83 réponses à ce sujet

[MsCafeNoir]

I believe the fade is fighting back against Solas... hence your character... pulled from the fade to take his mark... his power... there is lore that says that when he travels into the fade he torments the spirits who dwell there... he is addicted to the fade because it is the last remnants of a true challenge to a trickster like him... the world has become dull to him... he says it is as if all in the world are tranquil... not at his level... he prefers the company of spirits... the fade... the old ways... the old challenge... the blight represents old demons... old spirits flowing out of the weakened veil in anger... confusion... the old God's trying to take back a world that once made sense to them... belonged to them... their home... Solas as the great deceiver who caused the fall is similar to a Luciferian philosophy... they were obviously inspired by a lot of lore... religions etc.

[MsCafeNoir]

You mean Dalish legends, not lore.

It was revealed in Trespasser that the Evanuris had a propaganda war going on because they were trying to prevent slaves from trusting Solas to help free them. That's where the "trickster" legends sprang from, that and from those elves that survived the Veil who were pissed at Solas for screwing up their civilization and messing with their status over the slaves.



So water, your argument holds none. At least according to information from the games. You're entitled to head canon, of course.

Yes but if you look into the lore that inspired the writers in the first place there is more than just a few codex entries. Consider what inspired the character in the first place... why Dread wolf... why the wolf... why the lone wolf imagery... consider the wolf in sheep's clothing... consider other lore that may have inspired his overall development and watch the subtle clues... his strange smile... like duping delight... watch the end again... watch where he explains to you that what led to this was Mythals death... his expressions show mild delight... a smile... even a little laugh... not sadness... i don't think they spent all that time and effort on the final scene to mess it up... I think it quietly conveyed what they wanted it to... what they intended... don't believe me... don't listen to me... play the game again... pay very close attention to little details... when he absorbed flemmeth... I believe his sadness... his weakness was a ploy... a deception to draw her in... he new he had an advantage... she was human... not as in touch with the fade... the spiritual world... humans are implied to be more of the earth... the dwarves... the abyss.. or inside the earth... the core... the quanari... dragons... the beasts... every race is symbolic... precious... they represent the whole... if the old God's are dragon... and the quanari are a mix... bred of the old gods... that could explain the Quin... the need for structure... Solas represents a spirit who does not want to be bound by any moral code... he himself represents the very essence of something that many would consider immoral... deception... trickery... rebelion... but he is useful... essential... remember what Mother Giselle tells you... faith must be tested in order to be faith... truth... in order to have complete understanding of who you are and what you believe in... what you are willing to live... die for... the truth of each one of us...

[Almostfaceman]

Yes but if you look into the lore that inspired the writers in the first place there is more than just a few codex entries. Consider what inspired the character in the first place... why Dread wolf... why the wolf... why the lone wolf imagery... consider the wolf in sheep's clothing... consider other lore that may have inspired his overall development and watch the subtle clues... his strange smile... like duping delight... watch the end again... watch where he explains to you that what led to this was Mythals death... his expressions show mild delight... a smile... even a little laugh... not sadness... in don't think they spent all that time and effort on the final scene to mess it up... I think it quietly conveyed what they wanted it to... what they intended... don't believe me... don't listen to me... play the game again... pay very close attention to little details... when he absorbed flemmeth... I believe his sadness... his weakness was a ploy... a deception to draw her in... he new he had an advantage... she was human... not as in touch with the fade... the spiritual world... humans are implied to be more of the earth... the dwarves... the abyss.. or inside the earth... the core... the quanari... dragons... the beasts... even race is symbolic... precious... they represent the whole... if the old God's are dragon... and the quanari are a mix bred of the old gods... that could explain the Quin... the need for more structure... Solas represents a spirit who does not want to be bound by any moral code... he himself represents the very essence of something that many would consider immoral... deception... trickery... buy he is useful... essential... remember what Mother Giselle tells you... faith must be tested in order to be faith... truth... in order to have complete understanding of who you are and what you believe in... what you are willing to live... die for... the truth of each one of us...

 

First, paragraphs and sentence structure are your friend. 

 

Second, I've played the game, all the way through, 20 times. Yes, I have a lot of free time. I don't agree with anything you say about Solas. 

 

There are plenty of videos and wiki information, feel free to link any of those resources to strengthen your argument. As it stands your head canon is not convincing. 

[lynroy]

Yes but if you look into the lore that inspired the writers in the first place there is more than just a few codex entries. 

*snip*

What lore are you talking about that inspired the writers? Greek? Roman? Norse? 

 

I hope your not suggesting that the Lore in the game that was written by the writers was what the writers used to inspire them to write Solas the way they did.

 

And you bring up Solas smiling when talking about Mythal's death. Ever heard of a sad smile? A sad laugh? Because that's what it was.

[MsCafeNoir]

OK, ignoring how insane this idea is in the first place, and how it relies on you not liking the delivery of a few lines which no-one else has had issue with -

It's a worse story. You are saying instead of a three dimensional, nuanced character, who has good points, but also massive flaws, and who makes mistakes but has understandable motivation for why he does what he does, he should just be "evil" and "insane". That's just terrible writing, and considering the entire Dragon Age series has always shown it's antagonists to be characters first, not just evil caricatures for you to cut down, I don't think they are going to not only going to start doing that now, but spend an entire game setting up a plot twist that they couldn't be bothered to write villains with actual motivation anymore.

There's also the fact that this would invalidate the previous plot twist that the Dread Wolf wasn't what we expected. You can't spend an entire game building up to a massive twist ending like that, just to go "Nah, not really, just kidding" in the next game.

It was meant to be subtle... it was never meant to be in your face... but they do give you clues through out the game if you have an open mind... a willingness to look deeper... body language... tone... is more important... often more meaningful... than words... I believe they designed the characters brilliantly... to delve into our sentiments... our need to believe in goodness... our desire for heroics... being good... I believe the developers had a lot of subtle psychology at play... hence the reminder of The Game... The Game that you are pulled into in the story... with Josephine, Cullen, Lelianna representing your indirect participation... until you play directly in game with choices or more memorable the winter palace... there is a subtle psychology to it all... and remember how Solas loved the winter palace... how he delighted in the game... but look at it overall... carefully... I think the writers... character creators are given us subtle clues... it isn't about being right or wrong to me... I am just admiring their hard work from afar... I am truly amazed at how well they did... I appreciate the real wisdom in it... enough to look again... dig deeper... it is beautiful in subtle dance... hence why most characters are dancing with the devil... their flaws... Cullen with addiction... Cassandra with Faith and her absolutes... Lelianna with her faith combined with deception, murder... Cole with the true meaning of Compassion... Blackwall with truth, honor, and what being a true hero means, Iron bull with loyalty to his people or himself, Sera with unfair dealing of the world, the poor, injustice... Dorian with status in contrast to his own needs and desires... Varric with his hard exterior while really feeling loss (Bianca), a need to follow, a desire for truth, yet he admits to spinning lies and finally Mythal... who is called the Mother... who bore it... with Dread Wolf... her friend... the rebel... the deceiver... the trickster laying at her feet...

[MsCafeNoir]

What lore are you talking about that inspired the writers? Greek? Roman? Norse? 
 
I hope your not suggesting that the Lore in the game that was written by the writers was what the writers used to inspire them to write Solas the way they did.
 
And you bring up Solas smiling when talking about Mythal's death. Ever heard of a sad smile? A sad laugh? Because that's what it was.

There is countless amount of lore, mythos, and religion they could have been inspired by, researched, borrowed... you read it as a smile... a fond memory... of her death... of lossing her, his dearest friend? I read it as duping delight... a smile a person makes subconscious when reliving a deception... a lie that worked... a sense of self admiration... a sense of victory... success... pride...

[lynroy]

I would believe it was a duping smile if not for his eyebrows being pulled together in sadness. As it is, I just don't see it the way you do.

[MsCafeNoir]

First, paragraphs and sentence structure are your friend.

Second, I've played the game, all the way through, 20 times. Yes, I have a lot of free time. I don't agree with anything you say about Solas.

There are plenty of videos and wiki information, feel free to link any of those resources to strengthen your argument. As it stands your head canon is not convincing.

I am ok with that, I don't offer anything absolute... just possibilities... I've watched and read tons of perspectives I have found none that truly contradict... in fact many... make similar points... arguments in favor of some of the more subtle clues... the writers have not given absolutes... only a foundation... and that makes me consider what Dorian said to Solas and Cole... listening to you two talk is like putting a puzzle together without all of the pieces... there are missing pieces... they are suppose to be missing for the sequel... which I believe will focus on the elves, their connection, their lore, and Solas... who when he cast the veil about the earth, separating the earth from the fade, the physical world from the spiritual world, it created the Blight... that is why he knows he must rip down the veil and restore the earth, the natural order of things, nature itself is fighting back to restore the natural order... the purpose... the truth... think of it as a couple, two immortal lovers, companions, the earth being one and the spirit... the fade being the other, think of it as if unnaturally separated, meant to be eternal, together forever... but then separated... forced apart... it is meant to be unnatural... outside of purpose... design...

[MsCafeNoir]

I would believe it was a duping smile if not for his eyebrows being pulled together in sadness. As it is, I just don't see it the way you do.

I can respect that... it is just my perspective... theory...

[MsCafeNoir]

First, paragraphs and sentence structure are your friend. 
 
Second, I've played the game, all the way through, 20 times. Yes, I have a lot of free time. I don't agree with anything you say about Solas. 
 
There are plenty of videos and wiki information, feel free to link any of those resources to strengthen your argument. As it stands your head canon is not convincing.

I am a very good writer... I can handle structure... when posting online with my tab... it has become my little bad habit... my ritual... it helps me to continue the flow of my thoughts... what I am trying to say clearly without the constant delay of formalities...

[MsCafeNoir]

Thanks for all of your feedback... I respect your thoughts... your opinions and will consider them... I have enjoyed this discussion and hope it continues on without me... I am not going to post anymore to this thread because real life calls... be blessed... have fun... Love the game... love the developers... love the writers... Love you Bioware!

[CoM Solaufein]

Not evil, just misunderstood.

[Hellion Rex]

Meh, I think he's evil.

[veeia]

I mean, it's possible, but it's kind of boring imo. It's much more of an interesting conflict if the antagonist (Solas) has more complexity to him than "I am super evil and delight in the suffering of others and tricking them into thinking I could care about anything!!!" I mean even Corypheus is more developed than that.

 

I'd be okay with him as perhaps possessing more villainous and dark attitudes than the game leads us to believe on a surface reading, but if he's just gonna be a trickster god who doesn't actually have emotional investment in the whole thing and is laughing all the time behind everyone's backs, I'd consider that a cheap story turn.

[the Dame]

Solas' evil glee... lol. 

 

Spoiler

 

#nonvaluableaddition

 

*wobbles back to tavern*

[Sah291]

Actually I do think it's possible he could have had something to do with Mythal's death, and that the relationship between them may not be as it seems. If he did, he likely would not have done it directly, or been blamed. Just like he was only indirectly responsible for the conclave explosion. I can't rule it out anyway.

I also think it's possible Mythal was really behind it (she was the people's protector and a goddess of justice after all, if the Evanuris were opressing people she might have acted to bring down the empire), and Solas is/was her agent.

It's also possible they were just subverting the archetype a little bit, by having him really not be all evil. The writers said originally in his character concept he was supposed to be much more of a liar, but they changed it.

[Almostfaceman]

Solas' evil glee... lol. 

 

Spoiler

 

#nonvaluableaddition

 

*wobbles back to tavern*

 

 

[BansheeOwnage]

I am a very good writer... I can handle structure... when posting online with my tab... it has become my little bad habit... my ritual... it helps me to continue the flow of my thoughts... what I am trying to say clearly without the constant delay of formalities...

Well if that's what you're trying to do, it isn't working, sorry. Like, why so many ellipses?

[nightscrawl]

Well if that's what you're trying to do, it isn't working, sorry. Like, why so many ellipses?

 

Sorry to drag this issue out, but I got the impression that the poster was referring to the flow of their thoughts while in the process of writing, not in how those thoughts are presented.

[Captain Wiseass]

Well, he's certainly willing to commit a very evil act.

[Macha'Anu]

Well, he's certainly willing to commit a very evil act.

So was Calpernia and it seems people love her and want her back. Loghain was evil some folks loved him, arishock some loved him. So meh. Sometimes people like who they like 

[VivainaDX]

 Solas = Soul less... without a soul...

I kind of equated the name with solar, as in pertaining to the sun and Mythal as a mother or mother earth, that is both life giving and temperamental. But ok, I guess it's all in interpretation.

[rapscallioness]

I kind of equated the name with solar, as in pertaining to the sun and Mythal as a mother or mother earth, that is both life giving and temperamental. But ok, I guess it's all in interpretation.

 

 

Well, many real world meanings of solas align with the idea of Light in some way. Light. Pride. Being alone, iirc. A few other things, too. Real world stuff.

 

Mostly Light. Which, ofc, is also Lucifer's true designation, The Bringer of Light. Light being knowledge.

 

Solas and Mythal have a strange relationship. There is affection and loyalty there, yet there is also this...antagonism? Resentment? I get the feeling sometimes that Solas both loves and resents Mythal.

 

I'd like to know more about their interaction and story together.

 

I don;t think Solas is evil like that. though. All hugging and giggling about his tricks and trolls and flamebaits. That was just hype. If he was like that in the lore, then BW airbrushed it a bit. Or the old lore is not absolutely on point, either. There is always spin. There is always propaganda regardless of where it comes from. You gotta cobble the truth together from several sources in order to get a better, though still not perfect, picture of things.

 

At the same time, I do not think Solas is the poor, misguided/misunderstood adorkable nerd that he affects so well. 

 

If BW does pursue a Solas that is like the Dread Wolf of legends, and he really is a dangerous mind, I hope BW does not pull punches just because he was a LI in one game.

[CoM Solaufein]

OMG, NO. He's fixing a problem and make elves great again.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Yep and we all need tinfoil hats because, well you know things will get in our heads if we don't wear them.

 

Solas is not one sided and you can't use fairy tails and fables as the inspiration for Solas unless you personally know the writers and they told you that specifically and, would go on record as saying that they were inspired by the traditional, fictional, Anglo/white/European connotations of a wolf.

 

A wold is a wary, cautious, intuitive, intelligent canine with strong pack (family) bonds and can be an amazing friend and companion but, threaten him or his pack (what's important to him) and he will defend himself and his pack. A wolf is not evil or bad, a wolf is protective of what is most important to him. he is cautious, slow to trust, not vicious or aggressive by nature but, very defensive. He only kills to survive, not for pleasure. That, to me is more Solas than the "Big Bad Wolf" image you want to paint of him.

 

Have you never consider that the few ancient elves left, even those still in uthanera, may not be able to survive much longer unless the veil is destroyed? Maybe Solas is a wolf, but just maybe he's trying to save his pack and, there is no other way except destroying the veil and, thus killing off several races and, making life very difficult for any other than his own that survive. That's what any wolf would do for his pack.