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[Catilina]

Her parents have already decided to keep and protect and not disown her for becoming pregnant out of wedlock, so it's far less uncertain than her prospects with Malcolm, and Leandra literally grew up in the shadows of both the Chantry cathedral and the Viscount's keep in the most regulated part of the city. The idea of the government "not being particularly hard to hide from" wouldn't come easily to her.

Therefore she should have to choose to stay with her parents, and her mage-child to hand over to the Circle. What a wonderful idea! I'm surprised she did not choose this one!

[ThomasBlaine]

Therefore she should have to choose to stay with her parents, and her mage-child to hand over to the Circle. What a wonderful idea! I'm surprised she did not choose this one!

 

It's hilarious how much more sense you make when you're actually trying to be sarcastic.

[Captain Wiseass]

Thomas, I'm having a hard time picking out the point of your argument. Leandra running away with Malcolm was... what, exactly? Morally wrong? Hard for me to see that, given that the net effect to the Amell family was social embarrassment, which isn't great, but doesn't rise to the level of significant harm in my mind. Foolish? Well, yeah, but it's hardly the first time someone's done something foolish for love, in fiction or reality, and it doesn't strike me as something to get angry about. And really, as that person, in that situation, what other choice would you expect her to make?

[Qun00]

"Other people are foolish too" isn't an argument against it being foolish, now is it.

Leandra is free to throw herself into the unknown, but when there is a child on the way you have to consider what kind of life s/he will be born into.

However, I have to wonder if there is a middle ground solution. Would it be impossible for Malcolm to hide his powers and get a job in Kirkwall?

You can't recognize a mage just by looking.

[Xilizhra]

"Other people are foolish too" isn't an argument against it being foolish, now is it.

Leandra is free to throw herself into the unknown, but when there is a child on the way you have to consider what kind of life s/he will be born into.

However, I have to wonder if there is a middle ground solution. Would it be impossible for Malcolm to hide his powers and get a job in Kirkwall?

You can't recognize a mage just by looking.

Aristide had already figured out who he was; he couldn't have hidden in the city.

[Qun00]

Aristide who?

[Xilizhra]

Aristide who?

Leandra's father.

[Catilina]

"Other people are foolish too" isn't an argument against it being foolish, now is it.

Leandra is free to throw herself into the unknown, but when there is a child on the way you have to consider what kind of life s/he will be born into.

However, I have to wonder if there is a middle ground solution. Would it be impossible for Malcolm to hide his powers and get a job in Kirkwall?

You can't recognize a mage just by looking.

I do not think, Kirkwall would be a good idea, they knew Malcolm. (He was in the Kirkwalls's Circle) What's wrong with Ferelden? Malcolm have some money, the question: Leandra's parents why had not give money to their daughter?If they were care her, they would have helped. Not the way they like, but the way is good. 

[Qun00]

Kirkwall's Circle? Isn't he often referred to as "that Fereldan apostate"?

[Catilina]

Kirkwall's Circle? Isn't he often referred to as "that Fereldan apostate"?

Yes, he was in Kirkwall's Circle. He was  born in Ferelden.

[Spirit Vanguard]

Perhaps the bigger picture here is how mages are viewed. If mages weren’t regulated by the Chantry, slandered as “apostates” for fighting Chantry sovereignty, or if the Amells hadn’t seen magic as a “stain on their lineage” then Leandra’s and Malcolm’s marriage could’ve been different. They could’ve potentially accepted her love of Malcolm and not disowned her for wanting to just be with him and thus force her to run away. Her being nobility is also part of the issue as they don’t often have the “luxury” of marrying for love – but if she was their favorite, who knows what could’ve happened.

[thats1evildude]

And really, as that person, in that situation, what other choice would you expect her to make?

Enter an unhappy arranged marriage and develop a drinking problem?

[Iakus]

Clearly it is not his fault, that he spent the family wealth to whores and gambling... It could be just a accident. (Okay, the bad investments was not entirely his fault. It could just simple his stupidity.) However, this does not sober up him: Gamlen constantly spend his time in the brothel.

WoT Volume 2 shows that Gamlen had a hard life.  part of it was poor decisions on his part.  But some of it was simple bad luck.  Doesn't excuse his excesses.  But it does kinda explain how he go to this state.  He';s actually kinda worthy of pity.

 

Reuniting him with Charade is probably one of the nicest things Hawke can do in the whole game

[Catilina]

WoT Volume 2 shows that Gamlen had a hard life.  part of it was poor decisions on his part.  But some of it was simple bad luck.  Doesn't excuse his excesses.  But it does kinda explain how he go to this state.  He';s actually kinda worthy of pity.

 

Reuniting him with Charade is probably one of the nicest things Hawke can do in the whole game

As I said, Uncle Gamlen a dick, but yes, I agree.

[Iakus]

Enter an unhappy arranged marriage and develop a drinking problem?

Wasn't she betrothed to Guillame de Launcet?

 

This could have been Carver!

 

 http://vignette2.wik...&path-prefix=de

[sniper_arrow]

Perhaps the bigger picture here is how mages are viewed. If mages weren’t regulated by the Chantry, slandered as “apostates” for fighting Chantry sovereignty, or if the Amells hadn’t seen magic as a “stain on their lineage” then Leandra’s and Malcolm’s marriage could’ve been different. They could’ve potentially accepted her love of Malcolm and not disowned her for wanting to just be with him and thus force her to run away. Her being nobility is also part of the issue as they don’t often have the “luxury” of marrying for love – but if she was their favorite, who knows what could’ve happened.

 

Leandra was her parents' favorite. In WoT2, it said that they lavished her with gifts and all things most girls wanted. In other words, they more or less spoiled her.

[Spirit Vanguard]

Leandra was her parents' favorite. In WoT2, it said that they lavished her with gifts and all things most girls wanted. In other words, they more or less spoiled her.

 

I didn't mean "if" in the literal sense. I meant more as a definition of their devotion, like: "if they truly loved her that much..."

[sniper_arrow]

I didn't mean "if" in the literal sense. I meant more as a definition of their devotion, like: "if they truly loved her that much..."

 

If they really didn't love her that much, I think they wouldn't spent the rest of their lives in depression. 

[Spirit Vanguard]

If they really didn't love her that much, I think they wouldn't spent the rest of their lives in depression. 

 

I was referring to the hypothetical situation of my post, not canon.

[workforme]

This is silly they never really did disown Lenadra, and want her to inherit not Gamlen.

[Illegitimus]

Hehe, I literally didn't say any of that.

 

 

I don't care how "decent" a "chunk of change" he'd saved up from mercenary pay, it shouldn't have been enough to elope to another country without any prospects in the slightest and start a family with a noblewoman who wouldn't work on, and Malcolm escaping with the help of one sympathetic templar doesn't change the reality of a continent-spanning inquisition with dozens of trained killers in every major town wanting him dead for being a danger to society.

 

Imagine a modern young teenage woman from the States running away to the Middle East with a particularly nice ISIS operative on the pay he saved from illegal immigrant labor. For "love". And by that I mean to compare the recklessness of her decision, not how evil or whatever he may or may not be.

 

Hyperbole.  It's been weakening arguments since the Sun first coalesced out of the cosmic dust.   The reality of course is that Templars rarely try to kill apostates.  They're a somewhat valuable resource and (as long as they aren't known blood mages) they aren't analogous to members of ISIS.   Nor can he accurately be described as having no prospects.  The truth is, his skills are greatly in demand where ever he goes even if he doesn't use his capital for a business start-up.  Trained apostates who don't rock the boat and have employment with nobles, mercenaries, Dalish tribes, and merchants don't seem to attract much Templar attention even in Kirkwall although I'd be sure to get an Orlesian nobleman's backing if I were to hang in Orlais as an apostate.  

 

So a proportionate analogy would be something like "a computer programmer and hacker who has to leave the country because of an outstanding arrest warrant".  Still not a particularly optimum choice for a spouse when measured in practical terms.  Particularly since it leaves the folks with just Gamlen to carry on the family estate.  

[ThomasBlaine]

Hyperbole.  It's been weakening arguments since the Sun first coalesced out of the cosmic dust.   The reality of course is that Templars rarely try to kill apostates.  They're a somewhat valuable resource and (as long as they aren't known blood mages) they aren't analogous to members of ISIS.   Nor can he accurately be described as having no prospects.  The truth is, his skills are greatly in demand where ever he goes even if he doesn't use his capital for a business start-up.  Trained apostates who don't rock the boat and have employment with nobles, mercenaries, Dalish tribes, and merchants don't seem to attract much Templar attention even in Kirkwall although I'd be sure to get an Orlesian nobleman's backing if I were to hang in Orlais as an apostate.  

 

So a proportionate analogy would be something like "a computer programmer and hacker who has to leave the country because of an outstanding arrest warrant".  Still not a particularly optimum choice for a spouse when measured in practical terms.  Particularly since it leaves the folks with just Gamlen to carry on the family estate.  

 

Absolutely none of which is part of the public image of mages, making it irrelevant to Leandra's decision. Assuming that she didn't have extensive personal experience with Kirkwall's underworld as a teenager. The terrorist comparison is totally unnecessary, really. Any young woman who got herself pregnant by and subsequently skipped state lines with any kind of criminal would automatically be considered moronic and irresponsible in the extreme, and would certainly not have the right to throw stones returning twenty or twenty-five years later to find her inheritance long spent.

[Catilina]

Absolutely none of which is part of the public image of mages, making it irrelevant to Leandra's decision. Assuming that she didn't have extensive personal experience with Kirkwall's underworld as a teenager. The terrorist comparison is totally unnecessary, really. Any young woman who got herself pregnant by and subsequently skipped state lines with any kind of criminal would automatically be considered moronic and irresponsible in the extreme, and would certainly not have the right to throw stones returning twenty or twenty-five years later to find her inheritance long spent.

Ok, sarcasm off. Idiot.

[ThomasBlaine]

Ok, sarcasm off. Idiot.

 

Okay...? Right. I'm sure your English teachers did their best.

[Catilina]

Look, Leandra's decision may not be called a wise decision. But this is exaggeration: "Any young woman who got herself pregnant by and subsequently skipped state lines with any kind of criminal would automatically be considered moronic"

 

And, of course, Gamlen is pure as the virgin snow.