127 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

That's pretty much the world. You think if America or Russia conquered the middle east there would be peace? No, because some other country will take that as a threat to their power and wage war to check the imperialist country.

 

Pretty sure Leliana has a vast army of spies working for her and the Friends of Red Jenny who appreciate her using the Chantry to help the disenfranchised. And we still don't know what happens to the templars in Leliana's ending. Do they still work for the Chantry, does the Chantry still control the Lyrium trade? If so, that also gives the Chantry some more leverage. Leliana and the Chantry are hardly toothless.

 

Someone always comes in to fill in the void of the power vaccuum. The Circles led by Viv or the College. And without Chantry interference, perhaps the royal monarchs of the region could actually exert their influence instead of being blackmailed or being a puppet of a foreign religous figure colluding with the Empress of Orlais. I say that's a win, for better or for worse.

 

Since when has Leliana not done anything. She's a bard and she can teach the Chantry to be bards. "We let nobles decide who to blame. We are just the enablers of the game." A bard must know history so she does not repeat it. She tells the tales but is never part of them. She watches but remains above what she sees. She inspires passions in others and rules her own. If Leliana colludes with the wronged party to reveal evidence of who was the wrong party, she'll have political leverage over the muggles who killed the mage, or enlist the mages to attack the murderers and make the mages look righteous because of it gaining good will no matter the outcome. I'd still call that influence.

 

I'm sure in time the free mages can learn protect themselves, the Dalish have and they are in diaspora. And if Cassandra is serious about doing the Maker's work, perhaps she would find an ally with the free mages.

 

If the Chantry changes hearts and minds, it has the ability to exert influence. Order will be restored, it is the natural state of the world to fill in the void of the power vacuum.

 

Why are you agreeing with or validating nearly every point I made and casting it as a disagreement?  You're not really contesting, well, anything you quoted.

 

Lelaina getting pulled into sides against the public is the point. Arguing how well she can do it doesn't reverse that parts of the public that wouldn't have bothered before are now in opposition to the Chantry.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dean the young, You sound like a Templar or Lord Seeker that hates mages.

 

The brutality of the Templars in the Circle is what cause the uprising. Any thing bad was the mage fault and the Seekers and Templars would deal harshly with any mage they thought was remotely guilty. Never mind the Templars murder,rape,beat and made mages tranquil for any or no reason and in the mean time The Chantry looked the other way and continued to preach fear and hatred toward the mages. 

 

As Divine Vivienne would rebuild the Circles, add  watch dog Templars and that would lead to another revolt.

 

 

As far as Elves, yup, the Chantry preaches hatred and racism toward the Elves. 

 

I might  be offended, if what you said and what I posted had anything in common.

 

What I posted related to the nature of non-hierarchical (ie, leaderless) social movements that arise when major social changes are pushed from the top bottom. A moral judgement was never implied or relevant to the question of whether Leliana's chantry risks a breakdown of authority even if she 'lacks opposition' or bloody marry's her political opponents.

[Dean_the_Young]

Doesn't change that a gilded cage is still a cage. Also, note that one of the arguments Templar supporters use to support the circle is also used by Dorian to justify slavery

 

Dorian also uses more arguments used by pro-Mage supporters. What's your point?

[Tidus]

Dean the young,Seems the Inquisition is much like the Grey Wardens that has no country nor do they give fealty to  king or queen yet,both groups saves the world..

 

The Circles was a brutal gilded  cage that failed and the blame of that failure is on the Chantry, Templars and Seekers..

[Sports72Xtrm]

Why are you agreeing with or validating nearly every point I made and casting it as a disagreement?  You're not really contesting, well, anything you quoted.

 

Lelaina getting pulled into sides against the public is the point. Arguing how well she can do it doesn't reverse that parts of the public that wouldn't have bothered before are now in opposition to the Chantry.

But yet the epilogue says the Chantry is kept united in Leliana's divine epilogue if you did her personal quest so the chantry remains united despite your assertions that there will be oppositions. The point is that the oppostions will not affect how the Chantry accomplishes its responsibilities, in fact I argue that Leliana's reforms makes them more effective at it.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=CGKHj0NzXPk

Let's examine what Mother Giselle says about the the main responsibilities of the of the Chantry and how it has been misused in the past:

- "Magic must serve men not rule over him". Leliana lets mages rule themselves and allows them the choice of forming their own Circle or go to the College and they must negotiate with their local government to find the perfect balance between restrictive enough to prevent abuse yet free enough that mages can learn to practice magic safely without being harassed by superstitions and prejudice. Considering a college and a circle are created regardless of who's divine, how magic is being regulated is not so different no matter who's divine. Cassandra is the same way, she lets the mages choose regardless since she lets the mages "rule themselves" and Vivienne allows the Inquisition mages freedom to make herself look good.

 

-Dwarves and elves have turned their back on the Chantry and men are more vulnerable to anger and passion. Giselle states in truth it is simply political, added after Andraste's death. Leliana addresses this inequality in her reforms adding allies to the Chantry they would not normally have. A more diverse chantry means a stronger Chantry and thus a stronger influence to band people together should an Exalted March be required.

 

 

- Exalted Marches only succeed when carried out by the will of people. People are too easily frightened and they cannot destroy everything they fear. Thus an exalted march is only meant to fight against a true threat to the world not as a political bludgeon. Leliana has the spy network to know what truly endangers Thedas; and knows how to play the game and thus knows how to move people. A Divine must be able to bring nations together, when a true threat arises, and build a coalition. Vivienne is too controversial and Cassandra is more of a warrior and doesn't understand the intricacies of politics. If there is truly a true threat to Thedas, the Chantry as stated is united and under Leliana's leadership, can bring nations together to fight the true threat. Whatever problems her detractors have with her will pale in comparison to the threat such as a Qunari invasion possesses. They will follow the Chantry if the danger is true regardless of their feelings about Leliana's policies and they will not overthrow Leliana nor the Chantry because of it. Their opposition is meaningless when they need a neutral party to band them together.

 

Thus if the Chantry regulates magic, makes their congregation more inclusive, and makes banding nations together in Exalted Marches more effective, the opposition would falter in light of the necessity of the Chantry and Leliana's ability to succeed in these tasks regardless if they disagree with her policies or not.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dean the young,Seems the Inquisition is much like the Grey Wardens that has no country nor do they give fealty to  king or queen yet,both groups saves the world..

 

The Circles was a brutal gilded  cage that failed and the blame of that failure is on the Chantry, Templars and Seekers..

 

Well, the Inquisition does give it's fealty if it survives- to the Divine- but otherwise I don't see what your point is. Or rather, what exactly you think you're countering.

 

No matter who you think the blame for the fall of the Circles deserves to go to, the point is that a great number of people still believe the Circles were warranted. If they don't think the Chantry adequately protects them from mages- such as Leliana's open favoring of the abolition of Circles, let alone what other pro-mage advocates have advocated- they'll take it into their own hands. That's what people do when they think institutions aren't working for them- and that causes problems for everyone, especially the institution in question.

 

But yet the epilogue says the Chantry is kept united in Leliana's divine epilogue if you did her personal quest so the chantry remains united despite your assertions that there will be oppositions. The point is that the oppostions will not affect how the Chantry accomplishes its responsibilities, in fact I argue that Leliana's reforms makes them more effective at it.

 

-snip-

 

Aside from the epilogue's incredibly significant caveat of 'for the moment', you're still not understanding what I'm talking about. You're fixated on the halls of power and the Chantry as an institution where political battles are fought and won- I'm talking about the rural areas where the Chantry's is most dependent on voluntary allegiance to the Divine and her policies, not armies of the faithful or a beuracracy to enforce them.

 

If you believe the public has widespread fear of the mages- and everything in the lore indicates they do, and very little in the lore has suggested a drastic shift in that perspective- then those masses who fear mages will eventually. It doesn't matter who's in the Chantry.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Aside from the epilogue's incredibly significant caveat of 'for the moment', you're still not understanding what I'm talking about. You're fixated on the halls of power and the Chantry as an institution where political battles are fought and won- I'm talking about the rural areas where the Chantry's is most dependent on voluntary allegiance to the Divine and her policies, not armies of the faithful or a beuracracy to enforce them.

Explain to me then, who constitutes in the "voluntarily allegiance" to the Divine that you speak of that Leliana allegedly is so dependent on so I can properly understand you positions. Speak plainly then,

 

 

 

If you believe the public has widespread fear of the mages- and everything in the lore indicates they do, and very little in the lore has suggested a drastic shift in that perspective- then those masses who fear mages will eventually. It doesn't matter who's in the Chantry.

Not everything in lore. The college's allied ending under divine leliana states they recieve acceptance through out Thedas. But as Mother Giselle says, Thedas is a big world and they cannot destroy everything they fear. Individually, these pockets of mobs are of no concern because they do not represent coalitions of nations which is doubtful since all culutures have different perspectives on magic. If they die, no one would heed them any mind unless entire cities are destroyed. Or the College will just hide in societies where magic is accepted. If it's coalitions of nations actively hunting them down, then it should be easy for them to subdue the mages and force them back in their privately owned Circles now isn't it? Problem solved. Whatever it is, it's of no concern to the Chantry.

[Lulupab]

Dean there is "for the moment" in all endings, so I don't see the point.

 

Vivienne's circle is also fully mage controlled. The irony here is Vivienne's version of the circle is almost exactly what Fiona wanted for mages to have during asunder. Full autonomy in circles and no Templar meddling apart from keeping security. She voted against this during asunder.

 

Cassandra also allows mages to govern themselves provided you side with mages (either alliance or conscription). So mages govern themselves in majority of endings.

[Dean_the_Young]

Dean there is "for the moment" in all endings, so I don't see the point.

 

It means that claims that 'Leliana's reforms are working' or 'the Chantry is holding together' are premature, especially when unharded Leliana is receives the most momentary and temporary caveats for her successes.

 

And yes, I do hold the view that the Chantry risks schisms for all the Divines. Leliana is simply the most egregious, and the topic of conversation here.

 

 

 

Vivienne's circle is also fully mage controlled. The irony here is Vivienne's version of the circle is almost exactly what Fiona wanted for mages to have during asunder. Full autonomy in circles and no Templar meddling apart from keeping security. She voted against this during asunder.

 

 

 

Fiona didn't want Templars keeping security either. She was an independence advocate. Vivienne's always been a reformist.
 

 

Cassandra also allows mages to govern themselves provided you side with mages (either alliance or conscription). So mages govern themselves in majority of endings.

 

 

...mages having major reforms and radically increased autonomy in all the endings would rather be the point.

[Dean_the_Young]

Explain to me then, who constitutes in the "voluntarily allegiance" to the Divine that you speak of that Leliana allegedly is so dependent on so I can properly understand you positions. Speak plainly then,

 

 

People follow institutions for two main reasons- compulsion, or because they want to.

 

The Chantry does not have the power, or beauracracy, or the spies, or the resources to enforce its view on everyone. Like most institutions, it is dependent on people choosing to adhere to edicts without being forced. People do this because they variously agree, view as necessary, or acknowledge the legitimacy of the institution.

 

Leliana (and, to a different extent, all the divines) is deliberately engaging in a lot of changes to policies people have considered established and legitimate for centuries. If people do not thing that legitimate and necessary tasks are being carried out by the institution, they will subvert or circumvent it and do it themselves.

 

No amount of political machination or success within the halls of the Chantry or domination of the institution that is the Chantry will change this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not everything in lore. The college's allied ending under divine leliana states they recieve acceptance through out Thedas. But as Mother Giselle says, Thedas is a big world and they cannot destroy everything they fear. Individually, these pockets of mobs are of no concern because they do not represent coalitions of nations which is doubtful since all culutures have different perspectives on magic. If they die, no one would heed them any mind unless entire cities are destroyed. Or the College will just hide in societies where magic is accepted. If it's coalitions of nations actively hunting them down, then it should be easy for them to subdue the mages and force them back in their privately owned Circles now isn't it? Problem solved. Whatever it is, it's of no concern to the Chantry.

 

 

 

Being someone who works in rural where 'pockets of mobs'- aka small towns and villages- define what the country and culture even are, I strongly disagree. Fear spreads, people do care when small towns are destroyed, and in most pre-industrialized societies the rural areas outnumber the urban anyway. The villages are the country.

 

The continuation of your argument, of mages hiding in pro-mage regions, is the consequence of the problem I'm referring to. If the College has to hide in certain societies, despite being openly sanctioned by the Chantry, that by extension means the Chantry has lost sway and influence in those regions where the College can't support itself. That's a very big problem for the Chantry, who's political relevance derives from being a universal commonality- if there are entire regions that the Chantry can't influence (such as to tolerate/support a Divine's pet initiative), that's a signficiant problem for the Chantry. Similarly if a coalition of nations forcibly overturns a Divine's edict by force and shoves mages back into towers. That's not problem solved, end of discussion- that's an even bigger problem for the Chantry, because it means that it's demonstratably lost even more influence and ability to coax reforms because greater powers have organized in opposition to its policies.

 

Whether you think the Chantry is better there than not in general, or view it as the vehicle to promote social reforms in Thedas, either outcome is bad. De-facto schisms and breakdowns of legitimacy limit your reach and ability to convince others to change. Outright rollback by other parties is even worse, as they replace a favored authority with a less progressive one and limit the progressive institution's powers going forward.

[Sports72Xtrm]

It means that claims that 'Leliana's reforms are working' or 'the Chantry is holding together' are premature, especially when unharded Leliana is receives the most momentary and temporary caveats for her successes.

A few assassination attempts at her life doesn't indicate her reforms aren't working. If they aren't making attempts at your life, your not important enough to kill. If they want her dead, that means she's a threat and that her reforms are actually working, which would necessitate a message of force.

[Sports72Xtrm]

People follow institutions for two main reasons- compulsion, or because they want to.

 

The Chantry does not have the power, or beauracracy, or the spies, or the resources to enforce its view on everyone. Like most institutions, it is dependent on people choosing to adhere to edicts without being forced. People do this because they variously agree, view as necessary, or acknowledge the legitimacy of the institution.

 

Leliana (and, to a different extent, all the divines) is deliberately engaging in a lot of changes to policies people have considered established and legitimate for centuries. If people do not thing that legitimate and necessary tasks are being carried out by the institution, they will subvert or circumvent it and do it themselves.

 

No amount of political machination or success within the halls of the Chantry or domination of the institution that is the Chantry will change this.

If it were so easy to subvert the Chantry, then how has it survived this long? It's true, Leliana cannot go to foreign nations and subvert it by strength of arms. But she can blacklist those nations on lyrium and pressure its nobles to get chantry dissenters to fall in line. all of Thedas runs on lyrium: templars, the mages' harrowings, enchantments. A heretic nation is considerably weaker without lyrium, easy pickings for foreign invasion and truly hurts the economy of the heretics. And considering Leliana is allowing the dwarves into the clergy, the King of Orzammar is far more likely to be friendly to a Divine Leliana than a heretic who wants to ban dwarves from having a say in the Chantry institutions which controls the lyrium trade. And that's not even getting into the fact that Leliana has powerful political contacts, created a vast network of spies and assassins, friends with the former members of the diverse Inquisition which can project physical, political, and clandestine force to far away places. You severely underestimate the power the Chantry can project and if needed, Leliana can compulse a heretic to follow her policies because their lives may literally depend on it. The resistance may filabuster but they don't hold any true power that can subdue Leliana. Leliana does have power and that's why the Divine is able to enact such reforms. Leliana holds the economy and security of a heretic's homeland in her hands. Even fear of mages has its limits when they realize their resistance will only make their lives worse. Nobody wants to die for a lost cause.

 

 

Being someone who works in rural where 'pockets of mobs'- aka small towns and villages- define what the country and culture even are, I strongly disagree. Fear spreads, people do care when small towns are destroyed, and in most pre-industrialized societies the rural areas outnumber the urban anyway. The villages are the country.

 

The continuation of your argument, of mages hiding in pro-mage regions, is the consequence of the problem I'm referring to. If the College has to hide in certain societies, despite being openly sanctioned by the Chantry, that by extension means the Chantry has lost sway and influence in those regions where the College can't support itself. That's a very big problem for the Chantry, who's political relevance derives from being a universal commonality- if there are entire regions that the Chantry can't influence (such as to tolerate/support a Divine's pet initiative), that's a signficiant problem for the Chantry. Similarly if a coalition of nations forcibly overturns a Divine's edict by force and shoves mages back into towers. That's not problem solved, end of discussion- that's an even bigger problem for the Chantry, because it means that it's demonstratably lost even more influence and ability to coax reforms because greater powers have organized in opposition to its policies.

 

Whether you think the Chantry is better there than not in general, or view it as the vehicle to promote social reforms in Thedas, either outcome is bad. De-facto schisms and breakdowns of legitimacy limit your reach and ability to convince others to change. Outright rollback by other parties is even worse, as they replace a favored authority with a less progressive one and limit the progressive institution's powers going forward.

Very well, as stated above, I've listed a myriad of ways for Divine Leliana can force heretic nations to be compulsed to follow her policies. Thus, she is able to exert influence or her enemies and enforce her reforms.

 

Though it probably won't be necessary, she can recreate the inquisition and call an exalted march to subdue her enemies.

[Xilizhra]

The whole discussion is moot, because we mostly know how it works.

If mages were allied: mages ride the wave of public acceptance from aiding the Inquisition to get the College of Enchanters working without pushback from the populace.

If templars were recruited: there are so few mages left alive that any practical effect from Leliana's policies would not be pronounced at all for some time.

The only place it gets murky is if the mages were conscripted, in which case they were part of the Inquisition until they suddenly weren't. That might be claimed to cause issues of chaos (though I really doubt it will), but I never fail to be confused by people who keep bringing up the "mages as allies" ending as if it wasn't already explained.

[Tidus]

Dean,If you argue with Vivienne about mages  you will see her real colors come out. She hates the rebel mages and Fiona and condemns  the Inquisitor for allowing them to be full allies without Templars as watch dogs. 

 

You do know before leaving the Circles to purge the rebel mages they killed innocent mages of all ages that remained in the Circle as well as the tranquil. This comes out  in the story line.

 

Think on this..The Chantry says the mages must be closely watched by their thug Templars and then the Chantry turn a blind eye on their thug Templar  watch dogs. In a way that Templar that knocked out the Sister in Val Royeaux showed the Templars  violent colors.. 

[Dabrikishaw]

All the Divines are the same due to Trespasser, so remember that this discussion is only one of headcanon. There's no need for anyone to get hostile or accusatory.

[Dragongirl24]

Who is Divine Victoria  ?

[vbibbi]

Who is Divine Victoria  ?

 

Play through to the end of DAI base game.

 

Spoiler

Divine Victoria is the new Divine elected at the end of DAI. It will either be Leliana, Cassandra, or Vivienne based on your choices throughout the game. They have different epilogue slides on their reigns also based on our decisions in-game. As of Trespasser, it seems that most diverging outcomes have been unified, as it will be easier to have one canon state of the Southern Chantry in DA4.

[Dragongirl24]

Oh i thought she was someone new i had no idea thank you Vbibbi .  

[Marika Haliwell]

Morrigan is Divine ! 

[sniper_arrow]

Morrigan is Divine ! 

 

No! Isabela is Divine!

[The Baconer]

I like Vivtoria. Southern Chantry gets its mage Divine. Circle mages get more opportunities to grab political power like Vivienne, and the Templars get the choke chain.

[Mistic]

The whole discussion is moot, because we mostly know how it works.

If mages were allied: mages ride the wave of public acceptance from aiding the Inquisition to get the College of Enchanters working without pushback from the populace.

If templars were recruited: there are so few mages left alive that any practical effect from Leliana's policies would not be pronounced at all for some time.

The only place it gets murky is if the mages were conscripted, in which case they were part of the Inquisition until they suddenly weren't. That might be claimed to cause issues of chaos (though I really doubt it will), but I never fail to be confused by people who keep bringing up the "mages as allies" ending as if it wasn't already explained.

 

Well, actually it's moot for an even more important reason: no matter what you do, the epilogue of Trespasser reveals that there will always be a College and a Circle in the end.

 

It doesn't matter if it comes from "mages free, create College, a minority wants the Circle back" or "mages in the Circle, some of them stay away and found the College" situation, because we can guess that Bioware will need just a timeskip to have them both equal in power for the next game that wants to address the issue (if DA4 is truly set in Tevinter, it gives them even more time).

 

Also, for all the talk about mage dangers and mage freedom and the need for institutions, the College is an institution too. Even a Leliana ending doesn't mean sudden mage anarchy.

[Daerog]

All the Divines are the same due to Trespasser, so remember that this discussion is only one of headcanon. There's no need for anyone to get hostile or accusatory.

^^This.

Vivienne does reform parts of the Chantry that are not dogmas, same as the other two. The Circle has as much freedom as it does with the other two. The College exists. The state of the Chantry is the same... this is a BioWare series, where you only change the details, not the overall plot.

Viv will do just as well, she fits well, and she'll probably be happier than the other two in such a position. Then again, that is just speculation and headcanon.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

My least favorite candidate is Vivienne, because I see her as obviously the most susceptible to corruption and the least likely to use her position to do anything for anyone besides herself and her own whims. She's only doing this for power and to further inflate her own ego. I believe Cassandra and Leliana both care about the good of others above anything else, even if they have different approaches to that, which is enough for me to choose either of them first without hesitation. While I think Cassandra is a better choice than Vivienne, I feel much more strongly towards the changes Leliana will make, especially the "softened" Leliana and her approach to making these changes. For me, she's always been the easiest strongly Andrastrian character to stomach in the games. 

 

I also feel like Leliana is just the most strongly qualified for the job outside of agreeing with her politics. She's a balance between what Vivienne and Cassandra have to offer, as I see it. Leliana is great with people, due to her Bard training. I think she's probably more capable than Vivienne in this right, honestly. Vivienne is too overt and I feel like her style goes over well in Orlais and possibly Antiva, but probably wouldn't win much favor in Ferelden and some other areas. I don't think she's likely to grasp the idea that the Orlesian methods won't fly in every Andrastrian country in Thedas. I'd even go as far as to say she's too prideful to even consider it worth her time to appeal to such "barbarian" countries. I think Leliana would be more aware of the multiple facets needed and less likely to turn up her nose at playing to those demographics. Cassandra is no doubt a capable fighter, but I don't think she's got anything on Leliana for her strengths, either. Leliana has been a major part of saving the world twice now, and was right there with Cassandra when we saw her in DA2. She fought the Archdemon and now Corypheus. I think her incredible past experience could be easily leveraged to earn a great deal of respect that the other two somewhat lack, since they were only present for the breach and not the last blight.

 

So, basically, I think Leliana is overall the most balanced choice with the most experience backing her up. I think Vivienne's social prowess is overstated, because it's very specifically Orlesian and I don't see it going over well everywhere. Cassandra is not a politician and I don't see her doing much better on that front, but I think Leliana would have more broad appeal than Vivienne and less cause to see her changes as ulterior motives. Vivienne loosens restrictions on mages, but this will be heavily scrutinized since she is a mage. Leliana loosened restrictions in a broad spectrum way and that's going to appeal to a lot of people, even with others being chaffed. Accepting elves and dwarves will open up for a large number of new supporters. Even normal human men have cause to see her changes as a benefit, since now they can have a position in the Chantry. As for her survivability, with everything she's been through it's hard to imagine anyone else in Thedas could be more highly recommended. Meta knowledge suggests that we'll get roughly the same results, regardless who we choose, but as far as just following the narrative, I see Leliana as a way to finish what Justinia was starting and build on that, which I think is a good thing.   

[vbibbi]

My least favorite candidate is Vivienne, because I see her as obviously the most susceptible to corruption and the least likely to use her position to do anything for anyone besides herself and her own whims. She's only doing this for power and to further inflate her own ego. I believe Cassandra and Leliana both care about the good of others above anything else, even if they have different approaches to that, which is enough for me to choose either of them first without hesitation. While I think Cassandra is a better choice than Vivienne, I feel much more strongly towards the changes Leliana will make, especially the "softened" Leliana and her approach to making these changes. For me, she's always been the easiest strongly Andrastrian character to stomach in the games. 

 

I also feel like Leliana is just the most strongly qualified for the job outside of agreeing with her politics. She's a balance between what Vivienne and Cassandra have to offer, as I see it. Leliana is great with people, due to her Bard training. I think she's probably more capable than Vivienne in this right, honestly. Vivienne is too overt and I feel like her style goes over well in Orlais and possibly Antiva, but probably wouldn't win much favor in Ferelden and some other areas. I don't think she's likely to grasp the idea that the Orlesian methods won't fly in every Andrastrian country in Thedas. I'd even go as far as to say she's too prideful to even consider it worth her time to appeal to such "barbarian" countries. I think Leliana would be more aware of the multiple facets needed and less likely to turn up her nose at playing to those demographics. Cassandra is no doubt a capable fighter, but I don't think she's got anything on Leliana for her strengths, either. Leliana has been a major part of saving the world twice now, and was right there with Cassandra when we saw her in DA2. She fought the Archdemon and now Corypheus. I think her incredible past experience could be easily leveraged to earn a great deal of respect that the other two somewhat lack, since they were only present for the breach and not the last blight.

 

So, basically, I think Leliana is overall the most balanced choice with the most experience backing her up. I think Vivienne's social prowess is overstated, because it's very specifically Orlesian and I don't see it going over well everywhere. Cassandra is not a politician and I don't see her doing much better on that front, but I think Leliana would have more broad appeal than Vivienne and less cause to see her changes as ulterior motives. Vivienne loosens restrictions on mages, but this will be heavily scrutinized since she is a mage. Leliana loosened restrictions in a broad spectrum way and that's going to appeal to a lot of people, even with others being chaffed. Accepting elves and dwarves will open up for a large number of new supporters. Even normal human men have cause to see her changes as a benefit, since now they can have a position in the Chantry. As for her survivability, with everything she's been through it's hard to imagine anyone else in Thedas could be more highly recommended. Meta knowledge suggests that we'll get roughly the same results, regardless who we choose, but as far as just following the narrative, I see Leliana as a way to finish what Justinia was starting and build on that, which I think is a good thing.   

 

I agree with Leliana's ideals the most of the candidates, but I unfortunately don't think that she would realistically be able to achieve most of them. The DAI epilogues make her rule out to be fairly easy going, assassination attempts aside, but realistically her extremely liberal views would be seen as heretical to many conservative Andrasteans and could lead to a church schism like the Reformation (but in reverse). She is trying to change too much too quickly; such widespread change is not accomplished in one generation.

 

Vivienne has been a politician since entering the Circles. She knows how to compromise, when to play her cards and when to hold them. Her opinions might not be the most liberal, especially to contemporary real life, but I think she knows how best to achieve what she wants successfully. The Divine doesn't hold unlimited power; we see in Asunder that the Divine is only as powerful as the templars and Seekers allow her to be.