396 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Probably to ensure the the mages would literally have nowhere else to turn to. Think about it, if the mages still had the good graces of Ferelden, there would be no reason to take the deal as slaves. However, after accepting the deal, by kicking out Teagan, it pretty much took away Ferelden aid from the rebel mages, thereby ensuring that they literally had nowhere else to turn to. They could accept the deal with whatever terms Alexius decided, or they could refuse the deal and be forced to fend for themselves as Ferelden was angered. That's exactly what happens after you deal with Alexius; without the Venatori, Ferelden exiles the rebel mages. That's also why they grudgingly accept being conscripted since they literally have nowhere else to turn to and have to accept whatever terms you want.

Not the reasoning behind it, what legal right did he have to expel the Arl?

[Xilizhra]

Not the reasoning behind it, what legal right did he have to expel the Arl?

I think the more important question is "how did he expel the arl?" Because the game never answers that, or even says why it'd be Fiona's fault.

[nightscrawl]

Clemence the Alchemist states that Arl Teagan was made to leave so he did not leave by his own volition.

Clemence: "Magister Alexius arrived at nightfall, two days after we retreated from the Temple of Sacred Ashes. He forced anyone without magic out of the castle save those he required to serve him even the Arl was sent away."

Note: The underlining was done by me for emphasis.

I think the more important question is "how did he expel the arl?" Because the game never answers that, or even says why it'd be Fiona's fault.

Well I just assume that the presence of a Tevinter magister, likely to use magic, and possibly even blood magic, would be enough to intimidate him into leaving. He may have thought that doing so would spare lives. Note that I don't think this is the same as Teagan going, "Welp, the Tevinters are here, time to hoof it," because I doubt that was the case. You don't have to use physical force to make someone do something, only provide enough incentive through threat or intimidation; it amounts to the same thing.

 

As far as Fiona, it seems like the implication would be that, since she accepted the Tevinter help, she tacitly approved the removal of the Arl.

[Xilizhra]

 

Well I just assume that the presence of a Tevinter magister, likely to use magic, and possibly even blood magic, would be enough to intimidate him into leaving. He may have thought that doing so would spare lives. Note that I don't think this is the same as Teagan going, "Welp, the Tevinters are here, time to hoof it," because I doubt that was the case. You don't have to use physical force to make someone do something, only provide enough incentive through threat or intimidation; it amounts to the same thing.

 

As far as Fiona, it seems like the implication would be that, since she accepted the Tevinter help, she tacitly approved the removal of the Arl.

 

That's a remarkably thin thread to claim actual guilt. If she didn't actually participate in Teagan's expulsion herself, did she actually do anything wrong?

 

It also raises the question of "what could Fiona have realistically done against someone who could chase Teagan out of Ferelden's most defensible castle by his mere presence?"

[thesuperdarkone2]

That's a remarkably thin thread to claim actual guilt. If she didn't actually participate in Teagan's expulsion herself, did she actually do anything wrong?
 
It also raises the question of "what could Fiona have realistically done against someone who could chase Teagan out of Ferelden's most defensible castle by his mere presence?"

I have a theory that since the alliance occurred at the conclave, the rebel mages brought the Venatori to Redcliffe where they kicked Teagan out so that the mages couldn't refuse the alliance

[Steelcan]

I have a theory that since the alliance occurred at the conclave, the rebel mages brought the Venatori to Redcliffe where they kicked Teagan out so that the mages couldn't refuse the alliance

Alexius didn't show up til after the Conclave

[nightscrawl]

That's a remarkably thin thread to claim actual guilt. If she didn't actually participate in Teagan's expulsion herself, did she actually do anything wrong?
 
It also raises the question of "what could Fiona have realistically done against someone who could chase Teagan out of Ferelden's most defensible castle by his mere presence?"

 
Well I don't agree with it, I was merely answering the question. I'm sure a more anti-Fiona person can make a stronger case.
 
On the other hand, tacit approval can be a significant thing, generally, and is the way that a lot of wrongs are allowed to occur or continue. Fiona accepted the Tevinter aid because she was desperate, and as a result, Arl Teagan and his people were kicked out of Redcliffe castle. She ostensibly didn't do anything about it, because again, she was desperate. She may have thought it was wrong, but she overlooked it, or purposely ignored it because it wasn't helpful to her current situation to speak openly against it.
 
And you know, regardless of how desperate she was, it IS really crappy that it was allowed to happen. The ruler of Ferelden allowed the rebel mages to take refuge in Redcliffe and Arl Teagan opened his doors to them. Fiona's actions essentially spit in their faces and she turned to Tevinter for aid instead of the crown. I'll assume that is because she thought that Tevinter would be more likely to "help" fellow mages than the crown would be to anger the Chantry, but they had already defied the Chantry by giving them aid in the first place.

[Lulupab]

 
 

 So because the lawful ruler of a town was forced out of his home by a Tevinter magister, a powerful mage who has spent years researching magical theory, he really wasn't that invested in protecting his land? Remember that when he was kicked out he went straight to Denerim to request aid. This is why Alistair and/or Anora arrive immediately at the end of IHW.

 

And because Teagan was looking out for his own country's best interests rather than those of the Inquisition, a foreign institution on his border who held no legitimate claim to territory it held in his land, he's also not fit to rule? Sounds like you favor might makes right.

 

And because tranquil aren't good in a fight, the mages in Redcliffe were justified in not wondering where they had gone?

 

He was ousted as a ruler, but he was never kicked from town of Redcliff hence he "left". It goes without saying the reinforcements from Ferelden never arrive if the Inquisition does not side with mages. Alexius probably stops that from happening with time magic. So without Inquisition Teagan abandons his town and people for utter doom. So don't give me this "best interest" crap. Its naive. His people are alive and protected. The only best interest he is looking for is getting back his title. I found it quite realistic that only few people cared about him leaving, because he was not doing anything to help the people.

 

You are something else, I'm sure during war and hard time people actively search for disabled people! They might wish the enemies away and bring joy and happiness!

 

If you are going to play roleplay games you seriously need to put away hindsight and actually "play the role". If you think Teagan didn't want his title back above all else and if you think people in war and active danger go out of their way to look for disabled people I have bridge to sell you.

[Lulupab]

  And you know, regardless of how desperate she was, it IS really crappy that it was allowed to happen. The ruler of Ferelden allowed the rebel mages to take refuge in Redcliffe and Arl Teagan opened his doors to them. Fiona's actions essentially spit in their faces and she turned to Tevinter for aid instead of the crown. I'll assume that is because she thought that Tevinter would be more likely to "help" fellow mages than the crown would be to anger the Chantry, but they had already defied the Chantry by giving them aid in the first place.

 

I would agree with this, but remember Templars attacked and mages and people of Redcliff alike died. How can you rely on someone to protect you when they cannot protect their own people? If Fiona made that deal with Alexius before that attack, then we wouldn't be having this discussion because I would be totally against her decision. I just detect a very hard decision made at very hard time. Its easy to overlook and judge the situation with your hindsight, but many people in Fiona's shoes would either make a worst decision or just panic and fail.

[Shechinah]

You are convincing no one but yourself here about Clement. Because he never mentions the missing tranquil in conversation. In fact the disappearing of tranquil and usage of their skulls is all part of the side quests. There is no verbal mention of them in the game, only text. So yes, no one knew and cared about their disappearance. I'm not saying its a good thing that no one cared, but with circles gone they are not really useful to anyone, they cannot even fight.

 

Neither can the portion of Fiona's mages that are children unless Fiona has changed her stance on that particularly subject but judging by her response to Alexius, that's unlikely.

 

Leaving aside that rebel mages that took some of the Tranquil with them when the Circles fell, the Tranquil would be able to perform tasks better than some people due to their focus and methodical nature. They could be in charge of things such as organising, building, and farming.

 

Again, I consider it to be a problem that we are never allowed to bring up what happened to the Tranquil with Fiona. She could have said that she thought the Tranquil disappearances had something to do with Alexius' dislike of them and so she thought they might be safer if they left with the Arl's people when they were forced out.

[Shechinah]

 

Well I just assume that the presence of a Tevinter magister, likely to use magic, and possibly even blood magic, would be enough to intimidate him into leaving. He may have thought that doing so would spare lives. Note that I don't think this is the same as Teagan going, "Welp, the Tevinters are here, time to hoof it," because I doubt that was the case. You don't have to use physical force to make someone do something, only provide enough incentive through threat or intimidation; it amounts to the same thing.

 

 

Arl Teagan likely wasn't prepare for the arrival of magister of Tevinter and his entourage.

 

Considering the words Clemence use, it does not seem like he left by his own volition so I'm consider it more likely that it was under threat from Alexius.

 

Given that a number of his people were either being forced out or fleeing Alexius to escape his ire, Teagan might have thought it was better not to stay and "disappear" but instead to leave so that he could protect his people that were forced out and alert the crown as to what had happened. 
 

[Lulupab]

Neither can the portion of Fiona's mages that are children unless Fiona has changed her stance on that particularly subject but judging by her response to Alexius, that's unlikely.

 

Leaving aisde that rebel mages that took some of the Tranquil with them when the Circles fell, the Tranquil would be able to perform tasks better than some people due to their focus and methodical nature. They could be in charge of things such as organising, building, and farming.

 

Again, I consider it to be a problem that we are never allowed to bring up what happened to the Tranquil with Fiona. She could have said that she thought the Tranquil disappearances had something to do with Alexius' dislike of them and so she thought they might be safer if they left with the Arl's people when they were forced out.

 

The mages didn't take the Tranquil with them, the tranquil simply followed them because they had nowhere else to go. The tranquil are not actively hunted like the mages, but people find them weird so they won't find any other place. The tranquil did not aid mages in their rebellion and escape from circles either. Once the circles were empty the Tranquil made the choice of following mages. 

 

I'm not sure which "tasks" you mean here. None of their skills or talents has prepared them for wartime. All they have every done in circles have been shop keeping, cleaning etc... 

 

As for children, mages were not allowed to have children of their own in circles. So many mages are very emotional about the children in the circles and see them as their own children. Training them and watching them grow up. In a sense they have adopted them. So the answer here is obvious, people care about their children, but do not expect them to care about tranquil in the same way. The fact that they have not aided mages since the rebellion in anyway is just another factor, not the only one.

[Shechinah]

The mages didn't take the Tranquil with them, the tranquil simply followed them because they had nowhere else to go. The tranquil are not actively hunted like the mages, but people find them weird so they won't find any other place. The tranquil did not aid mages in their rebellion and escape from circles either. Once the circles were empty the Tranquil made the choice of following mages. 

 

Not according to Minaeve. Here is a transcripted excerpt from her dialogue;

Inquisitor: "You kept the Tranquil safe?"
Minaeve: "Yes,  the mages took some of them when my Circle rebelled. The rest were forgotten.-"

[Lulupab]

Not according to Minaeve. Here is a transcripted excerpt from her dialogue;

Inquisitor: "You kept the Tranquil safe?"
Minaeve: "Yes,  the mages took some of them when my Circle rebelled. The rest were forgotten.-"

 

There is codex saying how the Tranquil followed mages, I will post it here when I have time to look for it.

 

After reading that codex I interpreted Mina saying the mages took the tranquil with them because they asked them to. As I said no one else would take in tranquils.

[sniper_arrow]

There is codex saying how the Tranquil followed mages, I will post it here when I have time to look for it.

 

After reading that codex I interpreted Mina saying the mages took the tranquil with them because they asked them to. As I said no one else would take in tranquils.

 

Codex please.

[Lulupab]

Codex please.

 

The wiki usually gathers all codex data, so:

 

"Most mages attempt to ignore them or find them understandably frightening, and few appear to even attempt to forge a relationship with them." Its quite clear mages did not want them. Minaeve is a rare exception, one of the few mages who knew or appeared to care about the Tranquil during the Mage-Templar War in Dragon Age: Inquisition. She protected the Tranquil in her Circle during the chaos.

 

So with the exception of Minaeve no one asked or cared about the tranquil. It was their own decision to follow the mages, just like its their own decision to stay in the circles. You do realize once made Tranquil they were absolutely free to leave the circles right since they are no longer technically mages? They decided to stay.

 

Oh and this is from Oculara codex:

 

"There must be more Tranquil in the area — the rebels abandoned most of them when they fled their Circles."

 

There is another codex too, but this should be enough. I really don't have time to look for more right now.

[Shechinah]

The wiki usually gathers all codex data, so:

 

"Most mages attempt to ignore them or find them understandably frightening, and few appear to even attempt to forge a relationship with them." Its quite clear mages did not want them. Minaeve is a rare exception, one of the few mages who knew or appeared to care about the Tranquil during the Mage-Templar War in Dragon Age: Inquisition. She protected the Tranquil in her Circle during the chaos.

 

So with the exception of Minaeve no one asked or cared about the tranquil. It was their own decision to follow the mages, just like its their own decision to stay in the circles. You do realize once made Tranquil they were absolutely free to leave the circles right since they are no longer technically mages? They decided to stay.

 

What you quoted says nothing about whether or not it was the tranquil that choose to follow the rebel mages or if it was the rebel mages that choose to take the tranquil with them. It just states how mages generally felt about the tranquil.
 

[vbibbi]

That's a remarkably thin thread to claim actual guilt. If she didn't actually participate in Teagan's expulsion herself, did she actually do anything wrong?

 

It also raises the question of "what could Fiona have realistically done against someone who could chase Teagan out of Ferelden's most defensible castle by his mere presence?"

 

If you invited a friend of a friend to stay with you because they were having personal problems, and once they moved in, they invited a criminal to stay without asking you, and that criminal then kicked you out of your house, would you not hold the friend of a friend responsible at all? Because the criminal was more powerful than both of you, so it's not reasonable to expect them to protest you being kicked out of your home?

 

He was ousted as a ruler, but he was never kicked from town of Redcliff hence he "left". It goes without saying the reinforcements from Ferelden never arrive if the Inquisition does not side with mages. Alexius probably stops that from happening with time magic. So without Inquisition Teagan abandons his town and people for utter doom. So don't give me this "best interest" crap. Its naive. His people are alive and protected. The only best interest he is looking for is getting back his title. I found it quite realistic that only few people cared about him leaving, because he was not doing anything to help the people.

 

You are something else, I'm sure during war and hard time people actively search for disabled people! They might wish the enemies away and bring joy and happiness!

 

If you are going to play roleplay games you seriously need to put away hindsight and actually "play the role". If you think Teagan didn't want his title back above all else and if you think people in war and active danger go out of their way to look for disabled people I have bridge to sell you.

 

1) Please do not tell me how to play a game. I can play however I want, and just because your views don't match mine doesn't mean you can dictate your opinion to others.

2) You have repeatedly shown in this thread not to have picked up some in game information or misinterpreted it. So I'm going to take every opinion of yours on the game with a grain of salt.

3) It does not "go without saying" that the Fereldan ruler(s) would not appear without the Inquisition being there. Do you have a source for this? We do know that if the Chargers investigate Redcliffe if we do CotJ, the magister and mages have abandoned the castle. Not proof either way whether the Fereldan ruler came to Redcliffe. If anything, I assume the timelines for IHW vs. CotJ are the same except for the Herald's involvement, so everything else in the world still happens the same.

4) If you've listened to ambient dialogue in Redcliffe and some conversations, you would know that no non-mage in the village feels safe and secure. Many have already left because of Alexius.

5) Why would Teagan remaining in the village make more sense than him going directly to Denerim to petition aid from the monarch? His small amount of guards caught unaware would be much less effective than a contingent from the capital who knew what they were up against. Teagan making a symbolic but useless gesture by staying in the village isn't going to help anyone. And who is to say that when Alexius forced Teagan out that he didn't make sure Teagan left the Hinterlands completely? Why would he kick Teagan out of the castle but then be fine with him chilling in the tavern?

6) How does you being made at Teagan for being rude in Trespasser present any evidence that he was only interested in regaining power and not protecting his people?

7) I'm not saying the mages would have necessarily needed to perform search and rescue for the tranquil, although that would have raised my attitude toward them. But you said "I'm not saying its a good thing that no one cared, but with circles gone they are not really useful to anyone, they cannot even fight." Emphasis mine. This is essentially providing an excuse for why someone who is not "useful" is justified in being ignored.

 

The mages didn't take the Tranquil with them, the tranquil simply followed them because they had nowhere else to go. The tranquil are not actively hunted like the mages, but people find them weird so they won't find any other place. The tranquil did not aid mages in their rebellion and escape from circles either. Once the circles were empty the Tranquil made the choice of following mages. 

 

I'm not sure which "tasks" you mean here. None of their skills or talents has prepared them for wartime. All they have every done in circles have been shop keeping, cleaning etc... 

 

As for children, mages were not allowed to have children of their own in circles. So many mages are very emotional about the children in the circles and see them as their own children. Training them and watching them grow up. In a sense they have adopted them. So the answer here is obvious, people care about their children, but do not expect them to care about tranquil in the same way. The fact that they have not aided mages since the rebellion in anyway is just another factor, not the only one.

Mages are the ones who made the tranquil tranquil. They used to be fellow mages, possibly friends. So it is the responsibility of the mages to take care of the tranquil, and it's very likely that some mages would be just as emotional with former friends turned tranquil as they would with children. Think Maddox or possibly the relationship between Jowan and a mage!HOF if they're friends.

 

Morally, the Circles can't lobotomize the tranquil and then not be responsible for caring for them, especially since the tranquil can't really live independently. Minaeve tells us about this.

[vbibbi]

The wiki usually gathers all codex data, so:

 

"Most mages attempt to ignore them or find them understandably frightening, and few appear to even attempt to forge a relationship with them." Its quite clear mages did not want them. Minaeve is a rare exception, one of the few mages who knew or appeared to care about the Tranquil during the Mage-Templar War in Dragon Age: Inquisition. She protected the Tranquil in her Circle during the chaos.

 

So with the exception of Minaeve no one asked or cared about the tranquil. It was their own decision to follow the mages, just like its their own decision to stay in the circles. You do realize once made Tranquil they were absolutely free to leave the circles right since they are no longer technically mages? They decided to stay.

 

Oh and this is from Oculara codex:

 

"There must be more Tranquil in the area — the rebels abandoned most of them when they fled their Circles."

 

There is another codex too, but this should be enough. I really don't have time to look for more right now.

 

So the codex actually states that the tranquil were actively abandoned. That's a pretty strong word for the treatment the tranquil received; it implies a sense of responsibility that was discarded.

[sniper_arrow]

The wiki usually gathers all codex data, so:

 

"Most mages attempt to ignore them or find them understandably frightening, and few appear to even attempt to forge a relationship with them." Its quite clear mages did not want them. Minaeve is a rare exception, one of the few mages who knew or appeared to care about the Tranquil during the Mage-Templar War in Dragon Age: Inquisition. She protected the Tranquil in her Circle during the chaos.

 

So with the exception of Minaeve no one asked or cared about the tranquil. It was their own decision to follow the mages, just like its their own decision to stay in the circles. You do realize once made Tranquil they were absolutely free to leave the circles right since they are no longer technically mages? They decided to stay.

 

Oh and this is from Oculara codex:

 

"There must be more Tranquil in the area — the rebels abandoned most of them when they fled their Circles."

 

There is another codex too, but this should be enough. I really don't have time to look for more right now.

 

Link to codex please.

[Iakus]

That's a remarkably thin thread to claim actual guilt. If she didn't actually participate in Teagan's expulsion herself, did she actually do anything wrong?

 

Yes.  By siding with Alexius, she implicitly approves of what he does.

 

 

It also raises the question of "what could Fiona have realistically done against someone who could chase Teagan out of Ferelden's most defensible castle by his mere presence?"

She could have said "We don't want your help"

[Lulupab]

1) Please do not tell me how to play a game. I can play however I want, and just because your views don't match mine doesn't mean you can dictate your opinion to others.

You can play the game however you like, because the game is a private experience. But if you come on a public forum and make false judgements using all your hindsight which you have gotten from finishing the game to judge a in-game character that makes a decision reflecting the immediate situation be prepared to be called on your fallacy.
 

2) You have repeatedly shown in this thread not to have picked up some in game information or misinterpreted it. So I'm going to take every opinion of yours on the game with a grain of salt.

Ditto. People have different perspectives but I haven't said anything outright false. You raised the issue of what happened to Tranquil in Oculara codex, I said no one knows and there is no mention of the in the game. I was right there is no verbal mention of it at all, only in a single codex and on a side quest. That can and does easily imply no one except PC knows about it.
 

3) It does not "go without saying" that the Fereldan ruler(s) would not appear without the Inquisition being there. Do you have a source for this? We do know that if the Chargers investigate Redcliffe if we do CotJ, the magister and mages have abandoned the castle. Not proof either way whether the Fereldan ruler came to Redcliffe. If anything, I assume the timelines for IHW vs. CotJ are the same except for the Herald's involvement, so everything else in the world still happens the same.

The events of hushed whispers take minutes to happen, the Inquisitor and Dorian are sent in time but they return to that exact moment and clearly with that the time magic manipulations end there. Are we suppose to believe not a single soul not even Inquisition itself was aware of the marching army towards Redcliff? If you have a better explanation I'm all ears. The army literally comes out of nowhere. Venatori spies did not detect them, Leliana did not detect them, no one did. They appear soon after Alexius loses the amulet with which he casts time magic.

As for mages and the charges report. There are some Venatori inside Redcliff performing a ritual, and we know damn well where the mages are. They are marching on Haven. When there is no report of an invasion its far safer to assume the invasion didn't happen because I'm sure we would hear about an invasion of that size. Because we hear everything that happens to Templars if we side with mages, why should mages be different? With the evidence in hand everything points out to there being no invasion, unless you use the hindsight fallacy again and count the information you have from another playtrhough in which you sided with mages. This is usually a fallacy, more so when time magic is involved.
 

4) If you've listened to ambient dialogue in Redcliffe and some conversations, you would know that no non-mage in the village feels safe and secure. Many have already left because of Alexius.

There are many various ambient dialogues. Some agree and some don't. I just found one by opening the game and listening. This is two mothers talking about the situation in Redcliff, with the conclusion being:



So they are in fact safe, and I didn't say anything wrong. As far as Templar attacks are concerned, Alexius provided a safety Teagan failed to provide.

 

5) Why would Teagan remaining in the village make more sense than him going directly to Denerim to petition aid from the monarch? His small amount of guards caught unaware would be much less effective than a contingent from the capital who knew what they were up against. Teagan making a symbolic but useless gesture by staying in the village isn't going to help anyone. And who is to say that when Alexius forced Teagan out that he didn't make sure Teagan left the Hinterlands completely? Why would he kick Teagan out of the castle but then be fine with him chilling in the tavern?

If he really had that small amount of guards, then there is another valid reason for Fiona to accept Alexius's deal, which was the main discussion on this thread. Teagan failed to protect the mages and his people from Templar attacks, and later a few Venatori ousted him from power. He could have made a last stand like he did on DAO, Venatori do not have unlimited number like the undead and they die much easily. But he didn't have a real title to defend back then, did he? in DAO He cared about people not his riches in the castle.
 

6) How does you being made at Teagan for being rude in Trespasser present any evidence that he was only interested in regaining power and not protecting his people?

If you complete in hushed whispers he has every reason to believe Inquisition is there to help. But that statement is true in case of siding with Templars. Because Templars have pretty much invaded ferelden and Inquisition helps and rewards them.
 

7) I'm not saying the mages would have necessarily needed to perform search and rescue for the tranquil, although that would have raised my attitude toward them. But you said "I'm not saying its a good thing that no one cared, but with circles gone they are not really useful to anyone, they cannot even fight." Emphasis mine. This is essentially providing an excuse for why someone who is not "useful" is justified in being ignored.

Its not just the mages, according to various sources people literally get cringed around the tranquil, not to mention the tranquil are no longer counted as mages and they may leave the circle anytime they want. I was not talking about morality of this, but the facts of mage-tranquil relation. With few exceptions with Minaeve being one of them, the mages completely ignore the tranquil whether they are inside circles or rebelling outside of it. It was the tranquil's decision to follow them, just like it was their decision to stay in the circles when they could clearly leave.
 

Mages are the ones who made the tranquil tranquil. They used to be fellow mages, possibly friends. So it is the responsibility of the mages to take care of the tranquil, and it's very likely that some mages would be just as emotional with former friends turned tranquil as they would with children. Think Maddox or possibly the relationship between Jowan and a mage!HOF if they're friends.

No, majority of mages vehemently oppose tranquility. The Chantry and Templars made the tranquil, so the responsibility falls on them. Its them who take away their emotion and with it capacity to function like an actual human/elf. Some mages would feel emotional, as I said there are exception, but the majority don't and see them as lost causes at best.
 

Morally, the Circles can't lobotomize the tranquil and then not be responsible for caring for them, especially since the tranquil can't really live independently. Minaeve tells us about this.

Except the circles were an organization under the control of Chantry, mages were just part of it. They didn't have a say in most matters. Its like you are blaming the citizens for a situation the government has created. In this case the citizens are the mages, the government is the chantry and Templar enforcers with circle being the country.

[Lulupab]

Link to codex please.

http://dragonage.wik..._entry:_Oculara

in below link scroll down to "Tranquil in the society", its what you hear from Minaeve and other mages via investigate conversation. As well as at the end of each paragraph there is "[x]" that links to codex or other sources such as asunder.

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil

[Lulupab]

So the codex actually states that the tranquil were actively abandoned. That's a pretty strong word for the treatment the tranquil received; it implies a sense of responsibility that was discarded.

Sure, but the actual responsibility falls on Chantry and even Templars. Its they who have made the tranquil what they are, unable to function normally. In a sense they have "un-maged" them since as I said the tranquil can leave the circles.

[sniper_arrow]

There are many various ambient dialogues. Some agree and some don't. I just found one by opening the game and listening. This is two mothers talking about the situation in Redcliff, with the conclusion being:



So they are in fact safe, and I didn't say anything wrong. As far as Templar attacks are concerned, Alexius provided a safety Teagan failed to provide.

If he really had that small amount of guards, then there is another valid reason for Fiona to accept Alexius's deal, which was the main discussion on this thread. Teagan failed to protect the mages and his people from Templar attacks, and later a few Venatori ousted him from power. He could have made a last stand like he did on DAO, Venatori do not have unlimited number like the undead and they die much easily. But he didn't have a real title to defend back then, did he? in DAO He cared about people not his riches in the castle.

 

There's also a thing called a false sense of security. In this case, Alexius was prepping up the mages like lambs to a slaughterhouse. 

 

Also, can you provide source that Teagan failed to protect the mages and abandoning Redcliffe willy nilly? The way I see it, he was forcibly removed by Alexius to avoid further dissension. If Teagan really loves his people, the last thing he'll want them to do is to fight against a powerful magister and his army of mages. It's one thing to fight against a foreign enemy, it's another to have no choice but to leave his home so that his people can be spared from a potential bloodbath and seek help.  

 

Don't forget, if you have Connor in your WS and talked to him, he pretty much states what happened to his uncle:

 

https://youtu.be/VDY5NDhg9Fk?t=1m57s