261 réponses à ce sujet

[Giubba]

They did not do a perfect job because the Keyboard/Mouse controls were quite bad.

 

The fact that you have controller support isn't a valid excuse for that on the PC version.

 

They did and it's not an excuse it's a fact.

 

If people deluded themselves that they would develop the game 2 times (1 time around a gameplay based for console that use only a controller and another one based on a KB&M) and than use all that time for putting it only in 1 platform (PC) against the other 4 (PS4,PS3,XBOX 360 and XBOX 1) it's not bioware fault

[Cyonan]

They did and it's not an excuse it's a fact.

 

If people deluded themselves that they would develop the game 2 times (1 time around a gameplay based for console that use only a controller and another one based on a KB&M) and than use all that time for putting it only in 1 platform (PC) against the other 4 (PS4,PS3,XBOX 360 and XBOX 1) it's not bioware fault

 

It's an excuse. Mass Effect 1 had fine PC controls and it was a game on consoles too. Even Mass Effect 3 wouldn't be bad if you just got rid of the space bar being an omni-button.

 

The game doesn't have to be developed for KB/M first and foremost, but the controls for that setup shouldn't be bad if the game is on PC. That's the primary setup of that platform.

 

Likewise the controls for a controller shouldn't be bad for consoles, because that's the primary control setup for that platform.

 

Keep in mind I'm saying the controls shouldn't be bad. Not that they should be the greatest thing ever.

[Giubba]

Yeah I finished the game 20 times with keyboard and mouse but I've also played many other PC games and it was obvious to anyone they failed the PC controls. Not sure why you are defending them. You're the only one who is.

 

No they didn't and i "defend"  bioware because they deserve and DESERVED to be defended against this kind of behavior.

 

No DAI was a great game,

No DAI had a good control scheme

No DAI wasn't an insult to the community in fact it was the sums of A LOT of things people who came here pestered bioware for years

 

And as Revan Reborn wrote before if they didn't paid so much attention to those demands the game would have been even better.

 

And so i hope that in andromeda we will see a BIOWARE game not a BIOWARE COMMUNITY game

[AlanC9]

I still don't see the issue with the PC controls, aside from the dopey default key assignments which were copied from DA:O. WASD movement is a thing, isn't it?

[Cyonan]

I still don't see the issue with the PC controls, aside from the dopey default key assignments which were copied from DA:O. WASD movement is a thing, isn't it?

 

It's mostly the tactical cam that had the wonky PC controls from what I recall.

 

Action cam was workable even if not great, which is how it's been in all 3 Dragon Age games.

[Kyrissae]

I have to say I diasgree with the notion that showing violence = treating the player as an adult. Being an adult also means to be able to read between the lines, to understand more subtle clues and hints. Inquisition has plenty of those.

Opinions vary, of course, but I personally prefer a game without tons of sexism and homophobia and discrimination. It might seem like a nice realistic feature if one belongs to a majority, but for others...

 

As for the letters and journals. That's one of the things I find most intriguing about DA. The player receives little pieces of information about the world and its history and magic, that can be highly subjective, depending on the fictional author. We will read one thing, hear another and can make our own deductions. It keeps us guessing and the world fascinating.

[AlanC9]

It's mostly the tactical cam that had the wonky PC controls from what I recall.
 
Action cam was workable even if not great, which is how it's been in all 3 Dragon Age games.

I can see that. The tac cam is pretty much the camera from the Total War games, but a lot of us never played those.

[Addictress]

Also looting and interacting with right-click.

[Giubba]

It's mostly the tactical cam that had the wonky PC controls from what I recall.

 

Action cam was workable even if not great, which is how it's been in all 3 Dragon Age games.

 

They were so bad that you don't even exactly remember why there were so bad.

 

Maybe they weren't this bad?

[Cyonan]

They were so bad that you don't even exactly remember why there were so bad.

 

Maybe they weren't this bad?

 

I do remember but I've said why dozens of times between launch and now and didn't feel like getting into yet another discussion about why the DA:I Tac Cam controls were bad with KB/M.

 

This isn't a thread about DA:I controls, or even control schemes in general.

[SofaJockey]

Er, are there three different conversations going on in this thread?

1. An 'exploration' game is possibly less likely to attract deep social commentary vs something more contained like DA2 and ME2.
2. Not showering in underwear would be good. Adult approach to romance please.
3. DAI was a success (in a slow year) with some good stories as well as some uninspired filler.
4. I suspect MEA will have plenty of filler - I just hope it's inspired filler.
5. Hopefully 'PC game by PC gamers-gate' will mean some lessons were learned...

[Giubba]

I do remember but I've said why dozens of times between launch and now and didn't feel like getting into yet another discussion about why the DA:I Tac Cam controls were bad with KB/M.

 

This isn't a thread about DA:I controls, or even control schemes in general.

 

Ok so people should stop using it as some kind of negative paragon (eh).

 

but i reckognize that i derailed this thread

[Heathen Oxman]

To be fair to DAI, Bioware adopted the same style people fell over themselves saying they liked with Skyrim - archeology based storytelling.

 

"Archeology-based storytelling" is now my new favorite phrase.

 

And my Argonian didn't have the time to sit in moldering crypts and read books.

[Dalinne]

I don't know what to think

Keep talking

[AlanC9]

Also looting and interacting with right-click.

What about them? I don't see any difference between DAI's implementation and, say, Skyrim's or Mass Effect's.

[FKA_Servo]

This isn't a thread about DA:I controls, or even control schemes in general.

 

Considering the thread's pedigree, it might as well be.

[Kabraxal]

I have to say I diasgree with the notion that showing violence = treating the player as an adult. Being an adult also means to be able to read between the lines, to understand more subtle clues and hints. Inquisition has plenty of those.
Opinions vary, of course, but I personally prefer a game without tons of sexism and homophobia and discrimination. It might seem like a nice realistic feature if one belongs to a majority, but for others...
 
As for the letters and journals. That's one of the things I find most intriguing about DA. The player receives little pieces of information about the world and its history and magic, that can be highly subjective, depending on the fictional author. We will read one thing, hear another and can make our own deductions. It keeps us guessing and the world fascinating.

What is even stranger... The Inquisition is coming into situations AFTER they started... So naturally you won't see everything since, in many cases, they were the cleanup. What DA:I did show was the aftermath... Walking into several zones and immediately realise it's history without a single word is not telling.

It seems the main complaints are that the game didn't hold your hand and take you on a guided tour and that, by the nature of the story, the Inquisitor is mostly a reactionary element and not the instigator. We were playing catch up. So we weren't always in the centre of every event like in DA:O.

[LexXxich]

Archaeology-based storytelling works when you can't have characters in your story act that story out. Like how in horror game, everyone is already dead, so logs and diaries have to talk instead.
But it is not synonymous with "Tell, don't show", since it's based on a player examining material evidence. Continuing with horror example, you see blood on the walls way before you find first logbook.

Continuing on DAI, I really wish BW drops their annoying habit (it seems to persist even with devs changing all the time) that makes them over-react to perceived failings of their games. People complain about ME1 Mako and inventory clatter? CUT EVERYTHING IN ME2! Too many returning characters in ME2? MAKE ME3 THE BEST INSTALMENT TO START PLAYING A TRILOGY! DAO too big and confusing? MAKE DA2 SMALL AS NUTS AND LINEAR AS RAIL! DA2 too small and ugly? MAKE DAI HUGE, ALSO, SKYRIM IS "IN" THESE DAYS, IMPLEMENT RANDOMLY CHOSEN FEATURES FROM IT!
I shudder to think which complaints from ME3 and DAI they'll overblow this time.
Note: complaints are most of the time legit, but what BW does about them oftentimes isn't, described above.

Also about DAI KB/M controls. It had that annoying thing where you had to manually move your character to something interactable and only then (when in range) click RMB on it to interact. Just clicking RMB from a distance didn't do anything. Intuitively, it's supposed to make a character run to the item and use it.

[Addictress]

What is even stranger... The Inquisition is coming into situations AFTER they started... So naturally you won't see everything since, in many cases, they were the cleanup. What DA:I did show was the aftermath... Walking into several zones and immediately realise it's history without a single word is not telling.

It seems the main complaints are that the game didn't hold your hand and take you on a guided tour and that, by the nature of the story, the Inquisitor is mostly a reactionary element and not the instigator. We were playing catch up. So we weren't always in the centre of every event like in DA:O.

You didn't realize its history walking into zones. Littering an environment you can barely interact with with notes and letters is not conducive to an immersive history.

It worked in Skyrim but only because the entire game is designed around exploration, not narrative or character. You end up being so, so immersed....entire quests rely on interacting with objects, reading letters, exploring dungeons of lost races....going to libraries and each book can be read and collected.....


Bioware games are cinematic narratives. You have characters, who perform actions. You have companions. The story is unfolding. It's NOT hand holding. It's an Entirely different way of presenting a story.

It fell flat on its face. We're making decisions about Briala and Celene and Gaspard NOW, but the weight of those decisions is suddenly historical? In Skyrim, you read about ancient Dwemer and Snow Elves...their history is buried in the environment. Are you making main decisions about Snow Elves and Dwemer politics? No. You make decisions on Ulfred and the Imperials, all of whom are dramatized through theatrical scripted narrative.

[Addictress]

The rifts barely affect any villagers or surrounding people....the NPCs are rigid and unresponsive....the rifts don't spawn demons unless you're near them.

The war between Celene and Gaspard in the Exalted Plains doesn't have any significance because you only know whose army is whose if you talk to a particular NPC and chose one brief dialogue option. The letters looted are cliche soldier letters that could be found in ANY war game. The visuals don't have stark contrast as to who is Celene's side or who is Gaspard's, and there is no difference in behavior or anything for you to care which ruler rules however when choosing between them. The stormcloaks and imperials on the other hand were VERY obviously distinguished. Visually, aurally, in manner, and constantly identified themselves as separate factions.

[pdusen]

Hi, Jazz.

[rashie]

The rifts barely affect any villagers or surrounding people....the NPCs are rigid and unresponsive....the rifts don't spawn demons unless you're near them.

The war between Celene and Gaspard in the Exalted Plains doesn't have any significance because you only know whose army is whose if you talk to a particular NPC and chose one brief dialogue option. The letters looted are cliche soldier letters that could be found in ANY war game. The visuals don't have stark contrast as to who is Celene's side or who is Gaspard's, and there is no difference in behavior or anything for you to care which ruler rules however when choosing between them. The stormcloaks and imperials on the other hand were VERY obviously distinguished. Visually, aurally, in manner, and constantly identified themselves as separate factions.

Honestly, the biggest flaw with the civil war in DA:I is that it relies on people reading books like 'The Masked Empire' to get deeper background information on what's going on.

[Addictress]

So no, they didn't show. Stop belittling people because they criticize a game for failing to design properly. Demonstrating concepts through visual and aural media and theatrical narrative instead of cramming important distinguished concepts in slips of paper or buried dialogue options with stiffly animated NPCs, instead of placing random objects around that don't make spatial sense and then asking you to care or make decisions about those very same concepts now in the current story isn't wanting hand holding.

[Laughing_Man]

To be fair to DAI, Bioware adopted the same style people fell over themselves saying they liked with Skyrim - archeology based storytelling.

 

I'm just saying this is a style of gameplay that was openly praised by people as "world building".

 

But.. that's not made Skyrim an appealing game for so many people.

 

It's like they cherry picked the most useless and uninteresting aspects of the concept of Skyrim, and went with it. I find it mind boggling.

 

Instead of complete freedom of choice in character development and a (supposedly) intuitive leveling system, they went for traditional

highly distinct classes and the annoying 8 ability limit.

 

Instead of a fun gameplay concept like the Shouts, we had boring MMO style combat with very little oomph to it.

Instead of a huge selection of free mods we have overpriced visual DLC.

[Kabraxal]

You didn't realize its history walking into zones. Littering an environment you can barely interact with with notes and letters is not conducive to an immersive history.
It worked in Skyrim but only because the entire game is designed around exploration, not narrative or character. You end up being so, so immersed....entire quests rely on interacting with objects, reading letters, exploring dungeons of lost races....going to libraries and each book can be read and collected.....
Bioware games are cinematic narratives. You have characters, who perform actions. You have companions. The story is unfolding. It's NOT hand holding. It's an Entirely different way of presenting a story.
It fell flat on its face. We're making decisions about Briala and Celene and Gaspard NOW, but the weight of those decisions is suddenly historical? In Skyrim, you read about ancient Dwemer and Snow Elves...their history is buried in the environment. Are you making main decisions about Snow Elves and Dwemer politics? No. You make decisions on Ulfred and the Imperials, all of whom are dramatized through theatrical scripted narrative.

So you didn't notice the ruins or the trenches full of bodies where the undead are rising from or the burnt remnants of villages or any of the easy to see historical (recent or ancient) flags is what you are saying. And if you were paying attention, you'd realise the story was heavily focused on the ancient past awakening to a foreign world.... So yeah, those ancient markers and flags actually do play a much heavier role than you think.

But then you seemed to have missed what much of the story is about, even though both Solas and Corypheus spell it out plainly in cutscenes... It seems Dragon Age just isn't the franchise for your tastes. This isn't belittling people for not seeing it... Just pointing out you are wrong when screaming "show don't tell!".