396 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

 
You know, I think a number of people might have thought your post was being a bit bias and a bit generalising considering that you ended your post with and I quote; "Funny how it's always Mage supporters who actually provide facts and do research"

 

Ending your post with a incorrect statement tend to make it difficult for people to believe that the rest of your post was a correct statement.

 

But why actually engage others in dialogue and answer their responses when one can just angrily post a cut and paste template and then leave?

[nightscrawl]

Thanks for posting that. Good point on the Herald's knowledge of either/or with these quests.

 

 

The either/or nature of these quests reminds me that the overall idea of the PC leading an organization didn't work for me. While we have Krem and the Chargers able to investigate Redcliffe or Therinfall after the quest, why can't be delegate part of our forces to go on one quest while we go to the other? I know we're only the Herald at this point and not the Inquisitor, but why is there a town full of Inquisition members who just sit around Haven?

 

This would never have happened, but it would have been cool if we could have done a Gates of Denerim quest and assigned one of our companions to lead a second team to the other quest. Let Cassandra/IB/Blackwall lead the beta team to investigate while we're busy. What else are our companions going to do, sit around Haven?

 

Well, the various quest dialogue does go out of its way to say that "it has to be YOU because ur so awesome and speshul with ur glowing hand and all."

 

But yes, I do agree that the Inquisition, as a force, was really underutilized throughout the whole game. I think they tried to make an effort of it with the war table. Perhaps the problem with that is that it just seems like such a gamey device? I know it IS a game, but too great an emphasis on such things can pull one out of the narrative story.

 

I think the way of talking to Krem, getting his suggestion, and then sending the Chargers out on the war table was a pretty good way of doing it. Maybe there would be a different feeling if we could do similar things with each advisor. There are a couple of instances where Josephine asks for the Inquisitor's input, particularly regarding Tevinter, and I liked the way that played out.

 

There was a lot of discussion along these lines regarding Dorian's appearance in the Magekiller comic. The only reason I didn't like it was because there wasn't an indication that the inner circle followers did that sort of thing on their own. That's not something I'm going to headcanon, or assume, or whathaveyou; if that's a thing that happened (followers going on missions) I want to have that indicated in some way in the game itself. Otherwise, it just seems fake, something that the comic writer just did so he could stuff another cameo into the comic for the most minor lore reveal ever (the term perrepatae for what Marius is).

 

Perhaps we should have been able to send our followers off to do things. The current expansion of World of Warcraft added "garrisons" which are a per-player garrison that they can control and customize for various functions. There are also garrison followers that can be used for certain things including going on missions. These followers have classes as in the game itself, and some missions require teams (tank, heals, etc) in order to be successful. Maybe we should have been able to do this in DAI. Otherwise, it just seems like they hang around all day waiting for the Inquisitor to say, "All right, pack your bags and long underwear; we're going to the Emprise."

 

 

Sorry for the digression from the mage/templar choice.

[Dean_the_Young]

 
You know, I think a number of people might have thought your post was being a bit bias and a bit generalising considering that you ended your post with and I quote; "Funny how it's always Mage supporters who actually provide facts and do research"

 

Ending your post with a incorrect statement tend to make it difficult for people to believe that the rest of your post was a correct statement.

 

Just ask him if he found that codex yet.

[Dean_the_Young]

But why actually engage others in dialogue and answer their responses when one can just angrily post a cut and paste template and then leave?

 

Ah, but then he doesn't have to answer any questions about his own promised research project- the definitive, in-game proof  and actual lore that his beloved mages and Fiona were brainwashed and forced against their will to attack the Inquisition at the behest of a Blighted Magister and bunch of mage supremacists. He swore it existed, and promised to get it to us one of these days... when having a real life doesn't get in the way... probably after his next great contribution to yet another Mage-Templar argument...

 

 

Hasn't found it yet, though it's been nearly a year and a half, but he'll happily tell you about a non-canonical player's guide that makes the claim, and his brief brush with fame when he asked a dev who admitted he wasn't sure and punted him to someone else, who never responded.

 

He's really, really proud of that twitter exchange.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

The last known location of the mage codex.

[Shechinah]

Just ask him if he found that codex yet.

 

Believe it or not, I was actually considering ending the post with that instead of what I did end it with.
 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I'm not sure whether to laugh at or pity the people who obsess over using a codex entry against me. Guess apparently not spending the rest of my life finding a codex entry is considered a negative trait to some people lol

 

But don't worry, I may not have found the codex, but I did find the recipe for an elixir of life. Tasty too

[Hellion Rex]

I'm not sure whether to laugh at or pity the people who obsess over using a codex entry against me. Guess apparently not spending the rest of my life finding a codex entry is considered a negative trait to some people lol

 

But don't worry, I may not have found the codex, but I did find the recipe for an elixir of life. Tasty too

 

I find this kind of amusing considering your claim below.

 

Funny how it's always Mage supporters who actually provide facts and do research

[thesuperdarkone2]

I find this kind of amusing considering your claim below.

Mind explaining how does anything I said contradict that? Man, the level of insults on this forum went down after the talimancer war ended. Seriously, that was some entertaining stuff

[Dai Grepher]

What codex is tsdo2 supposed to be providing? Just wondering.

[Steelcan]

Mind explaining how does anything I said contradict that? Man, the level of insults on this forum went down after the talimancer war ended. Seriously, that was some entertaining stuff

pfft we Mirandalorians can top anything those suit rat lovers can do

[thesuperdarkone2]

pfft we Mirandalorians can top anything those suit rat lovers can do

Perhaps but you weren't on the frontlines with the anti-tali alliance in our war against the talimancers. Man, that was a crazy time

[Steelcan]

Perhaps but you weren't on the frontlines with the anti-tali alliance in our war against the talimancers. Man, that was a crazy time

true, but I was there when we got the entire romance sub-forum shut down

[thesuperdarkone2]

Well someone is certainly obsessed

[Dai Grepher]

You can feel that way but the game quite blatantly makes going to the mages a priority.

The game makes it seem like a priority, yes. However, that doesn't make it the best choice. Also, you are encouraged to take that path because it is a trap. Not just Alexius' trap, but Lucius' trap as well.

When you first get to Val Royeaux, the templars essentially tell you that you can go to hell and that they are their own power. Heck, Lucius straight up calls the templars who joined the Inquisition TRAITORS, so it's made blatantly clear the Templars want nothing to do with you.

Right, because Lucius and Envy do NOT want you going to Therinfal. They want you to go to Redcliffe, which is why Lucius attempts to send the message to you in Val Royeaux that the templars will not support you. That way you walk into Alexius' trap and you don't interfere with their plans to turn the templars red.

So if you chose the mages, you lost to Corypheus' minions, basically.

On the other hand, Fiona politely comes to you at great risk to herself and invites you to discuss a potential alliance. If you aren't a rampant mage-hater, there is literally no reason not to at least go to Redcliffe and hear the mages out.

True. If that was even Fiona. But in any case, you do have a good reason to go to Redcliffe.

Afterwards, you find out about the time rifts. After that, you find out that a bunch of Tevinters for some reason came all the way to Redcliffe to get the mages. Fiona not knowing about you should raise some concern.

Yes, it should tell you that working with the mages is a bad idea. Not only did Fiona make a foolish choice to sign the mages into slavery, but she has been manipulated somehow and is no longer in charge anyway. Now there is a foreign invading force in a Ferelden castle. Even if you manage to work out an arrangement, it would then be with criminals and warmongers. Ferelden would not take kindly to that.

And the main problem with IHW is that the storyline is illogical. Why couldn't we just kill Alexius right there in the tavern, for example?

Not going to the church afterwards is the only way to justifiably consider going to the templars. If you do go, you learn about the Venatori, a group who is obsessed with you and is probably the closest thing you've got so far to discovering just who exactly caused the Breach,

So what? If they're obsessed with you then they will come to you regardless of what you do.

not to mention Dorian's warning how the time rifts are going to continue to expand and go farther. That is pretty much an immediate reason to deal with the mages.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If time rifts are forming, then one could argue that it's best to avoid the area so that more are not caused by your or Alexius. And if the rifts form anyway then it gives Ferelden a good reason to seek your aid, which means an alliance.

Now, you've basically got a hostile enemy occupying territory practically next door to you with time magic that is starting to expand and are the primary suspects in finding the culprits who started the Breach.

The enemy force is small, as they have not joined up with the main Venatori army from Tevinter yet. So the mages in Redcliffe are no threat to Haven. If time magic is starting to expand, all the more reason to get away from it and recruit the templars. Primary suspects that you'll be seeing regardless. Best to be prepared for them. What isn't best is walking into a time trap set by them.

Before you suggest "lets get the Templars", your advisors straight up tell you that won't work as the Venatori are mobilizing for war and by the time you get the Templars, the mages will be long gone, plus your advisors straight up telling you actually assaulting Redcliffe Castle even with Templars would be seen as an act of war with Ferelden so that's out of the picture.

It's also stated that Arl Teagan has gone to Denerim to gain the aid of the crown. That means Ferelden will deal with the mages in Redcliffe. This gives you plenty of time to enlist the templars.

No one needs to assault Redcliffe Castle. That's just the advisors spinning their wheels. As for the mages being ready for war, they can get as ready as they want. This will only cause more mages to flee Fiona and Alexius and go elsewhere. Also, the mages wouldn't be able to assault Haven with their few numbers, and especially not with the crown hot on their heels.

So now you've got a hostile foreign power mobilizing for war who potentially caused the Breach that is right next door and will take the mages away from you if you try to get the Templars. That alone should be reason enough for why you should deal with the mages ASAP.

Nope. The mages had freewill. They could have left Fiona and gone to Haven at any time. If they choose to gear up for war, instead of go to Tevinter as they were led to believe was the plan, then the fault is theirs. They'll also get crushed by the newly recruited templars, and then the mage rebellion will be over. Sounds good to me.

"Deal with the mages" might be a great idea if it weren't such a terrible idea. Meaning, the only plan you are given is to be bait and walk into a trap, while your enemy wields time magic. That's a stupid plan, and it isn't worth the risk. Period.

Furthermore, literally nothing indicates you'll lose the Templars if you help out the mages first, plus the plan to get the Templars involves essentially threatening them to help you. Something tells me the Templars wouldn't be too happy to help you when you threaten them into helping you.

Doesn't matter if the story doesn't tell you that picking the mages excludes the templars. Going after the mages is a terrible plan. Also, the plan with the templars is to appeal to them and force Lucius' hand. He claimed he wanted respect and recognition for the Templar Order, well, here it is. Now he has to follow through on his claims or else appear as a fraud to the knights. It's a much craftier play than blindly walking into a trap, and trusting Alexius' former apprentice to have your back, and risking that Alexius hasn't already used time magic again to foil your counterattack.

[Dai Grepher]

Plus, finding out Cory's plans makes a lot more sense if you sided with the mages because they already happened but meanwhile the only reason you know about Cory's plans with the templars is by finding papers the Envy demon left lying about and Envy gloating about the demon army. Sorry, but the mage method makes a lot more sense.

Bull crap. The companions are left alive in the bad future for no reason other than to assist you through the level. They're even allowed to keep their armor and weapons. They never call him Corypheus, because storytelling reasons, and they never inform you of Corypheus' dragon, which would have been helpful don't you think?

Finding out from Envy is better because its a demon. Of course it's going to act crazy and write and draw all kinds of stuff. Also, the information about Celene was more of a clue. IHW bashes you in the fact with it, saying that Celene was assassinated. In CotJ you just find a bust of her with a knife in it, and Cole gives a little bit more of a hint. Then the party speculates on what it means. That is a far better plot reveal than just being told. Also, the demon army revelation was done through battling Envy in your mind. After winning against it before this, it gets desperate and tries to make you react by telling you of the demon army it will raise in your name. It also believed you would not be able to escape it, so that's why it didn't mind showing it to you.

Furthermore, having to recruit Cole TWICE is just plain ridiculous. It makes sense having to recruit him if you sided with the mages but zero if you already recruited him after siding with the templars. It makes sense everyone is suspicious if he first came during the attack on Haven but little if he's already been around for a while after siding with the Templars. Plus, the interactions with the dying Roderick make more sense if Cole is the one with him rather than Dorian.

Your opinion. I think the scene of him yelling in for your to open the gate and then stabbing the Venatori in the back makes no sense. Why Venatori and not red templars? Why was the brute walking toward you when Cole was behind him? How did Cole beat all of them?

Dorian's entrance was much better. He was posing as Venatori, which explains how he was able to beat them. Element of surprise. Also, the Venatori are the ones attacking, so it makes sense for them to be there.

As for Roderick, I can see him fending off a Venatori, but a red templar? No way. I can also see him surviving a regular stab for as long as he did, but not a red lyrium stab.

See? I can turn that around and give compelling reasons for the alternative.

Now lets talk about the Red Templars:

If you sided with the templars, HOW IS THERE AN ARMY OF RED TEMPLARS STILL AROUND? It makes sense that the Venatori are still around if you sided with the mages because a majority of them are from Tevinter but it makes zero sense for the Red Templars to have a large presence if you helped the Red Templars.

The ones that died at Haven are the ones from Therinfal. Deman confirms this. Besides, your argument would apply against you anyway. If reds died at Haven, how are they still around afterward?

The answer is because red templars were being created all over the place. Therinfal was just the main base. Sulidin Keep, headed by Imshael, was the secondary base.

The real question is why aren't there MORE Venatori if you side with the mages? Remember, if you got the mages, then the red templars attack Haven, not the Venatori, the majority of which are from Tevinter, as you wrote. So where did that large army go?

For starters, you prevented them from bolstering their army with the entire Templar order which should drastically reduce their numbers.

Again, you drastically reduce their numbers with the avalanche. So the same question would apply to you, as would the question of where the unused Venatori army went to.

Furthermore, you killed a lot of red templars while recruiting the mages so there should be even less.

What? Those two things contradict. If you went to Therinfal and stopped the reds from bolstering their numbers, then you didn't recruit with the mages. And you don't kill any red templars while recruiting the mages. You kill them afterward at Haven, in which case you are still left to explain where the other red templars came from.

That brings up the question of how are the red templars still a fighting force if you sided with the templars? They are apparently large enough to stand up to the Orlesian army during WPHW despite that making no sense if you sided with the templars yet makes complete sense if you sided with the mages.

They couldn't stand up to the Orlesian forces. They were nothing but a "bulwark" to give Calpernia and Corypheus time to get into the Temple of Mythal.

Furthermore, the Templars stop being relevant if Barris dies or you conscript them. There is no redemption arc in that case.

So? Finoa was never relevant to begin with. That still puts CotJ ahead of IHW.

Plus, the Templars get absolutely no mention in Trespasser apart from their rebellion against Divine Vivienne.

Isn't the same true for the mages? Besides, that would be Trespasser's fault, not CotJ's.

Also, the Inquisitor can mention the templars in a certain dialogue, as well as the Grey Wardens, when talking about corruption in the ranks.

All things considered, the game blatantly wants you to go towards the mages.

So what? Doesn't make it the better one. It wants you to go toward the mages because its a trap.

However, if you side with the templars, you both kill a lot of red templars at Therinfal and deprive them of bolstering their numbers.

"Both" "kill a lot of red templars at Therinfal", and "deprive them of bolstering their numbers" are the same thing.

The red templars that show up later are from other areas.

[Dai Grepher]

That alone should mean that the red templars shouldn't be a threat yet apparently they are still numerous enough that we need the Orlesian army to help the Inquisition in order to fight them.

The red templars aren't a threat. The Venatori is the threat. As you wrote, it makes sense for them to have more troops to pose a threat, since they are from Tevinter. So even after you kill many of them in the avalanche, there are still plenty more from Tevinter to post a threat.

In that case, does that mean that high majority of the templars were corrupted anyway? In that case, why bother going to the templars if saving the mages gets you all the mages yet saving the templars only gets you a small percent of the templars?

It isn't a small percent. And all of the mages are still less useful than almost all of the templars. Plus, the mages had a choice. They could have joined the Inquisition at any time.

And for the record, I do personally believe that Fiona was under the influence of blood magic when she was sent to attack the Herald in Haven. But I never saw any codex about it. Also, I'm sure the Venatori were all willing participants. Servis basically confirms this. He willingly helped because he wanted to get his hands on artifacts. Then when caught and possibly captured, he promises to help the Inquisition, and does, with minimal mischief.

[thesuperdarkone2]

The game makes it seem like a priority, yes. However, that doesn't make it the best choice. Also, you are encouraged to take that path because it is a trap. Not just Alexius' trap, but Lucius' trap as well.


Right, because Lucius and Envy do NOT want you going to Therinfal. They want you to go to Redcliffe, which is why Lucius attempts to send the message to you in Val Royeaux that the templars will not support you. That way you walk into Alexius' trap and you don't interfere with their plans to turn the templars red.

So if you chose the mages, you lost to Corypheus' minions, basically.


True. If that was even Fiona. But in any case, you do have a good reason to go to Redcliffe.


Yes, it should tell you that working with the mages is a bad idea. Not only did Fiona make a foolish choice to sign the mages into slavery, but she has been manipulated somehow and is no longer in charge anyway. Now there is a foreign invading force in a Ferelden castle. Even if you manage to work out an arrangement, it would then be with criminals and warmongers. Ferelden would not take kindly to that.

And the main problem with IHW is that the storyline is illogical. Why couldn't we just kill Alexius right there in the tavern, for example?


So what? If they're obsessed with you then they will come to you regardless of what you do.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. If time rifts are forming, then one could argue that it's best to avoid the area so that more are not caused by your or Alexius. And if the rifts form anyway then it gives Ferelden a good reason to seek your aid, which means an alliance.


The enemy force is small, as they have not joined up with the main Venatori army from Tevinter yet. So the mages in Redcliffe are no threat to Haven. If time magic is starting to expand, all the more reason to get away from it and recruit the templars. Primary suspects that you'll be seeing regardless. Best to be prepared for them. What isn't best is walking into a time trap set by them.


It's also stated that Arl Teagan has gone to Denerim to gain the aid of the crown. That means Ferelden will deal with the mages in Redcliffe. This gives you plenty of time to enlist the templars.

No one needs to assault Redcliffe Castle. That's just the advisors spinning their wheels. As for the mages being ready for war, they can get as ready as they want. This will only cause more mages to flee Fiona and Alexius and go elsewhere. Also, the mages wouldn't be able to assault Haven with their few numbers, and especially not with the crown hot on their heels.


Nope. The mages had freewill. They could have left Fiona and gone to Haven at any time. If they choose to gear up for war, instead of go to Tevinter as they were led to believe was the plan, then the fault is theirs. They'll also get crushed by the newly recruited templars, and then the mage rebellion will be over. Sounds good to me.

"Deal with the mages" might be a great idea if it weren't such a terrible idea. Meaning, the only plan you are given is to be bait and walk into a trap, while your enemy wields time magic. That's a stupid plan, and it isn't worth the risk. Period.


Doesn't matter if the story doesn't tell you that picking the mages excludes the templars. Going after the mages is a terrible plan. Also, the plan with the templars is to appeal to them and force Lucius' hand. He claimed he wanted respect and recognition for the Templar Order, well, here it is. Now he has to follow through on his claims or else appear as a fraud to the knights. It's a much craftier play than blindly walking into a trap, and trusting Alexius' former apprentice to have your back, and risking that Alexius hasn't already used time magic again to foil your counterattack.

1. What Lucius trap? The templar quest makes it clear envy didn't give a crap about the Herald until they arrived with the nobles, after which envy decided that the Herald was important enough to replace

 

2. Like I said before, the templar mission makes it clear that envy considers you to be a nobody and thus he has no reason to fear you because you literally . You only become a threat once the templars start worshipping you and you show that you are someone important.

 

3. If you think the mages are your best hope of closing the breach, would you really care about what others think of the mages? Fiona not remembering you should ring some alarms and should deserve investigation. Also, you not being able to kill Alexius upon meeting him can probably be attributed to the Inquisitor not being a murderous psychopath

 

4. If you wait for them to come to you, it will likely be an assault. At the time, you are stationed in essentially a glorified tourist town that is ill suited for war. A group of mages attacking it would cause immense damage. That's not considering a surprise attack. Why wait for the enemy to come to you when you can cripple them, take their army away from them, and potentially get valuable information from captured Venatori?

 

5. Given that a time rift was just outside the gates and inside the city in the Chantry, it's entirely possible to assume that more rifts could occur inside the town and get innocent people killed. Thus, one can argue that stopping Alexius would help put a stop to these rifts.

 

6. They may be small, but apparently they are strong enough to kick out Teagan and force the mages to mobilize for war. Also, ignoring the time magic might wind up getting a lot of innocents killed since there was a time rift right inside the chantry. What would you do if going to the templars meant more time rifts opened up in Redcliffe and wound up getting lots of people killed? Also, how is a group obsessed with you mobilizing for war with an army of mages not a threat to Haven? That's also ignoring that going to Therinfal wound up being a trap with you almost getting possessed with no way to defend yourself from it

 

7. Denerim is farther away from Redcliffe than Therinfal and your advisors say that the mages will be gone by the time you get the templars. How long do you think it would take for the Fereldan army to reach Redcliffe? Also, assuming the Venatori haven't left yet, what proof do you have that the Venatori would lose? They have one of the most defensible castles in the country, not to mention magic and potentially being bolstered with an army of rebel mages. Odds aren't looking so good for the fereldans. Also, the crown doesn't stop the venatori from marching on Haven

 

8. We both know that the only reason the mages don't immediately join you is because the game needed a mission to get the mages. It's the same thing as Orsino going crazy if you sided with the mages in DA2. It was just an excuse to make players consider going to the templars especially considering Gaider said he was annoyed that so many people sided with the mages at the end of DA2 (gee Gaider, you're surprised that most people wouldn't help a blatantly insane bigot murder an entire group of people for something they didn't do?). Also, the original plan for getting the templars is to convince a lot of templars you are Jesus or threaten them. There is no guarantee that is going to work, not to mention that Therinfal winds up being a trap and you almost get possessed.

 

9. Except listening to the comments made by the templars during the mission prior to the red templars clearly show the templars aren't being swayed meaning the plan was a failing. Plus, why not bring some templars that are already part of the Inquisition as part of the stealth team? Tell me, how exactly would getting the templars help you defeat Alexius if you can't fight a direct battle for various reasons?

 

 

Will post the rest tomorrow.

[draken-heart]

For me, it varies from character to character.. Some choose mages because a potential enemy is too close to the door and best to get rid of them. Others choose Templars because Templars are more respected by the populace than mages to their support may get more people to support the Inquisiton.

[Dean_the_Young]

Hm. Someone was thinned skin enough to report an explanation of a long-running forum meme?

 

Ah, well, shouldn't be surprised. For anyone who didn't catch it, without anything approaching a personal insult....

 

Long ago, the superdarkone2 would frequently claim there was codex in one of the larger zones that proved the Mages who joined the Venatori, like Fiona, were thralls of Corypheus. For a time it served as a lynchpin of his favored arguments morally absolving the mage rebellion of their choices in DAI. Despite many claims he could and would provide proof of said codex after being challenged on it's existence, superdarkone2 never did, and yet too this day refuses to retract the claim the codex exists. Any mention of it will, quite likely, entail insinuations of obsession on the reminder, and a defense that he 'has a life.'

 

It's one of the great lingering unfounded claims of thesuperdarkone2, so when he makes one of his reoccuring personal insults towards pro-Templars/anti-Mage persons that they're less logical and reasoned because they don't support their claims, it naturally comes up. If you ever see him doing such, a simple reminder usually suffices to make him less insulting.

 

'Find that codex yet?'

[Lulupab]

Except I don't need a codex to believe Fiona and the mages were tricked. At the time no knows Venatori exists, so Fiona is making a deal with a Tevinter Magister who speaks for country of Tevinter. (Actually he doesn't though, but no one knows that yet) 

 

Tevinter always takes in mages from the south. When fans asked David Gaider why not all mages go to Tevinter to escape the circles he replied that there is a harsh requirement for migrating and living permanently in Tevinter. While he never said what this requirement is,  its either the deal Alexius made with Fiona or something negotiable. There is more info on mages who migrate to Tevinter on WoT. The most notable escape of mages from south prior to this was after the first exalted march where Tevinter took in all the mages who escaped southern countries who were at the time very harsh towards mages. On the other hand it would help Tevinter regain some strength after a long and bloody war. So taking in foreign mages is actually official and part of Tevinter law.

 

Fiona had no way in hell to know Alexius was Venatori given that the decision to ally with Tevinter was actually a valid one. Mages were kicked out of everywhere except Redcliff in which they have been attacked by Templars once already with some mages and people of redcliff dead. You can ask people around, specifically the healer who helped the injured of that attack. Its a matter of time they are either all killed or kicked out of Redcliff as well. If Alexius was not Venatori, that deal was the best thing that could save them. It a servitude deal (not slavery) and in return Tevinter is obligated to protect them. But Alexius is actually Venatori, so in the end it doesn't matter.

[sniper_arrow]

I guess it's obvious too late to say Mages vs Templars Part Nth: Citizens on Patrol.

[Steelcan]

Except I don't need a codex to believe Fiona and the mages were tricked. At the time no knows Venatori exists, so Fiona is making a deal with a Tevinter Magister who speaks for country of Tevinter. (Actually he doesn't though, but no one knows that yet) 

 

Tevinter always takes in mages from the south. When fans asked David Gaider why not all mages go to Tevinter to escape the circles he replied that there is a harsh requirement for migrating and living permanently in Tevinter. While he never said what this requirement is,  its either the deal Alexius made with Fiona or something negotiable. There is more info on mages who migrate to Tevinter on WoT. The most notable escape of mages from south prior to this was after the first exalted march where Tevinter took in all the mages who escaped southern countries who were at the time very harsh towards mages. On the other hand it would help Tevinter regain some strength after a long and bloody war. So taking in foreign mages is actually official and part of Tevinter law.

 

Fiona had no way in hell to know Alexius was Venatori given that the decision to ally with Tevinter was actually a valid one. Mages were kicked out of everywhere except Redcliff in which they have been attacked by Templars once already with some mages and people of redcliff dead. You can ask people around, specifically the healer who helped the injured of that attack. Its a matter of time they are either all killed or kicked out of Redcliff as well. If Alexius was not Venatori, that deal was the best thing that could save them. It a servitude deal (not slavery) and in return Tevinter is obligated to protect them. But Alexius is actually Venatori, so in the end it doesn't matter.

She was a fool to trust a Tevinter Magister, Venatori or not.  Its not like Tevinter can send an army to defend the southern mages, they can't afford to send one away from the Qunari, they can't just violate all the borders of those nations on the way without some sort of reprisal, and so on.  A person supposedly smart like Fiona should maybe have considered that before trusting in the home of a good 75% of antagonists from the setting.

[Dean_the_Young]

Except I don't need a codex to believe Fiona and the mages were tricked. At the time no knows Venatori exists, so Fiona is making a deal with a Tevinter Magister who speaks for country of Tevinter. (Actually he doesn't though, but no one knows that yet) 

 

Tevinter always takes in mages from the south. When fans asked David Gaider why not all mages go to Tevinter to escape the circles he replied that there is a harsh requirement for migrating and living permanently in Tevinter. While he never said what this requirement is,  its either the deal Alexius made with Fiona or something negotiable. There is more info on mages who migrate to Tevinter on WoT. The most notable escape of mages from south prior to this was after the first exalted march where Tevinter took in all the mages who escaped southern countries who were at the time very harsh towards mages. On the other hand it would help Tevinter regain some strength after a long and bloody war. So taking in foreign mages is actually official and part of Tevinter law.

 

Fiona had no way in hell to know Alexius was Venatori given that the decision to ally with Tevinter was actually a valid one. Mages were kicked out of everywhere except Redcliff in which they have been attacked by Templars once already with some mages and people of redcliff dead. You can ask people around, specifically the healer who helped the injured of that attack. Its a matter of time they are either all killed or kicked out of Redcliff as well. If Alexius was not Venatori, that deal was the best thing that could save them. It a servitude deal (not slavery) and in return Tevinter is obligated to protect them. But Alexius is actually Venatori, so in the end it doesn't matter.

 

You misunderstand. SuperDarkOne2 wasn't saying Fiona was tricked into subjugating herself. Being 'tricked' has never been in dispute.

 

He was saying she and the rest of the mages were outright mind-controlled into going along with it and attacking Haven on behalf of the blighted Corypheus. The mythical codex was supposedly about some mind-control ritual that the Venatori were doing on the Circle Mages right before marching on Haven.

[Lulupab]

She was a fool to trust a Tevinter Magister, Venatori or not.  Its not like Tevinter can send an army to defend the southern mages, they can't afford to send one away from the Qunari, they can't just violate all the borders of those nations on the way without some sort of reprisal, and so on.  A person supposedly smart like Fiona should maybe have considered that before trusting in the home of a good 75% of antagonists from the setting.

 

Irrelevant. Majority of mages in Redcliff are from Orlais and Nevara due to what happened with Ferelden circle. So its not about crossing nations, not to mention I never implied Tevinter would send an army. If Alexius was actually a real magister with no ties to Venatori then he and the mages would pack up and leave for Tevinter. Not stay and fight for the Elder One.

 

Alexius fooled literally everyone, if not for Felix NO ONE would have figured out he was Venatori so I don't think we can blame Fiona's smarts.