18 réponses à ce sujet

[Khraumas]

I know that DA is a medieval fantasy game, but they had a lot of black characters in DAI. I'm Asian and I think it would be great if there are Asian characters in the game. I would not like stereotypical "Asian" characters, but hope that DA would portray them like how they portrayed black characters in DAI, as simply people in Thedas that have no connection with the real world. Perhaps Asian characters would fit well in Tevinter or the Qunari lands, which are more exotic.  

[zeypher]

No, im Indian and i dont really care. I rather they make a proper game rather than pandering to everyone. What is up with people that a game has to have Asians, Blacks, Whites different sexualites etc etc. I rather have a good game i can enjoy and me being a Indian and the game not having one doesnt matter one bit to its enjoyment. 

 

Why does your Race or background matter to a enjoyment of product. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

So i really wish they dont, instead i want them to make the game they want to make rather a focus tested checklist. I want creativity and not focus tested mass appeal beige product.

[Andraste_Reborn]

No, im Indian and i dont really care. I rather they make a proper game rather than pandering to everyone. What is up with people that a game has to have Asians, Blacks, Whites different sexualites etc etc. I rather have a good game i can enjoy and me being a Indian and the game not having one doesnt matter one bit to its enjoyment. 

 

But the game does have an Indian: Dorian. And his father, for that matter. (I mean, obviously Dorian is not from India, he's from Qarinus. Word Of God is that he's the local equivalent of Indian, though.)

 

I don't see any problem with future DA4 games introducing characters with an East Asian appearance the same way if they want to. BioWare have already proved that they can put black and Latin@ and other characters of colour in the game without turning it into a 'mass appeal beige product' so I can't see why characters who share the physical characteristics of East Asians would make any difference in that respect. (Or characters that look like Native Americans, Pacific Islanders or Australian Aboriginals, for that matter.)

 

Alternately, we're heading for a reveal that Thedas takes place on the same planet of Jade Empire and that's where all the East Asians live.

[zeypher]

The reason i dont care is cause all this just distracts from making a good game. What i absolutely care for is a good entertaining game, sex race etc do not even factor in for me. All these posts tend to lead to more spread out development which ends of pleasing no one. Why does a characters skin have to be a specific type to enjoy a game and enjoy the character. Hell this applies to every form of entertainment. Only thing that should matter is "is it good?"

[Andraste_Reborn]

Only thing that should matter is "is it good?"

 

On that we agree. I just don't think a game that had more Asian characters in it would magically become worse somehow.

[zeypher]

On that we agree. I just don't think a game that had more Asian characters in it would magically become worse somehow.

it wont but adding something just to meet racial quota is insulting to the consumer. What matters is quality not matter the form. Generally in their need to be diverse its just a thrown away character to meet the quota and that is insulting to me as a consumer.

 

Problem is since you try to please everybody for sex race etc etc you kinda spread your self thin. Instead of making a quality product the diversification/pandering becomes the goal and not the game. This is what usually happens and the recent examples in gaming prove this point. They become focused on one stupid issue rather than the central issue of "was the game good?".

[Lucidae]

But the game does have an Indian: Dorian. And his father, for that matter. (I mean, obviously Dorian is not from India, he's from Qarinus. Word Of God is that he's the local equivalent of Indian, though.)

I don't see any problem with future DA4 games introducing characters with an East Asian appearance the same way if they want to. BioWare have already proved that they can put black and Latin@ and other characters of colour in the game without turning it into a 'mass appeal beige product' so I can't see why characters who share the physical characteristics of East Asians would make any difference in that respect. (Or characters that look like Native Americans, Pacific Islanders or Australian Aboriginals, for that matter.)

Alternately, we're heading for a reveal that Thedas takes place on the same planet of Jade Empire and that's where all the East Asians live.

Dorian's voice actor was Indian, but he was not meant to represent Asian people at all. Have you ever seen an Indian man look like Dorian? Because I haven't. If Dorian was truly meant to be Indian then that was some offensive white washing. Dorian had much darker features than many characters but he doesn't really look Indian.

[Captain Wiseass]

Dorian is Tevinter, which corresponds to Mediterranean Europe.

 

Bioware could introduce people who look like West, Central, South, or East Asian ethnicities (or, for that matter, Hispanic, Australian Aboriginal, or American First Nations), but they'd have to have a place for them to come from. Then again, we've never seen what the indigenous people of Seheron and the other Boeric islands look like, and there's all that land west of the Anderfels and east of the Amaranthine.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

David Gaider when asked about this when he still worked at Bioware said that he had no problem having Asian people in the Dragon Age franchise, but it had to make sense with what has been set up already. So instead of them just suddenly being in the populace, there would have to be a story for their integration, like there being some who came to Thedas recently in exploration vessels. With DAI having that War Table questline about Those Across The Sea and them possibly getting involved in Thedas in future games, that could be the thing that works to bring Asian people into Thedas. 

[AFA]

The Qunari are stand-ins for the near East and Arabs, Persians, and Turks already. But as noted above, the people from across the sea could work.

[Asdrubael Vect]

David Gaider when asked about this when he still worked at Bioware said that he had no problem having Asian people in the Dragon Age franchise, but it had to make sense with what has been set up already. So instead of them just suddenly being in the populace, there would have to be a story for their integration, like there being some who came to Thedas recently in exploration vessels.

yeah and darkskinned ones humans(i am not even talking about some nonhumans what is totally ridiculous) like Dennet and Vivienne(and she was the only one who was rivanian, others not ever have such explanation), Barris, Giselle ones "was not appear in Thedas from nowhere" in DAI ferelden and Orlais

 

they was have zero integration and zero sense if we would be honest, by the lore and history of Thedas humans they could not have such diversity

 

the only darkskinned one Thedas population was kossiths, rivanians was just a tanned humans for 2 games and all comics

 

bio was just start to put something in Thedas for the sense of just be there to please someone but when they do such to stop some whining they never have put some sense and explanation of such changes

 

 

Bio should stop to add something for fill the quota thing, at least they should do such things like The Witcher games and others did

[Andraste_Reborn]

Dorian's voice actor was Indian, but he was not meant to represent Asian people at all.

 

Yes he was.

 

Have you ever seen an Indian man look like Dorian?

 

Yes, I have. Since it would be creepy to post pictures of my former co-worker with the same skin tone as Dorian in this thread: he looks like a male equivalent of Aishwarya Rai. They've even got the same eye colour!

 

My theory is that Dorian's mother was from Western Tevinter where people are paler, or at least she had ancestors from there. That would account for his having fairer skin than his father.

[Khraumas]

yeah and darkskinned ones humans(i am not even talking about some nonhumans what is totally ridiculous) like Dennet and Vivienne(and she was the only one who was rivanian, others not ever have such explanation), Barris, Giselle ones "was not appear in Thedas from nowhere" in DAI ferelden and Orlais

 

they was have zero integration and zero sense if we would be honest, by the lore and history of Thedas humans they could not have such diversity

 

the only darkskinned one Thedas population was kossiths, rivanians was just a tanned humans for 2 games and all comics

 

bio was just start to put something in Thedas for the sense of just be there to please someone but when they do such to stop some whining they never have put some sense and explanation of such changes

 

 

Bio should stop to add something for fill the quota thing, at least they should do such things like The Witcher games and others did

I don't think it is just about filling a racial quota. Recent studies in world history has shown that there was more contact between far away cultures in pre-modern times than we previously thought. Roman merchants were constantly in India by sailing across the Indian Ocean. The Romans even sent an embassy to China in 100 AD. There were many cases of Chinese and other Asian people living in Egypt during ancient and Islamic times. Arabs and Persians sailed across the Indian Ocean from AD 500-1000 and the southern tip of China has a large Islamic population because of this. Lots of Central Asian people also came to Europe from AD 400 to 1200, and the Chinese even explored East Africa in the 1400s (They are rumored to have even gone to North America). Of course DA is fantasy, but having an ethically diverse population in a continent with a vast coastline is not unrealistic. 

[Asdrubael Vect]

I don't think it is just about filling a racial quota. Recent studies in world history has shown that there was more contact between far away cultures in pre-modern times than we previously thought. Roman merchants were constantly in India by sailing across the Indian Ocean. The Romans even sent an embassy to China in 100 AD. There were many cases of Chinese and other Asian people living in Egypt during ancient and Islamic times. Arabs and Persians sailed across the Indian Ocean from AD 500-1000 and the southern tip of China has a large Islamic population because of this. Lots of Central Asian people also came to Europe from AD 400 to 1200, and the Chinese even explored East Africa in the 1400s (They are rumored to have even gone to North America). Of course DA is fantasy, but having an ethically diverse population in a continent with a vast coastline is not unrealistic. 

It is as with filling "orientation" quota in DAI as would be in DA4, and they not care to explanation and sense when they do such...they just retcon or simply leave as they do no matter of how this is not make sense

 

Thedas-known DA lands are not the same as Earth planet(and DnD universe as others was far far larger) on such matters, they not large as not have much population and known humans was widespread from just one source-modern Tevinter Imperium lands where they have 4 kingdoms who became 1 Ancient Tevinter Imperium

 

humans of Rivain, Antiva, Anderfels, Ferelden, Orlais, Free Marches was a descendants of a Ancient Tevinter lands-colonies humans, some non-ancient tevinter human natives(like avvars tribes) who lived there was still from 4 Tevinter kingdoms lands anyway too

 

for milenia human race in Thedas was cross breeding and everyone have some elven blood(so every human have dreams and could have mage child) since ancient Tevinter time...they simply cant have so much diversity, it is just few millions humans in whole Thedas

 

Thedas humans are lefted with tanned northens(Tevinters, Antivans and Rivanians like Duncan and Isabella) humans or not tanned-pale southerns humans and thats all..it is just a matter of sun and weather activity what is affects their apperience but it could not change their racial apperience, only make their skin more tanned or less, other difference is that some have their own language but still they was have ancient tevinter language as dwarven trade language before they have their new ones like orlais and antivans ones

 

dark skinned humans in Thedas like Vivienne, Ferelden Barris and Orlais Giselle could not exist cos they not have any source for them to be(Thedas not have such known lands and connection of humans with such lands as humans race exist for 10.000 years after veil, they was not evolve for millions of years), even if it was milenia ago they was gone long ago cos of cross breading and biology as demography reasons, as with wars and death reasons what was plenty in Thedas history

 

the same with "asians" and all others, there should be logic. sense and explanation, and bio does not do such, they simply add something for pleasing someone no matter how ridiculous that could be

 

 

The point that in DA concept those never existed in Thedas as never was in 2 games and comics, and they could not now by the simple Thedas lore(devs would need to change to much if they want to integrate them in universe), logic and sense with biology,

 

for now their only solution is to retcon lore or if they are would be members from other continents but bio never have content with such matters exept some mentioning of some kingdom from far far away, and they are not cover and show much of known Thedas lands

 

So it would be better if devs will do like The Witcher games did on such matters

[zeypher]

Ignore the progressive idiots and stick to their guns of doing what they want with their game and setting. I am paying to enjoy their creativity and their vision, not someone else's. 

[Melyanna]

OK, this sounds suspiciously like a troll post, but let's try to turn it into a constructive discussion.

First of all... "pandering to certain audiences":
 

Being inclusive isn't pandering. And representing a variety of different skin colours and racial traits can be done without it being tokenism.
All you have to do is look around and portray people the way you see them around you.
And sure, one can try to argue that "Dragon Age" is a fantasy franchise, which is true, but it takes inspiration from the real world: characters are human like and are written to walk, talk, and express feelings like humans do. And surely humans aren't all identical clones of the same white guy?

The "I just want to make sure that they make a good game and aren't distracted by these things" argument:

First of all, inclusion and quality aren't mutually exclusive. It's not like the team in charge of gameplay has to stop every now and then and go and design a character, draw textures and take care of the 3D models.
And working on a texture of white skin or on one of any other different colour takes the exact same amount of time.

Also, I'd argue that games with diverse characters have a higher quality than games where everyone looks like the same white dude.

Last but not least, the "It's just a token character, it's actually offensive". Sure, tokenism is offensive, but you don't have to do it like that.
You don't sit down and go "let's put a single black character in the game", you represent the world. This is how you avoid tokenism.

Since you can definitely make an asian looking character in the Inquisition chargen, it seems natural to also have asian looking NPCs.

[zeypher]

Firstly its a sentence and know exactly what it means. Name me one game that didnt suffer from a quality drop because the devs had a mandatory racial quota to fulfill. What more i find offensive actually is that you think other races need to be represented. Ive never asked for that and there are billion others who have not. So until then please dont force your social justice down other peoples throat.

 

You want to add something then do it so it actually makes the game better and makes logical sense with the confines of the games and the settings rules, not because you have a racial quota to meet. That is my preference which i have already mentioned above but you just got stuck on pandering and completely missed the point.

 

Should also note that a asian or black is just not a matter of skin color. Its also their respective values and culture but you seem to be so superficial that you are just stuck on color. Which is why i rather avoid this whole things since many fail to grasp that there is more to a person than their skin color and fall to plain on tokenism.

 

Hell if you are so into the social justice then take bioware to task why is Andromeda protagonist named after first american woman in space and not the first woman is space Valentina Tereshkova. Face it that our culture and where we live, history etc influence us greatly and since they do i want a game/product that accepts that and becomes the best thing it can be. This allows me/consumer to enjoy products of various cultures and appreciate them for their own style.

[Andraste_Reborn]

Name me one game that didnt suffer from a quality drop because the devs had a mandatory racial quota to fulfill.

 

I can't think of any games that had a mandatory racial quota to fulfill in the first place. As far as I know, nobody ever held a gun to a developer's head and forced them to put characters of particular races into their products. Nor are there any laws about it, to the best of my knowledge.

 

I can think of lots of games that have a bunch of people of colour in them and don't seem to suffer for it. Off the top of my head - Grim Fandango, Telltale's The Walking Dead games, Shadowrun: Hong Kong, Broken Age, Always Sometimes Monsters, Technobabylon and obviously Jade Empire. Dragon Age: Inqusition had a more racially diverse cast than the previous DA games and I thought it was even better than the first two. I can't think of any reason why DA4 would be different in that regard.

[zeypher]

I can't think of any games that had a mandatory racial quota to fulfill in the first place. As far as I know, nobody ever held a gun to a developer's head and forced them to put characters of particular races into their products. Nor are there any laws about it, to the best of my knowledge.

 

I can think of lots of games that have a bunch of people of colour in them and don't seem to suffer for it. Off the top of my head - Grim Fandango, Telltale's The Walking Dead games, Shadowrun: Hong Kong, Broken Age, Always Sometimes Monsters, Technobabylon and obviously Jade Empire. Dragon Age: Inqusition had a more racially diverse cast than the previous DA games and I thought it was even better than the first two. I can't think of any reason why DA4 would be different in that regard.

You know what i meant. My main problem is does it fit the setting lore etc. It fit perfectly for shadowrun (Cyber punk/magitech) and walking dead (source material already has it and thus there was no need to add anything to meet a quota) so bad examples. Does it fit for dragon age setting? atm no. It depends on each setting and each setting is different. If you setting allows then why not go ahead. 

 

Basically it should make sense thematically from the games setting point of view. If you are going to do it then do it well or dont bother. There is no middle ground.

 

Final point this issue seems to be present only in sword and magic medieval type settings only. Present and future based settings do not have this issue as there is more than enough integration travel etc etc.  I honestly do not see a way to resolve this in a good manner so let it be and accept it for what it is. 

 

Even then if bioware want to do it they atleast have a lot more freedom with dragon age than some other devs do with their medieval fantasy series. Just a question but can we even call them "Asian" in a game setting that has no Asia. So they have to find a new name as well for a group of humans who have their own culture similar to real world Asians? and then explain the reasoning's for why that is as well. Elder scrolls have the Tsaesci.

 

I hope my posts explain why then just adding for color is a bad idea if its not explained how that group came to be. In todays world is easy to explain due to travel, immigration etc. Just adding something haphazardly is tokenism.