Skocz do zawartości

Zdjęcie

Gamlen's "Hovel" in Low-Town


  • Zaloguj się, aby dodać odpowiedź
130 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

#126
Sifr

Sifr
  • Members
  • 6715 postów

What do you mean, "regularly spouts mages"? The Amell Warden couldn't possibly have been taken to the circle until way after Leandra left Kirkwall or they'd be in their thirties in DAO with Jowan somehow being even older, and it isn't until even later that the other Amell cousins are discovered to be mages. And the whole thing eventually costs Aristide the Viscountcy.  There's no way he wouldn't have been terrified of being associated with mages and raised his children accordingly.

 

Leandra tells us that the Amells have had magical offspring for generations. Her example of her cousin Revka having her children all go into the Circle (including the Mage Warden) are just the most recent example, besides herself, in the current generation.

 

Leandra's lack of conscientiousness and foresight is relevant to how much it's fair to blame Gamlen for his actions. Nobody is saying that he's right and that she's crazy, just that he isn't nearly as wrong as people give him credit for and that she doesn't deserve to be viewed as any more deserving of the money than he was. That you can't wrap you head around this distinction and have to just make **** up to pretend to understand people's arguments is tragic, but please stop it. You're just wasting space and confusing yourself.

 

A tad hypocritical, wouldn't you say, given how often you've insisted that Malcolm was a "criminal", despite all evidence to the contrary?

 

Precisely what crimes did Malcolm commit during the 25 years that he was living as an apostate? And how does that back up with how we're told he was freed by a Templar precisely because he was posed no danger to anyone ("Order is not served caging the best of us") and that Malcolm's motto was "Magic will serve what is best in me, not which is most base" showing he didn't abuse magic?

 

 

The way I see it, the entire point of Leandra's existence as a mother during that year was to make every effort that her children had a safe and comfortable place to come home to after dangerous missions. She didn't lift a finger in that endeavor, and instead wailed and complained and pushed them to throw themselves into even more danger. That, vocally blaming her children for their siblings' deaths, and protesting the idea of two of them going into the Deep Roads at the same time is the extent of her parental virtues as we see them during the game.

 

We're told countless times in DA2 that practically no-one in Kirkwall wants to hire refugees and we even see that Darktown is full of homeless and unemployed Fereldans, scraping to simply find enough food to not starve to death. The "lucky" ones who can find work are the usually hired for the absolute worst jobs, such working in the Bone Pit, a veritable death trap that earns them only a pittance to try to live by.

 

Hawke only manages to get work through the decent reputation they gained working for Meeran/Athenril, as well as Varric hooking them up with his contacts. Even then, it's not like Hawke or Bethany/Carver have a form of stable employment available to them, but have to go out and actively find mercenary work.

 

Aveline seems to have been the only one to buck this trend by getting a job in the Kirkwall City Guard. But I suspect though that she got it because the job is considered extremely high-risk and Jevan's poor leadership caused a bit of a high turnover rate, so they often find they need to refill the ranks. Her having actual experience serving in the Fereldan army probably helped her application though.

 

But yeah, as far as Leandra is concerned, someone who's primary experience for the past two decades has been homemaker and farmer's wife, she has next to no chance of getting employment in Kirkwall post-Blight.


  • Dutchess i SmilesJA lubią to

#127
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 postów

I think you're reading way too deeply into one idle line from Hawke about one item in one circumstance (if the brush implies that the house is never cleaned, then every apologetic letter that Hawke gets from Isabela about spiders is a new one and Hawke has the same line every time).

 

I don't understand what you mean here.

 

I think it has one of the higher difficulty-to-appreciation ratios.

 

Yes. The most idealized and legally and physically protected people on the planet, excepting children themselves, are indeed underappreciated. There totally aren't thousands of much more punishing and dangerous occupations even more crucial to modern society claiming and ruining lives all over the world that go completely unremarked and unsupported in comparison.

 

No, the uselessness is in losing the whole estate.

 

If not being able to get yourself to clean the house your children sleep in doesn't define you as useless then not being able to singlehandedly hold onto a fortune and a lavish estate over a span of thirty years in a city full of turmoil certainly doesn't either.

 

How is moving away from the Blight suicidally foolish? None of the other coastal cities would be easier to get into, and moving overland would require an entirely different trek. And Leandra never even vetoes trying, Hawke's sibling does; blame them. And why should it have been your birthright to begin with?

 

Moving towards Kirkwall is. Hawke can point out the stupidity of that plan even keeping the status they believe would be waiting for them in mind, but Leandra is the one who forges on ahead, drags them there and gets them rather predictably stuck in Kirkwall's docks, exhausted and penniless from traveling.

 

It should have been Gamlen's birthright because there was nowhere else it could reasonably have gone. If he hadn't touched it and the greatest disaster in four hundred years hadn't suddenly started spreading from within a day or two of Leandra's home, whatever stakes the Amells owned would have simply disappeared to whatever economic limbo unclaimed inheritances go to, robbing Gamlen of his best chance at making something of himself after Leandra had so casually thrown her own away. I really can't imagine what their parents were thinking when they wrote that will.

 

Leandra tells us that the Amells have......

 

Quote?

 

An apostate is a criminal by definition. The whole 'fleeing the law' is the big give-away. Good criminal or bad criminal doesn't change his basic social status.

 

I'm not suggesting that Leandra find a job, just that she get off her lazy, entitled ass and scrub the floor she lives on like a normal human being.



#128
Xilizhra

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30873 postów

I don't understand what you mean here.

There's no reason to assume that no one ever cleans anything based on one line.

 

 

If not being able to get yourself to clean the house your children sleep in doesn't define you as useless then not being able to singlehandedly hold onto a fortune and a lavish estate over a span of thirty years in a city full of turmoil certainly doesn't either.

I'll adjust my estimate based on any mental illnesses Gamlen may have been afflicted with, though why would fighting over the viscount's seat impact Gamlen financially?

 

 

Moving towards Kirkwall is. Hawke can point out the stupidity of that plan even keeping the status they believe would be waiting for them in mind, but Leandra is the one who forges on ahead, drags them there and gets them rather predictably stuck in Kirkwall's docks, exhausted and penniless from traveling.

 

It should have been Gamlen's birthright because there was nowhere else it could reasonably have gone. If he hadn't touched it and the greatest disaster in four hundred years hadn't suddenly started spreading from within a day or two of Leandra's home, whatever stakes the Amells owned would have simply disappeared to whatever economic limbo unclaimed inheritances go to, robbing Gamlen of his best chance at making something of himself after Leandra had so casually thrown her own away. I really can't imagine what their parents were thinking when they wrote that will.

They'd have been penniless with nowhere to go at all in any other coastal city; the family link in Kirkwall is the only reason this worked at all. Gamlen says that the other cities are already overflowing with refugees too. As for birthrights... again, I'd be fine if he sorted out the details with Leandra via letter. He didn't. He chose to be a thief instead.


  • SmilesJA lubi to

#129
ThomasBlaine

ThomasBlaine
  • Members
  • 915 postów

There's no reason to assume that no one ever cleans anything based on one line.

It's several lines, and yes, that's exactly what they imply and it's used dramatically as part of Hawke's motivation to move up in the world.

 

I'll adjust my estimate based on any mental illnesses Gamlen may have been afflicted with, though why would fighting over the viscount's seat impact Gamlen financially?

 

Yes, because people only ever go bankrupt because of mental illness and basic uselessness, and violent political coups, boiling religious conflicts and overall unstable economies never impact business. Got it. I see I should have gone into finances myself. It's so simple and certain that anyone could earn a profit!

 

They'd have been penniless with nowhere to go at all in any other coastal city; the family link in Kirkwall is the only reason this worked at all. Gamlen says that the other cities are already overflowing with refugees too. As for birthrights... again, I'd be fine if he sorted out the details with Leandra via letter. He didn't. He chose to be a thief instead.

 

Well, Kirkwall also happen to be chock-full of overzealous templars and consequently insane apostates. And one of the children she drags there is a mage. Nope, no foreseeable problems there and certainly no way they could earn a living elsewhere. And Leandra was gone, far away and busy with her own life. What would have been the point? Jeopardizing a fortune by trying to get an all-clear on general principle from the sister who begged out years ago? Please.



#130
workforme

workforme
  • Members
  • 26 postów

There's no reason to assume that no one ever cleans anything based on one line.

 

 

I'll adjust my estimate based on any mental illnesses Gamlen may have been afflicted with, though why would fighting over the viscount's seat impact Gamlen financially?

 

 

They'd have been penniless with nowhere to go at all in any other coastal city; the family link in Kirkwall is the only reason this worked at all. Gamlen says that the other cities are already overflowing with refugees too. As for birthrights... again, I'd be fine if he sorted out the details with Leandra via letter. He didn't. He chose to be a thief instead.

 

I really think you paying too much attention to Thomas.


  • ThomasBlaine lubi to

#131
Sifr

Sifr
  • Members
  • 6715 postów

 

Quote?

 

Leandra mentions this during Birthright, including how they are related to the Amell Warden if you imported that worldstate.

 

"The Amells have been a noble family in Kirkwall since Garahel drove out the Fourth Blight. But we've always carried magic in our blood. (The Hero of Ferelden was one of ours, you know. One of my cousin Revka's children. The Circle took them all.) It's been a stain on our lineage. No family of good standing would ever marry into a line with magic. When I chose your father, I was bringing more magic into the line, not less. I think that's what hurt my parents the most".

 

As we can see, those born with magic have appeared in the Amell line for generations, despite all their attempts to curb this trait from manifesting by avoiding marrying into other families that might lead them to produce more mage offspring.

 

An apostate is a criminal by definition. The whole 'fleeing the law' is the big give-away. Good criminal or bad criminal doesn't change his basic social status.

 

By definition, being taken from your home as a child, locked up and denied freedom is considered kidnapping.

 

The Circles are basically prisons for people who have committed no crime save an accident of birth, where the inmates are subject to torture or execution from the guards (along with other indignities) should they have broken any of the rules imposed on them.

 

Is Malcolm a "criminal" for wanting to escape a place like the Gallows, where rape, tranquility, suicides or execution were all too common occurrences, even before someone as draconian as Meredith took over as Knight-Commander?

 

I'm not suggesting that Leandra find a job, just that she get off her lazy, entitled ass and scrub the floor she lives on like a normal human being.

 

How about Gamlen do something?

 

Why should Leandra be considered lazy, because she refuses to let her brother make her play maid and have her children pay his rent and cover his debts? All while he spends the majority of his time and what little money he do have, getting drunk and his end away at the local brothel?

 

No wonder Gamlen tells Hawke not to mention being caught in the Blooming Rose to Leandra. In addition to the disreputable nature of the establishment that she'd not approve of, it'd be far harder for him to pretend to be skint when he's clearly got enough to squander there.


  • SmilesJA, Catilina i Almila_Lavellan lubią to