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[SKAR]

My objection to Cerberus is that, well, they're space Nazis, complete with a death camp. There's no sublety or trusting the audience. I'd like them more if they were the faction that was intended to be ambiguous, not the Reapers.

They were an interesting enemy faction in the game, movies, and books. The illusive man was a brilliant antagonist. I praise Martin Sheen's performance.

[Element Zero]

Cerberus could've been really interesting, had they been fully conceptualized beforehand and then properly handled. Unfortunately, neither happened, and they are, for many fans, a stark reminder of failed potential of the original trilogy. (I'm not saying the trilogy wasn't good. I love it. It's my favorite series. It could definitely have been better written and executed, though.) It's all sort of a shame, because Martin Sheen did the best VA work of the entire series, in my opinion. He was phenomenal, and is likely responsible for the little goodwill Cerberus can find amongst us.

I really like the version of Cerberus that appears in the Codex. The "idea guys" and lore-builders who ultimately work on the codices put together some really compelling stuff. Unfortunately, the games seldom hold true to their own lore. Cerberus is the worst offender of all, in this regard, becoming laughably overblown from its reasonable origins (specifically the ME2 retcon origin).

If the Ark project is indeed what we've been speculating it to be, and it launched pre-ME3, then it is definitely something with which TIM and Cerberus would've been involved. They would've supported the project both politically and financially. They also would've thoroughly infiltrated it on many levels, from R&D to leadership after deployment. Sadly, Cerberus has been bungled so badly that no one wants to see them ever again. It would be best to leave them out of MEA.

[UpUpAway]

Cerberus could've been really interesting, had they been fully conceptualized beforehand and then properly handled. Unfortunately, neither happened, and they are, for many fans, a stark reminder of failed potential of the original trilogy. (I'm not saying the trilogy want good. I love it. It's my favorite. It could definitely have been better written and executed, though.) It's all sort of a shame, because Martin Sheen did the best VA work of the entire series, in my opinion. He was phenomenal, and is likely responsible for the little goodwill Cerberus can find amongst us.

I really like the version of Cerberus that appears in the Codex. The "idea guys" and lore-builders who ultimately work on the codices put together some really compelling stuff. Unfortunately, the games seldom hold true to their own lore. Cerberus is the worst offender of all, in this regard, becoming laughably overblown from its reasonable origins (specifically the ME2 retcon origin).

If the Ark project is indeed what we've been speculating it to be, and it launched pre-ME3, then it is definitely something with which TIM and Cerberus would've been involved. They would've supported the project both politically and financially. They also would've thoroughly infiltrated it on many levels, from R&D to leadership after deployment. Sadly, Cerberus has been bungled so badly that no one wants to see them ever again. It would be best to leave them out of MEA.

 

For mean, not wanting to see them back, doesn't have to do with any opinion whether they were bungled or not... it's just that I want ME:A to be about something different than the ME Trilogy.  We don't need to continually repeat the story of the Reapers (or some force) dividing us so that we fight amongst ourselves instead of fighting them, etc.  Bringing Cerberus back to draw ME:A into that same o same o direction, so I think it's best they just leave them out of it altogether.

[Thermopylae]

Actually, the idea of Cerberus being a kind of 5th legion in the Ark Project could be a pretty good idea, one of the human NPC's being a traitor could be interesting. The idea of Cerberus kind of grew on me over the series, (or something grew) although I would have preferred them being less obviously jacked booted cartoony bad guys. It would be nice if they retconned Cerberus in ME:A, it would induce a kind of bureaucratic paranoia. But I agree it would have been nice if the Ark story was developed within the trilogy.

[Vortex13]

Jack will not live to be a thousand years old.  She's probably a similar age (relatively) to Morinth (who can also keep the barrier up in the SM and is, therefore, as strong as Jack).  In addition, Jack cannot hold the barrier unless she gets her squadmate specific upgrade... so it's not her "natural biotic talent" that enables her to be as strong as Samara/Morinth in this regard.  Lore indicates that Jack is the strongest known HUMAN biotic and is known to be significantly stronger than the other human biotics in the game... but not the strongest biotic in existence by far.  On the other hand, there are a few of Asari presented in the game whose biotic prowess is not directly comparable to either Jack's or Samara's but who may well have been as strong as both of them... if not stronger - Vasir, Aria, Aethyta & Benezia.  There are also a number of other Asari Justicars in existence that we don't get to meet, but we know they are out there.  The game never implies that there is even one other humans like Jack out there... she's presented as a human anomaly... not a "sure sign of human superiority."

 

As for bringing Cerberus back in ME:A... "I haven't been shot in the head near enough times to make that seem like a good idea."

 

That's the thing though, us humans can be as awesome as the Asari in the fields of biotic power despite that being the Asari's 'thing'. In fact we can stand toe to toe against any other species in the galaxy and beat them at their one characterized talent, and we can do it to all of them at once. We can match the biotic potential of the Asari. We have a military on par with the Turians. We are just as good scientists as the Salarians. We dominate the market like the Volus. We are just as good at information gathering as the Shadow Broker. Etc. 

 

Every other alien in the series has one specific area of expertise that they are known for; one hat to wear if you will; whereas humanity can excel in all of those areas at the same time; thereby wearing multiple hats at once. You don't encounter any notable Volus scientists. You don't see any Turian CEOs. You don't see any significant show of Salarian biotics. You don't see the Asari fielding massive fleets of ships. But you do see the humans doing all of those things and doing all of those things very well. And all of this from a species that has been a part of the galactic community for less than 30 years.

 

In the universe of Mass Effect, humanity is a race of Mary Sues; which is just as good as being the APEX species; its how we are written into the series. 

 

 

As for bringing Cerberus back in ME:A... "I haven't been shot in the head near enough times to make that seem like a good idea."

 

Well said, I agree completely.

[SagaX]

There would always be the possibility of human(or alien) extremists and fanatical. Althought I think all will come from "WHAT IS THE ARK and its purpose?"

 

Because if they are a military/diplomatic mission, BYE COMMON SENSE LOGIC, all the members would have been chosen because of their high tolerancy to others.

If its purpose is civil and salvation of as many as they can(as fail safe from Reaper Wars), then you dont have much control of what kind of being get into, and therefore some intolerant/fanatical/extremist species could be there.

[Laughing_Man]

That's the thing though, us humans can be as awesome as the Asari in the fields of biotic power despite that being the Asari's 'thing'. In fact we can stand toe to toe against any other species in the galaxy and beat them at their one characterized talent, and we can do it to all of them at once. We can match the biotic potential of the Asari. We have a military on par with the Turians. We are just as good scientists as the Salarians. We dominate the market like the Volus. We are just as good at information gathering as the Shadow Broker. Etc. 

 

Every other alien in the series has one specific area of expertise that they are known for; one hat to wear if you will; whereas humanity can excel in all of those areas at the same time; thereby wearing multiple hats at once. You don't encounter any notable Volus scientists. You don't see any Turian CEOs. You don't see any significant show of Salarian biotics. You don't see the Asari fielding massive fleets of ships. But you do see the humans doing all of those things and doing all of those things very well. And all of this from a species that has been a part of the galactic community for less than 30 years.

 

In the universe of Mass Effect, humanity is a race of Mary Sues; which is just as good as being the APEX species; its how we are written into the series. 

 

All this is less an objective "proof" that humanity is great, and more about how Bioware for some reason decided that giving every race one defining characteristic is somehow a good idea.

 

The "Planet of Hats" trope exists primarily to make life easier for writers.

[Vortex13]

All this is less an objective "proof" that humanity is great, and more about how Bioware for some reason decided that giving every race one defining characteristic is somehow a good idea.

 

The "Planet of Hats" trope exists primarily to make life easier for writers.

 

 

This is true to an extent, but that doesn't change the fact that according to the rules of the universe, and the lore written therein, humanity can excel at multiple areas of expertise on par with other aliens that only specialize in one of said areas.

 

The "Planet of Hats" trope can also be used more discreetly than as a defense by the writers to offhandedly make humanity the best at everything.

[UpUpAway]

That's the thing though, us humans can be as awesome as the Asari in the fields of biotic power despite that being the Asari's 'thing'. In fact we can stand toe to toe against any other species in the galaxy and beat them at their one characterized talent, and we can do it to all of them at once. We can match the biotic potential of the Asari. We have a military on par with the Turians. We are just as good scientists as the Salarians. We dominate the market like the Volus. We are just as good at information gathering as the Shadow Broker. Etc. 

 

Every other alien in the series has one specific area of expertise that they are known for; one hat to wear if you will; whereas humanity can excel in all of those areas at the same time; thereby wearing multiple hats at once. You don't encounter any notable Volus scientists. You don't see any Turian CEOs. You don't see any significant show of Salarian biotics. You don't see the Asari fielding massive fleets of ships. But you do see the humans doing all of those things and doing all of those things very well. And all of this from a species that has been a part of the galactic community for less than 30 years.

 

In the universe of Mass Effect, humanity is a race of Mary Sues; which is just as good as being the APEX species; its how we are written into the series. 

 

 

 

 

Well said, I agree completely.

 

The thing is, humanity has a single individual who can stand toe-to-toe with the Asari relative to biotics.  As Mordin notes, all species have outliers (individuals who have abilities above the norm for that species), even though for those species the genetic diversity is less than is, it seems, with humanity.  Humanity also has to account for (and possibly take care of) it's weaker individuals (like David - who had a talent but was also quite vulnerable to being abused by his own brother).  The "no one gets left behind" theme is also presented in the game, along with the somewhat opposing idea of there even being an apex species.  This is what Bioware did with the "loosey goosey" writing of ME.  They touched on innumerable diametrically opposing themes, posed the questions, and did not really answer them... leaving it to us to debate them among ourselves.

 

So, perhaps the ARK question starts with - who would you save? - the APEX species or would you tend to feel that "no one gets left behind)? Or do you select a number of species based on your perceived usefulness of their prominent talent?

[EpicNewb]

That's the thing though, us humans can be as awesome as the Asari in the fields of biotic power despite that being the Asari's 'thing'. In fact we can stand toe to toe against any other species in the galaxy and beat them at their one characterized talent, and we can do it to all of them at once. We can match the biotic potential of the Asari. We have a military on par with the Turians. We are just as good scientists as the Salarians. We dominate the market like the Volus. We are just as good at information gathering as the Shadow Broker. Etc. 

 

Every other alien in the series has one specific area of expertise that they are known for; one hat to wear if you will; whereas humanity can excel in all of those areas at the same time; thereby wearing multiple hats at once. You don't encounter any notable Volus scientists. You don't see any Turian CEOs. You don't see any significant show of Salarian biotics. You don't see the Asari fielding massive fleets of ships. But you do see the humans doing all of those things and doing all of those things very well. And all of this from a species that has been a part of the galactic community for less than 30 years.

 

In the universe of Mass Effect, humanity is a race of Mary Sues; which is just as good as being the APEX species; its how we are written into the series. 

 

 

 

 

Well said, I agree completely.

can we outdo the Krogans at their speciality

[Vortex13]

can we outdo the Krogans at their speciality

 

 

Which one, the: "whining and demanding of handouts from other species to avoid going extinct" specialty? 

 

 

But seriously, how many Krogan Battlemasters does the player kill over the corse of the trilogy? For being depicted as rage filled battle toads that threatened the entire galaxy they sure go down quick to a simple "squishy" human. 

 

Even outside of player actions just look at how Okeer is dropped like a sack of wet paper by an upstart human mercenary despite being a well renowned Krogan leader, and supposedly, a vastly intelligent scientist.

[Laughing_Man]

But seriously, how many Krogan Battlemasters does the player kill over the corse of the trilogy? For being depicted as rage filled battle toads that threatened the entire galaxy they sure go down quick to a simple "squishy" human.

 

That's gameplay for you.

 

Realistically speaking, considering that every Krogan is able to wear armor heavy enough to serve for armored vehicles,

and can probably mount bigger shield generators and carry weapons that are usually only used while mounted by smaller species,

every encounter with a Krogan should have been a boss fight.

 

 

Also, you play as "The Shepard"...

[Lady Artifice]

Mass Effect: Andromeda

 

Developer(s): Bioware

Publisher(s): Electronic Arts

Director(s): Mac Walters

 

 

This is my only real reason for wariness about Andromeda. This worries me. 

[Han Shot First]

If the Ark project is indeed what we've been speculating it to be, and it launched pre-ME3, then it is definitely something with which TIM and Cerberus would've been involved. They would've supported the project both politically and financially. They also would've thoroughly infiltrated it on many levels, from R&D to leadership after deployment. Sadly, Cerberus has been bungled so badly that no one wants to see them ever again. It would be best to leave them out of MEA.

I don't disagree, but I'm hoping humans weren't the primary player in putting the Ark project together. Since humans were responsible for the start of the Crucible project, the Ark should be an alien idea, particularly since the series has had a tendency to dive head first into the humans are special trope.

I'd have the Ark be something that was built during the Rachni Wars by the Asari and Salarians, before the uplifting of Krogan tipped the scales, and later mothballed as the tide turned. The Asari Councilor's dialogue about needing to make preparations for the continuance iof galactic civilization, after she's told the Crucible project was potentially sabotaged, could be used to link ME3 to Andromeda.

Since the Reaper War wasn't the first time the Council species faced a potentially apocalyptic war, it would make sense for them to have had a colonize Andromeda contigency plan in place long before humanity joined the galactic community.

[Sifr]

I don't disagree, but I'm hoping humans weren't the primary player in putting the Ark project together. Since humans were responsible for the start of the Crucible project, the Ark should be an alien idea, particularly since the series has had a tendency to dive head first into the humans are special trope.

I'd have the Ark be something that was built during the Rachni Wars by the Asari and Salarians, before the uplifting of Krogan tipped the scales, and later mothballed as the tide turned. The Asari Councilor's dialogue about needing to make preparations for the continuance iof galactic civilization, after she's told the Crucible project was potentially sabotaged, could be used to link ME3 to Andromeda.

 

I concur, I would prefer for idea of the Ark Project to have originated with the Salarians, rather than humanity.

 

Salarians enjoy cooking up elaborate hypothetical scenarios in their spare time for fun - Mordin mentions the STG did projections of both unchecked Krogan expansion and a prolonged Human-Turian War - so them being crazy prepared enough to have worked out the logistics for what an extra-galactic evacuation and recolonisation effort would require, would be very in-character for them.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

I've had enough Cerberus for 3 games. At least the trilogy version.

[Sifr]

Regardless of whether they were Cerberus or not, I'd want our antagonists to be better written that they've been thus far.

[Laughing_Man]

This is my only real reason for wariness about Andromeda. This worries me. 

 

Aside from the ending, what else did he write / was responsible for?

[Element Zero]

I agree with Han and Sifr that I'd prefer the Ark project not be of human origin, conceptually speaking. I suspect something this big will take every species in the galactic community to accomplish, but I do hope the concept wasn't one that originated solely with us. I don't get as turned off by humanity being the "species of destiny" as some do, but I do have my limits. For the sake of verisimilitude, it would be nice to see the Asari and Salarians accomplish something significant, again. It's been 1400 years or so since they've made any waves.

The writers need to be careful with their human-supremacy stuff. Liara explained how and why the galactic community viewed us as bullies shortly after we first met her. We strive to achieve our goals and let nothing stand in our way. We've already, in a few decades, amassed a powerful military that is second only to the Turians (and that likely due solely to treaty limitations). We have a powerhouse economy that has fully integrated into the galactic community. We've become a Citadel Council species, which some species have yet to achieve in over a thousand years of effort. We've already begun fielding powerful combat biotics, after barely understanding biotics a couple of decades ago. And, of course, we had the most famous SPECTRE of all time, who saved the galaxy from the Reapers.

At this rate, with even a minor timeline jump, we will have advanced far beyond the lesser species of the MW, right? Of course, that's not the game most of us want to play. The writers really do need to be more careful with the "humanity is super special" stuff.

[Silvos]

Aside from the ending, what else did he write / was responsible for?

Cerberus.

[SKAR]

Aside from the ending, what else did he write / was responsible for?

Cerberus was good, he did that right. ME3 original endings. WTF.

[FKA_Servo]

Cerberus was good, he did that right. ME3 original endings. WTF.

Again, citation needed.

[SKAR]

Again, citation needed.

I meant a good third party. I liked them as an enemy. I'm surprised at some people but we wouldn't be human if we all had the same opinion.

[FKA_Servo]

I meant a good third party. I liked them as an enemy. I'm surprised at some people but we wouldn't be human if we all had the same opinion.

Absent any qualifications for that particular opinion, all that says is that you have questionable taste, or low standards, or both of those things. It doesn't authoritatively say that Cerberus, or its writing, was good.

Cerberus was incredibly dumb. At the end of the day, I just hope they get THAT message loud and clear. In a whole trilogy full of dumb (albeit mostly forgivable) contrivances, in a medium frequently defined by dumb contrivances, Cerberus manages to stand head and shoulders above everything else.

[SKAR]

Absent any qualifications for that particular opinion, all that says is that you have questionable taste, or low standards, or both of those things. It doesn't authoritatively say that Cerberus, or its writing, was good.

Cerberus was incredibly dumb. At the end of the day, I just hope they get THAT message loud and clear. In a whole trilogy full of dumb (albeit mostly forgivable) contrivances, in a medium frequently defined by dumb contrivances, Cerberus manages to stand head and shoulders above everything else.

I can say the same for you. It's all a matter of opinion.