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Gamlen's "Hovel" in Low-Town


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#101
Illegitimus

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Absolutely none of which is part of the public image of mages, making it irrelevant to Leandra's decision.

 

 

Leandra's part of a family that regularly sprouts mages.  Her family might regard her as foolish for running off with one because of the possibility that she'll lose her husband to bad luck putting him on the wrong side of the templars and the increased risk of producing mage offspring and but upset that they may never see their little girl again, but they aren't going to buy into the public image of mages.  And even the public image of mages seems to usually be "those guys should be regarded with wariness, but can be helpful."  At least before Anders does his thing.   



#102
ThomasBlaine

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Look, Leandra's decision may not be called a wise decision. But this is exaggeration: "Any young woman who got herself pregnant by and subsequently skipped state lines with any kind of criminal would automatically be considered moronic"

 

And, of course, Gamlen is pure as the virgin snow.

 

Nope, no exaggerations there.

 

And it's funny how you're the only one here going on about how Gamlen is oh so innocent. Nobody else has indicated anything even remotely like it, and yet you keep hammering on it, stating that Gamlen isn't perfect over and over again for no apparent reason as if that somehow lessens Leandra's stupidity.

 

Leandra's part of a family that regularly sprouts mages.  Her family might regard her as foolish for running off with one because of the possibility that she'll lose her husband to bad luck putting him on the wrong side of the templars and the increased risk of producing mage offspring and but upset that they may never see their little girl again, but they aren't going to buy into the public image of mages.  And even the public image of mages seems to usually be "those guys should be regarded with wariness, but can be helpful."  At least before Anders does his thing.   

 

What do you mean, "regularly spouts mages"? The Amell Warden couldn't possibly have been taken to the circle until way after Leandra left Kirkwall or they'd be in their thirties in DAO with Jowan somehow being even older, and it isn't until even later that the other Amell cousins are discovered to be mages. And the whole thing eventually costs Aristide the Viscountcy.  There's no way he wouldn't have been terrified of being associated with mages and raised his children accordingly.



#103
SmilesJA

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The inheritance rightly belongs to Leandra, yet Gamelen wastes it away without even telling her,



#104
Catilina

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Nope, no exaggerations there.

 

And it's funny how you're the only one here going on about how Gamlen is oh so innocent. Nobody else has indicated anything even remotely like it, and yet you keep hammering on it, stating that Gamlen isn't perfect over and over again for no apparent reason as if that somehow lessens Leandra's stupidity.

Because it's a Gamlen topic, not a "look-at-this-Leandra-girl-how-silly-filly!" topic. And you wrote, Gamlen was right because Leandra mindless, crazy little girl.

And I can turn:  Leandra's "stupidity" not lessens Gamlen's failure. Whatever happened, Gamlen should have to notify his sister of her heritage, not to waste it.

And last but not least: which sibling was more responsible Gamlen or Leandra? Leandra fairly raised three children (whith this "dangerous heretical criminal"), Gamlen lost the family heritage, lost his pregnant wife ...



#105
ThomasBlaine

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Because it's a Gamlen topic, not a "look-at-this-Leandra-girl-how-silly-filly!" topic. And you wrote, Gamlen was right because Leandra mindless, crazy little girl.

And I can turn:  Leandra's "stupidity" not lessens Gamlen's failure. Whatever happened, Gamlen should have to notify his sister of her heritage, not to waste it.

And last but not least: which sibling was more responsible Gamlen or Leandra? Leandra fairly raised three children (whith this "dangerous heretical criminal"), Gamlen lost the family heritage, lost his pregnant wife ...

 

Leandra's lack of conscientiousness and foresight is relevant to how much it's fair to blame Gamlen for his actions. Nobody is saying that he's right and that she's crazy, just that he isn't nearly as wrong as people give him credit for and that she doesn't deserve to be viewed as any more deserving of the money than he was. That you can't wrap you head around this distinction and have to just make **** up to pretend to understand people's arguments is tragic, but please stop it. You're just wasting space and confusing yourself.

 

And basically playing nursemaid for 25 years, doing absolutely none of the work, making no effort to even assist your loved ones in surviving and in fact relying on them to take care of you throughout your entire life because that's what you feel entitled to isn't "responsible".



#106
Xilizhra

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Leandra's lack of conscientiousness and foresight is relevant to how much it's fair to blame Gamlen for his actions. Nobody is saying that he's right and that she's crazy, just that he isn't nearly as wrong as people give him credit for and that she doesn't deserve to be viewed as any more deserving of the money than he was. That you can't wrap you head around this distinction and have to just make **** up to pretend to understand people's arguments is tragic, but please stop it. You're just wasting space and confusing yourself.

 

And basically playing nursemaid for 25 years, doing absolutely none of the work, making no effort to even assist your loved ones in surviving and in fact relying on them to take care of you throughout your entire life because that's what you feel entitled to isn't "responsible".

All we're blaming him for is being a liar and a thief. Which he is. You also seem to have bizarrely off ideas about how much work it takes to raise three children; it's rather a lot.


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#107
Beerfish

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What the hell is wallop, anyway? Is it croquet? When I hear "wallop," I imagine people hitting each other with mallets.

 

EDIT: I asked David Gaider and he said it's croquet.

Yeah the wallop mallet looked like a croquet stick.  Ah yes, memories of playing 'killer croquet' at the lake years ago.



#108
Captain Wiseass

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Accepting for the sake of this post that what Leandra did was wrong, it doesn't make what Gamlen did any more or less wrong in itself. She didn't *make* him drink and gamble away their inheritance; that was his choice, just like running off with Malcolm was hers.



#109
Catilina

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Yes, it's both was Leandra's and Gamlen's choices, fault and whatever, but we can't forget: the parent's will was clear: Leandra and her children inherit the family wealth. This was not an illogical decision from a noble man and woman: only Leandra has children, who may continue the family bloodline. (In addition, not entirely inconceivable that they saw how much dependable is Gamlen.)



#110
ThomasBlaine

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All we're blaming him for is being a liar and a thief. Which he is. You also seem to have bizarrely off ideas about how much work it takes to raise three children; it's rather a lot.

 

Yes, indeed, helping to raise three children must have been such a burden for her while her husband provided for the entire family despite risking imprisonment every time he left the house and personally kept it in order because helping with that would have been beneath her. Imagine, she couldn't even watch DVDs during naptime!

 

Yes, it's both was Leandra's and Gamlen's choices, fault and whatever, but we can't forget: the parent's will was clear: Leandra and her children inherit the family wealth. This was not an illogical decision from a noble man and woman: only Leandra has children, who may continue the family bloodline. (In addition, not entirely inconceivable that they saw how much dependable is Gamlen.)

 

Okay, A: Gamlen must have been in his twenties when their parents died and Leandra was eloped with a criminal - which was publicly known in Kirkwall - and living in a foreign country with a small child and two on the way. There's no conceivable way she could have come home to become mistress of the manor while her husband still lived, and it was way too early to consider Gamlen a lost cause. If the Amells were so insistent on a sensible heir then they should have raised their children better or had more of them.

 

B: Leandra's relationship with Malcolm did make the Hawkes' will illegal. She was a criminal known to harbor an apostate. Her parents might have forgiven her, but the Kirkwall templars certainly wouldn't have stood for the known consort of a high-profile mage escapee from their own circle worming her way into the city's power structure while they were doing the exact same thing. In fact, this was most likely how Gamlen got around the will in the first place. Based on this point alone you have to consider the possibility of the Amells having gone senile, which would also have been monstrously unfair to Gamlen.



#111
Xilizhra

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Yes, indeed, helping to raise three children must have been such a burden for her while her husband provided for the entire family despite risking imprisonment every time he left the house and personally kept it in order because helping with that would have been beneath her. Imagine, she couldn't even watch DVDs during naptime!

Um, what? Aside from the fact that women who didn't do work at all were actually quite rare outside the actual aristocracy (leaving your aspersions regarding Leandra based on basically nothing, since she wasn't an aristocrat while married to Malcolm), I think you're still underestimating the amount of energy parenting claims.

 

 

Okay, A: Gamlen must have been in his twenties when their parents died and Leandra was eloped with a criminal - which was publicly known in Kirkwall - and living in a foreign country with a small child and two on the way. There's no conceivable way she could have come home to become mistress of the manor while her husband still lived, and it was way too early to consider Gamlen a lost cause. If the Amells were so insistent on a sensible heir then they should have raised their children better or had more of them.

You act like this matters. I mean, if you're right, Gamlen could possibly have just told Leandra about the will and Leandra would have told Gamlen that he can live there, yes, so long as he didn't lose everything. Gamlen really has very little to lose by being honest.



#112
Illegitimus

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Yes, indeed, helping to raise three children must have been such a burden for her while her husband provided for the entire family despite risking imprisonment every time he left the house and personally kept it in order because helping with that would have been beneath her. Imagine, she couldn't even watch DVDs during naptime!

 

 

What's that picture of how they lived based on?  



#113
thats1evildude

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B: Leandra's relationship with Malcolm did make the Hawkes' will illegal. She was a criminal known to harbor an apostate. Her parents might have forgiven her, but the Kirkwall templars certainly wouldn't have stood for the known consort of a high-profile mage escapee from their own circle worming her way into the city's power structure while they were doing the exact same thing.

 

You'll forgive me if I don't trust your interpretation of Thedas' inheritance laws.


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#114
Iakus

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Accepting for the sake of this post that what Leandra did was wrong, it doesn't make what Gamlen did any more or less wrong in itself. She didn't *make* him drink and gamble away their inheritance; that was his choice, just like running off with Malcolm was hers.

Gamlen was wrong.  But in fairness he did not drink and gamble away all of the inheritance.  in WoT 2, it says that Gamlen lost much if it due to several misfortunes, not all of them were of his doing.

 

 

You act like this matters. I mean, if you're right, Gamlen could possibly have just told Leandra about the will and Leandra would have told Gamlen that he can live there, yes, so long as he didn't lose everything. Gamlen really has very little to lose by being honest.

True.  But I imagine Gamlen was also very very angry.  If it's true that he did care for both his parents in their old age, being the dutiful son and having his efforts go entirely without recognition, well, it makes his actions more understandable.



#115
Captain Wiseass

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Yes, indeed, helping to raise three children must have been such a burden for her while her husband provided for the entire family despite risking imprisonment every time he left the house and personally kept it in order because helping with that would have been beneath her. Imagine, she couldn't even watch DVDs during naptime!

You seem to have Leandra confused with Peg Bundy.



#116
thats1evildude

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You seem to have Leandra confused with Peg Bundy.

 

Maaaaaaalcolm! Let's have seeeeeex! :P


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#117
Xilizhra

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True.  But I imagine Gamlen was also very very angry.  If it's true that he did care for both his parents in their old age, being the dutiful son and having his efforts go entirely without recognition, well, it makes his actions more understandable.

Right... but punishing Leandra for that makes no sense. I mean, I can understand the emotions behind it, but that doesn't make the action excusable or sympathetic.



#118
ThomasBlaine

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What's that picture of how they lived based on?  

 

Um, what? Aside from the fact that women who didn't do work at all were actually quite rare outside the actual aristocracy (leaving your aspersions regarding Leandra based on basically nothing, since she wasn't an aristocrat while married to Malcolm), I think you're still underestimating the amount of energy parenting claims.

 

Leandra is definitely "actual aristocracy" through and through, and we know that she neither cleaned nor made any attempt to provide for herself during her entire first year back in Kirkwall with her children, while having nothing better to do. That makes her attitude towards housework pretty damn clear, and the idea of her living as a normal peasant wife doing her share of the work is completely inconsistent with what we actually see of her. In fact, if noble ladies' average level of involvement with their children wasn't kept vague in the games I'd cast my doubts that she did her duty there either.

 

Hilarious, the way we're all the products of hundreds of generations of babies raised in the dirt by uneducated, undernourished, overgrown chimps who foraged and hunted and crafted and cooked every day of their lives on top of nanny duty, and now all of a sudden child-rearing in and of itself is the hardest job in the world and takes everything a person has. While maintaining a fortune as a young, disgraced aristocrat in a city caving in on itself is obviously child's play and you'd have to be a useless idiot to mess that up - and would deserve to be treated as such. Mhm.

 

You act like this matters. I mean, if you're right, Gamlen could possibly have just told Leandra about the will and Leandra would have told Gamlen that he can live there, yes, so long as he didn't lose everything. Gamlen really has very little to lose by being honest.

 

Then what are we even arguing about? If the only letter Gamlen could send on the subject was "Okay, mommy and daddy suddenly changed their minds and left everything to you, but since you obviously can't show your face here and I quite frankly feel royally screwed over, I hope you don't mind that I take what's rightfully mine and do what I can with it." then what did anyone have to gain by it being sent? It's a dick move, sure, not telling her about their parents' forgiveness, but it's not like he's stealing anything that actually belongs to her or which she would expect to ever have the use of.

 

It's not "punishing" her, she doesn't lose anything and in fact lives on blissfully unaware until disaster strikes three decades later and she makes the decision to return which is stupid for all sorts of other reasons. Just because the Hawkes get their hopes up and are disappointed doesn't mean he did something terrible or personal to hurt them.



#119
Xilizhra

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Leandra is definitely "actual aristocracy" through and through, and we know that she neither cleaned nor made any attempt to provide for herself during her entire first year back in Kirkwall with her children, while having nothing better to do. That makes her attitude towards housework pretty damn clear, and the idea of her living as a normal peasant wife doing her share of the work is completely inconsistent with what we actually see of her. In fact, if noble ladies' average level of involvement with their children wasn't kept vague in the games I'd cast my doubts that she did her duty there either.

I've done the same thing when I've been in the throes of depression, and I'm not even an aristocrat. It doesn't necessarily define one's entire character.

 

 

Hilarious, the way we're all the products of hundreds of generations of babies raised in the dirt by uneducated, undernourished, overgrown chimps who foraged and hunted and crafted and cooked every day of their lives on top of nanny duty, and now all of a sudden child-rearing in and of itself is the hardest job in the world and takes everything a person has. While maintaining a fortune as a young, disgraced aristocrat in a city caving in on itself is obviously child's play and you'd have to be a useless idiot to mess that up - and would deserve to be treated as such. Mhm.

Aside from inventing things I didn't say, Gamlen was in many ways a useless idiot, and unlike Leandra, we actually have proof of Gamlen's actions.

 

 

Then what are we even arguing about? If the only letter Gamlen could send on the subject was "Okay, mommy and daddy suddenly changed their minds and left everything to you, but since you obviously can't show your face here and I quite frankly feel royally screwed over, I hope you don't mind that I take what's rightfully mine and do what I can with it." then what did anyone have to gain by it being sent? It's a dick move, sure, not telling her about their parents' forgiveness, but it's not like he's stealing anything that actually belongs to her or which she would expect to ever have the use of.

 

It's not "punishing" her, she doesn't lose anything and in fact lives on blissfully unaware until disaster strikes three decades later and she makes the decision to return which is stupid for all sorts of other reasons. Just because the Hawkes get their hopes up and are disappointed doesn't mean he did something terrible or personal to hurt them.

Well, firstly, it isn't "rightfully" his, so the sense of entitlement can hopefully be omitted. Secondly, well, he is in fact stealing things that belong to her.


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#120
Illegitimus

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Leandra is definitely "actual aristocracy" through and through, and we know that she neither cleaned nor made any attempt to provide for herself during her entire first year back in Kirkwall with her children, while having nothing better to do

 

 

I know no such thing.  Hawke's only sanitary complaints when wandering around the hovel were in Gamlen's room.  



#121
vbibbi

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Gamlen is one of the characters affected by Bioware oversimplification. We're not meant to see him as sympathetic because he's the one who sold us into indentured servitude for a year. He raises legitimate issues about Leandra and family but the audience is allowed to easily dismiss them because he's rude, gross, and a gambler.

 

A lot of antagonistic characters in Bio games can have valid points but as soon as those points are raised, they then do something dastardly which exonerates the PC and the player from worrying that they might be doing anything wrong.

 


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#122
ThomasBlaine

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I've done the same thing when I've been in the throes of depression, and I'm not even an aristocrat. It doesn't necessarily define one's entire character.

 

Can you imagine seeing your children walk out the door every morning not knowing if they'll return alive or free, risking themselves for your survival and their own, and allowing them to return to a filthy house in the evening beaten and exhausted and potentially wounded because you couldn't be bothered to clean up?

 

The way I see it, the entire point of Leandra's existence as a mother during that year was to make every effort that her children had a safe and comfortable place to come home to after dangerous missions. She didn't lift a finger in that endeavor, and instead wailed and complained and pushed them to throw themselves into even more danger. That, vocally blaming her children for their siblings' deaths, and protesting the idea of two of them going into the Deep Roads at the same time is the extent of her parental virtues as we see them during the game.

 

Ignoring the whole "let's drag my mage child to the least mage-friendly city on the continent and stay there even after it turns out our prospects are minimal compared to what we hoped for".

 

Aside from inventing things I didn't say, Gamlen was in many ways a useless idiot, and unlike Leandra, we actually have proof of Gamlen's actions.

 

You're right, I didn't mean to imply that that's exactly what you said about parenting, I just find the whole 'being a mother = incredibly hard job the exempts you from all other responsibilities' notion rather offensive.

 

And gaining you access into the city under much better circumstances than the average refugee and allowing you and your family to stay at his spacious home at his own expense for a year is not useless, as anyone who has ever been homeless or otherwise forced to start over from rock bottom will attest to, including myself. That's something you can't really expect even from your closest family today. Imagine all the Syrians who'd have loved to have a Gamlen Amell in Europe right now.

 

The only reason he appears "useless" is that you're lead to believe that he'll have a mansion, riches and a title ready for you free of charge when you arrive before finding out that he's merely offering a quick way into the city and free housing for the indefinite future until you get on your feet. So he's a flawed man in private and took the inheritance your mother left behind thirty years ago. Whoopty doo.

 

Well, firstly, it isn't "rightfully" his, so the sense of entitlement can hopefully be omitted. Secondly, well, he is in fact stealing things that belong to her.

 

"Rightfully" was supposed to be from his perspective, not mine. And yes, he stole things that legally belonged to her but which she couldn't realistically claim and was never likely to be able to. It was a victimless crime and would have remained so if not for the Blight and Leandra's own suicidally foolish notions thirty years later. Having been marginalized and humiliated by my own parents and put under an absent older sister's financial authority with what should have been my birthright just sitting there indefinitely, I'm pretty sure I'd have done the same thing and not ended up much better off than he is in the game.

 

I know no such thing.  Hawke's only sanitary complaints when wandering around the hovel were in Gamlen's room.  

 

You're going to have to come up with a quote for that, I don't remember those comments being particlurar to Gamlen's room at all. Or even that Gamlen has a room of his own. The conspiciously unused bar of soap lying around in the living room suggests that no cleaning is going on anywhere.

 

Gamlen is one of the characters affected by Bioware oversimplification. We're not meant to see him as sympathetic because he's the one who sold us into indentured servitude for a year. He raises legitimate issues about Leandra and family but the audience is allowed to easily dismiss them because he's rude, gross, and a gambler.

 

A lot of antagonistic characters in Bio games can have valid points but as soon as those points are raised, they then do something dastardly which exonerates the PC and the player from worrying that they might be doing anything wrong.

 

A sizable chunk of all conflicts everywhere can most likely be attributed to that insane fear of seeing the people you argue with as anything other than an evil to be vanquished or something contemptible you can feel superior over. It's especially unfortunate that we now have the perfect tools for reversing that kind of thinking with compelling and complex storytelling accessible to everyone, but use them to produce empowerment fantasies and encourage extreme idealization instead.

 

I'd say that the problem is much bigger than Bioware, and that Bioware is still further along than a lot of franchises in a lot of genres in this regard.



#123
SmilesJA

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Gamlen is one of the characters affected by Bioware oversimplification. We're not meant to see him as sympathetic because he's the one who sold us into indentured servitude for a year. He raises legitimate issues about Leandra and family but the audience is allowed to easily dismiss them because he's rude, gross, and a gambler.

 

A lot of antagonistic characters in Bio games can have valid points but as soon as those points are raised, they then do something dastardly which exonerates the PC and the player from worrying that they might be doing anything wrong.

 

I felt he was sympathetic, considering what he was going through since Leandra went through. It does not what excuse what he did like wasting away the inheritance out of spite. He did get a good ending with Charade at least.



#124
Xilizhra

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Can you imagine seeing your children walk out the door every morning not knowing if they'll return alive or free, risking themselves for your survival and their own, and allowing them to return to a filthy house in the evening beaten and exhausted and potentially wounded because you couldn't be bothered to clean up?

 

The way I see it, the entire point of Leandra's existence as a mother during that year was to make every effort that her children had a safe and comfortable place to come home to after dangerous missions. She didn't lift a finger in that endeavor, and instead wailed and complained and pushed them to throw themselves into even more danger. That, vocally blaming her children for their siblings' deaths, and protesting the idea of two of them going into the Deep Roads at the same time is the extent of her parental virtues as we see them during the game.

 

Ignoring the whole "let's drag my mage child to the least mage-friendly city on the continent and stay there even after it turns out our prospects are minimal compared to what we hoped for".

I think you're reading way too deeply into one idle line from Hawke about one item in one circumstance (if the brush implies that the house is never cleaned, then every apologetic letter that Hawke gets from Isabela about spiders is a new one and Hawke has the same line every time).

 

 

You're right, I didn't mean to imply that that's exactly what you said about parenting, I just find the whole 'being a mother = incredibly hard job the exempts you from all other responsibilities' notion rather offensive.

I think it has one of the higher difficulty-to-appreciation ratios.

 

 

And gaining you access into the city under much better circumstances than the average refugee and allowing you and your family to stay at his spacious home at his own expense for a year is not useless, as anyone who has ever been homeless or otherwise forced to start over from rock bottom will attest to, including myself. That's something you can't really expect even from your closest family today. Imagine all the Syrians who'd have loved to have a Gamlen Amell in Europe right now.

 

The only reason he appears "useless" is that you're lead to believe that he'll have a mansion, riches and a title ready for you free of charge when you arrive before finding out that he's merely offering a quick way into the city and free housing for the indefinite future until you get on your feet. So he's a flawed man in private and took the inheritance your mother left behind thirty years ago. Whoopty doo.

No, the uselessness is in losing the whole estate.

 

 

"Rightfully" was supposed to be from his perspective, not mine. And yes, he stole things that legally belonged to her but which she couldn't realistically claim and was never likely to be able to. It was a victimless crime and would have remained so if not for the Blight and Leandra's own suicidally foolish notions thirty years later. Having been marginalized and humiliated by my own parents and put under an absent older sister's financial authority with what should have been my birthright just sitting there indefinitely, I'm pretty sure I'd have done the same thing and not ended up much better off than he is in the game.

How is moving away from the Blight suicidally foolish? None of the other coastal cities would be easier to get into, and moving overland would require an entirely different trek. And Leandra never even vetoes trying, Hawke's sibling does; blame them. And why should it have been your birthright to begin with?



#125
vbibbi

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Can you imagine seeing your children walk out the door every morning not knowing if they'll return alive or free, risking themselves for your survival and their own, and allowing them to return to a filthy house in the evening beaten and exhausted and potentially wounded because you couldn't be bothered to clean up?
 
The way I see it, the entire point of Leandra's existence as a mother during that year was to make every effort that her children had a safe and comfortable place to come home to after dangerous missions. She didn't lift a finger in that endeavor, and instead wailed and complained and pushed them to throw themselves into even more danger. That, vocally blaming her children for their siblings' deaths, and protesting the idea of two of them going into the Deep Roads at the same time is the extent of her parental virtues as we see them during the game.
 
Ignoring the whole "let's drag my mage child to the least mage-friendly city on the continent and stay there even after it turns out our prospects are minimal compared to what we hoped for".
 

 
You're right, I didn't mean to imply that that's exactly what you said about parenting, I just find the whole 'being a mother = incredibly hard job the exempts you from all other responsibilities' notion rather offensive.
 
And gaining you access into the city under much better circumstances than the average refugee and allowing you and your family to stay at his spacious home at his own expense for a year is not useless, as anyone who has ever been homeless or otherwise forced to start over from rock bottom will attest to, including myself. That's something you can't really expect even from your closest family today. Imagine all the Syrians who'd have loved to have a Gamlen Amell in Europe right now.
 
The only reason he appears "useless" is that you're lead to believe that he'll have a mansion, riches and a title ready for you free of charge when you arrive before finding out that he's merely offering a quick way into the city and free housing for the indefinite future until you get on your feet. So he's a flawed man in private and took the inheritance your mother left behind thirty years ago. Whoopty doo.
 

 
"Rightfully" was supposed to be from his perspective, not mine. And yes, he stole things that legally belonged to her but which she couldn't realistically claim and was never likely to be able to. It was a victimless crime and would have remained so if not for the Blight and Leandra's own suicidally foolish notions thirty years later. Having been marginalized and humiliated by my own parents and put under an absent older sister's financial authority with what should have been my birthright just sitting there indefinitely, I'm pretty sure I'd have done the same thing and not ended up much better off than he is in the game.
 

 
You're going to have to come up with a quote for that, I don't remember those comments being particlurar to Gamlen's room at all. Or even that Gamlen has a room of his own. The conspiciously unused bar of soap lying around in the living room suggests that no cleaning is going on anywhere.
 

 
A sizable chunk of all conflicts everywhere can most likely be attributed to that insane fear of seeing the people you argue with as anything other than an evil to be vanquished or something contemptible you can feel superior over. It's especially unfortunate that we now have the perfect tools for reversing that kind of thinking with compelling and complex storytelling accessible to everyone, but use them to produce empowerment fantasies and encourage extreme idealization instead.
 
I'd say that the problem is much bigger than Bioware, and that Bioware is still further along than a lot of franchises in a lot of genres in this regard.

  

I felt he was sympathetic, considering what he was going through since Leandra went through. It does not what excuse what he did like wasting away the inheritance out of spite. He did get a good ending with Charade at least.




I personally found sympathetic qualities to him but felt his flaws were intended to overshadow those qualities. Perhaps enough to plant doubt in the player's mind.

I guess it highlights the fact that DA2 is about a pre made character rather than more of the DAO/DAI blank slate so Hawke has his/her own opinions of their uncle regardless of the player's view. I didn't mind this for most of the game, perhaps because I generally agreed with Hawke's opinions or felt their opinions made sense in context. But I disagreed with their totally unfavorable and ungrateful attitude towards Gamlen.