29 réponses à ce sujet

[VivainaDX]

If I were to speculate, I'd say the brand destroys a the part of their brain that calls forth magic and their separation from dreams and emotions is a side effect. The reason why a spirit touching them wouldn't work is because a piece of that spirits essence would get trapped in behind the lyrium brand damaged brain cells and cause insanity in the mage. I doubt there's any safe way to return them to their original, magic wielding selves, but it would be nice to at least see them able to connect to their emotions, even if they lose a good part of their pre-brand memories. 

[Aliceeverafter]

So where and how are the Seekers being branded in a manner that doesn't leave scars? How could they be branded without realizing it? Who is actually rendering them Tranquil when the only one person to be aware of the practice is the Lord Seeker? Does it really just end at being "touched" by a spirit, or is it something more? 

 

It feels like they just wanted to cash in with an "Oh snap" reveal, and preserve some amount of coolness for the Seekers, but they didn't really want to think about the specific mechanics behind it all. 

yep agree with this.

as they were part of the original inquisition, (along with the templars) what was it divided the two types - seekers and templars?

and as you say how do you brand all those people without anyone noticing?

[Gervaise]

I think the real problem was when they made restoration something that could be permanent, as with Pharamond, and then compounded when they made it the same process as creates Seekers.      Karl being restored temporarily sort of made sense because it was a unique situation and it didn't last.    Pharamond was odd because he claimed he had been restored by having his mind touched, then he became possessed (presumably straight after) and then he was exorcised by the faith spirit that occupied Wynne, while both minds were in the Fade.   On returning to the real world, Pharamond was still restored, at least so far as his emotions were concerned.   We never actually see him perform any magic but when later quizzed by the Divine, there is no intimation that it is only his emotions that are back and not everything else.   In any case the reason the Rite is performed is more to get rid of the spirit attracting emotions and block their connection to the Fade, which then has the side effect of removing their ability to do magic, rather than the other way round.   At least that is how it seems now, particularly in light of the revelations about the Seekers.  The Seeker vigil is not done to block magic but to protect from possession and in some way give them additional powers that do seem magical in what they can do: boiling someone's blood in their body seems very similar to the damage a blood mage can inflict.

 

The really odd thing is that Lambert says Pharamond is now an even greater risk, since his emotions are now heightened but despite everything that follows, including his despair at being condemned to being made tranquil again, no demon subsequently makes a play for him.   If emotions are what attracts demons and the Rite of Tranquility is to protect them from possession by removing those emotions, you'd think Pharamond would have been a beacon to demons, particularly within the confines of the White Spire where the Veil would already be thin.     So I have a feeling that we have been given a number of plot lines that seemed like a good idea at the time but make it nearly impossible to come up with a consistent bit of lore on the matter.

[VivainaDX]

The thing is, the Seeker ritual takes a year of fasting and prayer before they are introduced to the spirit, I don't think they take that long to tranquil a mage. Sure the results are the same (no emotion) but the processes are different and that difference means the 'cure' would most likely be different.

 

Ok, I didn't read the Lambert/Pharamond story, but I would challenge anyone saying that tranquiling a mage is meant to separate them from their emotions because their emotions attract demons. If it was emotions causing the possession issue, then mundanes as well as mages would be getting possessed. I would say that Lambert was more afraid of what an overly emotional Pharamond might say or do something that would spread doubt on the tranquility practice. 

 

Fact is, you tell a lie enough times it can become a common truth and people will accept it as such but if new evidence refuting it comes to light, suddenly that lie can no longer be held as truth. It's been what? 800 years or so since tranquiling mages has become a thing? In all that time, there's a good chance the original reasons for using it, has become obscured, just like the actual cause of mage possession can be obscured.

 

Do mages actually draw their magic from the fade, or do they draw it from life/creation magic? And if so, wouldn't it be possible that it is a high concentration of life/creation magic in one person that attracts the spirits that are trapped in the lifeless/creationless fade? It's just easier to justify destroying a mages mind, by blaming it on some connection to the fade, that makes them dangerous.

 

The way Solas described pre-veil days, it sounds like spirits were able to move around freely, like a river, they were connected to everything by magic, now that there's a veil altering the fade and creating the mortal realm they have lost that connection. The source of life/creation magic won't be found in the fade or the mortal realm. It's been dammed up some place else, only trickling into the mortal world and not even touching the fade.

 

Crap! I had purpose to my rant, now it's gone "POOF"! The cool thing about lore being inconsistent is, you get to come up with your own then. Anyway, I still say that the reason tranquility became a thing for mages started off as a way to separate a mage from their magic and not from the fade or their dangerous emotions, I also figure a tranquil Seeker and a tranquil mage are not the same thing, so the means of breaking tranquility in one, won't work on the other. 

[Sah291]

The mechanism has never been fully explained. The lyrium brand only appeared in DA2 and then seems to have disappeared again, since the Tranquil we meet in DAI do not have it. Anyway, for some reason, the mark of lyrium (brand or otherwise) seems to block your connection to the Fade (a bit like a super strengthened veil). This also apparently makes you "invisible" to spirits because of your lack of emotions. Why cutting you off from the Fade removes your emotions has never been fully explained either. After all dwarves cannot do magic because of their natural resistance to magic and they apparently do not dream or enter the Fade, yet they have emotions.

No idea what happens with Seekers. I think Cassandra would remember being branded with lyrium. So their method is a different one where the person empties themselves of all emotions through meditation and focusses on the Maker, thus attracting a faith spirit even though they are simply focussing, not showing emotion. It is also not clear whether the spirit stays with them or what but it then renders them immune to blood magic mind control and possession by any other spirit. Most Seekers are recruited as children, so I imagine it must have something to do with their mind being more open and malleable that allows this to work. It seems to have gone wrong in the case of mage Seekers which is why they realised it could be used to neutralise them. However, Ameridan seemed to have a familiar spirit that assisted him, so it is possible he underwent it successfully.

The spirit has to be attracted to the tranquil by someone else, because the spirit will normally not "see" them, unless they are in a place where the Veil is very thin. Apparently the spirit only has to touch their mind, not possess them for it to work.

As for the tattoo, well as I say, it only made a visible appearance in DA2, having not been present in DAO or in DAI, so I think that part can be disregarded. Whatever makes the mage tranquil, it can't simply be the physical presence of the lyrium, otherwise they would become tranquil again as soon as the spirit stopped touching their mind, just as Karl did in fact in DA2.

The Dwarves don't have a connection to the fade, but they do still seem to have a latent connection to the Stone, which has been speculated gives them a connection to the Titans, and therefore potentally a kind of earth based "magic" not based on the fade.

The abilities of Dwarves are often compared to the Tranquil though. Dagna implies it's similar but not exactly the same. The Dwarves still have emotion, but are generally also portrayed to be very grounded, mechanical, good engineers, builders, inventors, etc. Just as Tranquil are. For the Dwarves though, this is natural, and they have a connection to the Stone, even if it has been greatly diminished in modern Thedas. Tranquil human mages don't have any connection or knowledge of the Titans, though it looks like they also have a talent for runes and whatnot...so maybe they could form a connection with the Stone too I wonder?

I'm not sure the writers have really worked it out. But my guess, the Tranquility ritual used on mages is kind of a bastardized form of the original Seeker ritual...which was only intended to be temporary. The Seekers deliberately ground themselves and empty themselves of emotion, for the purpose of purification. It's done carefully and gradually over a long period of time through meditation, and then they restore themselves working with faith spirits afterwards. For mages, it is done quickly, and they are left that way, with no knowledge of how to reverse it.

Maybe the lyrium brands aren't necessary but just magically enhance the effect, and also serve as a mark to identify them.