638 réponses à ce sujet

[Shechinah]

So fine, I'll stop. I'll let the yes-men surround the community and waste my 20's.

So be it.

 

You accused someone of not having played the game because they had a different opinion of it than you: I cannot see how you would have any moral high ground about feeling like your opinion is being dismissed or going unheard.

 

That a number of people have different opinions than you and a number of others do not mean this community is or is going to be composed of yes-men and it is quite frankly insulting to say such in a discussion especially when some of the people that you are impying to be yes-men are people who have recently directed criticism towards Bioware.

[Seraphim24]

Andrahmada

[Kabraxal]

So fine, I'll stop. I'll let the yes-men surround the community and waste my 20's.
So be it.

Yes. We are ruining your twenties because we found TW3 to not be amazing and like Inquisition better.

Crying out loud you go on about "detail" in TW3 and miss the dact that Inquisition has just as much detail and much better integration of lore into that detail and world design. The Shard quest, the most derided I think, has such little design details that I could make the same argument you just did... For Inquisition.

[DreamerM]

Whatever they do, they need to give the ending the focus it deserves. Don't shaft it to prevent "leaks" like last time.

[Steelcan]

Yes. We are ruining your twenties because we found TW3 to not be amazing and like Inquisition better.
Crying out loud you go on about "detail" in TW3 and miss the dact that Inquisition has just as much detail and much better integration of lore into that detail and world design. The Shard quest, the most derided I think, has such little design details that I could make the same argument you just did... For Inquisition.

you can stuff your fingers in your ears and shout "lalalalalala can't hear you" all you want, doesn't change the fact that TW3 wiped the floor with DA:I in terms of side missions and lore integration

[Dread-Reaper]

Most of them were also disconnected from the main quest; why is Geralt bothering to fetch some woman's frying pan when he believes Ciri could be in mortal danger as of right now? Sure, it had some humorous dialog, and tied into Thaler's mission so wasn't a waste of time at all. Yet Inquisition actually explained why the Inquisitor would even bother with such things, even if the quests themselves were often less interesting. 

The frying pan quest happens in White Orchard and before Geralt even knew Ciri had returned.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Aahh, I get it now. You're evaluating based on CHOICES available within the side quests.

I'm evaluating based on the presentation of the side quests and the diversity in how they were written. Each side quest in tw3 didn't have unique choices, that is true. However, each had
1 different characters with different designs
2 different animations. Each side quest or contract is uniquely cinematic, separately staged and blocked. Different lengths, different cut scenes, different settings.
3 sometimes you don't kill the monster. You could lift the curse, etc

So, no, there wasn't a lot of role play. I think the players who praise tw3 side quests just take the quality of presentation, unique settings, uniquely directed and animated NPCs, very seriously.

 

OK, on that front, yeah CDPR did great. No arguments here, and they continue in Blood and Wine. But I feel that presentation is a coat of paint. A shiny coat of paint is good, and your car probably looks bad if it's unpainted, but ultimately it's what's under said paint that matters most to me. Mechanically, the side-quests of TW3 and DAI aren't all that different. Sure, I'd definitely have done without shard hunting in DA:I, but the mundane TW3 teasure hunts were basically never worth it after level 14 since Witcher gear sets were strictly superior to everything else, as well as the only good looking gear to me. Much of the map's busywork was also made moot, giving you so little rewards (either meaningless amounts of XP or a pittance of loot) that the only thing actually worth your time was liberating occupied settlements, which at least gave you an extra merchant, some XP, and sometimes a fast travel point I think.

 

Whereas even in Inquisition, Power was valuable until the very endgame, and Influence was always valuable, so you had reasons to do the side content. it did lack the proper context and polish, and they should fix that in Andromeda and DA4, that much is true. But both studios have failed to reach the mechanical depth that made New Vegas special in my eyes.

[Seraphim24]

OK, on that front, yeah CDPR did great. No arguments here, and they continue in Blood and Wine. But I feel that presentation is a coat of paint. A shiny coat of paint is good, and your car probably looks bad if it's unpainted, but ultimately it's what's under said paint that matters most to me. Mechanically, the side-quests of TW3 and DAI aren't all that different. Sure, I'd definitely have done without shard hunting in DA:I, but the mundane TW3 teasure hunts were basically never worth it after level 14 since Witcher gear sets were strictly superior to everything else, as well as the only good looking gear to me. Much of the map's busywork was also made moot, giving you so little rewards (either meaningless amounts of XP or a pittance of loot) that the only thing actually worth your time was liberating occupied settlements, which at least gave you an extra merchant, some XP, and sometimes a fast travel point I think.

 

Whereas even in Inquisition, Power was valuable until the very endgame, and Influence was always valuable, so you had reasons to do the side content. it did lack the proper context and polish, and they should fix that in Andromeda and DA4, that much is true. But both studios have failed to reach the mechanical depth that made New Vegas special in my eyes.

 

All the paint you need.

[Steelcan]

Where are we going to draw the line between filler content and side content?

Sure we can all agree that fetch quests don't count, but id be loath to exclude all of the Witcher contracts as true side missions, then there's the Skellige monarchy ones, assassination of Radovid, those are basically main plotline stuff that's extra.

Inquisition just simply doesn't have content on that scale.

[Hazegurl]

both feel disconnect after knowing how the game ending and knowing what happen to Geralt.

I think it depends on when you do them.  I think HoS works after the Kaer Morhen battle while everyone is back in Novigrad preparing for the battle.  During this time, everyone is off doing their own thing so I can see Geralt taking a contract or two for the purposes of gathering materials for potions, bombs et al and ending up getting the Frog Prince contract.

 

Blood and Wine definitely takes place after the entire game is done. There is just too much dialogue that points to this being the case.  The main game epilogue (If you pick Triss) is that Geralt continues to work as a Witcher from time to time so it makes sense that he may come across the message from an old friend and meet with them.  Triss also points out that she came from Kovir

Spoiler

when she visits Geralt at the end

 

IMO, Citadel works best after the main game.  I have a hard time believing the gang would be partying and having fun while the Reapers are melting people into Reaper goo. So I like to finish the game with MEHEM then do the Citadel DLC and pretend Anderson is dead and just leaving his apartment to Shepard in his video Will.  Then I just don't return to the ship after the dlc is done. I end it right after talking to everyone the next morning.

[Kabraxal]

you can stuff your fingers in your ears and shout "lalalalalala can't hear you" all you want, doesn't change the fact that TW3 wiped the floor with DA:I in terms of side missions and lore integration

And another one that can only yell empty statements without backing it up... tell me how cut and paste village shows lore integration. Tell me how random question mark junk is even attempted to be explained why it is there and always surrounded by monsters. Tell me how the hunts actually had resulted and noticeable marks on the area you get the quests from and not just quest generators. If such generic quest generation is godly, then all RPGs are divine.

Let's face it, you have no ground to stand on. Hell, the vaunted Baron quest is almost the only one routinely raised and yer that is forced in order to proceed in the main quest. You keep screaming "TW3 does it better!" But I have yet to see an actual reason mentioned to defend it. It all boils diwn to "well... Uh... I liked it so it is fact these quests ae godly". And I am sick if the noisiest TW fans continually bleating about the quests and continually failing to back it up.

[Seraphim24]

For me it's all about characters that don't take crap from people or act fake nice or whatever... like I was thinking about Bloodrayne the other day Rayne just kind of tears into people and just kind of has this pure emotional expression that is very appealing.

 

Geralt is toned down from that, he's level and calm, but he's also like got that genuine disapproval of sort of the "system" floating around that fears sincere and not feigned. Geralt really does just hate the monotony and stupidity of modern politics, he has like a real instinct for understanding people and desires, frustrations, fears, etc. That makes him sexy and appealing.

 

DA:I characters except for maybe Cass and Dorian were all pretty plastic and fake empathetic, they'd regale you with deep histories and tell you all about the peculiar logic animating an old stone with an inscription on it, but they don't look to why that stone was placed there or the circumstances surrounding it to understand it's purpose. They can show off how many people "they know" at court but have virtually no one to talk to when it counts, and instead manifests in this sense that you have to talk to them because they need you so badly to do so.

 

It's not my business to try and make people in the DA:I category feel as bad as possible about themselves, but it's not hard to see how things evolved as they did.

[Sanunes]

Where are we going to draw the line between filler content and side content?

Sure we can all agree that fetch quests don't count, but id be loath to exclude all of the Witcher contracts as true side missions, then there's the Skellige monarchy ones, assassination of Radovid, those are basically main plotline stuff that's extra.

Inquisition just simply doesn't have content on that scale.

 

The way I understand a lot of comments about various games unless a quest or mission is required to progress the game it is a side quest or filler content.

[Seraphim24]

To be honest, I think the frustration has more to do with the fact that a lot of fans vaguely sense that Bioware is like "superior" with ME and NWN and all these flashy franchises, so therefore every game Bioware makes should be better than everything else and when it doesn't something needs to be fixed to make that way. For what it's worth I agree with that sentiment, I'd rather play NWN or BG than TW3 but TW3 was quite amazing of course still.

 

Well hate to break it to you but that was Bioware then, you know, the one which had all those people that are now gone due to harassment and such. TW3 had no trouble riding over the corpse of a marginally exploded company (which of course seems basically stable now)

 

You guys may have had the golden egg, but (some) of you guys totally broke it.

 

Anyway, it's still a super shiny silver egg, so that should be worth something.

[AtreiyaN7]

Are they? Who says? At the very least we have many fans who don't even see why we should take notes from Witcher 3. No Twitter vibes or PR from Bioware acknowledging the numerous things we're pointing out except one Bioware exec said they heard about our complaints about fetch quests.

For some people, Thedas is the most intriguing game world out there, and perhaps the most valuable and important fictional means of escape in our lives. I've followed it for years...a very important number of years defining my 20's and I'll never have my 20's back again.

The stakes are high.

 

Sorry, but what do you think the devs are doing, exactly? Sitting around all day and twiddling their thumbs while completely ignoring reality? Just because they're not spilling details on everything they've done and have kept things pretty much under wraps for a long time doesn't mean that they've ignored the voluminous amounts of feedback from everyone on ME3 or DA:I.

 

I'm fairly certain that unless all the devs live under rocks, they're actually aware of everyone's dissatisfaction with certain aspects of DA:I and the general disdain with which most people view generic fetch quests, along with all the other stuff (hairstyles still being crap, the ending of DA:I being too abrupt in some ways, wanting better UIs, not liking how DA:I handled via KBM controls, etc., etc. - I could go on, but I won't).

 

Now I don't like boring, poorly thought-out fetch quests that amount to crappy filler either. I also - after having read about ten million of these kinds of threads in the DA:I forums - just don't think the world needs yet another thread containing yet another essay/ode to TW3. This has been hashed out multiple times now in the DA:I forums specifically (and I spent a good long time there reading and posting regularly until things ran their course and I lost interest - you can really only read the same things so many times...).

 

Also, as far as I'm concerned, saying that the stakes are high is a bit melodramatic. The stakes are only as high as they've always been for BW itself: the company needs to produce a good product that is well received or the company won't make money, as has always been the case. I think they're aware that they've disappointed a number of fans over x/y/z in recent games, so if they've been smart, they'll have listened to the fans (about issues with actual merit to them) and will have - one would hope - addressed as many of those concerns as they can.

 

Now your personal time commitment and whatever importance you personally place on the time you spent on <x> franchise only means that the stakes are inordinately high for you because you are so invested in the game. I'm a DA fan, a BG fan, a KOTOR fan, a JE fan, and an ME fan. I'm not going to get my 20s or my 30s back at this point, but I also don't feel like it means that the stakes are somehow higher for me just because I chose to invest a whole lot of my time in playing BW games and/or posting about them and really, really like all of the characters and the worlds involved.

 

FYI, I have spent what may well be hundreds of hours on every single one of their games. I think I even spent around 280 hours on SP in DA:I alone (around 220 hours on my current computer and around 60 on my old computer before it died). I spent over 200 hours on DA:O (it's been a while) and the expansion, plus a fair bit of time in DA2 (not nearly as much as the other two games).

 

If they succeed and have paid attention to the feedback, then good - I'll be happy about it if BW has addressed past flaws in ME:A. If they fail, then I'll be moderately disappointed with them and move on to something else. I get being passionate about a series (I have been quite vocal in the assorted DA forums in the past and the ME forums), but there's being passionate and there's being way, waaaaay too personally invested in a franchise. I saw people acting like complete nutcases over the ME3 endings, and yeah, it seems like those people were invested to a decidedly unhealthy degree.

[Drakoriz]

To be honest, I think the frustration has more to do with the fact that a lot of fans vaguely sense that Bioware is like "superior" with ME and NWN and all these flashy franchises, so therefore every game Bioware makes should be better than everything else and when it doesn't something needs to be fixed to make that way. For what it's worth I agree with that sentiment, I'd rather play NWN or BG than TW3 but TW3 was quite amazing of course still.

 

Well hate to break it to you but that was Bioware then, you know, the one which had all those people that are now gone due to harassment and such. TW3 had no trouble riding over the corpse of a marginally exploded company (which of course seems basically stable now)

 

You guys may have had the golden egg, but (some) of you guys totally broke it.

 

Anyway, it's still a super shiny silver egg, so that should be worth something.

 

but again is a opinion, i prefer replay ME2-3 (sorry ME 1 Mako part make me want to shoot myself) that playing Witcher 2-3 again.

 

I love seeing my character grow from game to game, while i really didnt see any grow from geralt he still is the same person. And really the Geralt from Wticher 3 feel super disconnect from the guy i was playing on Witcher 1 or 2.

[Seraphim24]

but again is a opinion, i prefer replay ME2-3 (sorry ME 1 Mako part make me want to shoot myself) that playing Witcher 2-3 again.

 

I love seeing my character grow from game to game, while i really didnt see any grow from geralt he still is the same person. And really the Geralt from Wticher 3 feel super disconnect from the guy i was playing on Witcher 1 or 2.

 

Yep, it's my opinion, for whatever reason my opinions are always determined to be correct ultimately...

[Drakoriz]

Yep, it's my opinion, for whatever reason my opinions are always determined to be correct ultimately...

 

i know you trying to be fun,  but this states is what make ppl hate Witcher 3 fans.

[Hazegurl]

actually is a combination of the soft porn the game come with. =D fan of the witcher 3 love soft porn

You do know you can get through the entire game without having sex with anyone, right?

 

 

I love seeing my character grow from game to game, while i really didnt see any grow from geralt he still is the same person. And really the Geralt from Wticher 3 feel super disconnect from the guy i was playing on Witcher 1 or 2.

 

I disagree, I think your choices determine whether or not Geralt is a different man from the earlier game or even the books, if you choose to see it that way.  Geralt is a known womanizer, don't want him to be then stop banging all the women and hookers in the game.  I had Geralt choose Triss as his LI because he was over Yennefer although he obviously still cared for Yen.  I played him as a person who was changed by his memory loss and after regaining his memories he wasn't quite the same.   I think there is supposed to be a bit of a disconnect int he character because you're playing a Geralt who had all his memories back in TW3.  

[Drakoriz]

You do know you can get through the entire game without having sex with anyone, right?

 

yeah i know i was making fun of the previews coment

[Laughing_Man]

Well hate to break it to you but that was Bioware then, you know, the one which had all those people that are now gone due to harassment and such. TW3 had no trouble riding over the corpse of a marginally exploded company (which of course seems basically stable now)

 

You guys may have had the golden egg, but (some) of you guys totally broke it.

 

So the guys that left Bioware did it due to harassment? That's news to me. Source?

 

Blaming anything on a few mean comments on the internet, no matter if it's in relation to video games or other topics, is taking the coward's way out.

The internet exists, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, and you can't stop the more negative aspects of it either.

(and let's not pretend that those negative aspects are even close to being exclusive to gaming communities, they exist everywhere)

 

I personally never communicated directly with anyone that works at Bioware, I may have responded once to a comment by Gaider on this forum, but that's about it. Your "you guys" is criminally lazy in its inaccuracy.

 

As for TW3, it may not be THE perfect game, but it is certainly a game good enough to give EAware a run for their money on its own merits, and indeed it did. It's just better in most categories than EAware latest offerings both in quality and interesting content per dollar.

 

 

In fact, instead of continuing to read here, I'm going back to enjoy the latest expansion of TW3. Much more fun.

[Morty Smith]

EAPlay will show what we can expect from ME:A and if it's even suited to be let through the castle gate.

 

Spoiler

[Hazegurl]

yeah i know i was making fun of the previews coment

Oh lol!

[Hazegurl]

The whole climax and epilogue of TW3 is a tonally confused mess. Dikijstra also goes bipolar and whenever you're around Triss it switches to this overly sweet lovey-dovey romance tone, as if I'm watching a romantic comedy. 

 

She's too sweet and soft in TW3. She was more of a hardass in the second game while still being girly and sexy and I liked that a lot more.

 

We suck at handling tone in the north, trust me, I'm a dane myself. We make the worst movies I have ever seen.

I agree, but then again I hated the whole Wild Hunt thing, it got to a point where it didn't make much sense to me because they took out some of the darker aspects from the books, such as Emphyr wanting to sire an heir with his own daughter and the Wild Hunt wanting Ciri for breeding.  Without those aspects, I couldn't understand why Allavach couldn't have just told his people she could end the White Frost and they prepare her to do that or something.

 

I also like TW2 Triss more.  I think CDPR tried to do this contrast between Triss and Yen.  Because Yen was a hardass Triss had to be almost sickening sweet. I wish they hadn't went that route but I still like Triss in comparison.

[Cyonan]

So what I'm getting from this thread is that, according to the books, the primary reason anybody but Geralt wants to find Ciri is for dat booty.