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[Gwydden]

I don't know. It's gonna hard to top the Dragon Age Love Interest Riot of 2014. They had announced some of the LIs and they hadn't announced sexualities yet. It was pretty ugly and lasted for months. Some folks were so fed up with the fighting (including me) that we turned a long running Romance thread into about 5 pages of fish jokes. Nothing but fish puns and fish jokes for a few pages.

I remember Laidlaw revealed all LIs and to whom they would be available sometime before the game came out, probably for that very reason. Of course, that only led to a different kind of riot, because in the grim darkness of the BSN, there is only war.

[SKAR]

You saying I'm illuminati fam?

I see that triangle in you pic......Confirmed!!

[SKAR]

Imagine if the ME team confirmed only a few of the names (poor Josie didn't have a known name until about three months before the game landed) and a couple of the LIs. Now imagine if they didn't announce the sexualities of those LIs for about 5 months or so. Add in the BSN's...dedicated sense of passion and you can see how that ended up going horribly wrong. I think things like that are why the ME is staying so tight lipped. Even though some folks don't like it, I'd rather have big information dumps rather than being drip fed.

Back on topic, some folks in here might remember that I posted in the Lady Inquisitor Ad thread back in 2014. I was very passionate about speaking up on the subject. I'm mellower now because I felt that BioWare listened to the requests. They put a gender-neutral PC on the cover, they showed the female quizzy a lot at conventions and even little things like the benchmark test on the PC version of the game. That's why I'm not as futzed about it. Also, things in gaming have gotten better over the last couple of years for the ladies.

Shoot, I remember when I started WoW in 2005. My own mother and father (who were in a raiding guild at the time) warned me about not revealing my gender in general chat due to possible harassment. No joke; I had one guildie that was e-stalked by someone to the point where she had to switch servers and get a name change. Her mic was "broken" most of the time. I'd call it an exaggeration if I hadn't been there. However, by 2010, that wasn't really as big of an issue anymore. I was the co-GM of a raiding guild and I only got harassed once in that 6 months.

I've watched the same thing with non MMOs. There are more lady protagonists and they are getting on the cover (Remember Me, Overwatch, ect) so the industry is changing. Before anyone mentions online play, remember that many of these kids (or manchild) that live to talk crap aren't necessarily sexist. They are just trying to say whatever they can to get under your skin. I think it's actually pretty equal in that regard. Whether it be "your mom" or "pff, girls can't play," or whatever, it's the same crap.

Anyway, there is a lot of the same look for the male player characters, but for me it isn't that they are men. It's that they are very similar looking men and hasn't been much variety. BF4 is a great start, but I'd like to see more men that aren't the typical "Video Game Male Hero" look. I'd also like to see more women that aren't 36/24/36 with C cups. That also has gotten better; I'm seeing a lot more female characters of various builds and not all of them are wearing makeup. I wouldn't be the least be surprised if one of the first images of gameplay with the player character as a woman. If not, I'd more interested in the gameplay and the music anyhow.

Jesus Christ!!!!!!!! You know I'm just praying everyone in MEA is bi. That way I don't get p¡$$3d if the LI I want to romance is LGBT. I'm sure there were plenty of women who wanted that guy with the mustache from DAI.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

(poor Josie didn't have a known name until about three months before the game landed)

It's okay. As Scribbles fans we knew that perfection would take time, and they were merely saving the best for last. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Jesus Christ!!!!!!!! You know I'm just praying everyone in MEA is bi. That way I don't get p¡$$3d if the LI I want to romance is lez. I'm sure there were plenty of women who wanted that guy with the mustache from DAI.

<flinch> Please, don't use the term "lez" or "lesbos." I know you don't mean to be insulting, but those are pretty hurtful to those in the LGBT+ community. I used to be called that myself in high school, usually right before someone would try to beat my butt.

I don't want there to be all bisexual LIs. I used to be for it, but not anymore. I'd rather have individual sexualites and the like. It adds more to the characters. With Dorian, I can just roll a male character and it's the same thing with Cassandra. There was a lot of women disappointed too, but I'd rather have the writers create their characters with the sexuality they feel is right. They shouldn't just make everyone bi to appease the fanbase.

I know this is a dirty word, but there is the matter of representation. By doing all the LIs bisexual, that excludes primarily gay and straight people. Being bi is a different life experience from being gay or being straight. I want to see more gay content, and I'd also like the perceived majority have their stories. I don't care if straight people traditionally have had the majority of media attention, they should have their stories too.

[Gwydden]

<flinch> Please, don't use the term "lez" or "lesbos." I know you don't mean to be insulting, but those are pretty hurtful to those in the LGBT+ community. I used to be called that myself in high school, usually right before someone would try to beat my butt.

I don't want there to be all bisexual LIs. I used to be for it, but not anymore. I'd rather have individual sexualites and the like. It adds more to the characters. With Dorian, I can just roll a male character and it's the same thing with Cassandra. There was a lot of women disappointed too, but I'd rather have the writers create their characters with the sexuality they feel is right. They shouldn't just make everyone bi to appease the fanbase.

I know this is a dirty word, but there is the matter of representation. By doing all the LIs bisexual, that excludes primarily gay and straight people. Being bi is a different life experience from being gay or being straight. I want to see more gay content, and I'd also the perceived majority have their stories. I don't care if straight people traditionally have had the majority of media attention, they should have their stories too.

True that. And frankly, it's somewhat of a catch 22. If they give the characters set sexualities people will complain because they didn't get the one they wanted. If they make everyone bisexual people will complain because unrealistic, dating sim, pandering, porno fantasy, yadda yadda yadda yadda.

 

So frankly, they should just do whatever they want, not that that was ever in doubt.

[SKAR]

<flinch> Please, don't use the term "lez" or "lesbos." I know you don't mean to be insulting, but those are pretty hurtful to those in the LGBT+ community. I used to be called that myself in high school, usually right before someone would try to beat my butt.

I don't want there to be all bisexual LIs. I used to be for it, but not anymore. I'd rather have individual sexualites and the like. It adds more to the characters. With Dorian, I can just roll a male character and it's the same thing with Cassandra. There was a lot of women disappointed too, but I'd rather have the writers create their characters with the sexuality they feel is right. They shouldn't just make everyone bi to appease the fanbase.

I know this is a dirty word, but there is the matter of representation. By doing all the LIs bisexual, that excludes primarily gay and straight people. Being bi is a different life experience from being gay or being straight. I want to see more gay content, and I'd also the perceived majority have their stories. I don't care if straight people traditionally have had the majority of media attention, they should have their stories too.

Didn't mean to offend anyone. I'll change it. The one time I don't put LGBT. Darn norms. Nice points though. But won't stop me from rioting if I can't romance someone. I'm sure some women wanted a piece of Miranda. Or Tali.

[Grieving Natashina]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. I'll change it. The one time I don't put LGBT. Darn norms.

Relax man. Callling them lesbians is just fine instead of lez or lesbo. You didn't know, I'm not going to come down hard on you.

I'm not that upset. I was only trying to give you a heads up. You're a supportive poster when it comes to LGBT+ stuff and I have noticed.

[SKAR]

Relax man. Callling them lesbians is just fine. I'm not that upset. I was only trying to give you a heads up. You're a supportive poster when it comes to LGBT+ stuff and I have noticed.

I wouldn't say I'm an avid supporter but People have the right to be whoever they want to be. No one can take that away. It's funny because I usually put LGBT.

[Grieving Natashina]

I wouldn't say I'm an avid supporter but People have the right to be whoever they want to be. No one can take that away.

Works for me, and that's all I could hope for from anyone.

[Gwydden]

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the promotional art per se is only secondary to the real issue. I don't think I'm wrong when I say that FemShep always felt a little... less graphically crisp, than the default male Shepard. And then there was the whole issue with the vote on her looks, and how she did not look all that much like her cover art in the actual game.

 

If they choose to use the female protagonist in the cover or in trailers I hope they'll keep that in mind. Frankly, I hope they have worked harder at making non-default Shepards in general look better. It was really hard to customize him/her and end up with something that looked nearly as good (graphically speaking) as the standard MaleShep.

[Gwydden]

I wouldn't say I'm an acid supporter...

Don't make a joke about his ph level, don't make a joke about his ph level...

[SKAR]

Don't make a joke about his ph level, don't make a joke about his ph level...

LOL I fixed it. Stupid tiny letters.

[Grieving Natashina]

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure the promotional art per se is only secondary to the real issue. I don't think I'm wrong when I say that FemShep always felt a little... less graphically crisp, than the default male Shepard. And then there was the whole issue with the vote on her looks, and how she did not look all that much like her cover art in the actual game.

If they choose to use the female protagonist in the cover or in trailers I hope they'll keep that in mind. Frankly, I hope they have worked harder at making non-default Shepards in general look better. It was really hard to customize him/her and end up with something that looked nearly as good (graphically speaking) as the standard MaleShep.

I remember firing up ME3 again after Mark Meer signed my promo art at Comic Con. I looked at that Shep, then looked at the default. Looked back up and then looked back at my monitor. I started laughing, because the disconnect between promo art and the in-game model was extremely bad. I'm thankful I'm on PC and I've got mods that actually make her look much closer to that. Aside from the default from ME3, I thought she looked okay except for in ME2. Not sure what happened there but I agree that it didn't look as good as Sheploo. I felt the DA:I team did a much better job of that. Those presets look pretty good. Except for the sideburns on the female character, but a different rant for a different thread.

With that fan vote, I couldn't stop shaking my head when I found that out. I don't care if it's a male, female or polka-dotted character, the designers should do it without fan input. My "favorite" part of that is folks crying that it was sexist that the blonde hair/blue eyed Shep won. Seriously? I don't know what's worse. The fact that BW thought it was a good idea to let fans vote on FemShep, or the fans that thought it was sexist and "conforming to the typical straight white male ideal," over a frigging hair color.

Pro-tip: If you want to be taken seriously in regards to female representation in video games, pick your battles. Don't start accusing game companies of being sexist over hair colors. That's a great way to have a bunch of people pick anyone up that is promoting gender equality and feminism and throw them into the crazy pile. Seriously, cool down your jets.

I wanted to mention avoiding the "default" look is another reason why I'm kinda meh on the whole idea on having any obvious gender on the cover. I'd like to see a focus on say, a real world picture of Andromeda and the logo for the posters/cover art. To me, that's my symbol of the game. Just like the Eye of Tyr from NWN or the blood dragon logo for DA. The PC is secondary to me in the cover art and posters. I do believe in equality between genders and I've definitely gotten my share of flack for it. I've just seen firsthand what's more effective these days. Trailers and convention videos are actually more important to me at this point. I'm willing to bet that a lot of gamers are more likely to check out con footage over the actual trailer.

[Gwydden]

I wanted to mention avoiding the "default" look is another reason why I'm kinda meh on the whole idea on having any obvious gender on the cover. I'd like to see a focus on say, a real world picture of Andromeda and the logo for the posters/cover art. To me, that's my symbol of the game. Just like the Eye of Tyr from NWN or the blood dragon logo for DA. The PC is secondary to me in the cover art and posters. I do believe in equality between genders and I've definitely gotten my share of flack for it. I've just seen firsthand what's more effective these days. Trailers and convention videos are actually more important to me at this point. I'm willing to bet that a lot of gamers are more likely to check out con footage over the actual trailer.

I agree that they shouldn't show the protagonist in order to avoid the default look syndrome, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of a symbol bacause it is unlikely to mean anything unless you've already played the game or, maybe, you are familiar with the series.

 

I'd actually like them to just go the Stellaris route and show some cool alien landscape. Some of the concept art for MEA we've seen so far looks promising.

[SKAR]

I agree that they shouldn't show the protagonist in order to avoid the default look syndrome, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of a symbol bacause it is unlikely to mean anything unless you've already played the game or, maybe, you are familiar with the series.

I'd actually like them to just go the Stellaris route and show some cool alien landscape. Some of the concept art for MEA we've seen so far looks promising.

Even if the default person looks good someone is going to complain.

[Grieving Natashina]

I agree that they shouldn't show the protagonist in order to avoid the default look syndrome, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of a symbol bacause it is unlikely to mean anything unless you've already played the game or, maybe, you are familiar with the series.
 
I'd actually like them to just go the Stellaris route and show some cool alien landscape. Some of the concept art for MEA we've seen so far looks promising.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you have a point with newcomers to the series. That's what I was getting at though, pretty much. Some sort of alien landscape and the logo. Maybe the image of a gun or a helmet. Keep it simple. Then have the back of the box/the information section on the digital version to let the player know what kind of game it is. It avoids a lot of drama over gender even on the BSN, and it shows that the game isn't just about the PC, it's about the galaxy that they are now in.

Don't get me wrong. This site will always create drama over gender representation and other things. But a drama-fest over cover art is something that can be largely avoided.

[Heimdall]

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you have a point with newcomers to the series. That's what I was getting at though, pretty much. Some sort of alien landscape and the logo. Maybe the image of a gun or a helmet. Keep it simple. Then have the back of the box/the information section on the digital version to let the player know what kind of game it is. It avoids a lot of drama over gender even on the BSN, and it shows that the game isn't just about the PC, it's about the galaxy that they are now in.

Don't get me wrong. This site will always create drama over gender representation and other things. But a drama-fest over cover art is something that can be largely avoided.

Well, I think DAI did right by making the character actually on the cover have no clear gender.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, I think DAI did right by making the character actually on the cover have no clear gender.

I've mentioned that as well in some of my previous posts. I'm fine with that approach as well. I spent months in the Lady IQ ad thread and that was something that myself and a lot of other posters in there had asked for as a compromise. It worked great for DA:I and that's something I wouldn't mind seeing for ME:A. I've just been kicking around various other ideas.

[Cyonan]

I agree that they shouldn't show the protagonist in order to avoid the default look syndrome, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea of a symbol bacause it is unlikely to mean anything unless you've already played the game or, maybe, you are familiar with the series.

 

I'd actually like them to just go the Stellaris route and show some cool alien landscape. Some of the concept art for MEA we've seen so far looks promising.

 

I think it depends on the symbol. It works pretty well for Skyrim's cover to go for the minimalist route and have just the symbol on the front.

 

Although I do like that picture we've already had in here of the male and female PC standing back to back as well. Maybe photoshop that into some cool landscape or something since the background is kind of boring on the current image.

[Grieving Natashina]

I think it depends on the symbol. It works pretty well for Skyrim's cover to go for the minimalist route and have just the symbol on the front.

Although I do like that picture we've already had in here of the male and female PC standing back to back as well. Maybe photoshop that into some cool landscape or something since the background is kind of boring on the current image.

I'll admit, I'd rather having them stand back to back in the same pose rather than the pose she currently has. I don't think it's sexist or anything like that. This is BioWare after all, and they have come a very long way since ME3. Plus, I never thought they were sexist in the first place.

_{Gods above and below, does that make me irritated. Out of all the companies to accuse that of in 2016...}

I only think the current pose for the female character looks ridiculous. I know that she's checking an omni-tool, but it looks like she's contorting her back in an uncomfortable way. If they were go to that route, I know what I'd personally prefer. Back to back, with blasters drawn and ready to go. It's a minor nitpick though.

[Cyonan]

I'll admit, I'd rather having them stand back to back in the same pose rather than the pose she currently has. I don't think it's sexist or anything like that. This is BioWare after all, and they have come a very long way since ME3. Plus, I never thought they were sexist in the first place.

_{Gods above and below, does that make me irritated. Out of all the companies to accuse that of in 2016...}

I only think the current pose for the female character looks ridiculous. I know that she's checking an omni-tool, but it looks like she's contorting her back in an uncomfortable way. If they were go to that route, I know what I'd personally prefer. Back to back, with blasters drawn and ready to go. It's a minor nitpick though.

 

At a glance it doesn't bother me but yeah, I do see that she's basically contorting her back to push her chest out.

 

If you want a more Mass Effect feel you could give her a biotic field about her ready to hit somebody with a Warp as well rather than looking at her wrist which doesn't even look like an omni-tool as we know it.

[Grieving Natashina]

At a glance it doesn't bother me but yeah, I do see that she's basically contorting her back to push her chest out.
 
If you want a more Mass Effect feel you could give her a biotic field about her ready to hit somebody with a Warp as well rather than looking at her wrist which doesn't even look like an omni-tool as we know it.

You're reading my mind today. I love that idea and I wish I could like it more than once. If they do put both genders on the cover, showing a biotic field and her getting ready to throw someone would be quite effective. It looks better and does convey a direct reference to the ME series. Nicely done. <hat tip>

[Gwydden]

I only think the current pose for the female character looks ridiculous. I know that she's checking an omni-tool, but it looks like she's contorting her back in an uncomfortable way. If they were go to that route, I know what I'd personally prefer. Back to back, with blasters drawn and ready to go. It's a minor nitpick though.

I'll confess that I'd rather they avoid any "badass" poses, which is actually one of the reasons why I wouldn't want the protagonist at the forefront. To me that screams Generic Action Hero in Generic Action Franchise. I'd rather have a more "quiet," awesome scene. In the literal meaning of the word awesome.

 

But truth be told, I don't find covers to be terribly important, so even if I don't end up liking it it won't be a big deal.

 

I think it depends on the symbol. It works pretty well for Skyrim's cover to go for the minimalist route and have just the symbol on the front.

I had Skyrim in mind, in fact. On the plus side, it isn't flashy, but I still found it to be very bland and ineffective. As a random buyer, the logo doesn't draw my attention, nor does it tell me anything about what the game is about. Well, I guess it lets you know it's a fantasy game, but that's not much considering how fantasy is a very broad genre.

[Heimdall]

I think it depends on the symbol. It works pretty well for Skyrim's cover to go for the minimalist route and have just the symbol on the front.

Bioware themselves did this a bit with DAO, the minimalist blood dragon on white. I think it worked pretty well then.