positive.
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#25
txgoldrush

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I don't think BioWare ever set the bar with Mass Effect/Dragon Age or held any "crowns."  I thought the bar was set by Obsidian and Fallout: New Vegas, which was the best game I had ever played before May 19th, 2015.

 

Mass Effect has had a huge impact on the industry.....this cannot be denied.


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