15 réponses à ce sujet

[exogenesis1203]

I really like playing around with those choices
but sometimes the renegade choices just annoys me
I always assumed being renegade means he/she's ruthless and is willing do to whatever it takes to get the job done... and the mission is all that matter
and I simply wonder how does one relate renegade with pro-human racist ? it just doesn't feel right at all 

[ZOMBO6F]

Yeah,ther have been several threads about parogon/renagade choices.the best explanatoin I've seen is that parogon doesn't neccassary mean good and rnagade does'nt mean bad.IIMHO they reflect the mindset of the dev.some of the choices are obvios good or bad,some not so much you can argue as you stated tourself, that endorsing the pro-human party is racist therfore renagade

Modifié par ZOMBO6F, 28 janvier 2010 - 12:08 .

[BramAlam12345]

Well, it would make even less sense if the racist choices were paragon choices

[ReubenLiew]

Maybe they're trying to make a statement about bigotism being bad and universal love for your fellow sentient 'Man' as good?

[Eshaye]

I just did a quest I never encoutered in my other playthroughs, with Helena Blake I think. She asks you to go kill crime lords so she can take over and water the whole organization down and get rid of slavery. So I thought that sounded like a good thing.... Earned myself +25 renegade points just by accepting the mission!!



But you can also earn paragon points later on in the mission depending on how you conclude it, but still I thought that was funny how I couldn't do this purely on paragon. Maybe you can arrest her on the spot? I didn't try that, had a feeling I'd just lose out on content.

[Dethateer]

BramAlam12345 wrote...

Well, it would make even less sense if the racist choices were paragon choices

Not really, no. It's all about perspective.
For me, yes, it would make less sense, because I try not to be one, but for a person who sees racism as a good thing, then the paragon choice would be racist.
Good and evil aren't definite, and Bioware's way of getting around it kinda failed, though it still is one of the best so far.

[Zentrasi]

I always assumed the paragon and renegade choices in ME1 had a lot to do with your views vs the Alliance you worked for as well. If you did something that was against the values of the Alliance, but not necessarily something that would be considered evil, then you got renegade points.



It wasn't just about an individuals good or evil mindset it was also about politics.



I'm glad they fleshed out this system in ME2 though

[Zaisha_temp]

In my experience "Paragon" tends to mean "by the book" and "diplomatic" while "Renegade" translates as "ends justify the means" and "coercive".



With the race relations part being "make friends and solve problems through negotiation" and "we need to be strong ourselves because you can never be sure about outsiders and if we're strong enough we can do what we want" respectively.

[trickfred]

Eshaye wrote...

I just did a quest I never encoutered in my other playthroughs, with Helena Blake I think. She asks you to go kill crime lords so she can take over and water the whole organization down and get rid of slavery. So I thought that sounded like a good thing.... Earned myself +25 renegade points just by accepting the mission!!

But you can also earn paragon points later on in the mission depending on how you conclude it, but still I thought that was funny how I couldn't do this purely on paragon. Maybe you can arrest her on the spot? I didn't try that, had a feeling I'd just lose out on content.

(Spoiler)
You can do it purely Paragon. Refuse to help her, you get +Para points, and she gives you the coordinates anyways.

[MightierToaster]

I thought all choices were pretty obvious in whats bad and what's good.

[WarlordThor]

The choices, as I always saw it, reflect the societal context in which they are made. Just like in real life, your actions are viewed based on societies definitions of "good" or "bad" and do not always have anything to do with what may be "truly good" or "truly bad" (after all, these things may not exist).



Thus to me, the system was pretty good. If you did something that the majority of society would look down on, you get renegade points. Something peopel view as charitable or heroic, paragon.

[Eshaye]

trickfred wrote...

Eshaye wrote...

I just did a quest I never encoutered in my other playthroughs, with Helena Blake I think. She asks you to go kill crime lords so she can take over and water the whole organization down and get rid of slavery. So I thought that sounded like a good thing.... Earned myself +25 renegade points just by accepting the mission!!

But you can also earn paragon points later on in the mission depending on how you conclude it, but still I thought that was funny how I couldn't do this purely on paragon. Maybe you can arrest her on the spot? I didn't try that, had a feeling I'd just lose out on content.

(Spoiler)
You can do it purely Paragon. Refuse to help her, you get +Para points, and she gives you the coordinates anyways.

Awww! *smacks self*    Thank you!

[Dungeoness]

You have to allow yourself to accept that there are no strict meanings
of "Paragon" and "Renegade" in these games. Their interpretation should
be loose and fluid. Don't get bogged down with trying to make choices
you didn't like making in the game, or those that didn't "seem" one or
the other, into black and white.



I like Zaisha_temp's
interpretation, myself. I would also consider Paragon choices to, for
the most part, be the more "difficult" choice or action; the road less
traveled. Renegade actions will tend to be the choice that represents an
"unpopular" viewpoint or belief, and is often the "easy" way through a
situation. With that in mind, being a loyalist/xenophobe falls under
Renegade the same way that what we call racism on Earth today is. It's easy to dislike wholesale that which is unfamiliar, though most people wouldn't openly admit to racist tendencies.

As for helping Helena and the crime syndicate, I liken that to being an undercover cop (also renegade). Shepard's ultimate goal is to eliminate some real nasty criminals, but if she lets Helena go, her own crime spree continues. It's kind of the reverse working undercover. You have to let crime continue to occur, and even contribute to it, since you made the drastic choice to get "in" with the criminals, to bust them from the inside out once you finally have enough evidence.

[Series5Ranger]

Eshaye wrote...

I just did a quest I never encoutered in my other playthroughs, with Helena Blake I think. She asks you to go kill crime lords so she can take over and water the whole organization down and get rid of slavery. So I thought that sounded like a good thing.... Earned myself +25 renegade points just by accepting the mission!!

But you can also earn paragon points later on in the mission depending on how you conclude it, but still I thought that was funny how I couldn't do this purely on paragon. Maybe you can arrest her on the spot? I didn't try that, had a feeling I'd just lose out on content.

You can Paragon the whole thing by refusing the mission: She gives you the locations of the  Warlords anyway. Again at the end is a Paragon / Renegade situation. (Once you play ME2, you might run into her again)

Modifié par Series5Ranger, 29 janvier 2010 - 06:36 .

[exogenesis1203]

Zaisha_temp wrote...

In my experience "Paragon" tends to mean "by the book" and "diplomatic" while "Renegade" translates as "ends justify the means" and "coercive".

With the race relations part being "make friends and solve problems through negotiation" and "we need to be strong ourselves because you can never be sure about outsiders and if we're strong enough we can do what we want" respectively.

that's the whole point
yeah, the Council are a bunch of douchebag...but i can still understad their action...I mean come on ....let's be honest you have no actual proof at all
but humanity ? let's just say Udina and Ashley both make me lose faith in humanity ( after Ashley killed Wrex...I reload to save Wrex and killed her for that ! )

[Zaxares]

exogenesis1203 wrote...

let's just say Udina and Ashley both make me lose faith in humanity ( after Ashley killed Wrex...I reload to save Wrex and killed her for that ! )

Yeah... That, more than anything else, was why I never really took to Ashley.  Although to be fair to her, she was just trying to help. She saw what looked like a situation getting out of control, with an angry Krogan about to blast the face off of her commanding officer (and possibly more than that, if you are romancing her) with a shotgun... She did what she thought she had to do to save your life, even if it's an action I completely disagree with.