552 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

http://www.polygon.c...preview-e3-2016

 

As someone who is 2 years from 30, please don't make me feel creepy hitting on 20-year-old teammates. Please.

 

Also I don't empathize with children.

 

  Feeling concern   

 

Please tell me you're not calling yourself old at 28.

 

 

what if Bioware is dramatically changing its dynamic to people who were born after 1994?

I'd literally feel orphaned if Bioware did this.

 

Also, if you use "literally" in this context, you are literally still a young person.

[jtav]

I'm thirty-two, and I don't really have an issue per se. Ryder is not me, and I couldn't effectivelt self-indert even if they were my age. Besides, I have a thing for unlikely heroes. Just please, let us be "good kids." Some of us were.

[Patricia08]

Please tell me you're not calling yourself old at 28.

 

Yeah vbibbi is right 28 is still very young  . 

[Han Shot First]

While this conversation has been calm and interesting, both pluses around here, I'm still failing to see from where the original concern arises. None of the info suggests an exceptionally youthful protagonist. No mention at all is made of the crew, so applying this assumption to the crew is totally baseless. The articles linked contained nothing, really, to fuel all this "age crisis" in this thread, so I'm assuming it's combination of the info in the articles and the youthful face of the protagonist (and maybe the Asari character, as well).
Let's use Commander Shepard as an example to reason this out. I like the "War Hero" background a lot, and use it more times than not, so I'll use it in the following points. The Skyllian Blitz happened in 2176. Shepard was 22 years old in 2176. That is easily in the wheelhouse of the MEA PC's age. The events of the Blitz earned Shepard the Star of Terra, and served as the defining moment in Shepard's career until the Battle of the Citadel. The Skyllian Blitz drew the eyes of the Council and their Spectres to Shepard, and made the rest of the story possible. Again, Shepard was 22 yo.
As to the protagonist's age, she looks 22 yo to me, or right in that range. (If the Asari is bugging/confusing people, I am pretty certain she was a demo of animation techniques. She won't look the same the next time we see her.) Sheploo looked way, way too old, to be honest. He's supposed to be 29 in ME? With all those signs of age on his face? He looked to be in his forties. It's worth reminding everyone that this is a world in which humans live to be 150 yo. There's no reason Shep's face should be so aged at 29.
The 22 yo Shepard already possessed the greatness that would one day allow him/her to become the hero who would lead the Galaxy to victory against the Reapers. Our MEA protagonist has that greatness, too. The story will simply allow us to play out our "Skyllian Blitz", rather than it being a part of our backstory.
I expect the squadmates to be as badass as ever. I've never heard of a "green" Krogan. Their society doesn't produce unsure weaklings, and we saw him and the female squaddie fighting alongside an N7. Our crew won't be a bunch of snot-nosed novices, nor will our protagonist be one. There is nothing about which to worry.
Edit: iPad typos and missing words. Ugh.

The issue I'd have with something similar to playing out Shepard's origin story, is that at 22 years old Shepard would be at most a Lieutenant. S/he'd be too inexperienced still to be plausibly placed in a major command position, such as serving as the Commanding Officer for a warship. Being a Platoon Commander or the Executive Officer for an infantry company would be more likely.

A 22 year old LCDR Ryder, CO of the SSV Tempest, would be more in line with the Star Trek reboot than the real world, where you can't even get promoted into certain ranks without serving a prerequisite amount of time in the rank preceding it, which can be years. It would also be a bit mad to put someone with no prior command experience, such as a lieutenant fresh from Officer Candidate school, in charge of a warship.

I'd much prefer Ryder be at a similar age as Shepard with a similar length of time in the Alliance. I wouldn't be opposed to something like a playable origin story, but only if the game is split into chapters like DA2 and we get a time jump between Lt. Ryder, green platoon commander, and LCDR Ryder, CO of the Tempest.

[Nattfare]

As i said i'm in my early twenties but uh this woman can lead you all to victory    . 

 

Onwards, to victory!

 

[maia0407]

20-somethings were quite prominent throughout the world's history as commanders, leaders, etc (I hesitate to bring up Alexander the Great, since it is almost a trivial example). The delayed maturity is a product of the late 20th century, and there is no reason for this trend not to be reversed later in the 21st and 22nd centuries. In fact, I actually hope they would be, as the Western distrust and treatment of teens is not something I am comfortable with as an old lady I am.
 
Now, of course, the history has plenty of examples of the folks in their prime stepping up to the plate to, and even selected for those qualities (see leonidas' Spartans all of which were hand-picked to be old enough to have a son to take over)...
 
In the end, again, I would not find the age in itself a cause of disbelief, as long as the characters act competently, 22 is as good as 32 or 42 for me.
 
Plus, due to the nature of spatial exploration, I'd think that younger mission makes more sense due to adaptability and not having roots back at home, etc

If anything, I think the trend for a longer maturation process will continue to increase in a technologically advanced future like Mass Effect. Technology allowed for decreased pressure for children to begin to produce resources to survive as was common in early societies. Children didn't have to grow up so fast to survive. Technology also called for a more educated population which resulted in children relying on parents longer as they got more education. I'd expect that youths in a society as technologically advanced as the ME universe would require an even longer educational and maturation period.

[Deebo305]

http://www.polygon.c...preview-e3-2016

As someone who is 2 years from 30, please don't make me feel creepy hitting on 20-year-old teammates. Please.

Also I don't empathize with children.

Feeling concern

[Patricia08]

Onwards, to victory!

 

 

I only hope those little blocky guys do not fall to their deaths  . 

 

Because if they do then there will be no victory and i would be a bad leader  . 

[maia0407]

To be honest, I'd be clappy happy if we got a Cassandra like protagonist. She's experienced and old enough to be believable as a leader. Loved her character! Here's to futile hopes that BW will hear my pleas and age the protagonist just a bit!

[Wulfram]

I don't really think its about a longer maturation process, at least not mostly. Its about having a meritocratic process, which doesn't realistically allow someone to rise so quickly so fast. Alexander got to command not because he'd proven his worthiness, but because he was the son of King. Or less extreme, the future Duke of Wellington was a Colonel by his mid-20s because his family had the money to buy his way up the ranks.

Now in sci-fi you could have a society where advancement was again based on money and or connections, and have our character's rank be the result of that. Or we could have the game depict a society that used, say, a mix genetic and aptitude tests to mark those destined for greatness at an early age, and thus allowed rapid promotion for those judged superior. But I don't think either of those fit the Alliance as it has been shown so far.

[Gileadan]

The issue I'd have with something similar to playing out Shepard's origin story, is that at 22 years old Shepard would be at most a Lieutenant. S/he'd be too inexperienced still to be plausibly placed in a major command position, such as serving as the Commanding Officer for a warship. Being a Platoon Commander or the Executive Officer for an infantry company would be more likely.

A 22 year old LCDR Ryder, CO of the SSV Tempest, would be more in line with the Star Trek reboot than the real world, where you can't even get promoted into certain ranks without serving a prerequisite amount of time in the rank preceding it, which can be years. It would also be a bit mad to put someone with no prior command experience, such as a lieutenant fresh from Officer Candidate school, in charge of a warship.

I'd much prefer Ryder be at a similar age as Shepard with a similar length of time in the Alliance. I wouldn't be opposed to something like a playable origin story, but only if the game is split into chapters like DA2 and we get a time jump between Lt. Ryder, green platoon commander, and LCDR Ryder, CO of the Tempest.

Yeah, command of a warship is a bit much at that age.

Then again, the world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career and held the position of Gruppenkommandeur (wing commander?), i.e. was in charge of three to four squadrons, made up of nine to twelve aircraft each. Wonder what the Tempest's crew count is...

[Patricia08]

To be honest, I'd be clappy happy if we got a Cassandra like protagonist. She's experienced and old enough to be believable as a leader. Loved her character! Here's to futile hopes that BW will hear my pleas and age the protagonist just a bit!

 

I only give you a like because you like Casandra so much but the like is not for the other part of your post .  

[Element Zero]

The issue I'd have with something similar to playing out Shepard's origin story, is that at 22 years old Shepard would be at most a Lieutenant. S/he'd be too inexperienced still to be plausibly placed in a major command position, such as serving as the Commanding Officer for a warship. Being a Platoon Commander or the Executive Officer for an infantry company would be more likely.
A 22 year old LCDR Ryder, CO of the SSV Tempest, would be more in line with the Star Trek reboot than the real world, where you can't even get promoted into certain ranks without serving a prerequisite amount of time in the rank preceding it, which can be years. It would also be a bit mad to put someone with no prior command experience, such as a lieutenant fresh from Officer Candidate school, in charge of a warship.
I'd much prefer Ryder be at a similar age as Shepard with a similar length of time in the Alliance. I wouldn't be opposed to something like a playable origin story, but only if the game is split into chapters like DA2 and we get a time jump between Lt. Ryder, green platoon commander, and LCDR Ryder, CO of the Tempest.

Agreed, all around. I honestly don't think the protagonist will be that young. I think people are jumping to conclusions based upon a brief glance at a face that might've been generated in the Character Creator, for all we know, and can definitely be replaced by one. I wanted to show that IF the protagonist is this young, a story is still possible. I still strongly suspect (and hope) that she will be in her mid-20s, which is far less mind-numbingly stupid (in terms of command), even if it still isn't "believable".

I suspect we will once more inherit our command. Maybe we start out as the N7's XO? Maybe we do something thoroughly impressive, that saves a lot of lives, on whatever mission it is that removes the N7 from the picture? This heroic action could be the catalyst for our otherwise questionably rapid promotion. Who knows? I'm just throwing out ideas.

That face looked too young to command a warship, but not too young to serve as our protagonist. I do wish BioWare would bring on a military consultant for their military franchise. It seems like common sense. Other lesser quality IPs do it. It could prevent a lot of the small, jarring things that temporarily snap me out of the world and remind me I'm playing a game. I can imagine it's worse for those of you who actually served and recognize things even better than I. In the end, I suspect things will work out just fine. I'm hopeful that they will not give command of Tempest to a "newly adult" 22yo. (No offense, younglings.) If they do, I'll just have to sigh and deal with it, I guess.

[ZipZap2000]

http://www.polygon.c...preview-e3-2016

As someone who is 2 years from 30, please don't make me feel creepy hitting on 20-year-old teammates. Please.

Also I don't empathize with children.

Feeling concern

I was thinking about this movie yesterday.

[Han Shot First]

20-somethings were quite prominent throughout the world's history as commanders, leaders, etc (I hesitate to bring up Alexander the Great, since it is almost a trivial example). The delayed maturity is a product of the late 20th century, and there is no reason for this trend not to be reversed later in the 21st and 22nd centuries. In fact, I actually hope they would be, as the Western distrust and treatment of teens is not something I am comfortable with as an old lady I am.

Now, of course, the history has plenty of examples of the folks in their prime stepping up to the plate to, and even selected for those qualities (see leonidas' Spartans all of which were hand-picked to be old enough to have a son to take over)...

In the end, again, I would not find the age in itself a cause of disbelief, as long as the characters act competently, 22 is as good as 32 or 42 for me.

Plus, due to the nature of spatial exploration, I'd think that younger mission makes more sense due to adaptability and not having roots back at home, etc

While it is true that throughout much of history people who were very young could be placed in major command positions, this was usually because prior to the modern era, the social class you were born into mattered more than merit. Those 20 year old commanders were all royals and nobles. They were also trained from childhood to lead men in both peace and war, so the young Alexander or Julius Caesar wouldn't have been as green as a modern twentysomething, who didn't have a military education as part of their preparation for adulthood.

Even so it's worth noting that men like Alexander or Caesar were very much the exception. For every genius who excelled in their first major command without having risen through the ranks, there was an incompetent disaster of a leader in a similar position who ended up getting his army destroyed. Training alone is no guarantee of skill, and often less important than hands on experience. Some people are natural leaders, but they're very much the exception, and most learn and improve through experience dealing with greater responsibility in gradually increasing steps. A meritocracy allows you to weed out people who aren't suited for higher command before (hopefully) they cause too much trouble. A meritocracy also is better suited to deal with The Peter Principle.

The modern system of promotion through the ranks based on demonstrated competence at each rung on the ladder is far superior to how we used to do things, and much less of a crap shoot when it comes to the end product in high command.

The Alliance or Arkcon going back to how humanity used to do things, by giving inexperienced 20 year olds major command responsibilities, would be a major step backwards. If the universe were real and not a the invention of video game writers, it would also be a recipe for eventual disaster. The first time that organization runs into hostile aliens at a technological parity, who promote through a meritocracy, the humans are probably going to get trounced.

[Giantdeathrobot]

The issue I'd have with something similar to playing out Shepard's origin story, is that at 22 years old Shepard would be at most a Lieutenant. S/he'd be too inexperienced still to be plausibly placed in a major command position, such as serving as the Commanding Officer for a warship. Being a Platoon Commander or the Executive Officer for an infantry company would be more likely.

A 22 year old LCDR Ryder, CO of the SSV Tempest, would be more in line with the Star Trek reboot than the real world, where you can't even get promoted into certain ranks without serving a prerequisite amount of time in the rank preceding it, which can be years. It would also be a bit mad to put someone with no prior command experience, such as a lieutenant fresh from Officer Candidate school, in charge of a warship.

I'd much prefer Ryder be at a similar age as Shepard with a similar length of time in the Alliance. I wouldn't be opposed to something like a playable origin story, but only if the game is split into chapters like DA2 and we get a time jump between Lt. Ryder, green platoon commander, and LCDR Ryder, CO of the Tempest.

 

Let's not overlook the situation, however. The particular circumstances of the Arks may mean that they have limited personel able to fight and explore, and thus are pretty much saddled with giving the PC a command role. Indeed, I'd be surprised if we start the game as commander; ALA ME1, I think we will be a noob forced into captaining the ship due to unfortunate mishaps.

 

Something similar happened in revolutionary France. The lack of general to fight all their wars meant you could get promoted to the highest offices as early as 22 or 23 years old. Sometimes, it didn't work. But that one time, they ended up with Napoléon. When you are in a critical shortage of commanders, protocol doesn't matter that much.

[Onuris22]

I'm with Addictress on the age issue. Early to mid 20 somethings is way too young to lead a mission of this importance. The experience and maturity isn't there. I was really hoping that BW wouldn't follow the trend of putting noobs in positions of power, like with new Trek, but apparently they've done it. I just cannot take 20 somethings seriously in a leadership position. I hope they at least have a strong mentor.

 

Do we know for a fact that she's leading the mission, though? I think that's a huge leap of logic unless it's true (it could be, I haven't read all the info yet.) But I'm going to assume she doesn't....it doesn't fit the idea of starting out as a (relative) nobody.

 

So, wouldn't worry about an early 20 year old running a huge ass ship/mission like that. In the end it really ends up being the persons ability to execute, if they're good they're good regardless of age.

[Henry Augustus]

Despite the fact the codex states Shepard to be around 30, I always conveniently ignored that and

made many of my Shepards significantly older. I like a player character to have some age related

natural authority, especially if he holds a position of leadership. Of course, I couldn't have done that

if the games had specifically mentioned his age via dialog or otherwise (to my knowledge, they don't).

The trilogy never really treats Shepard as particularly young or old, so within reasonable bounds you

are free to choose his age as you see fit.

 

The same won't work if ME:A makes a point of Ryder and his companions being young. As people

have pointed out, though, a young main character makes more sense here.

 

About that Polygon article: it seems they just interpreted Walters to mean younger cast, while I don't

think that is what he really said. Ryder may be young, but there are almost certainly going to be older

teammates as well.

[Element Zero]

Let's not overlook the situation, however. The particular circumstances of the Arks may mean that they have limited personel able to fight and explore, and thus are pretty much saddled with giving the PC a command role. Indeed, I'd be surprised if we start the game as commander; ALA ME1, I think we will be a noob forced into captaining the ship due to unfortunate mishaps.

Something similar happened in revolutionary France. The lack of general to fight all their wars meant you could get promoted to the highest offices as early as 22 or 23 years old. Sometimes, it didn't work. But that one time, they ended up with Napoléon. When you are in a critical shortage of commanders, protocol doesn't matter that much.

I considered this. I hope they don't go this route. It's too predictable, and probably not realistic. The second that Tempest returned home to the Ark, there would likely be a more senior officer waiting to assume command.

The only way I see this working is as I mentioned above. The protag would have to save her crew and serve exemplarily for an extended period, likely in a situation in which it was impossible to quickly "return home". At that point, the power of plot would kick in and the character would eventually find her temporary command made permanent and official, whether this is "realistic" or not.

[Wulfram]

Do we know for a fact that she's leading the mission, though? I think that's a huge leap of logic unless it's true (it could be, I haven't read all the info yet.) But I'm going to assume she doesn't....it doesn't fit the idea of starting out as a (relative) nobody.

The old leak (which has been essentially confirmed by subsequent official information) suggests we're making the sort of decisions that only a high ranking leader would make. Picking our missions, establishing settlements and so forth.

Fundamentally, if we're not in charge then there doesn't seem to be much sense in all the "exploration" stuff. We'd just go where we were sent.

[ShadyKat]

http://www.polygon.c...preview-e3-2016
 
As someone who is 2 years from 30, please don't make me feel creepy hitting on 20-year-old teammates. Please.
 
Also I don't empathize with children.
 
  Feeling concern   

Are you serious?
Liara, Tali and Kelly were all barely in their 20's.
Ashley, Jack are bother mid - late 20's. Only romance option for guys in their 30's was Miranda, and I guess Samara if we count her. The cast was fairly young in the original series. Only Wrex, Zaeed, Mordin and Samara would be considered old.

[Addictress]

The old leak (which has been essentially confirmed by subsequent official information) suggests we're making the sort of decisions that only a high ranking leader would make. Picking our missions, establishing settlements and so forth.

Fundamentally, if we're not in charge then there doesn't seem to be much sense in all the "exploration" stuff. We'd just go where we were sent.

Eh, we could be going out in the field and "establishing camps" based on orders.

[JohnC2211]

It makes sense that if we were going to send a survival ark it'd be skewed towards the younger generation.  Fitter, healthier, more fertile, etc.  Plus from a roleplay perspective it will definitely feel like we are forging our characters that little bit more.  

[Addictress]

Are you serious?
Liara, Tali and Kelly were all barely in their 20's.
Ashley, Jack are bother mid - late 20's. Only romance option for guys in their 30's was Miranda, and I guess Samara if we count her. The cast was fairly young in the original series. Only Wrex, Zaeed, Mordin and Samara would be considered old.

Jacob and Sheploo seemed 28-29, Thane was 40+, Garrus was probably 30+

Clearly you're only thinking about the female characters.

[Addictress]

About that Polygon article: it seems they just interpreted Walters to mean younger cast, while I don't
think that is what he really said. Ryder may be young, but there are almost certainly going to be older
teammates as well.

So basically everyone in this thread assumes the journalist was wrong.