75 réponses à ce sujet

[Malanek]

None of this matters, anyway.

First, odds are the Arks depart before all this dirty laundry gets aired. Secondly, it's pretty stupid to turn on your fellow colonists once you arrive in the great unknown. The Milky Way species will be much more alike, culturally, than not, when juxtaposed against Andromeda's inhabitants.

"We", meaning the MW species, have to stick together. The screening process for this mission would likely weed out undesirables like "racists".

While this is true, I don't think a lot of this is very realistic. It's natural once the colonists arrive in Andromeda that they take actions to ensure the survival of their own species. And that inevitably means there will be decisions which advance one species more than another. For example do you want to build infrastructure on a world suitable for Turians and Quarians or  Humans and Asari first. Suppose the Genophage has not been cured but you could cure it. If you do so the Krogan will soon outnumber everyone by a factor of thousands. Do you cure it?

 

I think it would make for a more interesting story if old racial tensions came through in the decisions you have to make. I do agree though that it is unlikely anyone, outside some Asari, would know about the Asari withholding Prothean technology. It could be interesting if one went rogue and threatened to release the information though.

[EpicNewb]

None of this matters, anyway.

First, odds are the Arks depart before all this dirty laundry gets aired. Secondly, it's pretty stupid to turn on your fellow colonists once you arrive in the great unknown. The Milky Way species will be much more alike, culturally, than not, when juxtaposed against Andromeda's inhabitants.

"We", meaning the MW species, have to stick together. The screening process for this mission would likely weed out undesirables like "racists".

Yes, room for KROGAN!

[BioWareM0d13]

He was a sleeper agent within the Human government who was betraying that government. What the Asari did was a high level decision to keep a secret and then form new laws to outlaw exactly what they were doing. It certainly wasn't every Asari, but it was a decision made by the leaders of their people.

Fair enough, but the consequences of the betrayals by humans were potentially far more severe. There was an entire human faction engaged in active attempts to sabotage the war effort, something that happened with no other species. The Asari tried by underhanded means to get ahead technologically prior to the war, but they werent allies of the Reapers, unlike Cerberus.

The Asari being resented by other species while humanity gets a pass for Cerberus and its own Councilor being a Quisling, would just feel like more humans are special.

[Xen]

"We", meaning the MW species, have to stick together. The screening process for this mission would likely weed out undesirables like "racists".

Why should the screening process weed out racists? The governments running the project are blatant, open and unabashed racial supremacists running an institutionally racist oligarchy as a galactic government. Their own info drones in their Capital staight up tell you that those Citadel members without a Council seat (who have no representation despite being subject to Council law) are "lesser species".

 

and that's before you even get into the deplorable treatment they give to non Citadel species like krogan, quarians and rachni, ranging from genocide and ethnic cleansing to slavery and forced medical experimentation.

 

Mere racial profiling should be right up their alley.

[Malanek]

Fair enough, but the consequences of the betrayals by humans were potentially far more severe. There was an entire human faction engaged in active attempts to sabotage the war effort, something that happened with no other species. The Asari tried by underhanded means to get ahead technologically prior to the war, but they werent allies of the Reapers, unlike Cerberus.

The Asari being resented by other species while humanity gets a pass for Cerberus and its own Councilor being a Quisling, would just feel like more humans are special.

I'm not disputing that at all, after all perception is what actually matters and it is likely no one will know about the Asari.

 

Every single species carries hundreds or more years of political actions and prejudices with them. It's why I think it would be silly for the writers to just flush away that history.

[Element Zero]

While this is true, I don't think a lot of this is very realistic. It's natural once the colonists arrive in Andromeda that they take actions to ensure the survival of their own species. And that inevitably means there will be decisions which advance one species more than another. For example do you want to build infrastructure on a world suitable for Turians and Quarians or  Humans and Asari first. Suppose the Genophage has not been cured but you could cure it. If you do so the Krogan will soon outnumber everyone by a factor of thousands. Do you cure it?
 
I think it would make for a more interesting story if old racial tensions came through in the decisions you have to make. I do agree though that it is unlikely anyone, outside some Asari, would know about the Asari withholding Prothean technology. It could be interesting if one went rogue and threatened to release the information though.

Sure. You're talking about realistic tension. This is the type of stuff that drives stories forward. The OP, and much of this thread, was talking about dragging old issues from the original trilogy into this new series.

I didn't mean to suggest that it would be all sunshine and bunnies when we get to Andromeda. I just think our perspective on community will expand once more. When the existence of intelligent alien life was confirmed in 2149, national squabbles suddenly seemed less important. The Russians, Americans, and Chinese were suddenly brothers because we are humans. I think a similar bond will form of necessity among the MW colonists, since we have a common, shared culture, and we are collectively the "aliens", now. We will pull together, when need be. The Krogan and Quarian are my brothers, now, and I'll have their back against the threats of Andromeda, reason allowing.

[Element Zero]

Why should the screening process weed out racists? The governments running the project are blatant, open and unabashed racial supremacists running an institutionally racist oligarchy as a galactic government. Their own info drones in their Capital staight up tell you that those Citadel members without a Council seat (who have no representation despite being subject to Council law) are "lesser species".
 
and that's before you even get into the deplorable treatment they give to non Citadel species like krogan, quarians and rachni, ranging from genocide and ethnic cleansing to slavery and forced medical experimentation.
 
Mere racial profiling should be right up their alley.

When you build a big intergalactic colonization mission, you try to build a group that can get along. Yes, you want your individual species' needs looked after, but you don't need to send racists to accomplish this. I'm sure some would slip through, regardless.

The screening process for something like this is pretty interesting to contemplate. You'd need a wide variety of specialists, and as many breeders as possible.

[Jedi Comedian]

Sexy traitors.

[ZipZap2000]

Humans committed the biggest acts of betrayal in the series actually.

ME3 Cerberus, Udina, the Citadel coup, ect.

This.




Beyond that I'd like to see that there is no established authority. You are out in the lawless wilds.

[Tactical striga]

Udina was the senior human politician, and both the Citadel coup and Kai Leng's crucible sabotaging shenanigans nearly hand victory to the Reapers and cause the mass extinction of every space faring species. There's not a comparable act if betrayal in the entire series.

The Asari not sharing technology isn't even truly a betrayal. That's just hyperbole. Illegal according to the lore, and an example of selfish realpolitik, but it's not betrayal.

Udina was trash, and always was trash ever since the beginning of the series, kai leng was cerb, which we all know at me3 is basically an army for the reapers, cant blame the alliance for that

[The Dystopian Hound]

Where did I say that?

The point is that it wouldn't make sense for other species to sanction the Asari when they weren't the Fifth Column. Humanity was. If there is going to be finger pointing and blame games in the post war, humanity should be at the top of that list.

That said, I think it makes much more sense for everyone to just move on since all sides lose billions, and they benefit more by cooperating than devolving into a bunch of screeching, feces throwing apes. After WW2 (Godwin!) no one was demanding that Britain or France pay reparations for being unwilling to confront Hitler over Czechoslovakia or Austria, and not many outside Poland were keen to dwell on the fact that Stalin had been Hitler's ally in the invasion of Poland. After WW1 the Allies heaped all blame for the war on the defeated Central Powers, even though France and Russia had been just as much to blame as Germany or Austria-Hungary.

Tl;dr: It's more plausible that the Council factions would seek to cooperate rather than squabble over past missteps, particularly when there will probably be new threats on the horizon aimed at preventing the Milky Way species from getting a toehold on Andromeda.

You didn't.

[The Dystopian Hound]

This.




Beyond that I'd like to see that there is no established authority. You are out in the lawless wilds.

Well...We dont know that.

[ZipZap2000]

Well...We dont know that.

I'm the first Krogan Spectre I know everything.

[Stakrin]

Traitors? The **** is the point? You know what....**** all that.

In mass effect 3, at the end of the fall of thessia mission, Javik was incredibly disappointed himself.

Anyway; I think I started this thread down the wrong road. I don't think anyone should ever really be racist or anything like it; but I meant this from a narrative perspective. Would you prefer in this story that the colonists knew about this, or that they left before it was discovered? I feel most people understood me though.


I do think other problems could come from this. Salarians may feel under protected from people like Krogans, who the salarians may assume to be hostile (or many Krogan may actually act hostile towards salarians and turians)


I saw someone in this thread say something like "now that the quarians are gone..."
Is that confirmed? Quarians didn't come to Andromeda?

[Stakrin]

The Krogans want to rule the galaxy by brute force
The Salarians want to manipulate everyone to do their bidding
The Asari withheld a technological edge
The humans are backstabbing power hungry bullies
The Batarians are terrorists
The Quarians attempted genocide on their slave labour
The Geth sold their "soul" to the reapers
The Turians are control freaks that will kill any that don't obey

Choose your poison...

Everyone is an A-hole, but most didn't nearly cost us our galaxy-that one is on the Asari central government. And maybe somewhat the Salarians Dalatrass.

[The Dystopian Hound]

In mass effect 3, at the end of the fall of thessia mission, Javik was incredibly disappointed himself.

Anyway; I think I started this thread down the wrong road. I don't think anyone should ever really be racist or anything like it; but I meant this from a narrative perspective. Would you prefer in this story that the colonists knew about this, or that they left before it was discovered? I feel most people understood me though.


I do think other problems could come from this. Salarians may feel under protected from people like Krogans, who the salarians may assume to be hostile (or many Krogan may actually act hostile towards salarians and turians)


I saw someone in this thread say something like "now that the quarians are gone..."
Is that confirmed? Quarians didn't come to Andromeda?

I don't see it happening though. Asari hate.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Lol, the human in Andromeda don't know. The new Krogan probably doesn't have the genophage cure either. We're back at square one.

[rocklikeafool]

@OP: Sometimes, I too forget to think before I say stupid things...

 

 

Everyone is an A-hole, but most didn't nearly cost us our galaxy-that one is on the Asari central government. And maybe somewhat the Salarians Dalatrass.

Hey, dude...it's like we didn't even play the same game...

[Stakrin]

@OP: Sometimes, I too forget to think before I say stupid things...


Hey, dude...it's like we didn't even play the same game...

Don't really think what I said was stupid, not sure why I should.


Really? Perspective brought in to the game probably changes how we feel about certain events or what sticks with us.

[EpicNewb]

Everyone is an A-hole, but most didn't nearly cost us our galaxy-that one is on the Asari central government. And maybe somewhat the Salarians Dalatrass.

I agree.

 

The Asari government was the most useless.

 

Even if we don't help the Salarians they were key in raising Krogan War assets.  This puts them in second place.

 

I'd still be happy if we don't have any close Asari and Salarian in the game.

[Vilio1]

Only a handful people know about it, and I think none of them should be in the Andromeda galaxy. And as others have already mentioned, the other major races are in no position to throw stones.

[Dani86]

The Crucible plans were on Mars. One could assume that the whole 'the reapers came and destroyed everyone' info was there as well to show what the Mega-weapon was for. But no one knew about it because humanity kept  everyone away from Mars and hoarded that tech/info for themselves until Hackett, in an act of desperation, gets Liara, an asari and prothean expert, in to have a look. How is that any better than what the asari did? I think one of the major themes of the whole series is that every race was selfish (and looking out for number one) as different groups tend to be but only by acting together (and getting over their natural distrust and selfishness) could they defeat the greatest enemy the galaxy had ever seen. It would be kind of silly to bring that distrust and selfishness to a new galaxy when they have only each other to rely upon and might face an even greater enemy. 

[EpicNewb]

The Crucible plans were on Mars. One could assume that the whole 'the reapers came and destroyed everyone' info was there as well to show what the Mega-weapon was for. But no one knew about it because humanity kept  everyone away from Mars and hoarded that tech/info for themselves until Hackett, in an act of desperation, gets Liara, an asari and prothean expert, in to have a look. How is that any better than what the asari did? I think one of the major themes of the whole series is that every race was selfish (and looking out for number one) as different groups tend to be but only by acting together (and getting over their natural distrust and selfishness) could they defeat the greatest enemy the galaxy had ever seen. It would be kind of silly to bring that distrust and selfishness to a new galaxy when they have only each other to rely upon and might face an even greater enemy. 

Humans were superior to Asari in The Reaper War.

 

Despite being seen as the galaxy's diplomatic powerhouses, it was Human leadership and not Asari that began uniting the races together against the Reapers.

 

Asari delayed their aid.

 

Turians pitched an alliance idea immediately.  Krogans were 2nd to come aboard.

[The Dystopian Hound]

Everyone is an A-hole, but most didn't nearly cost us our galaxy-that one is on the Asari central government. And maybe somewhat the Salarians Dalatrass.

Salarian Dalatrass a *****.

[BioWareM0d13]

Humans were superior to Asari in The Reaper War.
 
Despite being seen as the galaxy's diplomatic powerhouses, it was Human leadership and not Asari that began uniting the races together against the Reapers.
 
Asari delayed their aid.
 
Turians pitched an alliance idea immediately.  Krogans were 2nd to come aboard.

Tactically the Asari actually did better than the Alliance, and managed to more fiercely resist invasion than every other faction that wasn't the Turians. They won space battles against the Reapers before Thessia fell, while the Alliance went from one disastrous defeat to the next until Priority: Earth the sequel. If not for the Crucible plans bring found on Mars, the Alliance's record in the war would be awful.