83 réponses à ce sujet

[MsCafeNoir]

I think the developers left a little clue in the game to expose that Solas is actually evil. Rather than the Dread Wolf he tries to convince you of... I think he is closer to the Dread Wolf from lore, you know the one who hides away, alone... hugging and giggling with laughter because he takes delight in trickery... he is insane, evil, and it even speculates he hates elves. The big clue... if you walk him through the Exalted Plains, after you completed Ghilan'Nain's Grove, you set up camp and pass through an elven graveyard... I know this because it is the same kind of Graves you find in the Emerald Graves, identical, with elven inscriptions, epitaph ... Solas will say "I like it here... it is quiet..." with this almost evil glee... it gave me chills... and I don't think the developers put it there by accident. The voice actor sounded sinister... with an undertone of delight... a smile. I thought Solas was this God like rebel... but after encountering that moment in the game... and after digging deeper into the lore, the inspiration for his character... he might be completely evil. I also suspect that is why they had to leave his romantic connection hanging... they wanted to stay true to his love of deception, his delight in misleading, drawing in... weakening others. Solas = Soul less... without a soul...

[Donk]

Um. I take it you haven't played Trespasser?

[lynroy]

Welcome to BSN. I didn't hear any 'evil glee' in his voice there--it seemed more soft, content.

[Abyss108]

So basically you think his entire characterisation for a full 150 hour game is false, and everything his writer has said about him is a direct lie because of the way the voice actor said he liked the quiet? 

[Al Foley]

Which could have been a reference to anywhere in the Dales and not a graveyard in particular. 

[MsCafeNoir]

There are other clues... pay close attention... there are very subtle sinister undertones. Like when he doesn't want you to drink from the well of souls... I think it is because he killed Mythal and does not want an elven claiming her memories, the truth, the power. When Mythal came to Flemmeth... it is because they shared a deep sense of betrayal... a need for vengeance... Flemmeth explains it in game. When he tells you at the end of Trespasser he did what he did because they killed Mythal... pay close attention, he seems to laugh a little, smile... duping delight.... bet the character developer researched that! He killed Mythal... he believes he is not really lying to you because what They did turned Mythal away from him... so even though he killed her... They really did it in his eyes... that is why Cole says "he killed her, he doesn't remember..." Cole is compassionate, innocent, so he reads it that way... and they also show you how Solas can "mess with Cole..." that is if Cole isn't his minion to begin with... which I suspect. Also read up on the lore... it is freaky... a lot like Solas... only he loves journeying into the fade to torture... deceive... and devour spirits. I suspect the Elven God's caught onto his deception... his tormenting of others... and we're going to use The Veil to separate him from the fade... he became enraged... killed Mythal... who was one of his former "friends" if he can truly have any... pay attention in the game... they imply he can not make friends... then he stole the very thing that they were going to seal him away with and sealed the Elven God's away instead. When he woke up he even expressed that he was "bored" unhappy with the lack of equals... everyone else seems like tranquil to him... he wants to unleash the Gods... but he has a reason... a plan... hm...

[lynroy]

There are other clues... pay close attention... there are very subtle sinister undertones. Like when he doesn't want you to drink from the well of souls... I think it is because he killed Mythal and does not want an elven claiming her memories, the truth, the power. 

Wait, I'm stopping you right there. We know Solas did not kill Mythal, Abelas tells us this.

[Abyss108]

Uh... riiiiiiiiiiight....  ​ 

[MsCafeNoir]

Yes I played Trespasser... this is like my third playthrough. The developers could be tricking you a little... it does suite his character... his lore... a little wink to each other. They did hint he will be in the next game... and one of them made a wink wink reply that the poster was being Soul Less... they are playing around with the psychology of it all, that I am sure they found in their research of the lore, the character, the development... they try to show you in little ways if you pay close attention...

[MsCafeNoir]

Yes but Abelas could be loyal to Dread Wolf (or deceived him, which Dread Wolf is literally known for...) ... not Mythal... and guards her memories, the truth, from other powerful elves who might find them. There is something sinister about their interaction as well... play close attention... you will see it. Read the lore as well, it will open your eyes a bit. They are also playing around with religion... and are possibly introducing "the great deceiver" character... which is like the Devil... Satan... you know the king of all demons... they have mixed up a lot of lore for inspiration... who wants to destroy the world and recreate it... you can pluck out clue after clue of writer and character development inspiration. They wanted him to seem like a good guy, that is the point... he disguises himself... a wolf in sheep's clothing... hence he is a wolf...

[lynroy]

Nah, I think I need to drink a little more and then I might be able to see all of this through your eyes.

[MsCafeNoir]

Um. I take it you haven't played Trespasser?

Yes I have... numerous times... please read my other posts for additional information.

[MsCafeNoir]

Wait, I'm stopping you right there. We know Solas did not kill Mythal, Abelas tells us this.

Why do you believe Abelas? Even if you do... they talk about taking away memories the entire game... look at the whole character development of Cole... he heals... wipes memories... they can't even remember him existing... doing it... hence the invisible boy... pay close attention to his interactions with Solas... where Solas makes Cole forget...

[Abyss108]

OK, ignoring how insane this idea is in the first place, and how it relies on you not liking the delivery of a few lines which no-one else has had issue with -

 

It's a worse story. You are saying instead of a three dimensional, nuanced character, who has good points, but also massive flaws, and who makes mistakes but has understandable motivation for why he does what he does, he should just be "evil" and "insane". That's just terrible writing, and considering the entire Dragon Age series has always shown it's antagonists to be characters first, not just evil caricatures for you to cut down, I don't think they are going to not only going to start doing that now, but spend an entire game setting up a plot twist that they couldn't be bothered to write villains with actual motivation anymore. 

 

There's also the fact that this would invalidate the previous plot twist that the Dread Wolf wasn't what we expected. You can't spend an entire game building up to a massive twist ending like that, just to go "Nah, not really, just kidding" in the next game.

[MsCafeNoir]

OK, ignoring how insane this idea is in the first place, and how it relies on you not liking the delivery of a few lines which no-one else has had issue with -

It's a worse story. You are saying instead of a three dimensional, nuanced character, who has good points, but also massive flaws, and who makes mistakes but has understandable motivation for why he does what he does, he should just be "evil" and "insane". That's just terrible writing, and considering the entire Dragon Age series has always shown it's antagonists to be characters first, not just evil caricatures for you to cut down, I don't think they are going to not only going to start doing that now, but spend an entire game setting up a plot twist that they couldn't be bothered to write villains with actual motivation anymore.

There's also the fact that this would invalidate the previous plot twist that the Dread Wolf wasn't what we expected. You can't spend an entire game building up to a massive twist ending like that, just to go "Nah, not really, just kidding" in the next game.

OK, ignoring how insane this idea is in the first place, and how it relies on you not liking the delivery of a few lines which no-one else has had issue with -

It's a worse story. You are saying instead of a three dimensional, nuanced character, who has good points, but also massive flaws, and who makes mistakes but has understandable motivation for why he does what he does, he should just be "evil" and "insane". That's just terrible writing, and considering the entire Dragon Age series has always shown it's antagonists to be characters first, not just evil caricatures for you to cut down, I don't think they are going to not only going to start doing that now, but spend an entire game setting up a plot twist that they couldn't be bothered to write villains with actual motivation anymore.

There's also the fact that this would invalidate the previous plot twist that the Dread Wolf wasn't what we expected. You can't spend an entire game building up to a massive twist ending like that, just to go "Nah, not really, just kidding" in the next game.

No it is inspired writing based on lore... with other inspirations... other religions, hence the Elven influence... the Chantry aka the church, religion etc. It isn't bad writing if you find out in the next game that I am right and you totally fell for it... they are toying with your romantic sentiments... just like Dread Wolf would... it is brilliant if they are truly embracing the idea... the character as a whole... even using him to trick... deceive players... fans...

[Abyss108]

No it is inspired writing based on lore... with other inspirations... other religions, hence the Elven influence... the Chantry aka the church, religion etc. It isn't bad writing if you find out in the next game that I am right and you totally fell for it... they are toying with your romantic sentiments... just like Dread Wolf would...

 

Yes, writing a villain who's only motivation is "evil" and "insane" is bad writing. That's the first lesson anyone learns about writing characters.    Writing isn't about "tricking" the viewer into thinking a story has more nuance than it does, and then laughing at them when you reveal the only explanation is for the plot is "insanity".

[MsCafeNoir]

So basically you think his entire characterisation for a full 150 hour game is false, and everything his writer has said about him is a direct lie because of the way the voice actor said he liked the quiet? 

No there is a lot more reasons... please read my other posts...

[MsCafeNoir]

Yes, writing a villain who's only motivation is "evil" and "insane" is bad writing. That's the first lesson anyone learns about writing characters.    Writing isn't about "tricking" the viewer into thinking a story has more nuance than it does, and then laughing at them when you reveal the only explanation is for the plot is "insanity".

Not if he is based on actual lore, inspired by actual writings... and they aren't ending it with oh he is evil... he is insane... they left it with you not knowing... not sure... or seeing him in a way that is deceptive... tricking you... which honors his character and overall inspiration... it is brilliant writing...

[MsCafeNoir]

There was this weird leak for dragon age 4... the cover of the book had a wolfs head and one of the people who new the guy posted... your such a tease... your soul less... laughing... there seems to be a lot of inside jokes between the developers... as if they are happy they tricked us... it worked... and there is more to come...

[MsCafeNoir]

The fact that my theory bothers so many... they profess it is not possible... when it completely is... shows that the emotional, psychological trickery, deception... worked... staying true to the character. It is not bad... lazy writing... if it tricked you... continues to trick you... makes you wonder... react... invest yourself... and then when the truth is revealed you can feel an real appreciation for it... the genius behind it... and how it really captured you, made you feel something. That is what writing is truly about... pulling you in... capturing your attention... playing on your sentiments... your weaknesses... tearing you apart... yet you love, respect, and appreciate them for it...

[MsCafeNoir]

If it is true... I want to express my absolute love and respect for the writer... amazing... keep developing characters like this... don't compromise...

[Mr_Q]

Yes but Abelas could be loyal to Dread Wolf (or deceived him, which Dread Wolf is literally known for...) ... not Mythal... and guards her memories, the truth, from other powerful elves who might find them. There is something sinister about their interaction as well... play close attention... you will see it. Read the lore as well, it will open your eyes a bit. They are also playing around with religion... and are possibly introducing "the great deceiver" character... which is like the Devil... Satan... you know the king of all demons... they have mixed up a lot of lore for inspiration... who wants to destroy the world and recreate it... you can pluck out clue after clue of writer and character development inspiration. They wanted him to seem like a good guy, that is the point... he disguises himself... a wolf in sheep's clothing... hence he is a wolf...

 

Your theory is interesting, I'll probably start another playthrough to double check as I've never fully trusted Solas to be honest.

 

Though, why would Solas approve of Morrigan using the Well of Sorrows as opposed to the Inquisitor? Surely she would be aware of Solas's supposed treachery in equal measure to the Inquisitor by using the Wells? 

[nightscrawl]

Like when he doesn't want you to drink from the well of souls... I think it is because he killed Mythal and does not want an elven claiming her memories, the truth, the power.

He says the same thing to all Inquisitors, regardless of their origin; he doesn't want ANY Inquisitor to drink, it has nothing to do with race.

 

Your theory is interesting, I'll probably start another playthrough to double check as I've never fully trusted Solas to be honest.
 
Though, why would Solas approve of Morrigan using the Well of Sorrows as opposed to the Inquisitor? Surely she would be aware of Solas's supposed treachery in equal measure to the Inquisitor by using the Wells?

 
He doesn't approve. Perhaps I'm not understanding your wording here. He doesn't trust Morrigan, but neither does he want the Inquisitor to drink. It's actually rather annoying because he's pissed either way and offers no explanation for it.
 
Patrick Weekes acknowledged that there were lines that he accidentally left out that would have made that scene play a bit better.
 
@PatrickWeekes
@princebec Yeah. My goof. Nothing more of substance, though. No key plot detail was missing, just flavor.

[Mr_Q]

 

He doesn't approve. Perhaps I'm not understanding your wording here. He doesn't trust Morrigan, but neither does he want the Inquisitor to drink. It's actually rather annoying because he's pissed either way and offers no explanation for it.
 
Patrick Weekes acknowledged that there were lines that he accidentally left out that would have made that scene play a bit better.
 
@PatrickWeekes
@princebec Yeah. My goof. Nothing more of substance, though. No key plot detail was missing, just flavor.

 

 

My apologies for my miscommunication. I was referring to this scene in the link above. Here, if the Inquisitor allows Morrigan to use the Well of Sorrows, Solas approves. Whereas if the Inquisitor uses the Well of Sorrows, he disapproves. - @4.44 in the link roughly. 

[nightscrawl]

^ So you're referring only to approval points, then? In that video, at around 4:10 is Solas telling Morrigan to her face that she is a glutton drooling at the sight of a feast [power] and cannot be trusted.

 

I think the approval points in that case are not because he approves of Morrigan drinking, but that he is approving of the Inquisitor NOT drinking.

 

Keep in mind that the player in that video doesn't take most of the investigate options, so you do miss out on some Solas dialogue. He doesn't want either of them to drink, yet admits that it cannot go to waste. Because PW left out dialogue, we can't truly understand the reasoning behind his reaction.