And I'm sure you've done loads for the advancement and betterment of humanity right?
I do what I can to help people within my capacity. One person with limited resources can only do so much, but it seems most people would rather post on Facebook about how somebody else should do something rather than trying to make a difference themselves.
I can't really get too much into it without getting political, which I don't care to do on the BSN.
Just a bunch of crybabies who think denouncing humanity as evil and greedy makes for a better arguement as to why they should get to play as an alien in a video game.
Well - as a misanthrope who doesn't want to play an alien I feel positively left out.
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Which is why I believe it's important to highlight this distinction and why BioWare shouldn't just bundle the idea of a "human perspective" with "human exceptionalism." I think the former is incredibly crucial towards the storytelling, identity, and underpinnings of Mass Effect. However, I think the latter can be limiting, destructive, and cheapen the overall universe if BioWare relies on conceited, idealistic principles of human superiority over nature.
I do not like Star Trek and I have started not to like Halo for the very reasons that humanity is the center of the universe. I find that incredibly lazy storytelling and very uninteresting as a backdrop. What actually grabbed me into Mass Effect was the fact that humanity was NOT at the top of the food chain. Rather, we were newcomers and we had to gain respect from the rest of the galaxy. That was an interesting spin on things and hopefully we'll get some of that going into Andromeda.
Ideally, what I'm hoping for is a collaborative effort of the Milky Way species as we go into Andromeda. While that human perspective is still key for the audience and the story, I don't want humans running the show. We need diversity. We need inclusion. We need the presence of a truly varied and unique team that isn't dominated by any species. It's a seesaw effect in a sense. But, there has to be give and take and BioWare needs to find the perfect balance of making a relatable story, yet one that doesn't limit or cheapen the experience of exploring a new galaxy.
There is absolutely nothing inherently human about the mass effect setting. This is evident by the fact that there were plenty of interesting things that have happened in the history that have nothing to do with humans. Saying it NEEDS to be told from a human perspective is also puzzling. The aliens they have are in no way so alien that a player cannot easily relate to them and understand their motives. I can't even see where the OP is coming from in this reagrd.
I personally thought this would be an excellent chance to introduce non-human choices as everyone is looking for a new home from the same starting point. Voice acting is always a problem that would lead to either less immersion or a greater cost. There are clever development ways to lessen that however. As it stands they want to do a story with a family, and that obviously makes it much more difficult. Hopefully in the future we will finally be able to play one of the aliens.
And yet, I guarantee that you cannot roleplay a non-humanoid without projecting human emotions and biases. So basically, you end up with a human disguised as a whatsitsface. Roleplaying, in my mind, is a work of empathy. Roleplaying something truly alien is impossible as empathy is not possible.
Then we can be glad that neither in ME nor in any other fictional setting with different intelligent species do we find truly alien perspectives. What we call aliens, elves, dwarves, etc. are just human constructs created by human writers to express human ideas and to tell human stories.
Our lack of ability to understand non-human perspectives is inconsequential, because that's not what we're trying to do. Otherwise, it would be equally impossible for Bioware to write their own alien/elf/dwarf characters.
I don't mind a human protagonist in ME:A because I'm used to it from the previous trilogy and resources can be spent somewhere else, but I'm one of those definitely in favour of the return of playable races in Dragon Age and I would have enjoyed equally the chance to play an alien in ME:A. One of the pleasures of roleplaying is precisely forcing yourself to experience different perspectives and trying to look at the world from a different point of view you didn't consider before. Saying it's impossible to do it with ME aliens is the same as saying it's impossible to do it with fictional human constructs, which would render null and void any roleplaying in existence.
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Then you don't know what Mass Effect is. It's as simple as that. I mean no disrespect, but even BioWare has articulated that Mass Effect is very much a human story and trying to fit into this larger galaxy. Without the human perspective, it's no longer Mass Effect. It's just generic science fiction with a slightly different spin on things than other franchises of the same medium. What makes Mass Effect unique is this human perspective largely from the role of an underdog.
What you need to understand is that everything you know about Mass Effect is through this human lens. It's how we understand all these events, the history, and much more. We get glimpses of other perspectives in the game, but the predominant understanding of Mass Effect is always through the human eye. The issue is that it's so subtle and has always been the perspective we've seen, I believe some don't even realize it while playing the games.
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This has nothing to do with roleplaying. This is a matter of the universe making sense and being legitimate. Mass Effect was built on the foundation of the human lens. Everything we did in the trilogy was from the perspective of humans and no one else. Every other species was merely an outsider we could learn about, mainly through codex. But, we could never truly understand these other species nor should we try to. That's not the point of Mass Effect. The point of Mass Effect is to explore new worlds, discover alien civilizations, and how humanity grapples with these scenarios. That's what the games were built on.
Mass Effect was never built to be a franchise in which we analyze from various perspectives that are not human. That misses the entire premise of what Mass Effect is. It's much more about human interaction with these others species and how that impacts humanity, the galaxy at large, and how we react to it as a result. These other species certainly enhance and bring more variety to the galaxy, but they were never meant to be the focus. It's why, however, they are a perfect fit as companions because we can get a glimpse into their lives through the human lens, which was the case with Shepard helping his various alien companions.
We always saw everything through the human perspective. Unless BioWare wants to fundamentally change what Mass Effect was built on, there is absolutely no valid reason to disengage from the human perspective. To do so would be to alter the premise of Mass Effect so intrinsically that BioWare could unintentionally ruin it.
This has nothing to do with roleplaying. This is a matter of the universe making sense and being legitimate. Mass Effect was built on the foundation of the human lens. Everything we did in the trilogy was from the perspective of humans and no one else. Every other species was merely an outsider we could learn about, mainly through codex. But, we could never truly understand these other species nor should we try to. That's not the point of Mass Effect. The point of Mass Effect is to explore new worlds, discover alien civilizations, and how humanity grapples with these scenarios. That's what the games were built on.
Mass Effect was never built to be a franchise in which we analyze from various perspectives that are not human. That misses the entire premise of what Mass Effect is. It's much more about human interaction with these others species and how that impacts humanity, the galaxy at large, and how we react to it as a result. These other species certainly enhance and bring more variety to the galaxy, but they were never meant to be the focus. It's why, however, they are a perfect fit as companions because we can get a glimpse into their lives through the human lens, which was the case with Shepard helping his various alien companions.
We always saw everything through the human perspective. Unless BioWare wants to fundamentally change what Mass Effect was built on, there is absolutely no valid reason to disengage from the human perspective. To do so would be to alter the premise of Mass Effect so intrinsically that BioWare could unintentionally ruin it.
You say it yourself. "Everything we did in the trilogy was from the perspective of humans and no one else". I admit that changing the lens in the middle of ME-ME3 would have been a great mistake and a complete disservice to the established narrative. However, what you assume for the setting as a whole, I only assume for a single story. Shepard's story.
The setting is big enough to give room to different points of view, especially given that other material (like the comics) has already provided us with Bioware-made in-universe alien perspectives. So there's already some precedent and the very basis of ME:A is a complete change of setting, so whatever the writers intended in ME-ME3 doesn't have to apply necessarily to the new story they want to tell. If it does (as it's the case), it's because the writers chose so, not because there was any kind of narrative imperative.
By the way, using your argument, doesn't that mean Bioware made a big mistake by only allowing a human protagonist in DA2?
You say it yourself. "Everything we did in the trilogy was from the perspective of humans and no one else". I admit that changing the lens in the middle of ME-ME3 would have been a great mistake and a complete disservice to the established narrative. However, what you assume for the setting as a whole, I only assume for a single story. Shepard's story.
The setting is big enough to give room to different points of view, especially given that other material (like the comics) has already provided us with Bioware-made in-universe alien perspectives. So there's already some precedent and the very basis of ME:A is a complete change of setting, so whatever the writers intended in ME-ME3 doesn't have to apply necessarily to the new story they want to tell. If it does (as it's the case), it's because the writers chose so, not because there was any kind of narrative imperative.
By the way, using your argument, doesn't that mean Bioware made a big mistake by only allowing a human protagonist in DA2?
This isn't my "assumption," however. This is the precedent that was established by BioWare and Mac Walters, Creative Director on MEA as well as co-writer on ME2 and lead writer on ME3, has already stated at this year's E3 that the human perspective is still very much the focus of the series. Of course Shepard's story was solely from the human perspective, because Mass Effect, up until this point, was solely the Shepard story.
Considering other perspectives is ultimately up to the discretion of BioWare. But again, the writers and creative directors of the series have put the human perspective as the focus since the very beginning, and again that's not changing with Andromeda. Certainly there are novels and comics that further expand upon other perspectives that aren't human, but those are mere supplements and nothing more. Unless Mac Walters changes his mind, I don't believe we'll ever see a Mass Effect game in which there is a protagonist who isn't human.
Comparing Mass Effect to Dragon Age is comparing apples to oranges. Mass Effect was always built on the foundation of humans being the underdog and making their place in this advanced, greater, intergalactic community. In Dragon Age, we have the world of Thedas dominated by men, but there are still dwarves, elves, and qunari present. The perspective Dragon Age has largely been shown from is less the human perspective and more so the Southern Thedas perspective, as we've been in the South (Ferelden, Orlais, and the Free Marches) all this time. Hawke and his family were from Lothering and they migrated to Kirkwall to escape the blight, so that hardly contradicts the foundation set in place by Origins.
It's also erroneous to compare Mass Effect and Dragon Age as the former was a continuous trilogy from the perspective of the same human, representing all of humanity. Whereas each Dragon Age is a separate, standalone tale that follows different heroes with varying motivations and challenges. Dragon Age is much more focused on regional conflicts and history whereas Mass Effect has always been about humanity's place in the galaxy.
Wait, do people think ME1 was less human centric than ME2 and ME3?
Mmm no you can still play other races and not have any issues with needing to be grounded or ability to relate. I mean in DAO and DAI I rarely play as a human. I never had a hard time relating to my character. **** there is someone here who lost their **** when I talked about my annoyance of asari. They seemed to relate just fine to those blue space babes. I don't disagree that ME is a human focused game (and will likely always be), but your reasoning is frankly ****. That being said I really don't care to play anyone else aside from humans in ME. There would just not be enough variation in looks in the CC. I mean look at the qunari they are still very human looking, but lacked so many options....the races in ME wouldn't even stand a chance. Plus I like to play hot characters. So that matters to me.
Playable aliens like the Asari and Turians would be a waste (IMO). They're too similar to humans to make playing as one represent any meaningful distinction aside from basic appearance.
Now, if the game where to have playable Hanar, or Rachni then you could legitimately have a drastically different playthrough because of how different those species are from us in terms of appearance, biology, movement animations, speech patterns, and the very 'alien' perspective they would have on the universe compared to humans.
That is never going to happen for a single player campaign though. I I will have to continue to hold out hope that these races will be added to the multiplayer roster for ME:A.
Wait, do people think ME1 was less human centric than ME2 and ME3?
Mass Effect was always about humanity. People just don't like how the overarching story became so focused around humanity because of Cerberus, the Human Reaper, and then the invasion on Earth first. As I have said earlier, the human perspective is crucial for the Mass Effect identity. What is not is the "human exceptionalism" that many claim detracted from ME2 and ME3.
Wait, do people think ME1 was less human centric than ME2 and ME3?
It wasn't, but it at least had the benefit of the various aliens being 'alien' (thanks entirely to Chris L'Etoile) and them having a relatively large amount of screen time compared to the subsequent titles.
The whole notion of "under dog" humanity achieving in less than thirty years, what other species had taken centuries to do was ridiculous, and heavily flavored with "Humans are Special", but at least there were a lot of 'alien' aliens to see and interact with. The following games cut back on that 'alien' element (and making several of the uniqe species into shallow running gags), while ramping up the human element.
Playable aliens like the Asari and Turians would be a waste (IMO). They're too similar to humans to make playing as one represent any meaningful distinction aside from basic appearance.
Now, if the game where to have playable Hanar, or Rachni then you could legitimately have a drastically different playthrough because of how different those species are from us in terms of appearance, biology, movement animations, speech patterns, and the very 'alien' perspective they would have on the universe compared to humans.
That is never going to happen for a single player campaign though. I I will have to continue to hold out hope that these races will be added to the multiplayer roster for ME:A.
While that would be much further towards achieving the goal of truly creating an alien perspective in order to view the universe of Mass Effect through, it would quickly turn many folks away from the franchise. As you stated, Asari, Turians, Quarians, and Salarians are too much like humans. Even Krogans are very humanoid in their behaviors, desires, and motivations. Having any of these species, which are honestly the main series aliens, would merely lead to a diluted experience that is nothing more than a human with a different face. Much like how races were handled in DAI, it would be purely cosmetic and ultimately be a waste of resources as it would add very little in terms of a differing perspective or actual depth.
Folks may not admit it, but Mass Effect simply would not make sense and cannot be grounded without the human perspective. That is the foundation for which this franchise was built on and to try and change it into something else would no longer be Mass Effect. This was always about the human experience and I just can't see that ever changing.
Just a bunch of crybabies who think denouncing humanity as evil and greedy makes for a better arguement as to why they should get to play as an alien in a video game.
I'm sure in your own mind you have a clear position, but I am having difficulty understanding it. This point you just made contradicts your opening argument. The aliens are either too relateable or not relateable enough.
I'll tell you why that understanding is wrong and why BioWare will never endorse it. Mass Effect doesn't make any sense without the human lens. There is nothing to ground us in this franchise without having some form or relatability.
While that would be much further towards achieving the goal of truly creating an alien perspective in order to view the universe of Mass Effect through, it would quickly turn many folks away from the franchise. As you stated, Asari, Turians, Quarians, and Salarians are too much like humans. Even Krogans are very humanoid in their behaviors, desires, and motivations.
And just because something hasn't been done before, in the single story they have already told, in no way means it shouldn't be done in the next story. In fact differences should be encouraged.
I'm sure in your own mind you have a clear position, but I am having difficulty understanding it. This point you just made contradicts your opening argument. The aliens are either too relateable or not relateable enough.
And just because something hasn't been done before, in the single story they have already told, in no way means it shouldn't be done in the next story. In fact differences should be encouraged.
You misconstrue my argument then. My point is Mass Effect has always been told from the human perspective. The species I listed are examples of aliens who are far more human than actually alien as it already stands. If you tried to base a game around one of these aliens as the protagonist, you inevitably dilute what makes them alien and they become more "human" as a result. For one, because the writer has a human bias, but largely because the games have always been told from the human perspective. What ensues is either a game in which appearance is purely cosmetic regardless of what alien you are or the writers try to make the perspective so alien that it no longer resembles Mass Effect.
Thus, the best way to actually ensure these species maintain some semblance of being "alien" without making Mass Effect into something it is not is to avoid trying to build a story around their perspective. Aliens are fine as companions to help supplement and broaden the diversity of the game, but they will never work as the lead in the story due to the simple fact that Mass Effect was built on the human lens interpreting the galaxy and these various species.
So you accept that we would be able to relate to a non-human playable character?
So you accept that we would be able to relate to a non-human playable character?
No. I don't think you are understanding my point. Here's the deal. We cannot comprehend something that we are not. Thus, the only way we'd be able to make sense of an alien is to make it more human. That would be diluting the species and thus making it less "alien" because of the need to have a human perspective in order to ground us in the Mass Effect universe.
There is no way to have an authentic asari experience or any of the other council species. The franchise was built from the ground up with a human perspective and BioWare nor we would be able to truly grasp or appreciate another perspective anyway. It's much more convincing on their part to have these other aliens as background and supporting cast because they are never the main focus.
This would allow BioWare to maintain the human perspective on the main protagonist while having enough variety around him/her to create what would appear to us as unique, foreign, and alien. We can never relate to an actual alien, which is why trying to relate to one would be erroneous, poor storytelling, and would detract from what makes Mass Effect what it is: the human understanding of the galaxy.
No. I don't think you are understanding my point. Here's the deal. We cannot comprehend something that we are not. Thus, the only way we'd be able to make sense of an alien is to make it more human. That would be diluting the species and thus making it less "alien" because of the need to have a human perspective in order to ground us in the Mass Effect universe.
There is no way to have an authentic asari experience or any of the other council species. The franchise was built from the ground up with a human perspective and BioWare nor we would be able to truly grasp or appreciate another perspective anyway. It's much more convincing on their part to have these other aliens as background and supporting cast because they are never the main focus.
This would allow BioWare to maintain the human perspective on the main protagonist while having enough variety around him/her to create what would appear to us as unique, foreign, and alien. We can never relate to an actual alien, which is why trying to relate to one would be erroneous, poor storytelling, and would detract from what makes Mass Effect what it is: the human understanding of the galaxy.
No I don't understand your argument. Largely because I don't agree with the fundamental pieces of your argument.
I assure you, I can imagine what the Krogan would feel towards the Turians and the Salarians through the fictitious use of the genophage, just as easily as the fictitious first contact war. I can understand The Batarians slow decline and struggle for social acceptance as their long held customs are found to be highly distasteful to other established cultures. I can understand how others can see the position of privilege the Asari are in and how some Asari are conscious of it and others are completely unaware. I can understand the joint feelings of guilt, embarrassment, and victimization the Quarians would feel in the many years since the morning war.
The different species all have a different appearance, biology and history. But they could effectively be human looking with these different histories, they will never be truly alien, that is just how they have been written. At the same time they do not need to water anything down at all. I know for a fact I can imagine myself in the shoes of most of the main main aliens. Allowing us to experience these stories, and play a character with a different perspective, would be a very nice feature for a lot of people. Yes there is a higher cost to this, I am not arguing that. But in my, and many others opinions, it would be a very worthwhile feature.
I've always been a bit annoyed when someone makes a game filled with interesting, diverse races, and then locks you into being human anyway.
I know why. You can say "but but story" all you want, but it's because it's more work. Look how little of everything the other races got in DAI - my Qunari was stuck with the same ho-hum beige "coat" armor for about 40 hours or so. Damn near everything else seemed to be "human only". I guess in that sense I'd rather have a human only protagonist than to be so severely gimped, but it's still irritating as all get out.
Though you could have fixed the beige part. But yeah, it's a cost. Even bigger cost in ME where the setting isn't very racially -integrated.
What do you mean by racially-integrated?
What do you mean by racially-integrated?
Each faction's major organizations are pretty much 100% their own species. Like, you won't have a turian, asari or human in the STG.
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