638 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabraxal]

What is this intense need of Witcher zealots to preach about that game on another dev's forums? We get it. The game is your lord and saviour. Doesn't mean all of us liked the franchise in general or TW3 specifically. For many, Inquisition is the better written and designed game. But even though Bioware doesn't have to regain the crown (still sitting pretty on that nug's head), I have no problem with them making games like they need to regain the crown. We'll get more games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition.

[txgoldrush]

I think The Witcher 2 is pretty great, certainly much better than Witcher 3's politically-gutted, Mario-inspired plotting, but I completely agree with this.

The Witcher saga was never about its politics, it was only the backdrop. TW2 forces it into the forefront.

[wolfsite]

And the Witcher fans are one of three reasons why I don't like The Witcher games:  the other two being the combat is dull repetitive boring and not challenging and the characters just being dull and UN-interesting as well as contradicting themselves (In game: "I never want to see you again"  Next Game: in bed shagging the protagonist)

[txgoldrush]

What is this intense need of Witcher zealots to preach about that game on another dev's forums? We get it. The game is tour lord and saviour. Doesn't mean sll of us liked the franchise in general or TW3 specifically. For many, Inquisition is the better written and designed game. But even rhough Bioware doesn't have to regain the crown (still sitting pretty on that nug's head), I have no problem with them making games like they need to regain rhe crown. We'll get more games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition.

Because we want Bioware to improve, and we want more than just CDPR making good games. And some of us were fans of Bioware games.

 

The thing is however, is that TW3 has far more acclaim that DAI does, a rare game where the critical acclaim has matched the gamer acclaim. And it has nothing to do with zealots.

 

Games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition cannot be made anymore without its flaws being crucified. Thats because the bar has been set higher. Standards get tougher, times change, and things age.

[AlanC9]

That said, I feel it's easier for Naughty Dog to achieve consistent tones and themes, since their games are linear and shorter than most RPGs. I can think of very few RPGs that have managed to maintain a properly consistent tone across the entire game, and Obsidian/Black Isle basically wrote all of them by my reckoning, albeit I admittedly do not play JRPGs.

Is tonal consistency really all that desirable in a game lasting dozens of hours? I can think of several TV shows which shift tone radically from one episode to the next. Orphan Black switches tones within episodes; the various clones at times seem to be not only on different shows, but shows in different genres.

[Totally Not a Poodle]

Note: I am replying to the title, not the original post. I haven't even read that because I am one of those people.

 

In my opinion, BioWare really do have to make Andromeda as good as possible in a bid to win back their 'crown'. Before Inquisition released, BioWare were at the top of my list of favourite developers. They could do no wrong. I loved everything I go my hands on. Then Inquisition came out and they dropped like a sack of bricks. Still up there, but I pray that Inquisition wasn't the first in this new development style BioWare have. I want Andromeda to say to Inquisition, "I am my own thing. You will not be a stain on what I am and what I can be". If Andromeda is anything like Inquisition - I don't know how to explain it but I will know when I play it - then BioWare are forever off that list, and it would be unlikely they could ever get back on it.

 

I don't believe in third chances.

[wolfsite]

Because we want Bioware to improve, and we want more than just CDPR making good games. And some of us were fans of Bioware games.

 

The thing is however, is that TW3 has far more acclaim that DAI does, a rare game where the critical acclaim has matched the gamer acclaim. And it has nothing to do with zealots.

 

Games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition cannot be made anymore without its flaws being crucified. Thats because the bar has been set higher. Standards get tougher, times change, and things age.

 

Actually DA:I got plenty of acclaim recognition, and GOTY awards equal to or even greater than W3.  Witcher fans just dismiss that because it pokes massive holes in there bragging rights to win a pointless argument that even the development studios want nothing to do with.

[AlanC9]

Because we want Bioware to improve, and we want more than just CDPR making good games. And some of us were fans of Bioware games.

The thing is however, is that TW3 has far more acclaim that DAI does, a rare game where the critical acclaim has matched the gamer acclaim. And it has nothing to do with zealots.

Games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition cannot be made anymore without its flaws being crucified. Thats because the bar has been set higher. Standards get tougher, times change, and things age.

This is hard to argue with, but that's mostly because it's vague. I'm not getting the precise content of what you're requesting. It's coming across as vague blather about how Bio should make better games and not make mistakes. Well, duh; it's not like they were trying to make mistakes and produce bad games.

[dreamgazer]

The Witcher saga was never about its politics, it was only the backdrop. TW2 forces it into the forefront.

 

It's closer to the foundation of the story than the backdrop. All three entries rely on the political landscape to put plot wheels in motion. 

 

And yes, Witcher 2 really emphasized those political machinations, and it's a vastly superior story and game because of it. 

[txgoldrush]

It's closer to the foundation of the story than the backdrop. All three entries rely on the political landscape to put plot wheels in motion. 

 

And yes, Witcher 2 really emphasized those political machinations, and it's a vastly superior story and game because of it. 

The books didn't. it was a backdrop, and in TW1, Geralt can choose to stay out of it and thats really the true path of the game.

 

TW3 goes back to the books to where the story revolves around finding and protecting Ciri. TW3 is closer to the roots of the franchise than TW2 is.

 

 

Actually DA:I got plenty of acclaim recognition, and GOTY awards equal to or even greater than W3.  Witcher fans just dismiss that because it pokes massive holes in there bragging rights to win a pointless argument that even the development studios want nothing to do with.

DAI got awards recognition because 2014 was a very weak year in gaming. Thats why its being dismissed. 2015 was a far stronger year for gaming and TW3 cleaned up in the awards.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The Witcher saga was never about its politics, it was only the backdrop. TW2 forces it into the forefront.

 

And that's why it has the strongest plot by a pretty big margin if you ask me. ''Look at our take on Baba Yaga or Snow White!'' isn't that interesting.

[dreamgazer]

This is hard to argue with, but that's mostly because it's vague. I'm not getting the precise content of what you're requesting. It's coming across as vague blather about how Bio should make better games and not make mistakes. Well, duh; it's not like they were trying to make mistakes and produce bad games.

 

Aside from the personalized writing for the side-quests, which rely on a repetitive template, there isn't anything all that bar-setting about The Witcher 3, either. I went searching for a princess between castles over twenty years ago with a Nintendo controller in my hands.

[Blooddrunk1004]

The only people who are making these "vs" threads are fanboys who just recently discovered or played TW3 and they are now considering it to be 2nd coming of Jesus and every other game is a sin in their eyes.

 

Anyone who sticks around on CDPR forums knows that TW3 is being criticized heavily all the time, while i do consider a game to be masterpiece it's not perfect either and has flaws. Should BW take some inspirations from TW3? Sure, but most important thing is make Andromeda a MASS EFFECT game and don't try to be anything else.

[Kabraxal]

Because we want Bioware to improve, and we want more than just CDPR making good games. And some of us were fans of Bioware games.
 
The thing is however, is that TW3 has far more acclaim that DAI does, a rare game where the critical acclaim has matched the gamer acclaim. And it has nothing to do with zealots.
 
Games like ME2, Origins, and Inquisition cannot be made anymore without its flaws being crucified. Thats because the bar has been set higher. Standards get tougher, times change, and things age.

Except CDPR isn't factually better. YOU think it raised the bar. I found it an uninspiring redux of dark fantasy tropes with dull, lifeless cliches as characters, a poor story, god awful combat, an insane amount of repetitive filler not bouyed by stellar writing or characters, and ham fisted handling of themes that take the game from mature to something I found rather juvenile in tone. If that is the "bar set" then I hope Bioware doesn't match it. It would be a massive step backwards.

I get that some love TW3. Just realise that plenty of people love Inquisition. The games target different standards. Some gamers enjoy both. Others do not.

[Dr. rotinaj]

Witcher 2's plot writing wasn't all that great and it falls completely flat in Act III in to where they had to expand on key narrative points in free DLC. Geralt regains his memories in the most contrived of manner and his development was far from great. Roche and Iorveth take control of the plot when it should be Geralt.

 

And lets go over this......The Elder Blood was supposed to stop the White Frost, and it was Ciri. Avallach is NOT all trustworthy and this was pointed out in the game. In fact, TW3 pulls a false antagonist trick with him. And Radovid showed signs of madness and a willingness to take revenge on the mages in TW1.

 

The contrived memory stuff didn't really bug me because it was the least interesting part of the story. I cared more for the political stuff. And the fact that Geralt's development isn't great doesn't really mean anything to me because he's just not a great character. Roche and Iorveth were just better written. This is something that happened often in the series. The best characters are the ones that weren't in the books, the ones that CDPR had free reign with. Olgierd, Roche, Iorveth.

 

No, Ciri's child was supposed to stop the White Frost not her. And just cuz Geralt said that he was untrustworthy doesn't erase the fact that Avallach is probably the most honourable character in the game. And frankly I don't think Radovid's distrust of mages sufficiently foreshadowed his I-listen-to-chess-pieces brand of lunacy.

[Dr. rotinaj]

 

TW3 goes back to the books to where the story revolves around finding and protecting Ciri. TW3 is closer to the roots of the franchise than TW2 is.

 

 

I believe that CDPR is it's best when it isn't forced to stick to those roots. They make their best when they have creative freedom. As was the case with Assassins of Kings and Hearts of Stone. It's why I am very excited for Cyberpunk.

[txgoldrush]

The contrived memory stuff didn't really bug me because it was the least interesting part of the story. I cared more for the political stuff. And the fact that Geralt's development isn't great doesn't really mean anything to me because he's just not a great character. Roche and Iorveth were just better written. This is something that happened often in the series. The best characters are the ones that weren't in the books, the ones that CDPR had free reign with. Olgierd, Roche, Iorveth.

 

No, Ciri's child was supposed to stop the White Frost not her. And just Geralt said that he was untrustworthy doesn't erase the fact that Avallach is probably the most honourable character in the game. And frankly I don't think Radovid's distrust of mages sufficiently foreshadowed his I-listen-to-chess-pieces brand of lunacy.

How is Avallach honorable? What makes you think he is not doing it for self interest.

 

Any Elder Blood could stop the White Frost, Ciri was the last in the line.

 

Radovids distrust for mages was foreshadowed in the first game

[Giantdeathrobot]

Except CDPR isn't factually better. YOU think it raised the bar. I found it an uninspiring redux of dark fantasy tropes with dull, lifeless cliches as characters, a poor story, god awful combat, an insane amount of repetitive filler not bouyed by stellar writing or characters, and ham fisted handling of themes that take the game from mature to something I found rather juvenile in tone. If that is the "bar set" then I hope Bioware doesn't match it. It would be a massive step backwards.

I get that some love TW3. Just realise that plenty of people love Inquisition. The games target different standards. Some gamers enjoy both. Others do not.

 

Yeah, if we talk about bars, TW3 raised none of mine.

 

Side-quests? Sorries, New Vegas is still top dog on that front, the side-content not only is numerous, there are almost always multiple ways to solve the quests unlike TW3 where you either hit things, find things with Detective Mod- Witcher Senses, or use Axii in conversations once in a blue moon. Or sometimes the multiple outcomes are actually detrimental to the player, such as allowing Hattori to continue making dumplings.

 

Main Story? Planescape: Torment takes this award, and by far. TW3 isn't even in on the competition. Admitedly, Bioware games aren't that high on that front either, but still. Jade Empire was pretty good here.

 

Combat? TW3 is middle of the pack. The first two games were even lower. I have a few favorites here, but the recent RPG with the best combat IMO was Pillars Of Eternity. I also actually enjoyed DA:O and Mass Effect 3 a lot on that aspect.

 

RPG mechanics and progression system? When my level 1 Geralt plays almost the same as my currently level 42 one save a few potions? Please. I've seen action games with a more developped progression system. New Vegas also wins that one, albeit Dragon Age generally does a decent job here too.

 

Character writing? Bioware runs away with that one. It's why I play their games after all. Still a good effort from CDPR, for sure, but they just can't top Bioware here.

 

Besides, the only ''bar'' I care about is mine. Even if millions of people think TW3 is the best game ever, well, I don't. It's good. Great, even. But not God's very own gift to gaming.

[wolfsite]

 

DAI got awards recognition because 2014 was a very weak year in gaming. Thats why its being dismissed. 2015 was a far stronger year for gaming and TW3 cleaned up in the awards.

Thank you for proving my point perfectly.

[txgoldrush]

Except CDPR isn't factually better. YOU think it raised the bar. I found it an uninspiring redux of dark fantasy tropes with dull, lifeless cliches as characters, a poor story, god awful combat, an insane amount of repetitive filler not bouyed by stellar writing or characters, and ham fisted handling of themes that take the game from mature to something I found rather juvenile in tone. If that is the "bar set" then I hope Bioware doesn't match it. It would be a massive step backwards.

I get that some love TW3. Just realise that plenty of people love Inquisition. The games target different standards. Some gamers enjoy both. Others do not.

Well most don't.

 

Many fans like outdated ideas, but ideas become stagnant, things change. Bars are set, and most people expect you to use that bar.

 

I believe that CDPR is it's best when it isn't forced to stick to those roots. They make their best when they have creative freedom. As was the case with Assassins of Kings and Hearts of Stone. It's why I am very excited for Cyberpunk.

But it should or the franchise loses its identity. It isn't Game of Thrones. Its about The Witcher and the people he cares about. TW2 does a poor job in relation to this, and I can say TW1 does as well. Indeed the new characters are well written, but so is the book characters. For example, Regis.

 

The fact of the matter is games are now going to be compared to The Witcher 3 when it comes to standards. Thats a fact whether you like it or not.

[txgoldrush]

Thank you for proving my point perfectly.

No it doesn't, it means that DAI's acclaim was distorted.

 

Yeah, if we talk about bars, TW3 raised none of mine.

 

Side-quests? Sorries, New Vegas is still top dog on that front, the side-content not only is numerous, there are almost always multiple ways to solve the quests unlike TW3 where you either hit things, find things with Detective Mod- Witcher Senses, or use Axii in conversations once in a blue moon. Or sometimes the multiple outcomes are actually detrimental to the player, such as allowing Hattori to continue making dumplings.

 

Main Story? Planescape: Torment takes this award, and by far. TW3 isn't even in on the competition. Admitedly, Bioware games aren't that high on that front either, but still. Jade Empire was pretty good here.

 

Combat? TW3 is middle of the pack. The first two games were even lower. I have a few favorites here, but the recent RPG with the best combat IMO was Pillars Of Eternity. I also actually enjoyed DA:O and Mass Effect 3 a lot on that aspect.

 

RPG mechanics and progression system? When my level 1 Geralt plays almost the same as my currently level 42 one save a few potions? Please. I've seen action games with a more developped progression system. New Vegas also wins that one, albeit Dragon Age generally does a decent job here too.

 

Character writing? Bioware runs away with that one. It's why I play their games after all. Still a good effort from CDPR, for sure, but they just can't top Bioware here.

 

Besides, the only ''bar'' I care about is mine. Even if millions of people think TW3 is the best game ever, well, I don't. It's good. Great, even. But not God's very own gift to gaming.

However, New Vegas has some very dry writing and had far too numerous quests that are generic and basic. Its far better than Bethesda, yes, and its closer to its CRPG roots, but story wise, TW3 trumps it.

 

No, The Witcher passes Bioware in characterization, at least on the Dragon Age side of things. Bloody Baron alone takes out all the cast in DAI.

 

Does TW3 have to raise the bar in all areas? No it doesn't and it didn't. However, it raised the bar to where quests can no longer be MMO type kill or fetch or fedex filler, which DAI was for most of the playtime. and this is one reason why head to head, Fallout 4 lost to The Witcher 3.

[Dr. rotinaj]

How is Avallach honorable? What makes you think he is not doing it for self interest.

 

Any Elder Blood could stop the White Frost, Ciri was the last in the line.

 

Radovids distrust for mages was foreshadowed in the first game

 

He is pretty much always 100% honest with you, no trickery as would be expected from him.

 

Ciri's was never viewed as a saviour. Her offspring was the only thing people cared about.

 

I know that. What I said was that the distrust didn't foreshadow his insanity. 

[dreamgazer]

DAI got awards recognition because 2014 was a very weak year in gaming.

2015 wasn't all that hot, either. Three of its heaviest hitters, Fallout 4, Halo 5, and Arkham Knight, were monumental disappointments.

Shadow of Mordor, Alien: Isolation, Bayonetta 2 and Divinity: Original Sin were all better than most of the contenders in 2015, too.

[wolfsite]

The fact of the matter is games are now going to be compared to The Witcher 3 when it comes to standards. Thats a fact whether you like it or not.

No, that is your opinion that you are hitting people over the head with claiming its fact.

[Kabraxal]

Well most don't.
 
Many fans like outdated ideas, but ideas become stagnant, things change. Bars are set, and most people expect you to use that bar.
 

But it should or the franchise loses its identity. It isn't Game of Thrones. Its about The Witcher and the people he cares about. TW2 does a poor job in relation to this, and I can say TW1 does as well. Indeed the new characters are well written, but so is the book characters. For example, Regis.
 
The fact of the matter is games are now going to be compared to The Witcher 3 when it comes to standards. Thats a fact whether you like it or not.

Typical... Just repeated the empty jargon without actually dealing with any points brought up. Why can't you and Dutch actually respond with a thought out and truly engaging response that invites reasonable discussion? Don't think you can handle responses that actually deconstruct the messianic aura of TW3 and the beliefs around it? Instead of being like the typical Witcher fan/Bioware basher on this forum, can you actually put up a defense when challenged...