638 réponses à ce sujet

[txgoldrush]

TW3 is one of the best gaming experiences I've had since.. well, the Mass Effect trilogy. However, I just have to address a few things:

 

1. BioWare change their formula in just about every single game, so the claim that they "don't change" and that's where they're (supposedly) failing, doesn't really work. True, the written characters and romance mechanics remain traditional aspects of BioWare in every single game, but they're all different. In fact, I believe this is one of their greater qualities (though many people disagree). It means with each game there is something a little different and one never gets bored.

 

2. TW3 has amazing storytelling. It's also very impressive with the amount of content that CDPR has given us. I am on my second playthrough (I've yet to play the expansions due to having issues with my console that wiped my saves) and I don't know whether I'm just impatient and eager to play the new content, but it's getting a bit too overwhelming. I'm also noticing a lot of filler that really doesn't need to be there. The upside to that is, actual effort was put into said filler, as opposed to DAI's simple side quests. All I'm saying is, there is an aspect of grinding. For instance, if you want the best equipment, you have to do those treasure hunts. They are irritating as [CENSORED] when you just wanna get on with the game.

 

3. I'll also parrot what others have said elsewhere on this thread. The combat is very repetitive too. True, blue, green and red witchers differ but at the end of the day, it is still repetitive.

 

And lastly, your thread is merely an opinion. Don't pass it off as fact, please. A lot of people preferred DAI and the ME trilogy to TW3. BW gives players the options of being creative and customizing their character, which is something the Witcher lacks due to being based on a set protagonist. All of the Witcher lore was taken from the book series, where as BW created the world of Dragon Age and Mass Effect on their own. Based on that fact alone many people here won't play the Witcher series. It was very easy for CDPR to put the extra effort into the quest and world around them because (aside from interactions with other NPCs) they only had to focus on Geralt.

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

 

And no, Bioware follows the same Mad Libs Formula for the stories of their games. Regarding narrative, they are formulaic. There was that famous Bioware Cliche chart that someone made up years ago. They still fill it out. DA2 averts it for the most part and ME3 subverts it sometimes(but that still follows the cliche).

 

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

[AlanC9]

They didn't try new things, they rehashed and old idea and did even worse than when the idea was pioneered. They did it because it was popular, instead of trying new things that are in the spirit of the franchise, like what Obsidian did with New Vegas.

And really, what I wanted Bioware to do is go back to the type of storytelling that they did with DA2 and ME3, that TW3 really did well with, and expand and bring new ideas to that.

Ah, that makes more sense. If you don't actually want Bio to ever try new stuff, that makes a "never make mistakes" directive a lot more coherent. I couldn't see how you were combining the two.

It'd even be realistic if we were talking about a different company. But Bio? Bio changes stuff all the time. Always has, always will.

[txgoldrush]

Ah, that makes more sense. If you don't actually want Bio to ever try new stuff, that makes a "never make mistakes" directive a lot more coherent. I couldn't see how you were combining the two.

It'd even be realistic if we were talking about a different company. But Bio? Bio changes stuff all the time. Always has, always will.

And Bioware recycles stuff as well.

 

Bioware overhauls the gameplay, but recycles its narrative ideas.

[10K]

Ah, that makes more sense. If you don't actually want Bio to ever try new stuff, that makes a "never make mistakes" directive a lot more coherent. I couldn't see how you were combining the two.

It'd even be realistic if we were talking about a different company. But Bio? Bio changes stuff all the time. Always has, always will.

Have to agree. mechanics; game to game usually change with every installment.

[AlanC9]

And Bioware recycles stuff as well.

Bioware overhauls the gameplay, but recycles its narrative ideas.

Yep. So, you're complaining that Bio kept some stuff and tried new stuff, but it was the wrong stuff? And they should have been able to look into the future and see that they should have changed the other stuff instead?

[Kapilux]

Witcher 3 is the worst in the series though. It has way too much of this repetitive and extremely boring "modern open world" style crap gameplay. It starts off great (mostly because of the very good writing) but gets really boring about half way through.

[Drakoriz]

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

 

And no, Bioware follows the same Mad Libs Formula for the stories of their games. Regarding narrative, they are formulaic. There was that famous Bioware Cliche chart that someone made up years ago. They still fill it out. DA2 averts it for the most part and ME3 subverts it sometimes(but that still follows the cliche).

 

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

 

dude you really need to go and look what a opinion and what a fact is on the dictionary, bc you say it doesnt make it real.

 

Stop trying to force your opinions as facts.

[Malanek]

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

There is lots of stuff you have written that I disagree with, but I think this is fair criticism. It has been done in DAO, DAI and ME3 which is incidentally most stories which involve an open war. It really could do with a change.

[Drakoriz]

There is lots of stuff you have written that I disagree with, but I think this is fair criticism. It has been done in DAO, DAI and ME3 which is incidentally most stories which involve an open war. It really could do with a change.

 

well but in that regard Witcher 3 main quest isnt original either. Normally most video games use cliche type of stories, they just add some new factors but over all they keep using cliches.

[Malanek]

well but in that regard Witcher 3 main quest isnt original either. Normally most video games use cliche type of stories, they just add some new factors but over all they keep using cliches.

I haven't played Witcher 3 so it is difficult to comment. I may get around to it because I am bored with current games, but I suspect I won't like it. I liked, but didn't love, TW2 mainly because of the story, branching narrative that actually branched, and the characters. The gameplay was however pretty average. I tend to not like slow paced, open world games, especially when they are coupled with poor gameplay and TW3 does not impress me with what I have seen and heard.

[Drakoriz]

I haven't played Witcher 3 so it is difficult to comment. I may get around to it because I am bored with current games, but I suspect I won't like it. I liked, but didn't love, TW2 mainly because of the story, branching narrative that actually branched, and the characters. The gameplay was however pretty average. I tend to not like slow paced, open world games, especially when they are coupled with poor gameplay and TW3 does not impress me with what I have seen and heard.

 

i can related to that i force myself to finish Witcher 3 to see the ending of the story, but the gameplay make me want to stop over and over. 

[KaiserShep]

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

 

 

Popular opinion is still opinion. 

[Cyonan]

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

 

And no, Bioware follows the same Mad Libs Formula for the stories of their games. Regarding narrative, they are formulaic. There was that famous Bioware Cliche chart that someone made up years ago. They still fill it out. DA2 averts it for the most part and ME3 subverts it sometimes(but that still follows the cliche).

 

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

 

Fact would be that some people thought The Witcher 3 was a better game. Even if you could somehow prove the majority of people liked TW3 more the fact would still only be "the majority of people liked TW3 more", not that it was objectively the better game. Note that I say that as somebody who does actually think that TW3 was a better game than DA:I.

 

Pretty much as soon as you say something is better that's an opinion. It is by definition an opinion that The Witcher 3 is a better game than Big Rigs Over the Road Racing or ET for the Atari that is often credited with crashing the video game industry because of how bad it was. It's an opinion that a lot of people are bound to share, but an opinion all the same.

 

Also as amusing as the cliche chart is as a picture and as much as they do re-use quite a few elements, it does actually stretch things in a number of cases.

[Donk]

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

And no, Bioware follows the same Mad Libs Formula for the stories of their games. Regarding narrative, they are formulaic. There was that famous Bioware Cliche chart that someone made up years ago. They still fill it out. DA2 averts it for the most part and ME3 subverts it sometimes(but that still follows the cliche).

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

Not everybody agrees with that though. Even if it's the most popular opinion, it is still an opinion.

As for the latter part, TW3 followed a similar line. What did the game consist of, aside from searching for Ciri? To get what Geralt wanted, he had to do everyone a favour. I.e helping the bloody Baron out with his family issues. Helping Dijkstra find his treasure, helping Crach an Craite and his children.. So by the end of it he was able to ask them for help when he found Ciri and took her to Kaer Morhen. What happens next? They all unite to help fight off the Wild Hunt.

[Lady Artifice]

How is The Witcher 3 being looked at is superior to Dragon Age Inquisition an opinion? it isn't....it was. The Mass Effect Trilogy is tougher to tell, it usually isn't compared, but DAI. TW3 crushed it in acclaim.

 

And no, Bioware follows the same Mad Libs Formula for the stories of their games. Regarding narrative, they are formulaic. There was that famous Bioware Cliche chart that someone made up years ago. They still fill it out. DA2 averts it for the most part and ME3 subverts it sometimes(but that still follows the cliche).

 

For example, how many times do we have to unite the setting to take out the Bad? They are really stuck on this cliche.

 

 

The idea that the popularity of a belief makes it true is a fallacy called argumentum ad populum. It's famously bad logic, and it is way, way too frequently resorted to in comparisons between games. 

 

Beliefs about the relative value of any piece of art will always be opinion, because they will never be beyond dispute. 

[Gengisgame]

I think we need to remember that Bioware isn't a person, that it was individual writers that made the games I enjoyed and many of those people have probably left.

 

Could new team members make the games I enjoyed or games I enjoy even more, of course but that doesn't look like the case from DAI.

 

You should probably treat current Bioware like a new company, not like the makers of those games you use to like

[txgoldrush]

The idea that the popularity of a belief makes it true is a fallacy called argumentum ad populum. It's famously bad logic, and it is way, way too frequently resorted to in comparisons between games. 

 

Beliefs about the relative value of any piece of art will always be opinion, because they will never be beyond dispute. 

No, stating That The Witcher 3 is better received is pure fact and true. It is a factual statement. Saying TW3 is better because its more popular is AAP, but saying it was better received is not.

 

Not everybody agrees with that though. Even if it's the most popular opinion, it is still an opinion.

As for the latter part, TW3 followed a similar line. What did the game consist of, aside from searching for Ciri? To get what Geralt wanted, he had to do everyone a favour. I.e helping the bloody Baron out with his family issues. Helping Dijkstra find his treasure, helping Crach an Craite and his children.. So by the end of it he was able to ask them for help when he found Ciri and took her to Kaer Morhen. What happens next? They all unite to help fight off the Wild Hunt.

Only the Bloody Baron and to a point Djikstra, you have to help, and you don't have to help fully. You do not have to help Crach and his children at all and Birna Bran will win, with her son taking the throne. The rest of the info on Ciri is gotten through plot such as the rescue of Dandelion. And the story wraps back to the Bloody Baron anyway because he has Uma.

 

And Crach and Djikstra also have past history with Geralt.

 

But that is a very small part of Act II, unlike Bioware games, which they have you uniting the setting the entire game.

[wolfsite]

Well I came back after some sleep and see that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS CHANGED since I went to bed.

[Chealec]

It's closer to the foundation of the story than the backdrop. All three entries rely on the political landscape to put plot wheels in motion. 

 

And yes, Witcher 2 really emphasized those political machinations, and it's a vastly superior story and game because of it. 

 

I actually think TW2 is the worst in the trilogy - mostly because I hate forced boss fights and QTEs (the Kayren totally sucked arse) - but also the whole of Act 2 is kinda dull if you side with the Scoia'tael.

 

However, I also think ME2 was a missed opportunity; the whole killing off of Shepard as a plot device to create the second coming of Space Jesus to unite a rag-tag band of misfits (and provide free psychotherapy for them) so they can go beat up on some giant zombie space bugs - *just* to give the galaxy less time to prepare for the main event (you know, there's that Reaper invasion thing on the way). The whole of ME2 is one giant side-quest. Fantastic characters and dialogue though.

 

 

In my opinion, comparing games in the same series:

 

DAO > DA2 (never played DAI)

 

ME3 (if you quit after the Citadel DLC, just before Priority Earth) > ME2 > ME1

(ME1 would be better than ME2 if it had similar combat mechanics but it feels kinda clunky now)

 

TW3 > TW1 > TW2

[Gileadan]

Well I came back after some sleep and see that ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAS CHANGED since I went to bed.

It's BSN. Our adversity towards change and our inability to handle it has been certified for years now.

[UpUpAway]

It's BSN. Our adversity towards change and our inability to handle it has been certified for years now.

 

Perhaps, but in this sense, the time for making sweeping changes to ME:A is long past.  It was past even before TW3 was released.  How TW3 was received and what it "hit" with are fodder for planning the game after ME:A... and then the trick is to predict what even further, more innovative changes that might "hit" with the public 3 or 4 years from now.

 

If Bioware reacts to TW3's success by changing their game plan at this point, they are, most likely, just going to make the game less consistent, more buggy, etc. in the process.  There were certain "signs" out there back 3 years ago that people wanted better integration of side quests.  The developers of TW3 obviously picked up on that and incorporated it into their game plan for TW3 (and they met with well earned success as a result).   We don't know yet what Bioware picked up on back then when they started to plan ME:A... so they may have done (on their own) something similar already.

 

We fans need to chill a little, stop shooting our own expectations down into to the dirt out of fear of being "disappointed" and just give Bioware some time to properly polish ME:A... so that they can give us their best effort.  Then, and only then, can we appraise ME:A on it's own merits and, if we want, compare it to other games.

[JPVNG]

TW1 isn t even playable.Mass Effect game trilogy has set up a new padron for quality.In everything.

[Lady Artifice]

No, stating That The Witcher 3 is better received is pure fact and true. It is a factual statement. Saying TW3 is better because its more popular is AAP, but saying it was better received is not.

 

 

Exactly. Declaring one thing more popular than another can be proven with numbers and evidence. It's only an issue when you claim that the first thing is factually superior, and then cite popularity as the reason why. 

[Gwydden]

What was the point of these fandom wars again?

 

I mean, I get we all want to prove our opinion is the right one (because of course it is). And I know that this is a discussion forum and all, and arguing is kind of the point. But I think is extraordinarily clear by now that almost every conversation involving The Witcher is bound to end in disaster, what with CDPR fanboys acting like it's the second coming and Bioware fanboys acting like it's absolute garbage.

 

It's pretty much just a shouting match at this point, right? So every time someone makes a thread about TW around here, I can't help but suspect that either they're trolling and looking to start a flamewar, or they're just really itching to bash Bioware and rub it in by comparing them to another, currently more financially successful developer. If the OP wants a genuine discussion, it would be best to leave TW out of it. If absolutely necessary, it should be handled with far more care than he has shown.

 

Frankly, I can see why people are concerned. I'm someone who absolutely didn't like DAI, and I think it's reasonable that others that feel like me are also worried about how MEA will turn out. I suspect that concern is largely responsible for these threads.

[azarhal]

 

If Bioware reacts to TW3's success by changing their game plan at this point,

 

and do what? Better animations, level design, scene direction and mission integration?

 

Because outside of that, TW3 is a mix of what people complained about in Bioware games since 2010:

- auto-dialog 90% of the time

- too much MMOish content and auto-granted quests (treasure hunting, none-main quests monster contracts, monster nests, free the captured trader, etc)

- simplified character building

- large empty maps with respawning stuff that annoyingly aggro you when you travel around

- limited RPG dialogue options

- "companions" only talks to you in quests and certain point in the games, not when you wants to.

- forced "companions" for certain quests

- twitch action combat

- tacked on open world

- a personal story instead of save the world one (see DA2)