261 réponses à ce sujet

[Al Foley]

I doubt it.  

 

DA I was about....well the Inquisition.  The organization as much as any of the characters involved.  And while the character arcs in the game were fine for all parties concerned, including the Inquisitor, the idea they advanced constantly throughout media was that you were building an Organization.  Which is why you could not do EVERYTHING.  It would be stupid and pointless, especially in a world like Thedas, to have the Inquisitor running around as some super man able to fix all the worlds problems with personally involved cinematic cut scenes etc, etc, etc.  

 

But with Andromeda we have three facts established by the devolopers:  

• Andromeda will focus on a younger, untested cast.  
• This cast will be small and untested.  
• It will chronicle the story of how your character goes from young, untested, and maybe generally bad at their job, to very competent and perhaps a bad ass hero/ legend.  

This suggests that the narrative structure of everything they are doing is fundamentally different from Inquisition so Ryder will be far more involved in their narrative then the Inquisitor on a ground level.  Though I expect some type of war table to be implemented because of the vast and far reaching colonies throughout the Helios cluster you are likely to encounter.  They may not to be protected, saved, or resources gathered.  Etc.  

 

But I do not expect them to make Inquisition's 'mistakes'. 

[Addictress]

So you didn't notice the ruins or the trenches full of bodies where the undead are rising from or the burnt remnants of villages or any of the easy to see historical (recent or ancient) flags is what you are saying. And if you were paying attention, you'd realise the story was heavily focused on the ancient past awakening to a foreign world.... So yeah, those ancient markers and flags actually do play a much heavier role than you think.

But then you seemed to have missed what much of the story is about, even though both Solas and Corypheus spell it out plainly in cutscenes... It seems Dragon Age just isn't the franchise for your tastes. This isn't belittling people for not seeing it... Just pointing out you are wrong when screaming "show don't tell!".

Yeah, ruins and trenches full of bodies are found in literally every RPG game nowadays. Where is the character? What is it?

 

Both Origins AND Dragon Age 2 showed, but didn't tell. They were fine. So was the entire ME trilogy.

[Outsider]

Yes.

[Al Foley]

Yeah, ruins and trenches full of bodies are found in literally every RPG game nowadays. Where is the character? What is it?

 

Both Origins AND Dragon Age 2 showed, but didn't tell. They were fine. So was the entire ME trilogy.

ME 3 had several instances of telling a story via several codex entries and the whole game's mini war table.  

[AtreiyaN7]

A brief synopsis of this thread: MajesticJazz complains about DA:I's alleged failings yet again, praises TW3 over everything it does yet again, and basically goes "Gee, will BW do x/y/z just like TW3? Because they should since TW3 and CD Projekt Red are the greatest things since sliced bread and BW should do everything CDPR does!" for the umpteenth time.

 

The End!

[Addictress]

ME 3 had several instances of telling a story via several codex entries and the whole game's mini war table.  

Yeah I can see why the war table bothered people.

 

But I felt at least the main plots had appropriate pacing, unlike Corypheus who makes one big show at Battle of Haven (I thought Battle of Haven was a really great quest by the way. Good music, good pacing, good fights), then you don't see him really do anything... then you beat him rly easily. Cut up in between by Halamshiral, full of fetch quests and... you get the point.

 

You have Tuchanka (which is kind of a sub plot, like Halamshiral) and the Quarians, and each of those subplot missions felt quite grandiose on their own, not to mention you were beat over the head by their respective conflicts in the past two games. But with Briala and Gaspard, unless you read the books you wouldn't have any feelings on them. And it was also our first intro to Val Royeaux.

 

Adamant was actually a pretty good quest though.

[Al Foley]

Yeah I can see why the war table bothered people.

 

But I felt at least the main plots had appropriate pacing, unlike Corypheus who makes one big show at Battle of Haven (I thought Battle of Haven was a really great quest by the way. Good music, good pacing, good fights), then you don't see him really do anything... then you beat him rly easily. Cut up in between by Halamshiral, full of fetch quests and... you get the point.

 

You have Tuchanka (which is kind of a sub plot, like Halamshiral) and the Quarians, and each of those subplot missions felt quite grandiose on their own, not to mention you were beat over the head by their respective conflicts in the past two games. But with Briala and Gaspard, unless you read the books you wouldn't have any feelings on them. And it was also our first intro to Val Royeaux.

 

Adamant was actually a pretty good quest though.

All DA Is main quests were pretty good save for the first, the last, and IHW.  But, to bring it around to the point, this is the style of story BW chose to tell with Inquisition.  A top down war between two powerful organizations.  And in that vain Corypheus was brilliant and it was pure dumb luck the Inquisition managed to survive anything he did and was able to foil him.  Even then a lot of what he did was a delaying action.  Which is, given what he was doing, brilliant. 

[Kabraxal]

Yeah, ruins and trenches full of bodies are found in literally every RPG game nowadays. Where is the character? What is it?
 
Both Origins AND Dragon Age 2 showed, but didn't tell. They were fine. So was the entire ME trilogy.

So? Tons of games show beheadings does that discount a cutscene if it shows that? The trenches of bodies were directly connected to the zone and the events that have happened recently... It was showing you quite a bit. You just wanted an hour long cutscene showing the battle and the survivors placing the bodies into the trenches. Again, you don't like the fact that the Inquisitor isn't present for these events, but that is not a reasonable expectation. The Inquisition is extremely reactionary. Much of what happens, happens away from the Inquisitor who has to deal with the aftermath.

Bioware clearly showed quite a bit. Hell, choosing between mage and templars means you will not be present for one of those stories. So we only see the effects of that choice through the subtle shifts in our Inquisituon and the enemy. You should not expect an overblown cutscene to blatantly spell it out for you. This is not about show v tell... You just wanted a different story.

[Al Foley]

So? Tons of games show beheadings does that discount a cutscene if it shows that? The trenches of bodies were directly connected to the zone and the events that have happened recently... It was showing you quite a bit. You just wanted an hour long cutscene showing the battle and the survivors placing the bodies into the trenches. Again, you don't like the fact that the Inquisitor isn't present for these events, but that is not a reasonable expectation. The Inquisition is extremely reactionary. Much of what happens, happens away from the Inquisitor who has to deal with the aftermath.

Bioware clearly showed quite a bit. Hell, choosing between mage and templars means you will not be present for one of those stories. So we only see the effects of that choice through the subtle shifts in our Inquisituon and the enemy. You should not expect an overblown cutscene to blatantly spell it out for you. This is not about show v tell... You just wanted a different story.

Which is fine.  But comes down to a matter of personal taste and not anything BioWare did wrong. 

[Kabraxal]

Which is fine. But comes down to a matter of personal taste and not anything BioWare did wrong.

Wish more people would accept that.

And I'd assume ME:A will have far more focus on the character being the main drive of events and less reactionary. ME was a mix of both really.

[Al Foley]

Wish more people would accept that.

I'm one of those weirdos who seem to like both stories and styles just fine.  Really epic large scale big adventures and really down to earth nitty gritty character pieces.  Inquisition is my favorite game of all time yet I loved DA 2 and the news about Ryder I have heard so far is causing me to salivate. 

[Fixers0]

Nothing wrong with telling though, some of the best scenes in fiction are just conversations between characters.

[Kabraxal]

I'm one of those weirdos who seem to like both stories and styles just fine.  Really epic large scale big adventures and really down to earth nitty gritty character pieces.  Inquisition is my favorite game of all time yet I loved DA 2 and the news about Ryder I have heard so far is causing me to salivate.

I enjoy both as well, though Bioware always nails the character content which is my priority so either style they choose will likely work because of that solid foundation. They just went above and beyond in Dragon Age as a whole to create a workd that truly feels like it has history and character itself.

[Dutch's Ghost]

DAI was utter crap, I can make a long list of why it sucked and was a disappointment.

[FKA_Servo]

DAI was utter crap, I can make a long list of why it sucked and was a disappointment.

 

You and Jazz should hook up. You could move somewhere extremely isolated and make bad threads together.

[Kabraxal]

Nothing wrong with telling though, some of the best scenes in fiction are just conversations between characters.

One of the most powerful and influential TV scenes in history is the character delivering news to the rest... It might be more powerful that we never saw the death since it placed ud in the same state as the rest of the characters.

[Maia]

Compromise?

The PC keyboard and mouse controls are unacceptable. End of story. It's fine if they wanted to add support for a PC controller as well. I don't see why that must ruin another set of controls.

they done alot of fixes, the mouse and keyboard controls is perfectly doable, though the tac cam could still use some fixing

[Stakrin]

Yeah, I don't think bioware will actually say homophobic things. Even if it's the bad guys doing it, people will say bioware is promoting an anti-SJW agenda (and others will say bioware is going too far with a SJW agenda). But I do think it would be more powerful.

That said; it can also make storytelling weak.

Say one guy is a bad guy because he killed an unarmed civilian-go figure that the civilian was going to unknowingly activate a bomb but didn't listen when warned; he had no choice! He could have handled t differently, he doesn't regret it, either way it put him at odds with the police-because law. Now we can either arrest him for life (knowing he will force us to kill him), or betray the law and also get arrested-never being able to complete our mission.

So this story isn't great because I made it up as I went along-but at least there's some grey, that's what I meant to show.

Same guy now also tells someone he is a...well a British cigar. And suddenly, we don't need to know what he did or why he is bad-he is just a bad guy lets kill him!

It's a very weak and boring way to show "look this is the bad guy! You don't like him, right?"

[Majestic Jazz]

In regards to the OP, BioWare has always been rather family friendly and politically correct, even if they try to rock the boat with regard to sexual orientation and romance. I can never see them being as blunt as CDPR, but at the same time I'm not sure that approach really works for Mass Effect. It's fine in the realistic dark fantasy The Witcher franchise lives in, but it's not necessarily appropriate for a space opera like Mass Effect.

Not that discrimination and bigotry shouldn't be present, but this game is more about exploration and survival.

Good points. I agree, Bioware is like the Marvel Cinematic Universe when it comes to the tone of their games in comparison to that of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and The Witcher 3 which is more like DC Cinematic Universe which are more darker in the tone of their themes and narrative and not afraid to take on issues head on.

Bioware games like Mass Effect are rated M due to violence and sexual content. But in terms of tone, Bioware treats us with kids gloves. They shy alway from the details of politics. They shy away from the horrors of war. They even shy away from depicting racism, sexism, and homophobia in a mature manner. Hell, in the Dragon Age Universe outside of the Qunari, there is zero sexism and even that was retconned in DAI. It is is as if we "can't handle" such content so the tone of their games always takes a very mild perspective on such issues. They are brought up, but never explore the details, just what's on the surface....very simplistic.

This is what I fear with MEA. If you really think about it, MEA has the room to discuss some things such as the social/cultural/environmental affects of colonization. I mean, if you look at European colonization throughout history, it was not conducted in the most humane way. It is most of the time done through deception, force, and even war.

My fear is that with MEA, Bioware will just ignore all those themes. When humans (or any other Milky Way race) meets/discovers the native race on a planet, how will that be handled? Will Bioware....the family friendly politically correct Bioware explore such scenarios in a realistic manner? Or will it be white washed and skimmed over because we might be offended?

This brings me back to my question. If such topics are explored, will we actually see it....experience it....participate in it?

OR

Will we just passively experience it through "notes, journals, letters, and codex entries"?

[Cyonan]

Good points. I agree, Bioware is like the Marvel Cinematic Universe when it comes to the tone of their games in comparison to that of Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and The Witcher 3 which is more like DC Cinematic Universe which are more darker in the tone of their themes and narrative and not afraid to take on issues head on.

 

Do you really want to compare TW3 to the company that made Batman v Superman?

[Applepie_Svk]

One of the MANY failures of DAI was that it had a narrative that was driven by telling the player things about the world rather than showing them. We got a lot of notes, letters, and journals that painted the picture of racism, affects of war, and discrimination but yet we didn't get to actually see much of it. When we did, it was very... PG and watered down as if we are not mature enough to handle such content. I mean....the game was rated M for Mature after all but yet Bioware seemed as if showing such content to give more emphasis to the narrative was too much for us, so they hid it in notes....journals....and letters.

This is a contrast to Witcher 3 in which CDT Project Red did not shy away from showing us the brutal images of war, the sexism, homophobia, and other forms of discrimination. We were treated like adults with TW3 whend it came to consuming such themes and content.

So with MEA, do you think the tone would once again be watered down and hidden through text? Or do you think MEA will have a much more mature tone and actually show us such things rather than simply tell us about them?

 

It´s quite tragic, because the first DA:O went into some realy dark stuff, I would even say that they went far deeper than with any of Mass Effect games or DA. ME2 tried to go through more personal level of emotions, however DA:O still touched subjects which other titles either ignored or only touched on surface. 

 

DA:I went with SJW circlejerk so far that all the good about deep and dark storytelling went into this goofy weakminded stuff, which tried to look not offensive towards the PC police, however it was offensive on various levels of ignorance towards the own lore. 

[Majestic Jazz]

Do you really want to compare TW3 to the company that made Batman v Superman?

I am not talking about quality of their films. I am talking about their approach to a darker tone.

[MattFini]

One of the MANY failures of DAI was that it had a narrative that was driven by telling the player things about the world rather than showing them. We got a lot of notes, letters, and journals that painted the picture of racism, affects of war, and discrimination but yet we didn't get to actually see much of it. When we did, it was very... PG and watered down as if we are not mature enough to handle such content. I mean....the game was rated M for Mature after all but yet Bioware seemed as if showing such content to give more emphasis to the narrative was too much for us, so they hid it in notes....journals....and letters.

This is a contrast to Witcher 3 in which CDT Project Red did not shy away from showing us the brutal images of war, the sexism, homophobia, and other forms of discrimination. We were treated like adults with TW3 whend it came to consuming such themes and content.

So with MEA, do you think the tone would once again be watered down and hidden through text? Or do you think MEA will have a much more mature tone and actually show us such things rather than simply tell us about them?

 

I don't want MEA to be anything like DAI. 

[CronoDragoon]

Nothing wrong with telling though, some of the best scenes in fiction are just conversations between characters.

 

This isn't "telling" either...

 

Show Don't Tell

[AlanC9]

A brief synopsis of this thread: MajesticJazz complains about DA:I's alleged failings yet again, praises TW3 over everything it does yet again, and basically goes "Gee, will BW do x/y/z just like TW3? Because they should since TW3 and CD Projekt Red are the greatest things since sliced bread and BW should do everything CDPR does!" for the umpteenth time.
 
The End!

We should have a week where every forum regular comes in and posts as one of the other regulars.