125 ответов в этой теме

[FloraTheElf]

I could never spare Loghain, even though I enjoy his character. The books were a great insight, but his character portrayal in the game makes him slightly more villainous imo. I wanted to spare him a few times, and even made characters with the intention of doing just that, but just could never betray Alistair like that. He's my utmost favorite companion/ LI, and can't even spare Loghain even of I harden Alistair. His pleas make me weak in the knees .

[Ferretinabun]

You're forgetting that Loghain is the Hero of River Dane, and the Human Noble possibly grew up hero-worshipping him. Depending on how you play it, that could well contribute to denial about the involvement Loghain had in the Cousland massacre and his other various crimes. That's how I rolled with it. "Loghain's a hero. He wouldn't do all this without a good reason. There must be an explanation..." etc.

[Acno777]

I'd have thought a mage follower or protégé of Uldred would jump at the chance to carry out his master's plan and unite with Loghain. And reject Alistair the templar as an added refinement.

The price to pay for such alliance would be to forcefully become an abomination among Uldred's ranks.

[ThomasBlaine]

The price to pay for such alliance would be to forcefully become an abomination among Uldred's ranks.

 

Not really. That was Uldred going mad, not Loghain's influence. A mage Warden could well appreciate Loghain's offer of independence to the circle for what it was.

 

The only problem for me with that particular issue is that freeing so many mages and recruiting them for Ferelden's own military would do at least as much to provoke the Orlesian invasion he's so afraid of as it would empower the army.

[Illegitimus]

I've considered the recruit Loghain route, but always defer to Alistair's rant.  Looking at the various origins, however, it seems that most Wardens would have gripes against Loghain that go beyond Ostagar.

 

How can you justify letting Loghain live if you're a city elf and have seen how Loghain tried to sell your alienage into slavery?  Despite lacking a direct connection to the city elves, I would expect a Dalish elf to hold a grudge against Loghain over this as well.

 

If you're a human noble who had his/her family massacred by Howe, you likely view Loghain as a silent accomplice to the crime.

 

The only origins that I think would even consider recruiting Loghain would be the dwarf origins and the Circle Mage origins since both would not have been directly impacted by Loghain's dirty intrigues.  But even here, in order to get Loghain, you're forced to throw Alistair under the bus.  Not an easy thing to do since it feels like the betrayal of a friend....

 

I recruited Loghain as a favour for Alistair since I didn't want his marriage to be a total nightmare.  He didn't seem to get that.  

[Deadly dwarf]

I recruited Loghain as a favour for Alistair since I didn't want his marriage to be a total nightmare.  He didn't seem to get that.  

 

The problem of keeping a vengeful Anora as Queen after the Wardens execute her father is something Alistair doesn't seem to consider.  Granted, the issue of Loghain's fate is an emotional one for Alistair; at very least, if you choose that route, King Alistair should -- in DA Inquisition -- acknowledge that the PC was wise to recruit Loghain. 

[Qun00]

The problem of keeping a vengeful Anora as Queen after the Wardens execute her father is something Alistair doesn't seem to consider. Granted, the issue of Loghain's fate is an emotional one for Alistair; at very least, if you choose that route, King Alistair should -- in DA Inquisition -- acknowledge that the PC was wise to recruit Loghain.

The three graphic novels take place near the events of Inquisition and Alistair still thinks and acts the same way he did in Origins. No growth at all.

So I find it unlikely that he could ever change his mind about sparing Loghain.

[Mike3207]

It's been a while but I think Alistair holds a grudge as long as Loghain is alive. His reaction might be better once Loghain is no longer alive.

[Acno777]

Not really. That was Uldred going mad, not Loghain's influence. A mage Warden could well appreciate Loghain's offer of independence to the circle for what it was.

 

The only problem for me with that particular issue is that freeing so many mages and recruiting them for Ferelden's own military would do at least as much to provoke the Orlesian invasion he's so afraid of as it would empower the army.

The mage's status as a Warden is a nuisance with the bounty placed on Alistair and the protagonist by Loghain. However, in an hypothetical scenario, if the mage never became a Warden in the first place and avoided meddling with Irving and Jowan shenanigans, so Greagoir could be out of his/her way then it could probably work depending on the character's ideals. Also, Wynne's snitching ass would need to be put down in order to have more support for freedom from the Chantry.

[vertigomez]

I found it easiest to recruit him as a Dwarf Commoner. Duncan gave me a chance when I was a no-good backstabbing thug, so I felt I was carrying on Duncan's legacy by offering Loghain that same mercy and a chance at redemption. I felt less like I was betraying Alistair than he was betraying me, because that could've easily been me kneeling on the floor, waiting for death.

I find it hardest to spare Loghain as a City Elf, because your father (and the rest of your community, for that matter) is nearly sold into slavery. Several of them are long gone at that point. It could have easily been you, if you hadn't been recruited, and worse still he brushes it off like it doesn't matter.

[Asha'bellanar]

I concur with the Dwarf Noble origin. It's the only one where I could really roleplay the recruiting of Loghain, for reasons already mentioned by many people. My DN arranged a marriage between Alistair and Anora (because that's how you do these things in Orzammar, and it seems to be the same on the surface) and then spared Loghain because he figured having another Grey Warden on hand would be good.

 

If you do recruit Loghain, do travel with him for a while and talk to him. Taking him on the Return to Ostagar quest with Wynne is interesting. My DN managed to build a relationship with Loghain and Loghain was quite cordial.

 

I'm sure it's possible to justify recruiting Loghain with other origins. I think city elf would be the most difficult (that whole selling elves into slavery thing, which, by the way, Loghain's right-hand-woman, Ser Cauthrien, will confirm was his doing if you choose the right dialogue options outside the Landsmeet), but it might be justified as a kind of payback/revenge, because, face it, the life of a Grey Warden kinda sucks. Pretty much any Warden who is pragmatic should be able to justify bringing in another Grey Warden, particularly if they really understand the "grey" part of being a Warden, and the fact that Wardens often come from criminal backgrounds. Anora's argument is a good one to convince a pragmatist: if he dies, you get your revenge. If he lives, you get an experienced general.

[Heimerdinger]

If payback happens to be the warden's intention then let's just say there are worse things than death. Recruiting Loghain works fine for all backgrounds.

[DeathWalksBehindYou]

My Circle Mage was an extreme pragmatist from the start. He was very used to making difficult decisions, beginning with being forced to throw that annoying twit Jowan under the ox-cart. When he found out that Alistair was Maric’s son, he began to wonder, why isn’t this man in line for the throne? He saw the potential as a leader of men, but was frustrated by his petulance and immaturity. And he realized that Riordan was right; they gained nothing from executing Loghain, particularly when so few Grey Wardens remain. So he made a difficult decision to force Alistair’s hand...at the cost of a friend. But he was here to stop the blight at any cost, not to make friends. And while Loghain had his grudging respect, he would never be a friend.

 

Note, this is my male Circle Mage. My female Circle Mage...O dear! She’s so in love with Alistair! I foresee great tragedy in her/their future. Not done with her playthrough yet, but I intend to see it through to the [very] bitter end.

[Deadly dwarf]

My female Circle Mage...O dear! She’s so in love with Alistair! I foresee great tragedy in her/their future. Not done with her playthrough yet, but I intend to see it through to the [very] bitter end.

 

Sounds like an Ultimate Sacrifice ending?  If she's in love with Alistair, she won't risk the relationship to save the guy who, in his quest for power, created anarchy all over Ferelden.  The quagmires you run into in both Redcliffe and the Tower have his fingerprints on them.  Only the Dalish and Dwarven situations are not his fault. 

[DeathWalksBehindYou]

Well, someone’s definitely dying! Either her or Alistair, we’ll see when we get there.

[Mike3207]

Sounds like an Ultimate Sacrifice ending?  If she's in love with Alistair, she won't risk the relationship to save the guy who, in his quest for power, created anarchy all over Ferelden.  The quagmires you run into in both Redcliffe and the Tower have his fingerprints on them.  Only the Dalish and Dwarven situations are not his fault. 

Loghain offers the mages their freedom. No quagmire there, except for maybe the one Wynne creates.

 

Honestly, i think Loghain did the right thing at the Circle Tower, and unfairly gets a lot of grief for it.

[Ferretinabun]

Wait, what did Loghain have to do with the Broken Circle? That was all Uldred, surely? Not every antagonist has to be Loghain's puppet.

[HeliosDisciple]

Wait, what did Loghain have to do with the Broken Circle? That was all Uldred, surely? Not every antagonist has to be Loghain's puppet.

 

He didn't have anything to do with all the demon-summoning. He offered to make the Circle independent of the Chantry if they backed him. Uldred jumped on that because he's anti-Chantry, and everybody else had almost agreed when Wynne arrived from Ostagar and told everybody what happened there. Then the demon-summoning started.

[straykat]

Circle, Dalish, both Dwarves... for me anyways

[Melbella]

I spared him twice. First time with my female Circle Mage, who married Alistair to Anora. He ended up hating her but she romanced Zevran so didn't really care. Loghain died killing Archie in that game. Second time was male Cousland who married Anora. Cousland romanced Leliana and did the DR with Morrigan, so he ended up king, Loghain stayed in the Wardens, and Alistair became a drunk.

[straykat]

I forgot about marrying Anora... that works too.

[Aren]

My 2 were a dwarf noble who respected his skills and thought Alistair was a sissy, and a Dalish who gave anyone a second chance (after making Alistair safe as king). She saved Sten, why not Loghain? The wardens aren't honourable, they take the worst of the worst after all.

I even recruited a disciple of the darkspawn in  Amaranthine  Loghain can't be worst than that.

[Aren]

The three graphic novels take place near the events of Inquisition and Alistair still thinks and acts the same way he did in Origins. No growth at all.

 

Man child forever without hope of growth.

Take a look to his letter to the Inquisitor and his diplomacy skill in DAI......

[Catilina]

I've considered the recruit Loghain route, but always defer to Alistair's rant.  Looking at the various origins, however, it seems that most Wardens would have gripes against Loghain that go beyond Ostagar.

 

How can you justify letting Loghain live if you're a city elf and have seen how Loghain tried to sell your alienage into slavery?  Despite lacking a direct connection to the city elves, I would expect a Dalish elf to hold a grudge against Loghain over this as well.

 

If you're a human noble who had his/her family massacred by Howe, you likely view Loghain as a silent accomplice to the crime.

 

The only origins that I think would even consider recruiting Loghain would be the dwarf origins and the Circle Mage origins since both would not have been directly impacted by Loghain's dirty intrigues.  But even here, in order to get Loghain, you're forced to throw Alistair under the bus.  Not an easy thing to do since it feels like the betrayal of a friend....

A powerhungry/ambitious male Cousland, who marry with Anora fit to recruit Loghain. A nice gesture for Anora, and this maybe just a postponed execution...

 

(Otherwise, not kill someone is not really evil thing, and Loghain surrendered.)

[bunch1]

If your warden recruits someone who murders children with his bare hands because their parents saved his life but forgot to bring his sword with them then they should have no reason not to recruit someone who got people killed, but at least not with his own hands, in what he believed was the best interest of the country.  If you have a problem with Loghain then you should have a problem with Sten as well.  Ignoring that I like to play devil's advocate.

 

Human Noble:Politics are something you've been raise to know and knowing that you have had your revenge on Howe you could use not only an expendable warden but the support of those who still support the hero of rive dane.

 

Human Mage:You have no love for any of the people he has wronged, discarded by humanity as cursed, and he did seem to support free mages.  If your character hated the chantry and circle even better.  Again, you could also use the support of his allies so keep him.

 

Elf Mage:You are from an aliange so the slavery is a big issue but your from Highever if I remember right so your family were not affected personalty.  Still, as an elf mage you don't expect much from humans outside the circle so you are not surprised by what happened and you are so disconnected from them that you don't really consider yourself a city elf anymore, you are a mage and warden now.  So again, the promise of more support stopping the blight may tempt you to bring on another shem meat shield. 

 

City Elf:Loghain's betrayal at ostoager did kill the arl of denerim so that makes me happy, point in his favor.  Slavery, not happy, point against.  Starting a shem civil war and getting a bunch of the nobility killed and all their soldiers, several points in his favor.  Making my job harder then it needs to be, point against.  Spare him and put another shem between the darkspawn and me, yes please because even if we win it's no guarantee he'll survive, friendly fire is just a reality of war after all.

 

Dalish Elf:Sure, enslaving elves isn't good but they choose to live with the shems who's ancestors enslaved them so it's there own dam fault.  They could have left and found a clan to join, there never turned away.  Loghain hasn't done anything to the Dalish so I don't care what's he done only what he can do now to help end the blight and him dying at the landsmeet isn't helping.

 

Dwarf Noble:Loghain was acting like a dwarf politician.  Respect that.  He recognizes his defeat and submits to judgment.  Respect that.  No need to throw away a good tool when it still might have some use, particularly because no one really cares if you break it later.

 

Dwarf Commoner:Backstabbing is a part of life in the carta.  Power changes hands, but your just a grunt who has orders to carry out.  So who cares if Loghain betrayed people you didn't know?  Your in charge now and he knows things about the surface, Ferelden, the army that you don't know so he can be useful so he can live.  And if he shows signs of turning you can always arrange something to befall him in his sleep.

 

Personally, I would only spare him if I didn't plan to do the dark ritual.  I always romance Morrigan, if male, because even if I plan to peruse Leliana I can do the whole Morrigan romance then once she breaks up with me I can pursue Leliana.  So if I'm either unable to sire a child, female, or unwilling, committed to Leliana but not every time, I can't do the ritual myself and I am loath to just give her to Alistair.  A part of me is still attached to her and unwilling to force her to lay with someone she actively seems to hate.  So I need a sacrificial lamb to deliver the killing blow.  Sure, Loghain being remembered as a hero is a downside but I get live, Alister lives as king with a beautiful wife and Loghain is dead so all's well that ends well.