79 réponses à ce sujet

[Laughing_Man]

Family isn't interesting unless it's full of tragedy. That's where you and I depart in theory.

 

I disagree. There's a place for tragedy, and there's a place for happy moments. When one of these elements is over done, usually the story suffers for it.

[The Night Haunter]

Wait... you mean the sibling that dies in the prologue while running away from Lothering? I was talking about the one that survives.

That's what the conversation was about. No-one's said the survivor doesn't get character development, they are saying the dead one doesn't get any. The problem is they are introduced and then die before you have any possibility of knowing them, which is what Cyonan was saying in regards to DA2. He might also be saying Mama Hawke is underdeveloped, I'm not sure. But I have no overt opinion on that right now, its been too long since DA2.

[Addictress]

That's what the conversation was about. No-one's said the survivor doesn't get character development, they are saying the dead one doesn't get any. The problem is they are introduced and then die before you have any possibility of knowing them, which is what Cyonan was saying in regards to DA2. He might also be saying Mama Hawke is underdeveloped, I'm not sure. But I have no overt opinion on that right now, its been too long since DA2.

Oh okay.

 

Yeah I totally missed that. Well duh the first one that dies doesn't get any development. I guess it didn't really stand out or bother me that much since I thought the focus of that scene was not rly the sibling dying, but just the feels of running away in a blight-scorched land, and Aveline and her husband.

 

The camera shifted particularly to Aveline's husband. It built a sort of comraderie with Aveline which extended into Act 1 and beyond. So I felt like it wasn't about the sibling dying - it was about establishing a connection with Aveline within the circumstances.

[Cyonan]

I get this argument, I really do, because it applies to so many games and movies. I know what you're saying, but I just don't think that's what happened in DA2 at all. I find they were developed, and given sufficient screen time to voice their opinions. They were a full-fledged companion you could take out on quests, for crying out loud, replete with party banter, in addition to being there in the prologue, in addition, to having more side chat scenes at home (ones which duly referenced the specific things you both went through ON SCREEN, and also you could give them gifts, etc) - at least two or three, along with a special "retrieve estate documents" quests the other part companions didn't have.

 

So I don't know why people say they weren't developed or given sufficient screen time.

 

I wont deny they had some development, I just don't feel like it was enough. Giving them screen time doesn't automatically make them a developed character.

 

When most of what Carver talks about is being annoyed at being in Hawke's shadow then he feels like a 1 note and underdeveloped character. Yeah it's fine that's a thing for him, but it shouldn't be his entire thing.

[Medhia_Nox]

Family isn't interesting unless it's full of tragedy. That's where you and I depart in theory.

 

The Hawke family was perfect. If it was happy at all, DA2 would've been a dramatically worse game.

 

NO thanks... played this one IRL.

Got rid of those nutjobs... don't need more.

[Solace]

Red Wedding all.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

Red Wedding all.

That's what you get for betraying Filch , Ryder.

[Addictress]

I wont deny they had some development, I just don't feel like it was enough. Giving them screen time doesn't automatically make them a developed character.

When most of what Carver talks about is being annoyed at being in Hawke's shadow then he feels like a 1 note and underdeveloped character. Yeah it's fine that's a thing for him, but it shouldn't be his entire thing.

It should be his motivation. Every character needs a central motivation. The characters in DA2 had much more focused central motivations than in Inquisition which is why the characters in Inquisition were so damn weak. It's why Carver goes to the Templars, for instance.

And it's not his only thing. He talks to you about what to do about the estate, and your mom, and Gamlen, in addition to his party banter with each character and his flirtation with Merrill.

[Addictress]

And another thing - it does need to be on screen. Stuff that happens off screen adds 0 weight to characters. That's why we don't care about Fiona, Celene, or Briala.

[Gonder]

I'm not sure if they're going with the "pick your own backstory" concept like they did in the original trilogy; if they do, I believe they should make it an option to have no living family members. As an Earthborn and Colonist, Shepard had no family. As a Spacer, Shepard technically had a family. It would be cool if we could do the same in Andromeda.

 

If we can't do that, however, then I won't have any beef with Bioware for that. I have to save my hatred and rage for them neglecting my choices in Mass Effect 3. Time to go find a thread to vent about that in, fun times. 

[Onuris22]

My only real gripe is they shoveled a bit too much tragedy on top of Hawke for almost just the sake of making them purely story mechanics. I really never felt a connection to Hawke's mother, though Carver wasn't too bad since they did wait for a bit to give you the option of having him gone or not and how it happens. I played a mage so I never got to play with Bethany but she died so quickly I couldn't really find myself caring.

 

Could have just been me, but I just never grew attached to them.

[DarthLaxian]

I get this argument, I really do, because it applies to so many games and movies. I know what you're saying, but I just don't think that's what happened in DA2 at all. I find they were developed, and given sufficient screen time to voice their opinions. They were a full-fledged companion you could take out on quests, for crying out loud, replete with party banter, in addition to being there in the prologue, in addition, to having more side chat scenes at home (ones which duly referenced the specific things you both went through ON SCREEN, and also you could give them gifts, etc) - at least two or three, along with a special "retrieve estate documents" quests the other part companions didn't have.

 

So I don't know why people say they weren't developed or given sufficient screen time.

 

Problem with DA2 is: They didn't allow us to decide which sibling to save...so I got saddled with Carver (all the time as I only play mages!) and he's an ass IMHO (hell he becomes a templar...damned traitor!) because I tend to help my "kind" (other mages!) because I find the templars oppressive and don't agree with the chantry that mages need to locked up (found and trained, sure - but not locked up...freedom is a human right and being born different doesn't give others the right to lock you up (it's racist IMHO!))

 

Still, a hot sibling might be nice if they actually dared to venture into the taboo area of incest (at least as an option - I mean sorry, the player isn't an ass if he finds Bethany sexy!)...I mean I don't think it should be taboo as long as precautions (birth control) are used and as long as abortion would be used if a pregnancy were to happen despite that (I mean that's the only real gripe with incest IMHO - unless you are religious! - that children born from it are more likely to be deformed or have genetic defects (no second set of genes that often correct that))

 

But they can't (they had to do underwear sex because of stupid news media (because they didn't dare to tell them where to shove it - Bioware makes games for adults after all!)) probably do that

 

ps: ...ceterum censeo... ^^ (hope you get the reference if I say: I still don't like or want a "Ryder-Family" involved in the plot...sorry, but family drama isn't why I play these games!)

[Onuris22]

Problem with DA2 is: They didn't allow us to decide which sibling to save...so I got saddled with Carver (all the time as I only play mages!) and he's an ass IMHO (hell he becomes a templar...damned traitor!) because I tend to help my "kind" (other mages!) because I find the templars oppressive and don't agree with the chantry that mages need to locked up (found and trained, sure - but not locked up...freedom is a human right and being born different doesn't give others the right to lock you up (it's racist IMHO!))

 

Well....I mean there are other options with Carver but I won't spoil them unless you want me to in case you weren't aware. He doesn't have to become a Templar

 

Unless that's just your preferred version of the story, then yeah Carver's an ass! lol

[shodiswe]

I don't - I am just not into family stories (sorry: Family may play some role, but it shouldn't be part of the ****** main story...I like the Sheppard (Spacer! - I don't know how the other origins work, I've only ever used that one!) way: Family sends you e-mail, might show up a couple of times but most of the times is not present!)...those didn't work in Fallout (sorry Bethesda!), and I don't think they'll work here

@DarthLaxian

 

The spacer was the only one that seemed to have a familt that we know of, the Earthborn was an orphaned streetbrat from what I could tell, I guess the closest thing the earthborn one had was the redsand dealing racist street ganga that Shepard abandoned when he/she joined the Alliance military to get away from that life... They do make a reappearance I guess..

 

Colony, no idea... Don't think there were any surviviors from your family but there were other colonists I think. Strangely enough, the Spaceborn Shepard seems to have had the most "normal"/least traumatic upbringing or closest to a good upbringing according to conventional beliefs.

 

No matter what, you still pick your path forward.

 

We've already gone the DA2 path, whatever people think about that one, I think I've had enough of it. it was just a bunch of people who died no matter what. The mother being so easy for tat crazy murderer to pickup never made any sense, she seemed well aware of the dangers in the city and should have been more careful. It seemed out of character. It's also surprising that they never talked about those thigns going on and grotesque murders. Seriously, when she recieved those flowers that should have been a dead give away, it was the trademarked signature of that crazy Necromancer.

 

Btw, have you heard about this crazy murderer that sends "lilacks" or whatver it was to his future victims? Then he cuts off bodyparts and hads over the leftovers to demons..... Really crazy stuff happening in the city, lock the doors, it's not just the street gangs or scheming muderous nobles or crazy mages or crazy templars or crazzy crazies....

 

One of them getting mauled by an Ogre probably anoyed me less that a scripted plot kill that seemed a little to easy. If I heard or or investigated or whatever came across information about a mass murderer, I sure as hell would tell my family to watch out for such dangers. I wouldn't just sit there and say, what a lovely day for a walk, want another toast?

 

Maybe Ryder will be investigating systematic raids and slughters of nearby settlements, then visit the family next door and ask about the weather. When the family asks how the workday was, "Oh, nothing special, how are the crops doing?"

 

Then a little while later they will be killed aswell, totaly unaware there was a danger and never put up a fight or had an escape plan.

[Tatar Foras]

Just saying.  Please don't use the family as just cannon fodder for tragedy Bioware. 

 

Don't get your hopes up.

[The Dystopian Hound]

I want to know how this family thing is going to work. If I have a parents, brother, or sister If my character looks way different how are they going to explain that? Adoption? And what about my first name? My parent don't call me by my last name. Maybe a cool nickname? I boggles my mind. I'm not really a fan of this family stuff. I'd wish they'd leave it out of the game but whatever. Just as long as they do it right and it makes sense. I trust them. I don't want them to screw up the family thing ,if they do it, like they did the first endings.

[potentialfood]

For reference, these were the various faces of the Hawke family based on your character's appearance:

 

http://nsm05.casimag...56808614117.jpg

[The Dystopian Hound]

For reference, these were the various faces of the Hawke family based on your character's appearance:

http://nsm05.casimag...56808614117.jpg

If they do that I hope they expand upon it and have the people look better and not weird.

[potentialfood]

If they do that I hope they expand upon it and have the people look better and not wired.

Tech has come along way since 2011

[The Dystopian Hound]

Tech has come along way since 2011

We'll see.

[SmilesJA]

It should be his motivation. Every character needs a central motivation. The characters in DA2 had much more focused central motivations than in Inquisition which is why the characters in Inquisition were so damn weak. It's why Carver goes to the Templars, for instance.

And it's not his only thing. He talks to you about what to do about the estate, and your mom, and Gamlen, in addition to his party banter with each character and his flirtation with Merrill.

 

A lot of Carver's character development was to have him step out of his brother/sister's shadow and be his own man. Carver achieves this if he becomes a Grey Warden.

[Urizen]

The trick is to make us like the characters, then kill them. If you kill them too quickly and too soon, then I won't give a damn.

 

*cough* Fallout4/DA2 *cough*. With the former I never ever did give a damn about my spouse. And why should I, there is just 0 dialogue to build a bond with him/her. And, excuse me for saying it, the same is true for Shaun. Might be because I´m no father. As for the latter, one of the siblings is killed off way too fast. Atleast you can bond with the remaining one during Act 1.

[LisuPL]

Just saying.  Please don't use the family as just cannon fodder for tragedy Bioware. 

*cough cough* Starks... *cough cough*.

[Cribbian]

I don't mind a little tragedy but pls biower, no unintentionally comedic zombie-mom this time.

[Knight of Dane]

I thought it was a well-delivered sucker punch.

 

Well it wasn't, regardless of what you think. It was delivered before anyone had time to build a emotional attachement to the character. It was more of a sucker "pat," hardly felt.