32 réponses à ce sujet

[simonrana]

I'm trying out paragrade for the first time so I suspect that when it comes to the Miranda/Jack conflict I'm not going to be able to keep the loyalty of both for once.

Whilst plotting how to manage that in the SM it occurred to me that maybe it's best for her to get killed by rocks after deciding to destroy the collector base on this and perhaps all my future playthroughs.

I quite like Miranda in ME2 but her part in ME3 is just awful. She keeps banging on about her sister in all 3 acts without any sense of perspective (does she not realize it is literally "End Of Days"?!)

And the big confrontation towards the end feels really lacking if she lives (and makes the subsequent Tali-drunk scene really weird). But if you let her die in 3 then that's another "score" for Kai Leng, which also feels unacceptable!

So I'm thinking that her finally turning against TIM at the end of 2 and then dying redeemed is the best solution all round.

Thoughts?

P.S I believe in Virmiring Ashley for similar reasons. Are really great character in 1 gets utterly butchered in 3.

[cap and gown]

If you think Ashley got butchered in ME3 (I don't) then certainly I can see killing Miranda. Miranda really suffered in ME3 for the reasons you point out; much more so than Ashley.

[ArcadiaGrey]

I personally dislike Jacob's character in ME3, so this time round he was taken off by the Collector swarm in the SM and I'm looking forward to his absence.  

I may do that every time I play tbh. 

 

If you don't like a character's writing in ME3 then why not?  I did just that in my first ME2/3 run, getting Miranda to leave Cerberus.  My Shep felt happy he'd had a positive effect on her, only for her to die as he'd sided with Jack.

 

You can probably work the system, with good timing and talent upgrades you may be able to paragon the conflict between the two.  If you want to that is.

[simonrana]

Nah, it's hard enough getting myself to not automatically hunt all the paragon/renegade points as it is!

I have to keep reminding myself I've already played this a billion times and so am better off seeing non-optimal results for a change just to mix things up.

[UpUpAway]

Nah, it's hard enough getting myself to not automatically hunt all the paragon/renegade points as it is!

I have to keep reminding myself I've already played this a billion times and so am better off seeing non-optimal results for a change just to mix things up.

 

This is the challenge actually... convincing oneself to make decisions that we know will result in a death or non-optimal results... but it is worth it.  One less emotional way to practically ensure a non-optimal results is to do a speed run, then do a more planned non-optimal run right afterwards.  After the "disastrous" speed run, the other non-optimal run just really seems like a step up (as opposed to a step down after doing a run where everyone lives, etc.)

[Tonymac]

For me, I just avoid ME3.  I still ME3 MP, just no SP at all.

[AlanC9]

Jeez, Tonymac. In which universe would that be considered a helpful response?

OP, it's your game. If you like it better with Miranda dead, then get her killed

[Jedi Comedian]

IMO better to kill everyone including Shep in ME2, skip ME3 and jump directly to ME:A when it comes out.

[aoibhealfae]

I noticed there's some similarities with Miranda and Ashley in ME3 only to realize they're both written by Jay Watamaniuk. But I don't think Miri was badly done considering I hardly saw her anyway. But her narrative would have been made even more interesting and engaging if it was revealed that the entire time her father was in cohort with The Illusive Man. Which meant Miranda was played by TIM and that she didn't fully escape her father, and she literally handed Oriana over to him in ME2 by using her Cerberus contacts. Also, she should have been made to investigate Cerberus and the implants for Shepard. None of this was massive change but it simply refocus her motivations outside the whole "my little sister is missing and I have to do it all alone". But I don't think she deserve death from weak writing which really isn't as bad as Ash but it depends on how OP feels about it anyway... using the same sentiment, I would have left Garrus to die to avoid "just like old times" when I was absolutely a dick to him in ME1.

[congokong]

I agree about Miranda in ME3. Millions are dying daily, and Miranda is just looking for her sister?!

 

It is rather difficult to kill her in ME2 though. She can only die in the last part of the suicide mission. In ME3, however, I think the developers wanted her to die. If she wasn't loyal in ME2, she dies. If you don't tell her about Kai Lang, she dies. If you break up with her, she dies. If you don't give her Alliance resources, she dies. As you mentioned, the drunk Tali scene feels very out of place if she survives. It's clearly meant for her to be dead.

 

As to your question, it's up to you. Why can't you get her loyalty after the Jack confrontation just because you're playing paragade? I've played paragade and never had any trouble. Even if you can't resolve the initial conflict neutrally, afterwards, all companions involved can be swayed to get back their loyalty.

 

[TEWR]

For me, I just avoid ME3.  I still ME3 MP, just no SP at all.

I'll single player Tuchanka and Rannoch (and their associated side quests) and Palaven's moon Menae too.

 

Hell I'll even do the DLCs. But ME3 def. didn't do the series' themes any justice.

[TEWR]

IMO better to kill everyone including Shep in ME2, skip ME3 and jump directly to ME:A when it comes out.

 

So would that be the "Reapers fall, everyone dies" scenario then?

[KaiserShep]

I agree about Miranda in ME3. Millions are dying daily, and Miranda is just looking for her sister?!

 

It is rather difficult to kill her in ME2 though. She can only die in the last part of the suicide mission. In ME3, however, I think the developers wanted her to die. If she wasn't loyal in ME2, she dies. If you don't tell her about Kai Lang, she dies. If you break up with her, she dies. If you don't give her Alliance resources, she dies. As you mentioned, the drunk Tali scene feels very out of place if she survives. It's clearly meant for her to be dead.

 

As to your question, it's up to you. Why can't you get her loyalty after the Jack confrontation just because you're playing paragade? I've played paragade and never had any trouble. Even if you can't resolve the initial conflict neutrally, afterwards, all companions involved can be swayed to get back their loyalty.

 

[snip]

 

 

The big problems for me are the breakup bit and loyalty. The fact that these things can result in her death just seriously undermine her character to me. The same goes for Zaeed. Why does he get taken out like a chump by some lousy mercenary just because he's disloyal to Shepard? Not to mention that he dies to the Citadel background theme. Shameful XD

[The One True Nobody]

As to your question, it's up to you. Why can't you get her loyalty after the Jack confrontation just because you're playing paragade? I've played paragade and never had any trouble. Even if you can't resolve the initial conflict neutrally, afterwards, all companions involved can be swayed to get back their loyalty.

 

 

ME2 handles these persuade/intimidate options in a stupid way. The score requirement is determined by how many city areas you've visited. Legion is late-game so you probably have visited all four cities, and you have to visit at least Illium and Omega to do Miranda's mission but by that point in the game you probably visited the Citadel already; you may have also visited Tuchanka. Jack/Miranda is something best done at least before you go to Tuchanka.

 

What's stupid about this is that there's no real restriction on visiting the Citadel early on and Illium is mandatory for the Miranda/Jack conflict. To make it easy, you have to intentionally avoid the Citadel (and Kasumi, and all of the shops), and you have to intentionally avoid Tuchanka, which is less of a wrench but still pretty metagamey.

If you've gone to all four towns and are playing mixed alignment, then you probably just have to save one of the loyalty missions for later on in the game. Note: for Miranda and Jack, the Renegade dialogue choice requirement is more lenient. (The opposite is true for Tali and Legion.)

[themikefest]

It is rather difficult to kill her in ME2 though. She can only die in the last part of the suicide mission.

Not hard to have her die. I did a playthrough having her as the only death. I've had her die holding the line while being loyal and not loyal.
 

In ME3, however, I think the developers wanted her to die. If she wasn't loyal in ME2, she dies. If you don't tell her about Kai Lang, she dies. If you break up with her, she dies. If you don't give her Alliance resources, she dies.

She can still die if she is loyal, worn her about Leng and give her Alliance resources. Her life is in Shepard's hands. If Shepard's reputation isn't high enough to get the blue or red dialogue and ignores the interrupt, she will be killed. Even if the red and blue dialogue show up, Shepard can ignore the red and bliue and choose the right dialogue which leads to an interrupt that can be ignored. Her father shoots her. She dies within a few seconds
 

As to your question, it's up to you. Why can't you get her loyalty after the Jack confrontation just because you're playing paragade? I've played paragade and never had any trouble. Even if you can't resolve the initial conflict neutrally, afterwards, all companions involved can be swayed to get back their loyalty.

If I want both loyal, I do Miranda's loyal mission followed by completing Jack's loyalty mission right away. I've never had a problem with keeping both loyal doing it that way
 

The big problems for me are the breakup bit and loyalty. The fact that these things can result in her death just seriously undermine her character to me. The same goes for Zaeed. Why does he get taken out like a chump by some lousy mercenary just because he's disloyal to Shepard? Not to mention that he dies to the Citadel background theme. Shameful XD

You can add Kasumi and Grunt to the list. Even if they're in ME3 and not loyal, they still die. Pathetic

All other squadmates can die depending on what the player chooses, but the two I mentioned and the two you mentioned, die no matter what.

Legion and Thane die no matter what because  the plot demands it

[Han Shot First]

Do you have all the DLC? If so it shouldn't be hard to resolve squadmate conflicts on a parade playthrough. That was only an issue prior to DLC, where the lack of total morality points you could accumulate encouraged extreme paragon or renegade playthroughs, and penalized players who mixed it up. Of course it was a bad design decision, and a person shouldn't have to buy DLC just to play their characters how they want without running into tacked on consequences.

I prefer Miranda dying in ME3, and kept that as my personal canon. I liked that Shepard had extra personal motivation to kill Kai Leng, and prefer, "That was for Thane and Miranda you son-of-a-b;tech!" over the version that just references Thane. Plus you get scene with Tali drunkenly mourning Miranda afterwards, which I also liked.

[simonrana]

You can add Kasumi and Grunt to the list. Even if they're in ME3 and not loyal, they still die. Pathetic

What are you talking about? No they don't!

They only die in ME3 if they're not loyal. If they're lotal they both survive.

[themikefest]

What are you talking about? No they don't!

What are you talking about?
 

They only die in ME3 if they're not loyal.

Isn't that what I posted.
 

If they're lotal they both survive.

Only if the mission is completed. If not, they die. They're names will show up on the memorial wall after completing Cronos.

If the missions involving Samara, Jacob and Zaeed are not completed, they're names will appear on the wall. Zaeed's, for some reason, name will never appear on the wall. With Jack, she is killed on Cronos if Grissom isn't completed.

[simonrana]

So I got to the dispute and had the paragon and renagade options both available! What did other people do to not have these options available I wonder...

I tried out the regular "back off Miranda" option but the speech sucked. Man I really just wanted her to acknowledge that would Cerberus did to Jack was beyond messed up!

[Ieldra]

May I point you to my ME2 persuasion guide...

 

As for the general sentiment of killing Miranda because of how she was written in ME3, I can understand that but I could never do it. Best to avoid ME3 altogether, since the same applies to Shepard.

[kal_reegar]

I think tha Miranda's behaviour is perfectly normal.

 

"The reapers are coming. Within a day/month/year, I will be dead (99,999999999999% sure)".

So, I can:

- help Shepard in his mad fight against all odds (selfless 100%)

- prepare myself to die without personal regrets, with the people I love (selfish 100%)

- trying to do both things (normal person)

[UpUpAway]

Go ahead, give it a go that way and see whether or not you like it better that way.  It's your game.

[simonrana]

May I point you to my ME2 persuasion guide...

As for the general sentiment of killing Miranda because of how she was written in ME3, I can understand that but I could never do it. Best to avoid ME3 altogether, since the same applies to Shepard.

Lol, good point!

I was playing the Mordin loyalty mission last night. It made me mentally wince at the direction ME3 takes him, as it does every time!

[Unata]

I did a play through with only Miranda and Jacob being killed in ME2 and ME3 felt more inline with the past, with the exception of Oriana's email, IF you don't do Miranda's loyalty quest Oriana doesn't know about Miranda, but you get a email from her anyway, that was kind of out of place for me, wasn't really needed since your lead there by other means

 

Another thing I noticed in ME3 with this scenario, Kasumi doesn't drone on about Jacob

[Lulupab]

What's wrong with searching for your sister in "end of the days"? If anything its the best time to do so, specially when you know Cerberus has her.