Questa discussione ha avuto 26 risposte

[Yermogi]

So I'm fairly certain that most people who play Dragon Age (or really any BioWare game) enjoy and look forward to getting party banter. It's funny, and adds to the immersion in the game. But I have to say that I preferred the older systems of triggering banter than the one that they implemented in DA:I.

 

In DA:O and DA2, there were certain places on a map where, if you passed them, you knew you were going to get dialogue, and you could hear all the available banters by walking over certain spots. While some might call this cheating, I enjoyed knowing where I could go to hear some banter if I wanted it, even if it was kind of redundant to walk out of one area and then right back into it to hear something. Meanwhile in DA:I, your companions are supposed to banter every 10-15 minutes, IF your game isn't bugged and IF the game triggers a banter for you. This system I don't like nearly as much as the previous one.

 

BUT, in Trespasser, they have spots (if I am remembering correctly) where you can click on a little glowing orb and THAT triggers a party banter. I very much liked that system. 

 

I think that in the next game, what they should do instead of having 15 minute conversation triggers or areas that create banter is to have these "Banter" orbs located throughout the areas of exploration that trigger party conversations if you click on them. This not only encourages you to explore the game fully, but is also a reliable method of getting banter. There would be as many orbs in the game as there are available party banters, and maybe they wouldn't respawn/refresh whenever you found one.

 

Anyway, it was just an idea I had. Thoughts?

I don't know if this would be a good idea, or if it could be implemented very well, but I just think that the DA:I system of randomly hearing banter isn't really reliable, and I very much enjoyed having large areas to explore. This would be a way to maybe improve on the system without making it repetitive to try to trigger banter.

[PapaCharlie9]

I'm going to be a bit disappointing. I didn't really like the Trespasser experiment. And I'm being kind when I say experiment. I sometimes wonder if it wasn't a hack to insure that banter worked where and when they wanted, since it is so unreliable in the main game.

I'd like a mix of DAO and DAI random styles. There are DAO-style spots in the main game and in JoH, at least. Though only one character says anything, as I recall. I'd like to see it be more like DAO, but still have some random thrown in too.

[nightscrawl]

I'm going to be a bit disappointing. I didn't really like the Trespasser experiment. And I'm being kind when I say experiment. I sometimes wonder if it wasn't a hack to insure that banter worked where and when they wanted, since it is so unreliable in the main game.

I'd like a mix of DAO and DAI random styles. There are DAO-style spots in the main game and in JoH, at least. Though only one character says anything, as I recall. I'd like to see it be more like DAO, but still have some random thrown in too.

 

I would like a mix of all three. The problem with the DAI style was that was ALL there was, so if we wanted to hear banter, we had to wait and wait, and sometimes it just didn't work. With the DAO/2 style, because you had to walk by marked locations, there could be long stretches where you didn't hear anything at all. A combination of randomness mixed with set locations really seems like the best.

 

So they could have the same DAI style, mixed with some (limited) location-fire places, in addition to some (limited) Trespasser special discoveries. This way there will always be something for everyone to comment about. DAI did have some special comments related to player action, for example on looking through an Ocularum for the first time a different mix of banter will fire depending on the follower (the Varric + Dorian one is my fav), as well as other specific circumstances (learning about veil fire for the first time etc).

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Or they could just use the DAO/DA2 style and place triggers hidden at random locations all over the maps that trigger random banter so that you never go more than 5 mins w/o hearing banter. Even repeats are better than hours and whole zones of silence. Makes you want to rush through and just do the main and personal quests because, especially on second and beyond playthroughs, you know you won't get but one maybe two banters per zone and, none in some zones anyway. Means nothing new to hear, see or do there so you rush to get the game over with.

 

Honestly, the best part is low levels, doing haven and the Hinterlands as far as banter goes, after that, it's basically non existent, at least for me. (not counting the rare location triggered comment or banter.) Hours of doing side quests and walking everywhere gets dull after the first time. Banter would at least be something new to hear, or a familiar, funny one to hear again but, for a lot of us that isn't happening. Most fun in the game with banter is the Tiniest Cave, if it doesn't trigger right away, it can say lots of stuff.

[Yermogi]

Or they could just use the DAO/DA2 style and place triggers hidden at random locations all over the maps that trigger random banter so that you never go more than 5 mins w/o hearing banter. Even repeats are better than hours and whole zones of silence. Makes you want to rush through and just do the main and personal quests because, especially on second and beyond playthroughs, you know you won't get but one maybe two banters per zone and, none in some zones anyway. Means nothing new to hear, see or do there so you rush to get the game over with.

This is pretty much how I feel. Wandering around huge areas in almost complete silence doesn't really interest me, and I've never heard more than a fraction of companion banters because it takes so long to trigger them and I don't feel like standing in one place for up to an hour on the chance that I might hear a couple conversations.

[nightscrawl]

Well the thing is that the banters aren't 100% random in DAI either. There are banter series that build on each other. Followers change and form friendships, get to know each other, and so on, all through banter. Dorian and Blackwall start out antagonistic, and then become sort of buds. Cassandra starts off as very suspicious of Cole and then those worries are assuaged. There is one banter series between Dorian and Cole of about four or five banters concerning Dorian and his relationship with his father and they are said in a set order.

 

The DAO/2 style worked primarily because those environments were mostly linear, but DAI had wide open maps where the player could wander all over. Sure, there are roads and locations that are likely to be higher traffic, but it's not a guarantee.

 

Even with trigger locations you could still fail to hear banter if you don't pass that location. This is why I think a mix of styles is best.

[veeia]

If the system in Inquisition had worked the way it was supposed to for everyone, I think it would have been great. As someone who had a hell of a time getting banter for a long time though, it was extremely frustrating. But I didn't really like Trespasser's system either. I like the idea of a mixture of the different ones, and having the "main" one (randomly firing banter) actually working better lmao. I'm not sure exactly how it could be improved because I'm still not exactly sure how it's supposed to function, but certainly taking into account the time you take interacting with objects/fighting, while not firing during them, would help.

 

I loved the little bits of location banter though. Like there's a Sera comment in EDL that's great, and if you have Blackwall in your party, he'll join in.

[nightscrawl]

If the system in Inquisition had worked the way it was supposed to for everyone, I think it would have been great. As someone who had a hell of a time getting banter for a long time though, it was extremely frustrating. But I didn't really like Trespasser's system either. I like the idea of a mixture of the different ones, and having the "main" one (randomly firing banter) actually working better lmao. I'm not sure exactly how it could be improved because I'm still not exactly sure how it's supposed to function, but certainly taking into account the time you take interacting with objects/fighting, while not firing during them, would help.

 

I loved the little bits of location banter though. Like there's a Sera comment in EDL that's great, and if you have Blackwall in your party, he'll join in.

 

In one of the later patches they reduced the timing between 10-15 minutes. I've noticed that some follower combinations are more chatty than others and so fire more often -- I get more banter with Dorian, Cassandra, and Cole than I do when I sub Cole for Varric; these four are my primary combination.

 

I time the banter while I play and alter my play around it. If I know a banter is going to trigger in a couple of minutes, I will wait rather than talk to some NPC or travel to Haven/Skyhold.

 

If the player is walking around there is a timer going. This timer is not reset by combat. You are supposed to get a party banter, OR a location banter every 10-15 minutes.

- Once the banter fires, the timer is reset.

- The timer is reset if you travel to another map, say from Hinterlands to Storm Coast. I don't believe it is reset if you fast travel within a map (from one Hinterlands camp to another) but I'm not entirely certain; I rarely use fast travel due to immersion.

- No banter fires while you are mounted because the followers are not present. However, I don't know if being on a mount resets the timer, or not. For example, if you have just gotten a banter, causing the timer to reset, and then mount up somewhere and ride around for five minutes, is that five minutes counted toward your next 15 minute banter fire, or will the timer only start again once you dismount?

- I also think entering into major cinematics resets the timer. For example, I get regular banter in Hinterlands and Redcliffe, but when I go there for the In Hushed Whispers quests, talk to the gate soldier, talk to Fiona and Alexius in the tavern, and then go to the Chantry, I don't get banter again when I am finally wandering Hinterlands again for quite a long while (I've never timed it). I also don't know if the timer is impacted by the non-cinematic conversations you can have with NPCs, quest givers and such; I don't think it is, from my banter experience.

 

They did an involved post, as well as a Bioware blog entry about it (linked in the post).

 

This is how it's supposed to work. They did try to fix it, but because the problem only happened to some players, but not others, I don't think they were able to really narrow down exactly what caused the issues.

[zoodc]

Well the thing is that the banters aren't 100% random in DAI either. There are banter series that build on each other. Followers change and form friendships, get to know each other, and so on, all through banter. Dorian and Blackwall start out antagonistic, and then become sort of buds. Cassandra starts off as very suspicious of Cole and then those worries are assuaged. There is one banter series between Dorian and Cole of about four or five banters concerning Dorian and his relationship with his father and they are said in a set order.

 

The DAO/2 style worked primarily because those environments were mostly linear, but DAI had wide open maps where the player could wander all over. Sure, there are roads and locations that are likely to be higher traffic, but it's not a guarantee.

 

Even with trigger locations you could still fail to hear banter if you don't pass that location. This is why I think a mix of styles is best.

 

My favorites are the ones where Solas, Cole, and Blackwall all talk to each other.

[Yermogi]

I think if they're going to keep doing the timed banter, they need to shorten it so that it's between 5-10 minutes. There's a lot of banter between all the companions and I just don't think that 10-15 minute intervals are short enough to hear everything. I know that I get impatient and waiting around for all of them. I also think they should get rid of using "area" comments along with banter because I get so frustrated when I think I'm going to hear a fun conversation, only to hear something about the weather. If they want area banter, they should make those trigger when you move somewhere.

[nightscrawl]

^ Yeah... I get the majority of my banter when I am filling out the maps, that is, going around and exploring every nook and cranny to make it visible on the map. I can see that, in standard gameplay, a player who is just running here and there directly between quests and such might not hear very much at all. And just when you're about to get your second banter, you zip back to Skyhold to sell crap and craft, and have missed hearing it.

[Spirit Vanguard]

I agree. I loved roaming around and getting into trouble with the crew, but the first time I played? It was bugged and I didn't even know. I could spend 2-3 hours in an area and hear nothing after a banter 20 minutes in.

I don't have trouble with the bug anymore, but even if I'm getting banter at a more rapid rate of 11-13 minutes, there's just so much of it. It feels almost impossible for me to hear everything that everyone can say -- romantic banter in particular as that's unique to each of my playthroughs. And when I play a new character? I'm starting all over at the mercy of the game, hearing the same conversations and learning nothing new. (And there is a lot that I still haven't heard.) It's a lot of catching up--and then I'm out of quests to do. So I have basically just started standing around somewhere safe to let them talk without actually doing anything. That's no fun. Especially when it churns out "environmental" comments instead of conversational banter.

In Origins and DA2 I would walk through known locations to force more banter that I hadn't casually heard, passing through loading screens to keep it coming. That was fine with me. In such large areas like DAI it might be difficult or less practical to have trigger spots, but I hope there's a middle ground between the new and old banter system. A mix/combination would be more ideal.

[VivainaDX]

I kind of go back and forth on whether or not I liked the designated spot. It was kind of an ok idea, but I didn't notice them until way into the DLC so I don't know if I missed anything.    I wasn't expecting it and I was more familiar with the random, pre-timed banter.

[Yermogi]

I think I would be okay with the timed banter IF they did these three things:

 

1. Make the banter fire between 5-10 minutes instead of 10-15.

2. Don't make the banter-fire random, make it a sure thing. No more of this "you may not have triggered a banter".

3. Don't include area comments with the banter. Area comments are fine, but I'd rather hear Solas and Bull discuss the Qun. Make the area comments fire when you get to certain areas.

[Spirit Vanguard]

I'm really beginning to loathe those area comments. I don't mind hearing about how Dorian camped for the the first time in the Hinterlands or that Varric continues to trip over tree roots. But the other stuff? It's usually just stating the obvious.

 

"There's been fighting in this area." or "It's raining." or "I'm going to re-explain why this place is called the Exalted Plains even though Scout Harding and the codex already covered that." --Yeah, thanks for wasting 15 of my minutes. 

[veeia]

Yeah, I like the fun area banter, like where they share a fact or a story (like the Hissing Wastes tomb series) or make funny/interesting observations, but some of them are pretty useless. I do like the idea though, because having them react to the world is cool.  And if you can have fun combos, like the Sera-Blackwall-Vivienne one in EDL, that's awesome too.

[nightscrawl]

I'm really beginning to loathe those area comments. I don't mind hearing about how Dorian camped for the the first time in the Hinterlands or that Varric continues to trip over tree roots. But the other stuff? It's usually just stating the obvious.

 

"There's been fighting in this area." or "It's raining." or "I'm going to re-explain why this place is called the Exalted Plains even though Scout Harding and the codex already covered that." --Yeah, thanks for wasting 15 of my minutes. 

 

I am perfectly fine with Dorian talking to me about the weather... even if he is complaining half the time (see sig).

[Spirit Vanguard]

I am perfectly fine with Dorian talking to me about the weather... even if he is complaining half the time (see sig).

 

Haha, I can certainly sympathize with being cold. But when in Emprise and he's just "This place gives me a headache." ...Sigh 

 

The least Dorian can do is talk about himself at every opportunity. ;D

[nightscrawl]

^ Just FYI if you didn't realize, that is part of some banters he has about the red lyrium all over the place there. There is the headache one, one about it being warm, and one where he warns you not to touch it. I think it's actually pretty interesting to hear those in succession as you're going along obliterating the templar camps.

[PapaCharlie9]

Anything is better than Viv complaining about her shoes.

[Spirit Vanguard]

^ Just FYI if you didn't realize, that is part of some banters he has about the red lyrium all over the place there. There is the headache one, one about it being warm, and one where he warns you not to touch it. I think it's actually pretty interesting to hear those in succession as you're going along obliterating the templar camps.

 

I know. But it's just so "Blah!" and then... yeah?  It's one of those cues that I don't feel I should've earned after 15 minutes of running around. When we pass by red lyrium and someone says "Hey, its warm!" that's different because it's triggered. Besides, at that point I know not to touch red lyrium even though it looks like yummy rock candy.

[kimgoold]

I cannot stress how much I hate standing around waiting to hear party banter, especially when attempting to hook up Blackwall/Josie and Dorian/Iron Bull. I liked the Trespasser method better than the random Miss-fire system in DAI; but I think the set location banter spots DAO and banter bubbles from Trespasser would be a good combination, then area comments could be the timed random conversations from DAI instead. 

Just make sure a #### NPC doesn't interrupt/stop it by talking to you (rotten requisitions NPC's at campsites).

[Yermogi]

So I did some math. Every companion has about 20 or so banters with every other companion, not counting the area banters. If I'm doing the math correctly (which is very possibly incorrect since I've never been very good at math), then we can multiply 20 by 9 and get 180 companion banters. So if we take 180 and multiply that by 15 (for every 15 minutes), then you get 2,700, and that divided by 60 is 45.

 

So if I'm doing all this the right way and not making any stupid mistakes (which, again, is very possible) it would take us 45 hours of game time to hear every companion banter, not including the stupid area comments, which each companion also has about 20 of.

 

45 hours of game time to hear every banter. It's ridiculous. I've beaten the game in 45 hours!  And even if you wander around doing every quest possible, you still wouldn't hear every single banter available because the hours required to hear all banter exceeds the amount of hours that a person would need to accomplish every quest in all the different areas. Or at leas that's what I think. So yeah, the timed banter system needs to change drastically before the next game comes out.

[Ferretinabun]

Don't take this as gospel as I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure I heard on here somewhere that banter can be impeded by your quest log. If you have a lot of quests that haven't even been read, that can stop banter triggering, apparently. So always go through your quest log and make sure everything is marked as read.

 

I would be really interested to get confirmation as to whether it actually works, though. It's certainly easy enough to try out...

[Yermogi]

Don't take this as gospel as I haven't played in a while, but I'm pretty sure I heard on here somewhere that banter can be impeded by your quest log. If you have a lot of quests that haven't even been read, that can stop banter triggering, apparently. So always go through your quest log and make sure everything is marked as read.

 

I would be really interested to get confirmation as to whether it actually works, though. It's certainly easy enough to try out...

Yes, that's a bug in the banter system which has supposedly been worked out. But even if there's no bugs, it still takes 10-15 minutes to trigger banter, so it still takes a crap-load of time even without bugs.