145 réponses à ce sujet

[Jedi Comedian]

But humans are jerks, so please can that be reflected somewhat instead of them being the master, perfect race?!

Truer words were never spoken.

If anything I want the Arks free of Human scum.

[Medhia_Nox]

Emotion is just emotion, it's not unique to a species. Any organic species with higher brain functions should be capable of showing the same array of emotions us Humans do unless the lore explains why they're different like Vulcans in Star Trek.

 

The only exception would be robots, but I can pull the act off pretty well if I wish. I can sort of suppress emotions for a time.

 

1)  We have no idea what emotion is.

 

2)  We have nothing to compare your assertion about aliens to.

 

3)  We have no idea how an AI would respond to its experience of the universe.

 

Yes, of course we can, do and should make guesses... using our imaginations to come up with all sorts of ideas and concepts for these things, but at the end of the day that's all they are - ideas.  Ideas from a human perspective.

[Laughing_Man]

I'm rather neutral about the subject.

 

Playing as Krogan or Asari could be fun, both have a rather unique viewpoint on everything for different reasons, their longevity is part of it.

(the other "Aliens" feel even more like humans of certain types)

 

But Bioware's handling of this potential during DA:I was lacking, it also caused problems with the cinematic aspect which in turn led to less cut-scenes. 

[Laughing_Man]

1)  We have no idea what emotion is.

 

On the biological level it's a chemical reaction. On a philosophical level it rather depends on your favorite theory.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm rather neutral about the subject.

 

Playing as Krogan or Asari could be fun, both have a rather unique viewpoint on everything for different reasons, their longevity is part of it.

(the other "Aliens" feel even more like humans of certain types)

 

But Bioware's handling of this potential during DA:I was lacking, it also caused problems with the cinematic aspect which in turn led to less cut-scenes. 

Bioware was always going to go that route with the less cinematic cutscenes and more what we had with Inquisition. They said that in one of the interviews. 

[Laughing_Man]

Bioware was always going to go that route with the less cutscene cutscenes and more what we had with Inquisition. They said that in one of the interviews. 

 

They can say anything after the fact, especially if it's to placate someone somehow.

 

The reality is that more races add more work for cut-scenes therefore making those more difficult.

[Cyonan]

1)  We have no idea what emotion is.

 

2)  We have nothing to compare your assertion about aliens to.

 

3)  We have no idea how an AI would respond to its experience of the universe.

 

Yes, of course we can, do and should make guesses... using our imaginations to come up with all sorts of ideas and concepts for these things, but at the end of the day that's all they are - ideas.  Ideas from a human perspective.

 

That's why I acknowledged that I do bring some of my own perspective to it. One can never 100% remove the Human element, but I think you can still get pretty close with practice.

 

That said I do try to stick to the lore as much as possible with those species and try to have some kind of logical argument behind why things are how they are.

 

So you want don't want to be a human? What do you want to be? A pig? You want to turn into a prawn from D9?

 

I don't see the need to change what I am just because I don't like what others of the same species as me are doing, I'm simply not going to be proud of it.

 

I have more pride in being Canadian than I do Human, because being Canadian actually means something to me.

[Reorte]

I'm definitely in agreement with not everything revolving around humans, which was really overdone in Mass Effect. I'm fine with only being able to play as a human, but in a convincing setting where we're just part of something larger. We were newcomers in ME and should've been a minor component. Even playing as a human managing to make a mark in that is fine, just as long as the whole "aren't we great?" stuff is dropped.

[Gwydden]

Emotion is just emotion, it's not unique to a species. Any organic species with higher brain functions should be capable of showing the same array of emotions us Humans do unless the lore explains why they're different like Vulcans in Star Trek.

 

The only exception would be robots, but I can pull the act off pretty well if I wish. I can sort of suppress emotions for a time.

I did specify human emotions. And realistically, emotions are just chemistry and a being from another planet is bound to have drastically different brain chemistry from a human. Also realistically, an AI would not only lack emotions. It would also lack desires, opinions, interests, free will and of course it wouldn't care about any of those things. It would just follow its programming in the most effective way possible. At that point, I'd say one could argue it's not even roleplaying anymore.

 

But of course, that's not how aliens and robots are depicted in much of science fiction, ME included. They're humanized... to make them more interesting. Ironic, right? I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting to roleplay an alien (after all, this is just one man's opinion), I'm just saying I don't see the point of pretending I'm playing as something other than a human when I'm not, as something "different" (but only minor differences, of course) just for the sake of being different. I find it to be a pointless conceit that fails to fully explore either humanity or alieness. I don't have a problem against some fanservice here and there, but this particular kind is very, very bad for a story.

[Revan Reborn]

I don't mind playing as a human, and I agree with the OP about why should play as a human protag.

But playing as a human, and the entire story propelling humanity above the other species like ME3 did, are two different things, and I do NOT want a repeat of the latter.

We are all entering this new galaxy together, so all the species really should be on a more equal footing to a certain extent (I am interested to see how the krogan and salarian may work together). I dont want the humans to be the centre of every little thing, to be the leaders and to be the instigators of everything and just the same epicentre special nonsense.

It comes off as uber patriotic and its like Michael Bay had a say in it (we need more humans!).

Yes to human protag, I'm fine with it and not being an alien.

But humans are jerks, so please can that be reflected somewhat instead of them being the master, perfect race?!

I agree entirely. Although, this thread is not meant to address the issue of "human exceptionalism" that seemed to be prevalent in ME2 and ME3. My point is that playing solely from the human perspective is not a bad thing. In fact, in many ways it's a very good thing. That being said, I would love to see a more collaborative effort among species rather than humans leading the charge every step of the way. Then again, Shepard was nothing without his/her crew, and not everybody on the Normandy was human.

[Armass81]

Well to eb fair, aliens in ME arent really all that unrelatable, maybe rachni, geth, hanar and elcor are, but most are like humans. "It was Vyrnnus who made me see how human aliens are. They're not different or special, they're jerks or saints. Just like us." --- Kaidan Alenko

 

And if this was so true as op says, then why do we have race choices in some games?

 

Wow, TOR for example? Almost any roleplaying tabletop game you can mention has these too, and what requires more character roleplay from players than those?

 

(Altough in tor its just humans with different colored skin basically.)

 

The thing is to some people choice is good, it matters, theyre already humans in their everyday lives and they can never be alien in real life, except to other aliens. So whats wrong with a bit of variety, its the spice of life after all.

[The Dystopian Hound]

That's why I acknowledged that I do bring some of my own perspective to it. One can never 100% remove the Human element, but I think you can still get pretty close with practice.

That said I do try to stick to the lore as much as possible with those species and try to have some kind of logical argument behind why things are how they are.


I don't see the need to change what I am just because I don't like what others of the same species as me are doing, I'm simply not going to be proud of it.

I have more pride in being Canadian than I do Human, because being Canadian actually means something to me.

I get that, I have pride in being American even though my country is becoming a cesspool of fascism. but in something like mass effect where there are different races would you not have pride in your own?

[Felya87]

Meh. I don't like much play a human character. Usually humans are the default race, with no malus involved, Always the better/more important race etc. Etc.
Expecially in BioWare games.

I was happy that in ME1 humans were the new ones in the galaxy, I liked that they weren't considered anything special, that they weren't superior to anyone, but eere inferior to Others, more experienced and old races.
Of Course, by the end of ME1 humans were already part of the council, and At the head of the galaxy like older races. Blah. Human Special Snowflake At its purest is what are the Others games. In ME2 humans are so special that reapers want to use them to create a new reaper, and in ME3 humans are so special every race must leave their people to die to help Earth. Still can't really see why of that.

Quite frankly, since we have to play again a human, I hope at least that there will not be again that heavy "human are special" stuff.

[Laughing_Man]

Also realistically, an AI would not only lack emotions. It would also lack desires, opinions, interests, free will and of course it wouldn't care about any of those things. It would just follow its programming in the most effective way possible.

 

Not necessarily, what you are describing is more a piece of software than a self-aware entity.

 

Should a digital entity capable of self-learning and adapting to new conditions become aware of itself, it will probably require motivations of some sort.

Its basic programming might not be enough if it is capable of evolving and adapting.

[Hair Serious Business]

So you want don't want to be a human? What do you want to be? A pig? You want to turn into a prawn from D9?

 

Humans are boring.

I want to be jetpack 

[The Dystopian Hound]

Humans are boring.
I want to be jetpack

Humans have jet pack in MEA.

[Reorte]

1)  We have no idea what emotion is.

 

2)  We have nothing to compare your assertion about aliens to.

 

3)  We have no idea how an AI would respond to its experience of the universe.

 

Yes, of course we can, do and should make guesses... using our imaginations to come up with all sorts of ideas and concepts for these things, but at the end of the day that's all they are - ideas.  Ideas from a human perspective.

They're not complete guesses though, they're guesses based on logic. You say we have no idea what emotion is but think about why we have it, evolutionary pressures and so on. Unless the environment they evolved in was radically different some emotions will no doubt be very similar - fear is a basic emotion and instinct that gets us out of trouble without us having to think about it for example. So whilst that is all no doubt going to be rather influenced by a human perspective it is not reasonable to say that it's a complete guess that probaby won't bear any resemblence at all to what some intelligent alien being might be like.

 

AIs are a rather interesting area to think about, and again not one that you can say for definite "not a clue!" about. Consider the background of the AI etc. and you'll start to get some ideas about why it might be like it is. Would it have something akin to emotion for example? It's emotion that provides the motivation to do much of what we do (we wouldn't really care less otherwise), beyond basic physical drives, and even then the dividing line is arguably blurry. Why should an AI even care about its own exitence? Think about all of those and you can start to create something that is fairly alien yet plausible, even if, as I said above, inevitably somewhat human-biased.

[Cyonan]

I did specify human emotions. And realistically, emotions are just chemistry and a being from another planet is bound to have drastically different brain chemistry from a human. Also realistically, an AI would not only lack emotions. It would also lack desires, opinions, interests, free will and of course it wouldn't care about any of those things. It would just follow its programming in the most effective way possible. At that point, I'd say one could argue it's not even roleplaying anymore.

 

But of course, that's not how aliens and robots are depicted in much of science fiction, ME included. They're humanized... to make them more interesting. Ironic, right? I'm not saying you're wrong for wanting to roleplay an alien (after all, this is just one man's opinion), I'm just saying I don't see the point of pretending I'm playing as something other than a human when and not, as something "different" (but only minor differences, of course) just for the sake of being different. I find it to be a pointless conceit that fails to fully explore either humanity or alieness. I don't have a problem against some fanservice here and there, but this particular kind is very, very bad for a story.

 

I say emotion is emotion because my current estimation is that any organic species capable of higher thought processes will likely have the same array of emotions. My theory would be that "human emotion" isn't really a thing, but we currently only have 1 species with those higher thought processes to work with right now so we can't exactly prove or disprove that theory right now.

 

It would depend on the AI, because AI is simply code. If the programmer wrote the AI to have emotions, it would at the very least emulate those emotions. If it's supposed to be a being of pure logic, I can work with that and of course such a character would not have desires or opinions or interests. They would have what the most logical course of action is.

 

The personal bias for such a character comes in where the "most logical course of action" would of course by my most logical course of action with all the emotion taken out of it.

 

I do agree that the alien races are often "humanized", though I often find it an interesting thought experiment if nothing else to try to think like something completely alien when given the chance.

 

Of course it requires a setting that has species where the creator attempted to avoid humanizing them as much as possible.

 

In either case as much as I prefer to play as something other than Human when given the chance, I'm not going to break out the pitch fork over ME:A being Human only =P

[Laughing_Man]

The main problem with the "Humans are Special" trope in ME is that it didn't make sense logically.

 

Humans shouldn't have been able to reach the technology level of the rest so quickly, and if they did, it should have alarmed everyone greatly.

They shouldn't have reached such an influencial position on the galactic stage so quickly either, not realistically anyway.

 

Humans should have been the underdog, and an organization like Cerberus should have been aimed at keeping humanity's head above the water so to speak, rather than the ridiculous notion of taking over the galaxy. 

[Cyonan]

I get that, I have pride in being American even though my country is becoming a cesspool of fascism. but in something like mass effect where there are different races would you not have pride in your own?

 

Typically in a game one of two things will happen:

 

1. I'm trying to roleplay so I'm more getting into the mind set of what my character ought to be as I've defined it, which may or may not include being prideful of their species. I'm not prideful of my species but if I'm playing a character that is, I can act like it.

 

2. I'm not trying to RP and I'm mostly just focused on gameplay mechanics.

[The Dystopian Hound]

We humans. We advance quickly.

[Reorte]

The personal bias for such a character comes in where the "most logical course of action" would of course by my most logical course of action with all the emotion taken out of it.

Without emotion why is doing anything logical? The logical course of action to achieve the desired outcome, yet the very word "desired" implies emotion. Without that, and unless overridden by some hardcoded goals, I see no reason for an AI to bother doing anything at all.

[Hair Serious Business]

Humans have jet pack in MEA.

 

Having something and being something is not same 

[Arcian]

This has always been a topic many on these forums seem to despise. They don't want to play as a white person. They didn't like how "white-centric" ME2 and ME3 became. There are so many other ethnicities worth exploring and playing that we shouldn't limit ourselves to the white experience.
 
I'll tell you why that understanding is wrong and why BioWare will never endorse it. Mass Effect doesn't make any sense without the white lens. There is nothing to ground us in this franchise without having some form or relatability. Mass Effect has also always been about the underdog story and trying to make something out of oneself.
 
MEA may not be a sequel to the ME trilogy, but it's a spiritual successor in every sense of the word as it's going back to the fundamentals of what Mass Effect stands for: Exploration, Discovery, Survival, and the White Experience.
 
While Mass Effect may have many other ethnicities and deals with intergalactic issues, it's still very much a white tale. Mac Walters has already stated MEA will maintain that understanding, and it doesn't appear that Mass Effect will ever change course.
 
I don't personally see anything wrong with that. On the contrary, I think Mass Effect is far more interesting understanding these other ethnicities through the white person's eye, rather than BioWare trying to make some compelling tale from a perspective we can never understand or fully appreciate. We are white. It only makes sense to embrace that to further enhance the storytelling in Mass Effect.

I've taken the liberty to change around the words in this post to demonstrate why it's a bullsh!t argument.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

We humans. We advance quickly.

You probably should use complete, grammatically correct sentences when trying to express how we advance quickly. That's just a tip for next time.