28 replies to this topic

[Khraumas]

"Sex workers" are a essential part of any game for 17+ audiences and adds to the "dark fantasy" element of the game. I'm wondering why they weren't in DAI and hope that they would return in the next DA game. I'm not saying I want a brothel but having characters that are sex workers and exploring the deeper elements of being a sex worker in Thedas would be interesting. In fact, your player character in the next game could start out as a sex worker in an origin story. Imaging having to lead a righteous cause with that background and facing the consequences of it. 

[zeypher]

"Sex workers" are a essential part of any game for 17+ audiences and adds to the "dark fantasy" element of the game. I'm wondering why they weren't in DAI and hope that they would return in the next DA game. I'm not saying I want a brothel but having characters that are sex workers and exploring the deeper elements of being a sex worker in Thedas would be interesting. In fact, your player character in the next game could start out as a sex worker in an origin story. Imaging having to lead a righteous cause with that background and facing the consequences of it. 

You are playing the wrong games and by the wrong developer for the dark fantasy. Bioware is more safe and sterile high fantasy/science fantasy type games.

[Catilina]

"Sex workers" are a essential part of any game for 17+ audiences and adds to the "dark fantasy" element of the game. I'm wondering why they weren't in DAI and hope that they would return in the next DA game. I'm not saying I want a brothel but having characters that are sex workers and exploring the deeper elements of being a sex worker in Thedas would be interesting. In fact, your player character in the next game could start out as a sex worker in an origin story. Imaging having to lead a righteous cause with that background and facing the consequences of it. 

The Skyhold locate (and the fact, that it was ruined a long, long time) was not optimal to start a business. There are relatively few visitors can expect on a top of the mountain. Later when the Inquisition moved into the keep, though undoubtedly would have been a sharp increase in business volumen, but this was not the primary concern (do not forget: the Inquisition not hired neither a lousy hangman; the Inquisitor mined with his own hands – good thing, s/he not needed to milk goats...! ).

 

It would have been interesting option to upgrade the Keep with a brothel. But question: instead for example the infirmary, or the chapel – for the healthy staff / soldiers, and good morale...

[Khraumas]

The Skyhold locate (and the fact, that it was ruined a long, long time) was not optimal to start a business. There are relatively few visitors can expect on a top of the mountain. Later when the Inquisition moved into the keep, though undoubtedly would have been a sharp increase in business volumen, but this was not the primary concern (do not forget: the Inquisition not hired neither a lousy hangman; the Inquisitor mined with his own hands – good thing, s/he not needed to milk goats...! ).

 

It would have been interesting option to upgrade the Keep with a brothel. But question: instead for example the infirmary, or the chapel – for the healthy staff / soldiers, and good morale...

I'm not sure if Skyhold would be the ideal place to have a brothel because it is the headquarters of the Inquisition. But Val Royeaux would be a good place to have a brothel. Perhaps DA4 should have larger cities. But I think Bioware can look beyond brothels and include street sex workers who are more actively a part of the story. For example, they can have street walkers who are also spies or assist the main character, and courtesans, culture women who use their sexuality and art of seduction for personal or political gain among the ruling class. Vivienne is sort of a courtesan because she serves as a mistress to nobles. Sex workers along these lines would be interesting.   

[Captain Wiseass]

I never found them essential.

[thats1evildude]

I suggested a while ago they cut the brothels. Ignoring the somewhat troubling ethics around hiring sex workers, they weren't being done well. The sex scenes weren't titillating and the "special customer" jokes were being recycled from DAO to DA2. Why waste the effort?

[AFA]

I always assumed that Iron Bull or somebody was making a fortune running hookers up to Skyhold. Don't even have to build a structure, just make a few **** tents and you are good to go.

 

What happened to the sex workers? The same thing that happened to desire demons or the dark tone in general. It was all part of sanitizing everything

[nightscrawl]

The Skyhold locate (and the fact, that it was ruined a long, long time) was not optimal to start a business. There are relatively few visitors can expect on a top of the mountain. Later when the Inquisition moved into the keep, though undoubtedly would have been a sharp increase in business volumen, but this was not the primary concern (do not forget: the Inquisition not hired neither a lousy hangman; the Inquisitor mined with his own hands – good thing, s/he not needed to milk goats...! ).
 
It would have been interesting option to upgrade the Keep with a brothel. But question: instead for example the infirmary, or the chapel – for the healthy staff / soldiers, and good morale...

Meh, there are men and women among the troops, and the south is more accepting of homosexuality; you know most of them are doing it. I rather doubt that anyone would be lacking for a partner if they wanted someone to get warm with in the frozen valley. It's stress relief, if nothing else. There are anti-fraternization rules in modern armies as well, but that doesn't actually stop people.

As far as not hiring a hangman, I'm assuming you're referring to the Inquisitor carrying out the executions during the judgements. The whole point of that practice is that it is the Inquisitor who does it, like the same mentality that Ned Stark uses in Game of Thrones: you shouldn't judge someone unless you are prepared to carry out the punishment.

[thats1evildude]

The Inquisitor does delegate to others for some executions, like the mayor of Crestwood.

[Khraumas]

I suggested a while ago they cut the brothels. Ignoring the somewhat troubling ethics around hiring sex workers, they weren't being done well. The sex scenes weren't titillating and the "special customer" jokes were being recycled from DAO to DA2. Why waste the effort?

 

I think they can integrate sex workers more into the main storyline. For example, you can gain influence for helping out a group of sex workers in distress. You might also have to pretend to be a sex worker to infiltrate a place and have to learn some tricks of the trade from sex workers to pass for one. Historically sex workers are not just abused people in cheap brothels, and the next DA game can also allow you to meet some very sophisticated, cultured and influential courtesans, which are based on famous historical ones such as Veronica Franco.

[Khraumas]

You are playing the wrong games and by the wrong developer for the dark fantasy. Bioware is more safe and sterile high fantasy/science fantasy type games.

 

I actually think that DAI has a lot of dark fantasy elements, with far less than perfect endings. The grey warden and templar corruption storylines are both very dark, and the Wicked Hearts and Wicked Eyes quest also has a lot of political intrigue and betrayal with unexpected endings. 

[nightscrawl]

The Inquisitor does delegate to others for some executions, like the mayor of Crestwood.

 

No, sending them off to the jurisdiction that owns the death is not the same thing. In that case, the Inquisitor is allowing Ferelden (or whomever) to have their justice because the Inquisitor deems that appropriate; I believe the tone is there during the judgement to support this. That's not the same as having a headsman execute someone while you watch.

[AFA]

You are playing the wrong games and by the wrong developer for the dark fantasy. Bioware is more safe and sterile high fantasy/science fantasy type games.

 

 

You can still have non-human races and magic-aplenty in dark fantasy (see Witcher Drakengard, and Pillars of Eternity). DAO and DA2 would certainly qualify as dark fantasy IMO, especially 2. Tons less in DAI obviously, were it is only elements

You can still have non-human races and magic-aplenty in dark fantasy (see Witcher Drakengard, and Pillars of Eternity). 

[Captain Wiseass]

the next DA game can also allow you to meet some very sophisticated, cultured and influential courtesans, which are based on famous historical ones such as Veronica Franco.

We kinda already got one of those with Vivienne. Although I don't know if I'd classify that as sex work. But then, there's a lot of class stuff wrapped up in that distinction. It's complicated ground, which is what I'd want to see reflected more than anything else.

[nightscrawl]

We kinda already got one of those with Vivienne. Although I don't know if I'd classify that as sex work. But then, there's a lot of class stuff wrapped up in that distinction. It's complicated ground, which is what I'd want to see reflected more than anything else.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were sexual favors* in the beginning -- all part of The Grande Game, darling -- but she obviously grew to love Bastien later on, and he loved her as well.

 

 

* Dorian heavily implies that this is one of his concerns during the romance, so it's not like it doesn't go on in Tevinter, either.

[vertigomez]

I think they can integrate sex workers more into the main storyline. For example, you can gain influence for helping out a group of sex workers in distress. You might also have to pretend to be a sex worker to infiltrate a place and have to learn some tricks of the trade from sex workers to pass for one. Historically sex workers are not just abused people in cheap brothels, and the next DA game can also allow you to meet some very sophisticated, cultured and influential courtesans, which are based on famous historical ones such as Veronica Franco.

No, thank you.

Didn't we sorta kinda have this with the option to seduce Duke Prosper's son? We heard about Zevran's life... and Rica's, and numerous other characters who have been in that situation. And I guess I'm confused because I really don't get what the point would be. There are already brothels. Sex workers have been mentioned in banter in every single game. Several companions have either had sex for money or have bought sex. Jethann was part of a whole huge questline in DA2. Vivienne is a prominent mistress and Leliana and the HoF have the option as well.

I don't really get what we're supposed to be missing out on, here.

[United Servo Academy Choir]

I never found them essential.

 

I frequently found them hilarious.

 

I have no need for "dark gritty mature srs" stuff like the OP, who really sounds like a very mature player who is definitely doesn't need a parent to buy their games for them, but I miss the gags. I wouldn't mind wandering in there for some hanky panky only to get a finger wagging (rim shot) from a stern chantry sister.

[thats1evildude]

No, sending them off to the jurisdiction that owns the death is not the same thing. In that case, the Inquisitor is allowing Ferelden (or whomever) to have their justice because the Inquisitor deems that appropriate; I believe the tone is there during the judgement to support this. That's not the same as having a headsman execute someone while you watch.

Uh ... An Inquisition solider cuts off the mayor's head with an ax. You watch the cutscene. It takes place at Skyhold. Cullen is in the crowd!

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=5pMZ9HtW864

[Khraumas]

I frequently found them hilarious.

 

I have no need for "dark gritty mature srs" stuff like the OP, who really sounds like a very mature player who is definitely doesn't need a parent to buy their games for them, but I miss the gags. I wouldn't mind wandering in there for some hanky panky only to get a finger wagging (rim shot) from a stern chantry sister.

Oh boy, another poster who says that they are too "mature" to see sex in a video game but feels that name calling and one upmanship makes them seem "mature". This post isn't about wanting a brothel or "hanky panky". Sex work is nothing to joke about, and it is an uncomfortable part of our society that victimizes vulnerable men and women but most people choose to ignore. DA games have a "low" or "dark" fantasy element because they are not completely this black and white story about virtuous heroes against evil. There is a lot of exploring the shady dimensions of life and making less than perfect decisions in a gritty world. Sex workers are a reminder of the less than perfect world that DA is trying to immerse us in. I want them in the game to show how imperfect it is.    

[thats1evildude]

The world seems pretty imperfect to me without the superfluous brothels.

[nightscrawl]

Uh ... An Inquisition solider cuts off the mayor's head with an ax. You watch the cutscene. It takes place at Skyhold. Cullen is in the crowd!

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=5pMZ9HtW864

 

My bad! I really had no idea that was an option o_O.

[Gervaise]

The problem with the brothels and sex worker elements in the previous games is that it wasn't treated seriously enough.   Most of those involved seemed to enjoy their work and it was all nudge, nudge, wink, wink, isn't this a bit of fun.    Whereas the reality is that many sex workers don't have any option but to be there and are often exploited by people with greater power than themselves.    I was always focussed on the number of elves we see wandering around the place in DA2, how Zevran says how attractive humans find them, how they have very few options in the alienage and the likelihood prostitution is the only one made available to them.    Which is probably why Vaughan refers to the elven women in DAO as whores, because that is how many humans do view them.

 

This is actually brought out in WoT2 with regard to Zevran's mother.   Apparently it was the Crows who assassinated her husband and then forced her into prostitution to pay off his outstanding debts and then after she died in childbirth, claimed her son in the same way.   That is appalling but in keeping with the sort of thing that would happen in that sort of setting.      However, it seems that the darker side of Thedas is now being confined to the source books rather than being shown in game.   So if they do bring back brothels, it should be to show the reality of how awful it is to be stuck in the life of a sex worker with little hope of escape, not how fun it is for all concerned.  

[Khraumas]

The problem with the brothels and sex worker elements in the previous games is that it wasn't treated seriously enough.   Most of those involved seemed to enjoy their work and it was all nudge, nudge, wink, wink, isn't this a bit of fun.    Whereas the reality is that many sex workers don't have any option but to be there and are often exploited by people with greater power than themselves.    I was always focussed on the number of elves we see wandering around the place in DA2, how Zevran says how attractive humans find them, how they have very few options in the alienage and the likelihood prostitution is the only one made available to them.    Which is probably why Vaughan refers to the elven women in DAO as whores, because that is how many humans do view them.

 

This is actually brought out in WoT2 with regard to Zevran's mother.   Apparently it was the Crows who assassinated her husband and then forced her into prostitution to pay off his outstanding debts and then after she died in childbirth, claimed her son in the same way.   That is appalling but in keeping with the sort of thing that would happen in that sort of setting.      However, it seems that the darker side of Thedas is now being confined to the source books rather than being shown in game.   So if they do bring back brothels, it should be to show the reality of how awful it is to be stuck in the life of a sex worker with little hope of escape, not how fun it is for all concerned.  

My thoughts exactly. They can even make your player character, like for elf or castless dwarf a sex worker in their origin story. Like you are forced to run off and be an adventurer after accidentally killing an abusive pimp. If this is done well it would allow you to really experience the realistic elements of sex work.

 

I'm not sure if sex workers who seem to enjoy their work is completely unrealistic. You have to act happy, even if you are not happy to attract customers. Or else you'll probably be abused by your pimp. They should show this element in the game as well.  

[thats1evildude]

They're never going to make your character a sex worker. Do you know how much s**t that would stir up? Feminists and conservatives alike would march en masse on Bioware and torch the place.

 

Maybe, MAYBE, they would do a narrative where your character starts out a slave who has to win their freedom. But not a sex slave. Nope.

[Khraumas]

They're never going to make your character a sex worker. Do you know how much s**t that would stir up? Feminists and conservatives alike would march en masse on Bioware and torch the place.

 

Maybe, MAYBE, they would do a narrative where your character starts out a slave who has to win their freedom. But not a sex slave. Nope.

Saying that games can't have sex workers as main characters is like saying there can't be movies where sex workers are the main characters. Plus, it is just one of many origin stories. Plus, I don't see anything wrong with, for example, in DAI an elf inquisitor that escapes his/her shady past to embrace the maker and also wage war against people engaged in human trafficking etc.