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Mac Walters came by and now we know this (or: all the E3 info)


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#651
Almostfaceman

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The Cerberus point is totally different. It's different because it has nothing to do with even basic techno babble, and just is directly tied to crap writing. It's not a matter of "consistency" because the game does acknowledge it - it just handwaves it away in a stupid way to keep you on the railroad.

 

No, no it's not. And no, the Sole Survivor backstory isn't acknowledged at all. Not even a hand wave. Just the general killing of Cerberus in ME1 is acknowledged. Sole Survivor is different because that was a case of Cerberus making Shep and his squad/platoon/whatever directly a subject of a deadly scientific Cerberus experiment. It's totally inconsistent for a Shep with that background to work with Cerberus under any conditions short of brainwashing and/or amnesia. It's a perfect example of the authors not paying attention to their story. Shep never gets to talk to any Cerberus agent about the incident at all, ever. 


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#652
Fogg

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No, no it's not. And no, the Sole Survivor backstory isn't acknowledged at all. Not even a hand wave. Just the general killing of Cerberus in ME1 is acknowledged. Sole Survivor is different because that was a case of Cerberus making Shep and his squad/platoon/whatever directly a subject of a deadly scientific Cerberus experiment. It's totally inconsistent for a Shep with that background to work with Cerberus under any conditions short of brainwashing and/or amnesia. It's a perfect example of the authors not paying attention to their story. Shep never gets to talk to any Cerberus agent about the incident at all, ever. 

 

ironically the deafult John Shepard starts with sole survivor background


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#653
BloodyMares

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ironically the deafult John Shepard starts with sole survivor background

So you would think they would pay more attention to this kind of background.



#654
azarhal

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ironically the deafult John Shepard starts with sole survivor background

 

And you can tell TIM to ****** off in basically every conversations you have with him too. Hell, you can have Miranda tell TIM to ****** off at the end of the game if you play your card properly.



#655
BloodyMares

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And you can tell TIM to ****** off in basically every conversations you have with him too. Hell, you can have Miranda tell TIM to ****** off at the end of the game if you play your card properly.

No, you can't. You can only tell TIM to **** off after the Sucide Mission. Until then you will whine but you will still do what he wants. Sole Survivor wouldn't work with TIM no matter what.


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#656
Iakus

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Wait.. if we're all admitting that it's just technobabble, what's the substance of the dispute?

Bioware paying attention to their own lore.  Or the lack of attention, as the case may be

 

  
So let's say a writer invents incredibly sophisticated technobabble rules. This is dumb because it just ends up hamstringing you later on and all the stuff you make up is nonsense anyway, but you come up with a bunch of rules. Whether some future fact is consistent with your nonsense is still up for debate.
 

It constrains the writer, but it makes for more interesting challenges.  The limitations are things the protagonists may need to find a way to overcome.

 

Superman stopping some bank robbers isn't very interesting.  Superman stopping bank robbers armed with kryptonite makes things more interesting.

 

I'm pretty sure In Exile's saying that ME is space fantasy too.

Even fantasy stories have rules.  Good stories do, anyway.  Otherwise why can't the wizard in the party simply turn the Evil Overlord into a tree then summon a flock of woodpeckers?


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#657
In Exile

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Bioware paying attention to their own lore. Or the lack of attention, as the case may be

It constrains the writer, but it makes for more interesting challenges. The limitations are things the protagonists may need to find a way to overcome.

Superman stopping some bank robbers isn't very interesting. Superman stopping bank robbers armed with kryptonite makes things more interesting.

Even fantasy stories have rules. Good stories do, anyway. Otherwise why can't the wizard in the party simply turn the Evil Overlord into a tree then summon a flock of woodpeckers?


You're missing the point. Setting aside the fact that I think the idea of beating a big bad by using shapeshifting magic into something innocuous is actually a cool concept that's a lot better than just murdering the **** out of an eldritch abomination, the issue isn't with non-sequiturs. You (and others) keep giving that example, but that's not at issue here.

To use the kryptonite example, the issue isn't with it existing or being hokey as a concept. It's saying that fiction should have some in-depth treatise on the chemical features of kryptonite, and then arguing that it's not really consistent with the nonsense chemistry rules they invented for kryptonyte to behave in X or Y way.

And good fantasy sometimes doesn't have rules at all - the Song of Ice and Fire series gives us nothing on how the rules of magic work. And we have insane stuff like having sex with a witch let's her create murderous shadow baby regicide machines. In the right hands - a good writer - the fact that magic has no predictable rules or formula is a pro, not a con.

#658
vbibbi

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FIFA has a story mode?! I can't even imagine what that would be.

#659
In Exile

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No, no it's not. And no, the Sole Survivor backstory isn't acknowledged at all. Not even a hand wave. Just the general killing of Cerberus in ME1 is acknowledged. Sole Survivor is different because that was a case of Cerberus making Shep and his squad/platoon/whatever directly a subject of a deadly scientific Cerberus experiment. It's totally inconsistent for a Shep with that background to work with Cerberus under any conditions short of brainwashing and/or amnesia. It's a perfect example of the authors not paying attention to their story. Shep never gets to talk to any Cerberus agent about the incident at all, ever.


First of all, the handwave is right there: Shepard works with the insane space racist TIM and his borderline fascist organization because they're the only ones intending on stopping the Reapers. It's stupid for everyone.

Sole Survivor isn't different, not really. But this loops back to the debate about characterization - I don't think it's at all incoherent or inconsistent for a sole survivor Shepard who knows about Azuke to work with TIM anymore than I think it's OK for a War Hero Shepard to do it. The fact that Shepard is affected personally does not somehow make all the things Cerberus does monstrous.

But this again loops back to the what does it mean to be consistent point.

You are right however that it seems there's no specific content addressing Akuze directly. I thought there was but I also never played sole survivor since I thought it was a nonsensical and ridiculous basis for Shepard to be a Spectre candidate.

#660
BloodyMares

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And good fantasy sometimes doesn't have rules at all - the Song of Ice and Fire series gives us nothing on how the rules of magic work. And we have insane stuff like having sex with a witch let's her create murderous shadow baby regicide machines. In the right hands - a good writer - the fact that magic has no predictable rules or formula is a pro, not a con.

It does have rules for magic. Like a white walker can only be killed by dragon's fire, by valyrian steel or by obsidian. These rules have been consistent and were not broken. 


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#661
In Exile

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It does have rules for magic. Like a white walker can only be killed by dragon's fire, by valerian steel or by obsidian. These rules have been consistent and were not broken.

We have never seen a white walker killed by valyrian steel or dragonfire in the books. We saw Sam kill one with Obsidian. That's about it.

And that's not "magic". Humans are super vulnerable to being killed by steel, but that's not exactly seen as lore consistency.

In setting, these are all presented as hypotheses about how the world works. Good fantasy doesn't pretend like the characters actually know the rules of their world, just like we don't. IRL, if a physics theory turns out wrong physicists don't publish papers about how God is a lazy bum that decided to retcon reality because it wasn't paying enough attention.

#662
SKAR

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It could even be the N7 guy

I'm N7 guy. That's what I believe.

#663
Linkenski

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Bioware paying attention to their own lore.  Or the lack of attention, as the case may be

Or simply Bioware's decreasing attention to detail within their lore which takes it from techy-talky to wishy-washy, from sci-fi-esque to fantasy-esque.



#664
Iakus

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You're missing the point. Setting aside the fact that I think the idea of beating a big bad by using shapeshifting magic into something innocuous is actually a cool concept that's a lot better than just murdering the **** out of an eldritch abomination, the issue isn't with non-sequiturs. You (and others) keep giving that example, but that's not at issue here.
 

Frodo was across the Ford.

But the pursuers were close behind. At the top of the bank the horse halted and turned about neighing fiercely. There were Nine Riders at the water's edge below, and Frodo's spirit quailed before the threat of their uplifted faces. He knew of nothing that would prevent them from crossing as easily as he had done; and he felt that it was useless to try to escape over the long uncertain path from the Ford to the edge of Rivendell, if once the Riders crossed. In any case he felt that he was commanded urgently to halt. Hatred again stirred in him, but he had no longer the strength to refuse.

Suddenly the foremost Rider spurred his horse forward. It checked at the water and reared up. With a great effort Frodo sat upright and brandished his sword.

'Go back!' he cried. 'Go back to the Land of Mordor, and follow me no more!' His voice sounded thin and shrill in his own ears. The Riders halted, but Frodo had not the power of Bombadil. His enemies laughed at him with a harsh and chilling laughter. 'Come back! Come back!' they called. 'To Mordor we will take you!'

'Go back!' he whispered.

'The Ring! The Ring!' they cried with deadly voices; and immediately their leader urged his horse forward into the water, followed closely by two others.

'By Elbereth and Lúthien the Fair,' said Frodo with a last effort, lifting up his sword, 'you shall have neither the Ring nor me!'

Then the leader, who was now half across the Ford, stood up menacing in his stirrups, and raised up his hand. Frodo was stricken dumb.... The foremost of the black horses had almost set foot upon the shore

 

Now tell me, why couldn't Frodo drive back the Ringwraiths?  Why could he not scare them off with the name of Elbereth?  Why not turn them into trees?  WHy did he need to be rescued?

 

 

 

To use the kryptonite example, the issue isn't with it existing or being hokey as a concept. It's saying that fiction should have some in-depth treatise on the chemical features of kryptonite, and then arguing that it's not really consistent with the nonsense chemistry rules they invented for kryptonyte to behave in X or Y way.

le rules or formula is a pro, not a con.

It doesn't need to be overly detailed, it just needs to be consistent with the setting.  If kryptonite is said to have a particular qualities, then they shouldn't later be told they have a completely different ones.  

 

For example:green kryptonite is supposed to weaken Superman.  But if being exposed to green kryptonite seemed to do nothing, I'd want an explanation.

 

 

And good fantasy sometimes doesn't have rules at all - the Song of Ice and Fire series gives us nothing on how the rules of magic work. And we have insane stuff like having sex with a witch let's her create murderous shadow baby regicide machines. In the right hands - a good writer - the fact that magic has no predictable rules is a pro, not a con

No, magic does have rules.  The pro to it is that its rules are not bound by our rules.  But they have to have a form of internal logic behind it, or the story loses all cohesion because literally anything can happen at any moment.


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#665
azarhal

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No, you can't. You can only tell TIM to **** off after the Sucide Mission. Until then you will whine but you will still do what he wants. Sole Survivor wouldn't work with TIM no matter what.

 

No you can tell him right in your first meeting with him that you won't work with him, he just point out that you are an ******* for not helping saving humans colonies and Shepard goes "all right, I'll do it but not for you". In fact, you can even tell that you won't work for Cerberus to Jacob the first time he tells you who he works for and again it's basically "if you want to stay here and die mate".



#666
Ahriman

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 In fact, you can even tell that you won't work for Cerberus to Jacob the first time he tells you who he works for and again it's basically "if you want to stay here and die mate".

I like how they say that Shepard is doomed if they fly away without him and then show Shepard's face with dozen of shuttles in background. Top-notch level design.


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#667
Shechinah

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I like how they say that Shepard is doomed if they fly away without him and then show Shepard's face with dozen of shuttles in background. Top-notch level design.

 

It dosen't seem like it should be a case of Shepard not knowing how to pilot a shuttle in the absence of an auto-pilot either. It wouldn't be odd if shuttle piloting was including in the N training. That and even Vega knew how to fly a shuttle.



#668
BloodyMares

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No you can tell him right in your first meeting with him that you won't work with him, he just point out that you are an ******* for not helping saving humans colonies and Shepard goes "all right, I'll do it but not for you". In fact, you can even tell that you won't work for Cerberus to Jacob the first time he tells you who he works for and again it's basically "if you want to stay here and die mate".

Telling that you won't work for Cerberus and then working for Cerberus is called hypocrisy. I mean, I would understand that you would work with them as the last resort. First you go to the Alliance and they don't believe you, then you go to the Council and they don't believe you and only THEN you return to Cerberus admitting that nobody else wants to help. But it's not the case in ME2. Shepard doesn't say "Thanks TIM for the heads-up, but I'll do this my own way. So long." Shepard agrees to work for Cerberus without even thinking about alternatives and asking whether or not the Alliance knows about the Collectors. 


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#669
fchopin

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Telling that you won't work for Cerberus and then working for Cerberus is called hypocrisy. 

I would not work for them for any reason but we are forced to work for them in the game so there is no choice.

Another reason ME2 is rubbish.


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#670
Akrabra

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http://www.eurogamer...e-of-me3-ending

 

Found a new interview, not sure how old it is, seems recent. 


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#671
Beerfish

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All I know is that when they were building these ark ships they better have been using Cubits as the standard unit of measure.



#672
Element Zero

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http://www.eurogamer...e-of-me3-ending
 
Found a new interview, not sure how old it is, seems recent.


It's dated 6/20/16.

This is another good interview. Within they confirm a few more details we'd already guessed, such as "intersperses coalition"; and "some species work happily together, others less happily". They also addressed some good questions in a direct manner. I'm glad people are at least asking these questions, and not letting he fans wonder in silence, so to speak.

#673
Ahriman

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http://www.eurogamer...e-of-me3-ending

 

Found a new interview, not sure how old it is, seems recent. 

Nothing new, but I like

 

"There's a coalition [of Milky Way races]," he added.

such phrasing more instead of "mah humanity".


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#674
Fogg

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NEWS!

 

http://www.eurogamer...e-of-me3-ending



#675
Element Zero

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NEWS!
 
http://www.eurogamer...e-of-me3-ending


See directly above. You were Ninja'd by Akrabra. ;)
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