529 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

You haven't thought far enough ahead. To make contact with the people sent off to Andromeda, and bring them back into the fold, creating an inter galactic civilisation.

 

Look at how much ME tech advanced during the trilogy. The Turians for example were able to reverse engineer Reaper weapons tech in only a couple years after Sovereign was destroyed. It's not a big leap to assume Reaper FTL tech could be reverse engineered and improved upon within say 200 years after ME3 ends.  

 

Why isn't it a big leap to assume they reverse engineer the engine in about 2 years too, much like the weapons? They can just say Sovereign did survive in in quite intact parts, the Council just divided up the best stuff between them and lied about it to Shepard. 

[RoboticWater]

Well apparently it only takes three games to use up an entire galaxy's worth of stories...

No, it takes three games worth of choices and consequences to complicate the continuity of an entire galaxy. Mass Effect could easily stay around forever if BioWare just canonized an ending and pushed forward, but they've decided not to do that.

 

Either we canonize a continuity and use that, we wait until games are technologically advanced enough to react to all of our various choices, or we keep moving forward into new sectors of the universe. BioWare ruled out the first, and the second is just wishful thinking, but the third just doesn't seem all that likely given how Mass Effect's universe works. It's not the right universe to keep jumping around to different locations and cultures. Once can work perfectly, but twice or more? That's pushing it.

[SofaJockey]

I could see the franchise moving back to the Milky Way after 3 games in Andromeda.

By the 35th Century, a wave of plot issues can have been dealt with.

[UpUpAway95]

If, within two decades, developers able to build an ever-expanding universe that can actually react to player choice, then I still don't think Mass Effect is the franchise to do it with. Like I said, I just don't think the game's lore is firm enough to bear an expanded universe.

 

If you look at the big everlasting sci-fi franchises, Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who, for example, there's one shared feature that I think keeps them from going stale: anything can be around the corner. Pick a planet in any one of those universes and there could be an infinite number of stories to tell about completely alien peoples and completely alien concepts. It's the perfect base for an anthology. Not only can these universes keep themselves fresh with new props and costumes, they can tell completely unique stories with their own distinct moods and themes.

 

That just doesn't seem like something Mass Effect is capable of doing. It's a fairly grounded universe (compared to these other franchises) with a limited number of alien species told thorough a very personal and serialized main plot. There's just not a lot of wiggle room to keep going with the same mechanical formula. You can tell and infinite number of stories in any setting, but I think Mass Effect only has room for so many BioWare RPGs before it'll start to wear thin.

 

You may be right... that they are planning this out as a defined trilogy with a defined ending in sight... but, they aren't saying that and yet they do seem to be putting more effort into this than I would expect if this were just a planned one-off game.

 

At any rate, all will be answered when and as it happens in the future.  (Chances are, at my age, I won't be around in that 2 decades or so to see it - but that's just being human).

[Bakgrind]

According to an article from Gamespot the ending for Mass Effect 3 wont impact Andromeda

 

Link http://www.gamespot....-/1100-6441040/

 

 

Mass Effect: Andromeda will not carry over the decision players made at the end of Mass Effect 3, developer BioWare has confirmed.

Depending on the choice made in Mass Effect 3, specifically whether the player opts to control the Reapers, destroy them and all synthetic life, or synthesize all organic and synthetic life, the galaxy could change profoundly. The outcome of this decision, however, will not be reflected in the next game.

Speaking to Eurogamer, BioWare studio boss Aaryn Flynn said the fallout of Mass Effect 3's final decision was "acknowledged" in the game's endings.

"I think that's where we want to leave it for now," he added. "We want [Andromeda] to be a new story and it would be very hard to say it's a new story, but also that you need to understand how [the previous trilogy] ended."

 

The decision to set the game in a new galaxy allows the events of the previous games and the results of a player's action to exist, while also starting a fresh story in the same universe.

 

Andromeda won't completely ditch the lore the Mass Effect trilogy has established thus far, however.

"It's important for us to have elements from the [original trilogy] for fans to have in the background," said creative director Mac Walters. "Ultimately this is intended to be a fresh story, but we want to have things for people to find and go, 'Oh, I remember that character.'"

He continued: "There's a coalition [of Milky Way races]. We needed to find a way to make sure certain species you're familiar with come along with you on your journey to meet new ones.

 

"As in the tradition of Mass Effect, there will be certain people working together happily, and certain people working together less happily."

[In Exile]

No, it takes three games worth of choices and consequences to complicate the continuity of an entire galaxy. Mass Effect could easily stay around forever if BioWare just canonized an ending and pushed forward, but they've decided not to do that.

Either we canonize a continuity and use that, we wait until games are technologically advanced enough to react to all of our various choices, or we keep moving forward into new sectors of the universe. BioWare ruled out the first, and the second is just wishful thinking, but the third just doesn't seem all that likely given how Mass Effect's universe works. It's not the right universe to keep jumping around to different locations and cultures. Once can work perfectly, but twice or more? That's pushing it.

If they canonized an ending they have such a firestorm of unyielding hate they'd kill their brand dead for a generation. You have to accept they killed the MW with MEs ending.

[iM3GTR]

You want to know how they got to Andromeda?

A wizard did it.

[dreamgazer]

If they canonized an ending they have such a firestorm of unyielding hate they'd kill their brand dead for a generation. You have to accept they killed the MW with MEs ending.

They'd also have to canonize a whole hell of a lot more than an ending. They'd have to canonize an entire world-state with three games of forks in the road.

[FrietzMG]

I usually don't write here, but I think it's important and I like to share some of my thoughts to add to our speculations:

 

If we take into account all the information that we were passed to us by the developers and in E3, and assume they are all true (I'm still not sure of what was really confirmed), let's put notes on what is fully confirmed and come to a few conclusions:

 

Assuming:

There is no canon ending to ME3. (Information by the devs)

 

Which means that all of our decisions on the endgame will be respected (as the developers said), and most likely will not have any impact on ME:A.

 

Therefore, the portion of the video which clearly shows the arks above Earth (and I am ASSUMING it's Earth, with all the alliance ships around) CANNOT occur

after ME3 events, and extremely unlikely during ME3 events, because of the Reaper invasion AND because to some players, the Crucible was never activated, so the Reapers continue to destroy the galaxy and complete their cycle of extinction.

 

There was no Reapers in that part of the video, and I doubt they would just let three huge ships leave the galaxy during the war.

 

" Apparently the colonists had a choice to go to Andromeda, since they all have different motivations (adventure, curiosity, running from something or they just want a fresh start)"

 

If that's true then it was an open invitation to people. How can you put a sizable number of different species in huge ships to ensure the continuity of civilization (whether the objective it's to run from the impending doom, exploration, adventure, etc.) and make sure it's all a big secret from the rest of the galaxy?

 

And most importantly, assuming this all happens before the Reaper invasion (extremely likely), how did you find or build this immensely powerful technology to travel to another galaxy and no one, NO ONE, by the time of ME3 (or ME1 or 2, if it happened before) mentions?

 

Even the civilizations leaders, the primarch, the dalatrass, the council, Hackett? Not a single one of them knew? Or there are shadow forces at work (again) that have this kind of pull?

 

Sorry, but it's really hard to believe.

 

I see retcons coming.

 

And, sorry for my english.

[RoboticWater]

If they canonized an ending they have such a firestorm of unyielding hate they'd kill their brand dead for a generation. You have to accept they killed the MW with MEs ending.

Precisely, especially now after they've been so publicly adamant about declaring no canon.

 

Of all the options BioWare left themselves, going to Andromeda was probably the best move.

[mopotter]

They could  have Anderson's voice talking to someone with the idea that it's sometime between ME2 and ME3 

 

200 years after they leave?  That's one time frame I've heard for how long it takes the ship to get to where ever it's going.  So they could have Anderson talking about the fall back plan where they are sending a group out into unexplored space and hoping it works out. See the ships leaving and then some indication that time is going by, and then wake up call.  

 

I will be interested to see what the do.  So far, the idea of the game looks good to me.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Canonizing an ending isn't enough. They would need to canonize a world state too. Genophage or no Genophage? Rachni or no Rachni? Quarians and Geth, what gives? (insert squadmate here), dead or alive? Council, original or new and improved? Plus al lthe other choices I'm forgetting now.

 

Loads of people would be upset. I do think the Andromeda solution was the best one, short of retconing the endings entirely, but that opens a new can of worms; what happens to the races of the galaxy, the Reapers, etc.

[dreamgazer]

Said it before and I'll say it again: brilliant ending or terrible ending, BioWare would have a very similar problem on their hands. Especially if there was any kind of divergence in said "brilliant" ending. 

[In Exile]

They'd also have to canonize a whole hell of a lot more than an ending. They'd have to canonize an entire world-state with three games of forks in the road.

I tend to consider that all part of the ending, especially with the EC's apparent voice over (I actually found it so ridiculous I couldn't even watch it once, and basically dropped the series at that point.)

[In Exile]

Canonizing an ending isn't enough. They would need to canonize a world state too. Genophage or no Genophage? Rachni or no Rachni? Quarians and Geth, what gives? (insert squadmate here), dead or alive? Council, original or new and improved? Plus al lthe other choices I'm forgetting now.

Loads of people would be upset. I do think the Andromeda solution was the best one, short of retconing the endings entirely, but that opens a new can of worms; what happens to the races of the galaxy, the Reapers, etc.

I'm not sure I agree - you have your answer to all that by way or the ME3 ending. If the answer isn't satisfying that's just a feature of the ending being bad.

[AlanC9]

I though Giantdeathrobot was saying that we don't get to satisfaction because doing them all is impossible.

[rocklikeafool]

What if MEA happens thousands of years after ME3? HOW ARE WE TO KNOW?!

[Sartoz]

 

 Snip

 

" Apparently the colonists had a choice to go to Andromeda, since they all have different motivations (adventure, curiosity, running from something or they just want a fresh start)"

 

If that's true then it was an open invitation to people. How can you put a sizable number of different species in huge ships to ensure the continuity of civilization (whether the objective it's to run from the impending doom, exploration, adventure, etc.) and make sure it's all a big secret from the rest of the galaxy?

 

And most importantly, assuming this all happens before the Reaper invasion (extremely likely), how did you find or build this immensely powerful technology to travel to another galaxy and no one, NO ONE, by the time of ME3 (or ME1 or 2, if it happened before) mentions?

 

Even the civilizations leaders, the primarch, the dalatrass, the council, Hackett? Not a single one of them knew? Or there are shadow forces at work (again) that have this kind of pull?

 

Sorry, but it's really hard to believe.

 

I see retcons coming.

 

And, sorry for my english.

 

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It's not rocket science.

 

1. I agree it's before the Reaper invasion

2. Shep gave a goodbye message to the ARKCON crew, She knew and not doubt Hackett also.

3.  Earth was establishing colonies all over the galactic map. It's unsurprising they found many who wanted to leave for a "better world".

4. "Big secret"?  The Alliance Initiative had no obligation to tell them the exact location or could have simply lied to them or did a superb Bio marketing trick by telling prospective colonists that the Alliance found a new location away far away from the Reaper Threat.

5. Promethean tech was reverse engineered. For one, the Alliance had an actual stasis pod from Javik .

 

No, there will be no retcon, I assure you. It would be too messy. Besides, Bio has no obligation to explain the tech for the trans-galactic voyage and the ARK's engines.

[AlanC9]

Therefore, the portion of the video which clearly shows the arks above Earth (and I am ASSUMING it's Earth, with all the alliance ships around) CANNOT occur
after ME3 events, and extremely unlikely during ME3 events, because of the Reaper invasion AND because to some players, the Crucible was never activated, so the Reapers continue to destroy the galaxy and complete their cycle of extinction.

Note that there is a period lasting some hours at the beginning of ME3 where the Reapers haven't arrived at Earth yet, but Anderson and Hackett are aware they're coming.

Even the civilizations leaders, the primarch, the dalatrass, the council, Hackett?

Who says they didn't know? The Citadel DLC already established that the Council lied to Shepard about not believing in the Reapers.

[FrietzMG]

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It's not rocket science.

 

1. I agree it's before the Reaper invasion

2. Shep gave a goodbye message to the ARKCON crew, She knew and not doubt Hackett also.

3.  Earth was establishing colonies all over the galactic map. It's unsurprising they found many who wanted to leave for a "better world".

4. "Big secret"?  The Alliance Initiative had no obligation to tell them the exact location or could have simply lied to them or did a superb Bio marketing trick by telling prospective colonists that the Alliance found a new location away far away from the Reaper Threat.

5. Promethean tech was reverse engineered. For one, the Alliance had an actual stasis pod from Javik .

 

No, there will be no retcon, I assure you. It would be too messy. Besides, Bio has no obligation to explain the tech for the trans-galactic voyage and the ARK's engines.

 

"It's not rocket science." - Traveling 2.5 million light years with technology inferior to Reaper tech.

Of course, they could have found another ancient technology from a species outside the milky way to cover this, but didn't use it to fight the reapers, or mention it at all.

 

"Shep gave a goodbye message to the ARKCON crew, She knew and not doubt Hackett also." - Yet in all conversations Hackett and Shepard had during the Reaper war they didn't bother to mention their species escape plan, or even the possibility of the Reapers finding out, or any problem in logistics anyone involved could've faced it. Or even when the asari councilor says "plans must be put in motion, continuity of civilization has to be considered...", Shepard didn't mention it at all, to anyone, at any point in the war this huge deal for the survival of their species, in another place, far away from there.

 

"t's unsurprising they found many who wanted to leave for a "better world"."  - "The Alliance Initiative had no obligation to tell them the exact location or could have simply lied to them or did a superb Bio marketing trick by telling prospective colonists that the Alliance found a new location away far away from the Reaper Threat." - So let's all travel to a place we don't know where, away from everyone we know, in a ultra huge citadel-like spaceship because we need to run from a threat the general population has no knowledge of and the government officially denies it exists. But will be exciting, they promised!

 

Promethean (prothean) tech was reverse engineered. (For one, the Alliance had an actual stasis pod from Javik. - Which they discovered DURING the reaper war.)  And the others before it, never turn out to actually help in the war, but were able to turn prothean tech (inferior to reaper tech) into ships that can fly into another galaxy millions of light years away in just a few hundred years.

 

 

But what you said is true, Bioware doesn't have to explain anything to anyone, or even make sense, but that is what kills the immersion for me.

 

________________________________________________________________________

Saren, which never states in the original game he plans to attack the Citadel and there isn't any evidence he plans to do so, but when you are at the endgame, the Council somehow knows he's going to attack them, because you apparently told them.

 

Illusive Man is affected by the reapers for 30 years, gains a lot of visions and other abilities, like other species languages from them, but was able to resurrect their greatest enemy, and then turn against him/her because he wants to control those ancient machines (which you are forced to disagree it's the best solution), so he goes hunting for the catalyst, but he can't use it without the crucible, so he warns the Reapers to protect the Citadel so the Crucible can never dock there to begin with, to allow him a chance to try.

 

Trying to reclaim Earth with all your forces even before knowing what the Catalyst is, potentially jeopardizing all the war-effort.

Hackett - "For all intents and purposes, an assault on Cerberus will be the first stage in our attack on Earth"

 

 

Kai Lame, appears with a gunship from nowhere in Thessia's temple, but you can't shoot the gunship down (after killing Reapers, thresher maws, gunships, harvesters, spectres) and don't call Cortez for backup, or the Normandy (never stated during the mission you couldn't contact him/them, and how did you returned to the Normandy later?). Shepard doesn't run towards Leng when the temple is collapsing, doesn't charge, doesn't turn cloak on, and no squadmate appears to at least distract him. Or before, in the Citadel, turn the cop car upside down, or stop abruptly so he falls to his death.

 

Stupidity turns on in the trilogy so we can have these "dramatic and emotional" moments.

 

"We fight or we die, that's the plan!"

 

"The Citadel? The fight's here!"

__________________________________________________

 

And if anything, video games (for me) should never insult the intelligence of their customers. Sure as hell want to see how they are going to wrap all this up, if they do.

 

But that's just me.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I though Giantdeathrobot was saying that we don't get to satisfaction because doing them all is impossible.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant. If Bioware decides the Genophage stays, how many people will go ''but I wanted it gone!!'' and so on and so forth?

 

Cripes, just Leliana being alive in DA2/DAI was enough to ruffle some feathers. And that would be very minor compared to Bioware having to set in stone most of the trilogy's big decisions.

[Malanek]

Yeah, that's what I meant. If Bioware decides the Genophage stays, how many people will go ''but I wanted it gone!!'' and so on and so forth?

 

Cripes, just Leliana being alive in DA2/DAI was enough to ruffle some feathers. And that would be very minor compared to Bioware having to set in stone most of the trilogy's big decisions.

Having Leliana alive in DA2 was absolutely not the same thing as setting a canon or default world state. It was giving you an import, saying it was your world, but then effectively making a retcon. It's exactly why I think they should do away with import files altogether. They simply don't have resources to handle a genuine branching narrative. It actually cheapens the players choice by rendering any decisions they make to be superficial.

[In Exile]

Having Leliana alive in DA2 was absolutely not the same thing as setting a canon or default world state. It was giving you an import, saying it was your world, but then effectively making a retcon. It's exactly why I think they should do away with import files altogether. They simply don't have resources to handle a genuine branching narrative. It actually cheapens the players choice by rendering any decisions they make to be superficial.

 

They did give you a choice: they gave you a choice in ME1-ME3. Then ME:4 would tell you to go fist yourself. It's exactly the same thing as DA2, which did set a cannon. And as DA:I literally says, the Leliana alive vs. dead state does give you a different outcome. It's total hogwash, of course, but that doesn't make it a retcon. 

[AlanC9]

Saren, which never states in the original game he plans to attack the Citadel and there isn't any evidence he plans to do so, but when you are at the endgame, the Council somehow knows he's going to attack them, because you apparently told them.

Well, that's the thing about Mass Effect. Being a fan has meant putting up with this sort of thing right from the start.

[Malanek]

They did give you a choice: they gave you a choice in ME1-ME3. Then ME:4 would tell you to go fist yourself. It's exactly the same thing as DA2, which did set a cannon. And as DA:I literally says, the Leliana alive vs. dead state does give you a different outcome. It's total hogwash, of course, but that doesn't make it a retcon. 

All the choices in ME1-3 were superficial to me. Whatever happened would very quickly funnel into exactly the same situation with at best a different looking character. If someone was dead, another character took their place to fulfill the same role.  You kill the Rachni and they come back anyway because they are important to the ME3 plot. Work with Cerberus right through ME2, too bad you are at war with them either way in ME3. There is a facade of choice and none of it has any meaningful change.

 

The Leliana alive change to me was a retcon. They give you a choice in DAO, but then decided to take that away because she was important to the greater plot. I have no problem with them doing that so long as they don't pretend to do otherwise. There are a lot of interesting situations that arise through various endings and choices that occur in Bioware games, but we will never explore them due to their insistence on using an import feature.

 

ME:A is OK by me. I am somewhat annoyed we have to abandon much of the setting, once again because of their import feature, and the premise of getting there sounds pretty shaky. But I still believe they can tell a good story within a new galaxy and they won't spend a huge amount of resource in making a bunch of superficial differences for previous player choice.