15 réponses à ce sujet

[andy6915]

Think about it. Humans in this series are basically the jack of all trades, good at biotics but not as good as Asari, good at tech and science but not as good as the Salarians, good at combat but not as good as Turians (or Krogan). Humans are all about versatility, being good at everything the other council races are good at but not as good as they are at their specialties. Sentinels are all-arounders compared to even the other combo classes, mixing a bit of everything (tankiness of a soldier class through tech armor, biotic abilities like an adept, tech like an engineer). Sentinels have the same niche in gameplay as humans do in the narrative, filling the roles of the other 3 main races (classes) combined. Kaidan, your first permanent party member in ME1 and the first main human representative in gameplay next to Shepard. But even moreso is Miranda, who is definitely a sentinel as far as a sentinel party member can be in ME2 (only biotic with overload). Miranda, the Cerberus agent who is all about raising humanity up and trying to act as humanity's agent as she and TIM see it.

 

Anyone else view sentinel in this way? It only occurred recently to me, but it made more sense the more I thought about it.

[ZipZap2000]

Kinda.

*Sips Ryncol*

[Iakus]

Well, who else would come up with Wolverine-claw omniblades, I guess.

[congokong]

People say sentinels are jacks of all trades, but that is not entirely true. They can handle almost any situation well, it is true, but they lack in the combat department. No advanced weapon training (ME1, ME2), no passive weapon boosting buffs, and no ammo powers. Still, I say they are the overall best class consistently through all three games.

[Reorte]

People say sentinels are jacks of all trades, but that is not entirely true. They can handle almost any situation well, it is true, but they lack in the combat department. No advanced weapon training (ME1, ME2), no passive weapon boosting buffs, and no ammo powers. Still, I say they are the overall best class consistently through all three games.

It was all neatly split up in ME1 into tech, biotic, and combat, with the Sentinal being the tech / biotic class. It got less clear-cut as the games went on, with the combo classes becoming more unique in their own right.

Considering the lore I'd say that the most representative human class wouldn't be a biotic one, biotics still being pretty rare amongst humans. We've got more of a tech than biotic leaning (the ME1 tech / combat class was Infiltrator).

[xassantex]

there are only a few other human references besides Sheppard: Kaidan who calls himself a Biotic but is truly a Sentinel with his mix of Overload/Cryo Blast and Reave/ barrier. Then there is Ashley who's a Soldier and James also a Soldier. 

Also there are Joker and Steve , the pilots. 

And Anderson, another Soldier. ( concussive shot and incendiary ammo ).

 

So would Soldier be the most human class of all ? 

[andy6915]

there are only a few other human references besides Sheppard: Kaidan who calls himself a Biotic but is truly a Sentinel with his mix of Overload/Cryo Blast and Reave/ barrier. Then there is Ashley who's a Soldier and James also a Soldier. 

Also there are Joker and Steve , the pilots. 

And Anderson, another Soldier. ( concussive shot and incendiary ammo ).

 

So would Soldier be the most human class of all ? 

 

I didn't go by quantity, and that's a dumb way to go by.

[Vazgen]

Well, who else would come up with Wolverine-claw omniblades, I guess.

Vorcha

[aoibhealfae]

Not sure it was most human class but I could accept Sentinel being the most common advanced biotic combatant class. Kaidan, Miranda and Nyreen are all Sentinels. It kinda make sense since having dual specialty is useful especially in long tactical fights. You learn to manage your strength and energy, use your wits to disarm and incapacitate enemies. Both Kaidan and Jacob are both Alliance military-trained combat biotics, the only difference was they style and rank. 

 

Allthough, exactly what does being "most human" even got to do with class specification?

[andy6915]

Not sure it was most human class but I could accept Sentinel being the most common advanced biotic combatant class. Kaidan, Miranda and Nyreen are all Sentinels. It kinda make sense since having dual specialty is useful especially in long tactical fights. You learn to manage your strength and energy, use your wits to disarm and incapacitate enemies. Both Kaidan and Jacob are both Alliance military-trained combat biotics, the only difference was they style and rank. 

 

Allthough, exactly what does being "most human" even got to do with class specification?

 

"Most representative of what humans are", more like.

 

Jacob and Kaidan are nothing alike, Jacob's a vanguard whereas Kaidan is an sentinel, they're as similar as Kaidan and Garrus are to each other.

[aoibhealfae]

You're talking about combat specification as a general population representation. I would have understand this better if you're talking about military population but the general humanity? Is there an existing population that was only represented by minority few that was equipped with formal military training and the capacity to kill? Wasn't that authoritarian?

 

Even so, how does having biotics even applies to this? Human biotics was an extreme rare subset of ME's humanity. A minute minority of the population with a genetic defect to manipulate dark energy. Alliance Military is a small percentage of a Systems Alliance's population. Human biotic-combatants are a small percentage of that already small population. Whatever hypothesis you're trying to make, it still didn't make sense.

[andy6915]

You're talking about combat specification as a general population representation. I would have understand this better if you're talking about military population but the general humanity? Is there an existing population that was only represented by minority few that was equipped with formal military training and the capacity to kill? Wasn't that authoritarian?

 

Even so, how does having biotics even applies to this? Human biotics wan an extreme rare subset of ME's humanity. A minute minority of the population with a genetic defect to manipulate dark energy. Alliance Military is a small percentage of a Systems Alliance's population. Human biotic-combatants are a small percentage of that already small population. Whatever hypothesis you're trying to make, it still didn't make sense.

 

Yes it does, you're just not getting it. I already outlined it. Humans are the jack of all trades in the ME universe, good at tech but not the best, good at combat but not the best, good at biotics but not the best. Sentinel is good at all those but not the best. But like humans, its sheer versatility is what makes it great. It doesn't have to be the best at anything, just be good at everything. That's humanity in Mass Effect. I can't explain it any better than that.

[Reorte]

Yes it does, you're just not getting it. I already outlined it. Humans are the jack of all trades in the ME universe, good at tech but not the best, good at combat but not the best, good at biotics but not the best. Sentinel is good at all those but not the best. But like humans, its sheer versatility is what makes it great. It doesn't have to be the best at anything, just be good at everything. That's humanity in Mass Effect. I can't explain it any better than that.

Very, very weak at biotics overall to the point where it's probably insignificant. There are a small number of biotics (probably more concentrated in the military than in the general population), but even there they're not that common. They can't be said to give a typical jack-of-all trades impression of the species as a whole, because as a whole we're not jacks of all trades - we're weaker than that in the biotic department, even if a few individuals are more specialised.

Changing off-topic a bit ME1 had a character per class, that balance slipped afterwards but no-one seemed to mind. I've never even tried working out what some of the characters are, so let's see:
                             ME1                  ME2                                           ME3
Adept:        Liara     Jack & Samara            Liara & Javik
Engineer:     Tali      Tali & Mordin            Tali & EDI
Solider:      Ashley    Zaeed & Grunt            James & Ashley
Infilitrator: Garrus    Garrus, Legion, Kasumi   Garrus
Sentinel:     Kaidan    Miranda                  Kaidan
Vanguard:     Wrex      Jacob & Thane
Have I missed any out or got them wrong? Surely one of the ME3 squad must fill the biotic role, or were they just creating characters they liked and then picking the appropriate powers afterwards? (not an unreasonable approach IMO) I'm not counting DLC squad members only present during the DLC.

[andy6915]

Very, very weak at biotics overall to the point where it's probably insignificant. There are a small number of biotics (probably more concentrated in the military than in the general population), but even there they're not that common. They can't be said to give a typical jack-of-all trades impression of the species as a whole, because as a whole we're not jacks of all trades - we're weaker than that in the biotic department, even if a few individuals are more specialised.

Changing off-topic a bit ME1 had a character per class, that balance slipped afterwards but no-one seemed to mind. I've never even tried working out what some of the characters are, so let's see:

                             ME1                  ME2                                           ME3
Adept:        Liara     Jack & Samara            Liara & Javik
Engineer:     Tali      Tali & Mordin            Tali & EDI
Solider:      Ashley    Zaeed & Grunt            James & Ashley
Infilitrator: Garrus    Garrus, Legion, Kasumi   Garrus
Sentinel:     Kaidan    Miranda                  Kaidan
Vanguard:     Wrex      Jacob

Have I missed any out or got them wrong? Surely one of the ME3 squad must fill the biotic role, or were they just creating characters they liked and then picking the appropriate powers afterwards? (not an unreasonable approach IMO) I'm not counting DLC squad members only present during the DLC.

 

Very very weak?... No. Not Asari, but second only to them in terms of biotic power. I take this not just from the games, but the canon books as well. Humans are biotically quite significant. There aren't many human biotics, but most of the examples of human biotics are quite impressive. So yes, we are the jack of all trades. This isn't debatable, not if human biotics is your argument.

 

Javik is a vanguard, not an adept. Still, he's definitely an odd vanguard seeing as all 4 of his powers are biotic. But he gets 500 HP to Liara's pathetic 250 HP, meaning he's meant to be a front line fighter regardless of his power set.

 

You forgot Thane, by the way. He's definitely a vanguard.

[Reorte]

Oops, sorry about missing Thane, thanks! I'll go and edit the post. Still missing an ME3 Vanguard though. Come to think of it that now leaves two in every class other than one Sentinel and three Infiltrators, have I got something else wrong?

Human biotics are uncommon enough to be insignificant, however strong a few individuals are (you wouldn't point to Usain Bolt to represent human sprinting ability, or Einstein to say that we're a race of geniuses). To all practical intents and purposes biotics aren't much of a part of the human skillset. You always get a few individuals that deviate a lot from the norm, e.g. Kirrahe not being your typical salarian, and Garrus pretty much says that about himself and turians.

The humans are jack-of-all-trades thing seems to be quite common among speculative fiction.

[andy6915]

Still missing an ME3 Vanguard though.

...Javik. Again.
 

 

Human biotics are uncommon enough to be insignificant, however strong a few individuals are (you wouldn't point to Usain Bolt to represent human sprinting ability, or Einstein to say that we're a race of geniuses). To all practical intents and purposes biotics aren't much of a part of the human skillset. You always get a few individuals that deviate a lot from the norm, e.g. Kirrahe not being your typical salarian, and Garrus pretty much says that about himself and turians.

 

Human biotics don't got quantity, but they do got quantity. At least from what I know of the canon. Your average human biotic will be stronger than your average turian or krogan or drell biotic. Well, in terms of pure biotic power of course. Obviously I don't mean physically, saying a human is naturally stronger than a krogan in terms of physical strength doesn't even make for a good jest. But biotically? Yeah. Battlemasters are really powerful because of their combination of physical prowess and strength combined with their biotic power, not because their biotic power alone is amazing.