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[In Exile]

Actually I was was around when months before KOTOR came out and after it released. Back with Chris Priestly was just a QA Tester and always dropping by to answer questions.

My point was that KOTOR put Bioware on the mainstream map the same way TW3 has put CDPR on the mainstream map, despite the successes of TW1 and TW2. It will be Cyberpunk 2077 that really allows CDPR to launch just as ME1 did the same for Bioware. It is what CDPR does after Cyberpunk 2077 which will really define who they are. After ME1, Bioware sold themselves to EA and we all know how the rest of that story goes....

No. KotOR didn't put Bioware on the map. It was already on the map. BG out Bioware on the map - that was a very well received game that was seen as an excellent realization of D&D combat. BG2 put Bioware (such as it was) in the upper echelon of developers.

KotOR was super popular and drew in a lot of gamers. It also drew a lot of hate. Like NWN drew a lot of hate. These games drew in their own generation of fans.

ME1 didn't do anything for Bioware. TW3 did way more than put CDPR on the map - this is a game that's way more successful than anything Bioware's ever done. There's no possible comparison.

Your scenario is a fantasy.

[In Exile]

Unless, of course, they screw up the shift toward a custom PC, deliver more bugs and graphical complaints, and can't figure out what to do with a world that isn't The Continent. We've seen what CDPR can do while feeding directly off other source material. Cyberpunk 2077 will be something else altogether, and there are plenty of cracks in The Witcher 3 that could indicate a "mediocre" game.

In terms of discussing developer "personality", that's nothing but speculation and, frankly, the realm of fanboy trumpeting. The Witcher 3 can very easily be seen as their Mass Effect 2, though: more popular with a mass audience, but also an attempt at a mainstream gaming experience where they abandoned the superior elements of the game that came before it.

TW2 and TW3 were their Mass Effect 2. Because they already did so much to make their game series palpable to a general audience and woek on consoles. It's just that TW1 had so many gameplay issues people don't see it as a betrayal because no one was lamenting that gameplay.

And ME1 was already a huge push to the mainstream for Bioware (relative to RPGs). Just like KotOR and JE before it. Bioware has always wanted to be mainstream because they're not some weirdo hipster company.

And CPDR is a brilliantly run subsidiary of the largest game publisher in Europe. They've mastered the art of blowing smoke up gamers assess and now have people praising them to high heaven for doing the very things they hate other developers for doing, largely because they do them well and say the right things. CDPR should be a case study for every business student for a generation.

[LinksOcarina]

TW2 and TW3 were their Mass Effect 2. Because they already did so much to make their game series palpable to a general audience and woek on consoles. It's just that TW1 had so many gameplay issues people don't see it as a betrayal because no one was lamenting that gameplay.

And ME1 was already a huge push to the mainstream for Bioware (relative to RPGs). Just like KotOR and JE before it. Bioware has always wanted to be mainstream because they're not some weirdo hipster company.

And CPDR is a brilliantly run subsidiary of the largest game publisher in Europe. They've mastered the art of blowing smoke up gamers assess and now have people praising them to high heaven for doing the very things they hate other developers for doing, largely because they do them well and say the right things. CDPR should be a case study for every business student for a generation.

 

Plus, they have GOG which gives them enough revenue to blow that smoke too...

[Majestic Jazz]

No. KotOR didn't put Bioware on the map. It was already on the map. BG out Bioware on the map - that was a very well received game that was seen as an excellent realization of D&D combat. BG2 put Bioware (such as it was) in the upper echelon of developers.

KotOR was super popular and drew in a lot of gamers. It also drew a lot of hate. Like NWN drew a lot of hate. These games drew in their own generation of fans.

ME1 didn't do anything for Bioware. TW3 did way more than put CDPR on the map - this is a game that's way more successful than anything Bioware's ever done. There's no possible comparison.

Your scenario is a fantasy.

1) KOTOR did put Bioware on the map. Before that, they were just known to PC gamers. KOTOR releasing exclusively on the Xbox brought console gamers to know Bioware and was a game that recieved more media coverage than BG and NWN as well as awards.

2) ME1 solidified the success that Bioware had with cinematic story-telling. Jade Empire couldnt do that, but ME1 did. It was ME1 that really began the large cult/fan following of Bioware and continued with Dragon Age. Why is it that there are always more ME related coseplay as opposed to that of BG and NWN? We are nearing 10 years since the release of ME1 and yet here we are talking about a 4th entry into the series. ME is still relevant 10 years later. Where is BG and NWN? It is always said by the Bioware Doctors and Casey Hudson that ME1 was the game that they always wanted to make, not BG or NWN. Even after all the hate that ME3 had, Bioware still came back with essentially a ME4.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I never said that nudity in TW3 made it more mature, you did. Go back and try to quote me where I implied that more nudity makes a more mature game. You comment is just another generic comment that TW3 bashers like to throw out in order to dismiss the game the same way people who bash DAI like to throw out the term SJW to dismiss DAI. Try harder next time.

 

I like how you focused on one facetious comment and completely disregarded the rest of my post. That certainly encourages reasonable discourse.

[UpUpAway]

I don't even necessarily need super dark themes in ME:A. We had plenty of that in ME3. I'd be happy with a more hopeful tone (which would also work well with the exploration theme). Of course, there will be conflicts but I like that e.g. ME1 painted a picture of a future where not all but a lot of problems of our world today are actually solved or at least mitigated (and replaced with different new problems).

 

That said, I do agree with the OP that - whatever story and themes the devs do want to use in ME:A - they should show, not tell. I am not a fan of letters, journals or logs, I want to experience, not be told through a third party.

 

However, I do prefer a Codex entry to a dozen live Avina tours.

[AlanC9]

1) KOTOR did put Bioware on the map. Before that, they were just known to PC gamers. KOTOR releasing exclusively on the Xbox brought console gamers to know Bioware and was a game that recieved more media coverage than BG and NWN as well as awards.

How many gamers were "console gamers" in that year, anyway? The XBox itself had only been out for, what, about two years? Less?

[In Exile]

How many gamers were "console gamers" in that year, anyway? The XBox itself had only been out for, what, about two years? Less?

Ignoring the fact KotOR came out for the PC immediately after, the Xbox wasn't all that popular a console compared to the PS2 especially at that point in the life cycle.

[rashie]

Feels like revisionist history to claim that BG1, and especially 2,  wasn't what put bioware on the map as a quality rpg developer.

 

The less profitable infinity engine game of that era was planescape torment, which was mostly a black isle/interplay affair.

[In Exile]

Feels like revisionist history to claim that BG1, and especially 2, wasn't what put bioware on the map as a quality rpg developer.

The less profitable infinity engine game of that era was planescape torment, which was mostly a black isle/interplay affair.

It's pure fantasy. Bioware has a premier developer. Part of how the avoided getting Obsidian'd on KotOR tied in with their rep.

[AlanC9]

My impression is that KotOR sold longer and to newer players than, say, NWN or the IE games did. So it's not so much that KotOR was a bigger hit than NWN, it's that more guys who started with KotOR are still with us as gamers.

[rashie]

It's pure fantasy. Bioware has a premier developer. Part of how the avoided getting Obsidian'd on KotOR tied in with their rep.

I'm aware, although I'll put part of the blame for how TSL ended up on lucasarts. A lot of folks at obsidian came that way from the demise of black isle, and was by no means amateurs.