80 réponses à ce sujet

[Ranadiel Marius]

We have no real indication that the Veil coming down will make people mages.

Even with the Breach - there would be an increase in mage births if that's the case (it would be our first indicator if that's how things would happen if the Veil collapsed).

On a world level - I hope not. Adding more magic to the glut will chase me away for good.

I don't see how removing the Veil wouldn't make everyone a mage. Every person capable of dreaming is capable of shaping the Fade (as that is essentially what dreaming is). The Veil just makes it harder to shape the unchanging world. So only those with strong ability are capable of puncturing the Veil to perform the feat.

Without the Veil, the unchanging world should become significantly more like the Fade allowing everyone some ability to shape the world. Of course current mages would end up with a power boost while non-mages would become lower tier mages. Down side could be madness as evidenced by the effects of a thin Veil at Kirkwall.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Perhaps the devs want to move away from classes and allow players to customize their characters more, like in Skyrim. Honestly, I doubt it though.

If the Veil comes down, then everyone will probably get a special ability that is tied to their class, maybe an assortment to choose from initially, but mages will still be the only ones able to cast spells, though maybe the types of spells will be expanded. This means the Veil would have to come down fairly early on, like after the first act, or right around the time the player would choose a specialization. I am curious as hell to see what happens. BioWare better not wimp out.

[nightscrawl]

^ Well sure, that's the gamey aspect of it. But what does it mean for the story? What is the impact on the world as a result of the Veil coming down? Will those millions of people be changed in a fundamental way, that is, into mages?

[straykat]

Perhaps the devs want to move away from classes and allow players to customize their characters more, like in Skyrim. Honestly, I doubt it though.

If the Veil comes down, then everyone will probably get a special ability that is tied to their class, maybe an assortment to choose from initially, but mages will still be the only ones able to cast spells, though maybe the types of spells will be expanded. This means the Veil would have to come down fairly early on, like after the first act, or right around the time the player would choose a specialization. I am curious as hell to see what happens. BioWare better not wimp out.

 

That was bad even for Skyrim. imo. Along with the accompanying quests for archetypes.. I mean, you can become Harbinger with little time. Brynholf immediately wants you in the Thieves Guild and the College is easy and quick, like the warriors. And the thing is, they had more requirements and content planned... they just didn't have time (I wonder if that new remaster will fix this).

 

The other TES games didn't truly have classes either though, of course.. you could bypass it easily.. but at least they were trying to pay some tribute to the idea. Along with all the star signs and racial bonuses and such.

 

As for Dragon Age, it's unfortunate because I like playing Rogues... who are usually down to earth and simply "clever" to me. I compare them to like Batman in the Justice League. He just gets by being a badass and outsmarting people. This makes his interaction with Superman or Green Lantern funny. Also the same goes for Joker or Luthor. Often, we already see a lot of warrior hybrids (spirit, templar, reavers, etc), so that's bad enough. There's already a lack of reverence for martial skill in this series.. and rogue is my last bet.

 

Not to mention it just strips the charm away from regular people in the world. Their normalcy and flaws are sometimes what makes them funny or interesting.

[Medhia_Nox]

Not to mention it just strips the charm away from regular people in the world. Their normalcy and flaws are sometimes what makes them funny or interesting.

 

More magic will kill this world for me... DA:I had way too much of it already. 

[Aulis Vaara]

More magic will kill this world for me... DA:I had way too much of it already.

Consider it dead then, because the amount of magic is not going to diminish.

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As for the topic, it just means that everything will have a magical component to it. Warriors will still be warriors, but their prowess will both come from their physical abilities as from their willpower. Justice came from the Fade itself, but still he was a warrior. Similarly we have the story of the two champions of the Evanuris duking it out to settle a dispute. That didn't sound like magic was involved. And similarly, despite his magical abilities, Cole was still a rogue.

[Dancing_Dolphin]

^ Well sure, that's the gamey aspect of it. But what does it mean for the story? What is the impact on the world as a result of the Veil coming down? Will those millions of people be changed in a fundamental way, that is, into mages?

I can only speculate on the gamey aspect. How such a huge change would impact the story is too big a question for my tiny brain.

[Nimlowyn]

If the Veil comes down, I think it will likely be at the end if the series. I don't see the player classes changing too drastically, either.

[Medhia_Nox]

Consider it dead then, because the amount of magic is not going to diminish.

-----

As for the topic, it just means that everything will have a magical component to it. Warriors will still be warriors, but their prowess will both come from their physical abilities as from their willpower. Justice came from the Fade itself, but still he was a warrior. Similarly we have the story of the two champions of the Evanuris duking it out to settle a dispute. That didn't sound like magic was involved. And similarly, despite his magical abilities, Cole was still a rogue.

 

Forgive me if I don't take your testimony as gospel.

 

I'll wait to see what they do with this Veil nonsense before deciding whether to discard this IP.

[Big I]

All elves had magic in their ancient empire. Solas wants to restore that empire. He even tells you in Trespasser that when he first woke up he saw non-mages as no different from Tranquil. So yes, Solas wants to make a world where there are only mages. Whether he succeeds or not is unknown.

 

They never make it clear whether all non-elves had magic before the Veil. It would certainly be amusing to see the qunari reaction to all of them becoming saarebases.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 It would certainly be amusing to see the qunari reaction to all of them becoming saarebases.

That might be why Solas is convinced that the world that currently exists will be destroyed if his plan succeeds.

[Dai Grepher]

I think Solas believes that most people in Thedas will have their minds blown to the point where they won't be able to function. Like Solas is saying, "This head trip will be too much for your people to handle, Inquisitor".

Indeed he may be right about most people in Thedas. The people in the Black Marsh didn't even know they were in the Fade. Wynne didn't even know it at first. Neither did Alistair, nor Leliana. Though Sten knew it, as did Morrigan.

Only those with advanced minds or heightened perceptions will be able to know what's going on or how to accomplish anything in a veilless world, and even these people will still have to combat demons who will try to deceive them and use them. No civilization can function this way, obviously. Solas believes that the ancient elvhen will be the only ones capable of comprehending the world that was. New elves? No. They're too much like the other mortals, in Solas' estimation.

Of course, BioWare won't have the whole Veil drop. There will only be certain parts of the world where the Veil will drop. Then the players will venture into those areas to save people trapped there or defeat certain enemies such as the various evanuris or high level demons. Not only will the real world endure, but those Solas once saw as non-people will demonstrate the ability to "fly" as Flemeth once said.

But no, I don't think it means everyone will become mages.

[Forsythia77]

My personal thought on this is that removing the veil won't bring about the desired results that Solas wants.  Just because creating it caused some people to have magic and some to not, doesn't mean that ripping it down will restore the balance as it once was before.  It also doesn't mean that Elves will automatically be back in power.  I do not feel that he has thought through what he is going to do.  Ripping down the veil might make everyone go insane.  It might  just cause everyone to turn into an abomination.  It might do nothing at all. He cannot know.  But the assumption that removing the veil will fix things is shortsighted.  And for a man who has had 1000 years to think about it, he sure did a pretty lame job of actually doing that..

[nightscrawl]

That was bad even for Skyrim. imo. Along with the accompanying quests for archetypes.. I mean, you can become Harbinger with little time. Brynholf immediately wants you in the Thieves Guild and the College is easy and quick, like the warriors. And the thing is, they had more requirements and content planned... they just didn't have time (I wonder if that new remaster will fix this).

Sorry for this digression, but as far as I know, the remaster is only a visual facelift, as well as a boost to the underlying architecture for 64-bit. I don't think it's likely that they did any bug fixing or content adding at all.
 
 

I can only speculate on the gamey aspect. How such a huge change would impact the story is too big a question for my tiny brain.

 
I didn't mean to imply that, sorry if you thought I did... =/

[nightscrawl]

My personal thought on this is that removing the veil won't bring about the desired results that Solas wants.  Just because creating it caused some people to have magic and some to not, doesn't mean that ripping it down will restore the balance as it once was before.  It also doesn't mean that Elves will automatically be back in power.  I do not feel that he has thought through what he is going to do.  Ripping down the veil might make everyone go insane.  It might  just cause everyone to turn into an abomination.  It might do nothing at all. He cannot know.  But the assumption that removing the veil will fix things is shortsighted.  And for a man who has had 1000 years to think about it, he sure did a pretty lame job of actually doing that..

Completely agree with everything. In fact, I think this would be the most interesting outcome: for him to succeed in lowering the Veil, but have the end result be a complete failure for his goal.

[thats1evildude]

I want to stress again that Solas wishes to restore the elven civilization. The elven civilization at its height did not have humans or qunari in it. Hint, hint.

 

(There were dwarves, but they were confined to the underground and irrelevant.)

[Xerrai]

Completely agree with everything. In fact, I think this would be the most interesting outcome: for him to succeed in lowering the Veil, but have the end result be a complete failure for his goal.

Honestly, I think he knows something like that will happen. Putting up the veil was catastrophic, but lowering it...I think he has a rough idea of what it will cause ("world burning in raw chaos"). But like the veil's placement all those years ago, the effects will be devastating but not to the point of extinction.

The only difference this time around is that he will likely make plans to make sure they (his people) are still going to be standing when the ash settles.

[nightscrawl]

^ But the whole point of my post, and also of Forsythia77's, is to say that there may be some unforeseen result from lowering the Veil that he can't plan for.

[thats1evildude]

^ But the whole point of my post, and also of Forsythia77's, is to say that there may be some unforeseen result from lowering the Veil that he can't plan for.

Most likely. The Darkspawn didn't exist in his time, for one thing. Although their magic comes from the Blight, they still originated in the Fade, so the lowering of the Veil could feasibly empower them.

[nightscrawl]

^ OH so you're saying that we'll get the sixth and seventh Blights in the next game, along with a huge Qunari invasion and all of the Solas mess? Damn, the game is going to take 300 hours to complete. O_O

[Dancing_Dolphin]

 I didn't mean to imply that, sorry if you thought I did... =/

No, no, no. Goodness, I assure you I took no offense. Please don't think I did. I was being self deprecating. I should have included a smiley at the end. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[dawnstone]

Most likely. The Darkspawn didn't exist in his time, for one thing. Although their magic comes from the Blight, they still originated in the Fade, so the lowering of the Veil could feasibly empower them.

The Blight/Taint might have been locked in the Fade though to keep it from spreading. We know that spirits don't get the taint or become Blighted, so could more Fade being in the world, suppress Blights or weaken them?

[Dancing_Dolphin]

Most likely. The Darkspawn didn't exist in his time, for one thing. Although their magic comes from the Blight, they still originated in the Fade, so the lowering of the Veil could feasibly empower them.

Wait, I thought there were lore entries that suggested the Darkspawn may have existed before the Blights?

[thats1evildude]

I've heard other people say that, but I've never seen any actual evidence to back it up.

There's some indication that the Blight corruption may have always existed - the Primeval Thaig was impossibly old - but the first canonical darkspawn were the seven magisters.

[Dai Grepher]

The Primeval Thaig was likely corrupted after the Magisters returned from the Black City.