154 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Think he he meant events that happen outside player universe are Canon but they may not have happened exactly as such. (Asunder and comics). They are tangently related thought last flight is dubious imo.

[TheKomandorShepard]

She ain't worse than Leliana or Tallis , at least we have to deal with her during only 1 quest. I guess bioware has a talent to create rather nasty mary sues.

 

I hope she will get star wars holiday special treatment and will be never mentioned again.

[Fredward]

Daily reminder that unlikeable ≠ badly written.

[Bowie Hawkins]

I have now laughed twice at people's comments about my description. There are a lot of things that suspension of disbelief masks for me. Now that you bring it up, why WOULD anyone grab a glowing ball that looked like it had just been used as some sort of weapon?

 

And with that, for me Inquisition became the story of an elf with all the reflexes and self-control of a labrador retriever.

[Dean_the_Young]

I feel like that as the Inquisitor, we're looking at Bianca at an outsiders perspective. We never get a chance to actually sit and talk with her; to be able to get to know the woman who has brought wondrous technology to a people that although they use and adore this tech, pretend she doesn't exist because of her caste. She has a bit of a sharp tongue, but that's to be expected of a friend of Varric, especially that she is closer to Varric, that I would argue, than Hawke is.

Bianca is in love with Varric; he is in love with her. Unfortunately, she had to marry someone she had no interest in for the benefit of her family. They're like Romeo and Juliet; the whole clan war thing, just without the weird murder-fest because of someone they'd know for like three days. Yet her own curiosity and misguided want to do good lead to Corypheus finding the Red Lyrium. 

Yes, she feels guilty, perhaps more-so because Varric is disappointed in her rather than the fact that many people either died or got hurt because of her. (Unintentionally I stress.) - The last words to the Inquisitor, the perceived threat, is light-hearted enough to brush off because I feel, or at least MY Inquisitor feels that it is simply a woman who is afraid that the man she cares for might die following the Inquisitor into a situation she has no control over. She's worried, it doesn't mean that she would ever act upon it.

 

I don't see why any of this stuff is supposed to make me care, though. I mean, yeah, apparently everyone and the brother in dwarf politics thinks she's a big deal, even though we never heard of her until DAI, but that's not the same as selling a good character to the consumer-audience. 'Super special amazing' =/= 'good.'

 

Bianca's got a similar problem to Fiona, who in the books and lore was supposed to be all sorts of special snowflake who broke all the rules, and in delivery was incompetent and so low in charisma that even most pro-mages distance themselves from her. Bioware certainly cared- she gets to appear in three separate plot lines, has an amazing resume, mother a fan-favorite, and figure-head one of the primary social causes in the series- but she's just so damn incompetent, she can't sell her own story. (Which, given the lack of opportunities to address in-game, probably wasn't intended to be her consistent ineptitude.)

 

 

Being a well-written character isn't the same as being popular, or nice. Vivienne is far from popular, is quite polarizing, and that's the proof of her creation. She's intended to be polarizing, she's unapologetically elitist, she's so modeled off of 'evil' tropes that she's made into a villainous by her own party companions, and that's her. She's not meant to be liked.

 

I don't get any sense of that from Bianca. Bioware's usually not subtle with their characters, a few remarkable exceptions excluded, and given how ham-handidly they tried to impress us with Bianca and her accomplishments, I really don't get the feeling that's what they were trying for. I think they really wanted us to like and be impressed with her and the story you just recounted... but I've never gotten the impression people actually liked it.

 

If Bioware was trying to make her an annoying character, well, mission accomplished. But a deliberately annoying character is still annoying.

[Cz-99]

Yeh, 'Smack-a-hoe' should've definitely been an option.

[Alaric]

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same Bianca? The Bianca who left Varric at the altar to marry someone who she didn't love, and then continued an emotional affair with a man who lived half a world away because she didn't have the guts to tell him they should both move on? Yeah, Bianca is horrible, and I'm just not going to see it any other way unless they choose to clarify a few things for us.

 

I don't see their romance as being at all Romeo and Juliet (which was in of itself a bad romance). Bianca was arranged by her family to marry someone. She decided to marry Varric instead. Then, right when they were supposed to get married, she changed her mind again and married the other guy. She then kept Varric on an emotional leash while they lived hundreds of miles away from each other, hardly ever seeing or speaking to each other, and then she comes back and claims to be deeply invested in his life. Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on that one.

 

Not for one moment do I believe that she "had to" marry her now-husband. She could have run away, and if she's as amazing as they made her out to be, she could have done it with ease. If Zevran, who was chased by the most lethal guild of assassins in Antiva and possibly elsewhere, could not only escape from the Crows but then return, kill a bunch of their operatives, and a guild master, plus countless others, then Bianca could have easily run away with Varric. She just chose not to. And yes, I know some of you are going to say "she did it for her family!" But from what little we know of her, she was causing ruckus and chaos that was detrimental to her family and to the clans, and if she had left she might have been doing them a favor. And if she DID choose to stay to keep them from being hurt, then why did she let Varric stay attached to her rather than telling him that it wasn't going to work? As far as I can tell, she's got her cake and she's eating it too. She's got a wealthy, intelligent husband who seems to treat her well, and a hunky guy on the side to hook up with once every 10 years, if he's lucky. That's not love. That's stupid on his part and enormously selfish and egotistical on hers.

 

She feels guilty? GOOD. She SHOULD. Varric told her not to tell ANYONE about the thaig (which he shouldn't have told anyone about to begin with), told her to leave it alone, leave it buried, and what does she do? She lies and says she won't do it, then proceeds to do exactly what he told her not to, and guess what! Now we have FREAKING RED TEMPLARS! Do you want mass murder, Bianca? Because this is how we get mass murder!

 

As far as I'm concerned, Bianca has no right to demand anything of the Inquisitor or Varric. She gave up the right to ask for anything when she used secret information to satisfy her own curiosity, the result of which was nothing short of horrific.

 

In closing: We may not see much of Bianca, but what we do see of her tells me that she is not only a bad character, but also a misguided and selfish person. Meanwhile, Varric is a fool for staying tied to a woman who is married to another man (and who married him after she told Varric that she'd marry him), who he also sees once or twice a decade if he's lucky. This story's ending is going to be predictably tragic, and the truly tragic thing about it is that Varric will realize it as such only when the final page is written, before he has a chance to change anything.

 ^ This, I like this a lot.

Yes, she is all of these things. And rightly so, she gave Varric up, she left him when they were supposed to leave together because she turned around to marry the man. Did she do it to protect him? Did she do it for personal gain? We don't know for sure; we don't know what exactly went through her mind.

Perhaps Varric and Bianca could have run from the Carta and the Assassins sent after them. But perhaps Bianca didn't want that for him, perhaps she cared enough to save him from a life that she knows he would find miserable; she might have been looking further into the future than we has at the time, unless we can read minds, we won't know her true intentions.

She's got a workshop in Val Royeaux and her inventions are hailed as miraculous all across Thedas and in Orzammar itself, at this point, she might just be too self-absorbed to really care about pursuing this thing with Varric anymore, but even he seems hesitant now. Yet, he is clinging to the past as he struggles with the future. Varric cares about people and he cares about Bianca, even if she did do something terrible to him; yet if he keeps going back to her and gets assassins sent after him each time, she might just be worth it. (Or you know, it is totally toxic and we need to hold an Inquisitorial Intervention for him.)

The Romeo and Juliet comparison is hinted more at the fact that the two almost started a clan war because of their love; what happened after isn't. Perhaps it went over some heads and was a bad choice.

I agree that Bianca shouldn't have told anyone, just like Varric wanted her not to; hell I think everyone does. Unforunately, again, she most likely thought she was doing this for the greater good as she foolishly put her trust in a 'Grey Warden'. C'mon, at this point we all know better than to do that. But I don't remember seeing anything about Bianca making a profit from the whole thing, so why did she do it?

All in all, you're quite right, we need more clarification; that's just how I see it though.

[Alaric]

I don't see why any of this stuff is supposed to make me care, though. I mean, yeah, apparently everyone and the brother in dwarf politics thinks she's a big deal, even though we never heard of her until DAI, but that's not the same as selling a good character to the consumer-audience. 'Super special amazing' =/= 'good.'

 

Bianca's got a similar problem to Fiona, who in the books and lore was supposed to be all sorts of special snowflake who broke all the rules, and in delivery was incompetent and so low in charisma that even most pro-mages distance themselves from her. Bioware certainly cared- she gets to appear in three separate plot lines, has an amazing resume, mother a fan-favorite, and figure-head one of the primary social causes in the series- but she's just so damn incompetent, she can't sell her own story. (Which, given the lack of opportunities to address in-game, probably wasn't intended to be her consistent ineptitude.)

 

 

Being a well-written character isn't the same as being popular, or nice. Vivienne is far from popular, is quite polarizing, and that's the proof of her creation. She's intended to be polarizing, she's unapologetically elitist, she's so modeled off of 'evil' tropes that she's made into a villainous by her own party companions, and that's her. She's not meant to be liked.

 

I don't get any sense of that from Bianca. Bioware's usually not subtle with their characters, a few remarkable exceptions excluded, and given how ham-handidly they tried to impress us with Bianca and her accomplishments, I really don't get the feeling that's what they were trying for. I think they really wanted us to like and be impressed with her and the story you just recounted... but I've never gotten the impression people actually liked it.

 

If Bioware was trying to make her an annoying character, well, mission accomplished. But a deliberately annoying character is still annoying.

I feel that if we got more exposure to Bianca in DA:I or a future Bioware game and learnt more about; what she is currently doing, what her stance with Varric is right now and why she decided to make the choices that she did, she'd be more interesting or at least a little bit more understandable. After all, after two games of wondering why Varric's crossbow was named Bianca, we only saw the woman for ten minutes and had maybe two pages of her in the graphic novel.

[Yermogi]

I agree that Bianca shouldn't have told anyone, just like Varric wanted her not to; hell I think everyone does. Unforunately, again, she most likely thought she was doing this for the greater good as she foolishly put her trust in a 'Grey Warden'. C'mon, at this point we all know better than to do that. But I don't remember seeing anything about Bianca making a profit from the whole thing, so why did she do it?

Bianca did it solely because she was curious. She wanted to know more about the red lyrium that drove the knight commander and the brother of her lover insane, even when he lover told her explicitly NOT to try to find it. How could lying to him and looking it up anyway go wrong? I see nothing amiss with this plan! /sarcasm

[In Exile]

You and I have a different definition of flippancy. "Get him killed and I'll feed you your own eyeballs, Inquisitor." is not something I consider flippant: it is something I consider a threat especially given that she says it in a tone that indicates she's serious. A part of the reason I don't like it is because I don't recall my character having done anything that warranted that threat or her suspecion that my character might.

I've seen it asked before so I'll provide a preemptive answer in case anyone had intended to ask; No, I wouldn't have liked it or thought it was romantic if it was my love interest that made that remark to another character.

Beside that remark, though, I'm indifferent towards this Bianca as I didn't find her interesting.

Note: As far as I know, Varric is a member of the Inquisition by his own volition and knows the risks that he might face. The Inquisitor did not volunteer him against his will.

It's hilarious. Like, it's not even remotely threatening because Bianca isn't a threat. And more to the point, it was after her fight with Varric. She's just trying to lash out at someone because Varric chewed her out. Threats are always laughable when you're the ubermensch.

[Alaric]

Bianca did it solely because she was curious. She wanted to know more about the red lyrium that drove the knight commander and the brother of her lover insane, even when he lover told her explicitly NOT to try to find it. How could lying to him and looking it up anyway go wrong? I see nothing amiss with this plan! /sarcasm

O'aye.

[In Exile]

This... is actually a valid and excellent point. I hadn't considered the issue from that angle. The relationship has been terrible for a long time and everyone knows it but Varric... that is, if Varric told anyone about it. And now that we know about it, there's a side of Varric that bothers us because, as you said, he didn't really have flaws before. But this is a glaring flaw that we can't ignore- he's in a horrible relationship and doesn't know it, or doesn't want to acknowledge it. And yes, it does make us look at him as being somewhat pathetic now. Maybe that was their goal all along.

Now that I'm looking at the entire thing in this light, I'm actually growing more appreciative of this entire idea. It's not that Varric is pathetic now- it's that he's always had this foolish, miserable side to him, and we just never knew it because we were never in a situation where we could see it. And now that we do, it's changed our perspectives of him so that we see all of him, not just the flawless side that he presents.

Yes, yes... I am very much liking this now. I actually approve. I still think Bianca is annoying as hell, but I like the fact that he's no longer our perfect Paragon of Dwarven Manliness (or at least he's not mine). Now if only we could call him out on this...

The other thing to take away is that Varric isn't necessarily the one being taken for a ride in that relationship. The subtext as I see it is that Bianca very much wants to be with him and wasn't adverse to a life on the run - but Varric was, and arguably for her. It seems very much like a situation where he pushed her away based on what he thought was best for her, but he never (and she never) could really cut off ties. Remember, this all starts with Bianca doing something stupid to still be a part of his life and help him out, until she messes up and has to go to him to fix it up. It's a toxic relationship, and one they've created together.

So you ultimately have that toxicity bleed over on the Inquisitor when Varric chewed her out and Bianca really couldn't get in a word.

[sniper_arrow]

She ain't worse than Leliana or Tallis , at least we have to deal with her during only 1 quest. I guess bioware has a talent to create rather nasty mary sues.

 

I hope she will get star wars holiday special treatment and will be never mentioned again.

 

What's a Star Wars holiday treatment?

 

Also, where was it stated that Biana and Varric were supposed to get married?

[Yermogi]

The other thing to take away is that Varric isn't necessarily the one being taken for a ride in that relationship. The subtext as I see it is that Bianca very much wants to be with him and wasn't adverse to a life on the run - but Varric was, and arguably for her. It seems very much like a situation where he pushed her away based on what he thought was best for her, but he never (and she never) could really cut off ties. Remember, this all starts with Bianca doing something stupid to still be a part of his life and help him out, until she messes up and has to go to him to fix it up. It's a toxic relationship, and one they've created together.

So you ultimately have that toxicity bleed over on the Inquisitor when Varric chewed her out and Bianca really couldn't get in a word.

I agree with the relationship being toxic, but not that Varric pushed her away. From everything we've seen and the things I've read, Varric was  crazy about her and wanted to be with her. He asked her to marry him and run away with him, and she's the one who literally left him standing at the altar. He didn't push her away- she left him hanging, and then Varric left for his own safety, as her family then sent assassins after him.

[TheKomandorShepard]

What's a Star Wars holiday treatment?

 

Also, where was it stated that Biana and Varric were supposed to get married?

Treating something like it never happened included by creator cus that thing was just terrible.

[thats1evildude]

Daily reminder that unlikeable ≠ badly written.

I know. Sometimes people forget that.

Still, I'm not sure if Bianca is "meant" to be unlikeable.

[nightscrawl]

I know. Sometimes people forget that.

Still, I'm not sure if Bianca is "meant" to be unlikeable.

 
I don't think she is, in the same way that Jennifer Hepler "went out of her way to make Sebastian not preachy." Still, some people loathe the character for it, regardless of her intention when writing him.
 
In DA2, Bianca was this mysterious figure for whom Varric named his crossbow and who supposedly had a hand in its creation. We get to see her in the Fade sequence in the comics. In DAI, before we meet her Varric is similarly vague about his crossbow; there are a few randomized fabrications that Varric tells the Inquisitor when they ask about it, meant to be humorous for their implausibility.
 
Being a popular character, there were lamentations that Varric was not a romance option in DA2, and then further requests for him to finally be one in DAI, but Bianca kept that from happening. She was hyped up in an extraordinary way. I think her appearance in DAI, the events surrounding it, her attitude toward Varric, her attitude toward the Inquisitor, and her HUGE screw up (however unintentional) in relation to the overall plot leaves a bad taste in many players' mouths. This is the woman Varric has been pining away for for 15 years?
 
I agree with those that view the whole thing as pathetic. Varric is now a pathetic figure. I've never been keen on his presence in DAI and this thread helped me understand why that is. The humor is still there, but there is a morose quality to it that wasn't present in DA2 (where he merely had a touch of cynicism). It was unpleasant to see him change in this way, however understandable the reasons for those changes are.
 
I thought vbibbi's post perfectly captured the reason for so much of the player dislike,

I think it's the presentation which causes so many people to dislike her. She gets the last word (which is a similar issue many have to Vivienne), she is never officially held accountable for her actions (a reason why so many people dislike Fiona, as well) and her response is always hostile regardless of our actions. She encapsulates a lot of the writing issues I had with DAI: lack of variation based on player choice, karma houdinis, and mandated smarter than thou personalities.

[Lady Artifice]

There's a reason that most courts cannot use "I'll kill you" as the sole evidence to convict someone, if the person being spoken to is later murdered. It's a common thing people say angrily in the heat of the moment, it doesn't mean people will actually follow through on it.

 

Bianca's threat is the same as the stereotype of the overprotective father taking the boyfriends of their teenage daughter aside, to impress upon them what might happen, should they get them home late and with disheveled clothes. Not often said as an actual threat, but more a minor warning and expression of concern for someone they love's safety and well-being.

 

And look at it this way, how is Bianca's comment any different than Tali telling Garrus to shut up by saying "I have a shotgun". Of course, Tali and Garrus are friends, but the point remains that it's not something that is meant to be taken seriously.

 

I honestly think it is very different. Tali and Garrus are friends, and there is a difference between an offhand joke threat between friends, and something you say to a practical stranger about inflicting bodily harm on them.

 

It isn't that I think she was serious, I don't. I think that's her idea of asking the Inquisitor to look out for Varric.  However I also don't think her intent renders her phrasing any less pompous or thoughtless. The Inquisitor is trying to save the entire world, of course they can't assure the safety of everyone involved. Implying that they're more likely to do so in Varric's case for fear of her disapproval is the part that paints her in such a poor light. The fact that she was under emotional strain is an extenuating circumstance, but I can't understand the idea that it excuses such an extreme example of rudeness.

 

I appreciate your empathy and understanding, Sifr, that you can be able to see her side of the situation so clearly, but I seriously don't think you (for all your tolerance of her doing so) would use a casual threat as a way to express concern.

[Lady Artifice]

Daily reminder that unlikeable ≠ badly written.

 

I don't think that's necessarily the common take away with Bianca specifically, though it is admittedly a frequent confusion on this forum. I, at least, very much felt that the intent of the writing was to depict Bianca sympathetically. If that's correct, then having other characters repeatedly shill her while having the character herself act like it's simply her due is historically a bad way to create the desired effect. I'm reminded of Lana Lang on Smallville with Bianca, where the writers seemed determined to convince the audience that the character is "the real magic of the show."

 

On the other hand, I do think the judgments on Varric and Bianca's relationship go a bit overboard. None of us really know all of the specifics.

[thats1evildude]

I can't judge Bianca on her relationship with Varric. I can judge her for her behaviour towards me.

[veeia]

I found Bianca well written, but annoying. I don't think she's a Mary Sue at all. I mean I dislike that label in general but it doesn't really apply to her. She's got glaring personality flaws, including arrogance, which is why she's all "I'm so great la la la", and the only other person who really describes her as the most amazing person ever is Varric, who is clearly emphasizing her specialness in order to justify his relationship with her. Not to mention her entire role in the game is to mess up and to disappoint Varric/put him in danger.

 

I like her role in the narrative because of what has already been discussed thoroughly: she humanizes Varric. They have an unhealthy relationship that he is desperately clinging to and he uses his narrative abilities (usually his strength) to prop it up. There are a lot of qualities that Varric has that were necessary for him to be the amazing, supportive friend he was to everyone in DA2, and those exact qualities are what make him cling to this relationship. He's passive in his relationships and refuses to give up on people and will take a lot of crap. I love that this quality ended up hurting him a bit by putting him in this relationship where he's never going to be fully happy, because that's realistic. It's sad. But if anything it makes him less of a "Mary Sue". And before Inquisition he fit that a hell of a lot more than Bianca. He had a tragic past, was good at everything he did, everyone liked him, anyone who was mean to him was probably a bad person with no cause, was funny and always knew what to say, etc.  People just weren't bothered by it because they liked him.

 

And re her last comment. Bianca very much strikes me as a person who always wants to appear put together and in charge. She's got a very assertive and confident tone at all times and reacts to any suggestion that she's not fully capable with disdain. I don't know where all of it comes from, but I imagine the surface dwarf thing has something to do with it, given her comments about never becoming a paragon. She feels like she has to prove herself at all times and doesn't want to show any weakness.  So after she's just failed, and been cut down by the person she loves, she snaps at you because she's frustrated and worried, but the reason it comes out as a threat is because she feels powerless and its a cheap way to feel powerful. It's irritating, but it's sad more than anything.

 

tl;dr: Bianca is a flawed, believable character who adds a lot to the story. She's very human. But sometimes people can be understandable and still irritate you, lmao. That type of person tends to frustrate me irl, even if understanding them makes it easier to interact with them, so she frustrated me too. If we'd had more time to talk to her, I might have warmed to her, but in this case, it felt like I was just brief collateral damage of her issues.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I found Bianca well written, but annoying. I don't think she's a Mary Sue at all. I mean I dislike that label in general but it doesn't really apply to her. She's got glaring personality flaws, including arrogance, which is why she's all "I'm so great la la la", and the only other person who really describes her as the most amazing person ever is Varric, who is clearly emphasizing her specialness in order to justify his relationship with her. Not to mention her entire role in the game is to mess up and to disappoint Varric/put him in danger.

 

I like her role in the narrative because of what has already been discussed thoroughly: she humanizes Varric. They have an unhealthy relationship that he is desperately clinging to and he uses his narrative abilities (usually his strength) to prop it up. There are a lot of qualities that Varric has that were necessary for him to be the amazing, supportive friend he was to everyone in DA2, and those exact qualities are what make him cling to this relationship. He's passive in his relationships and refuses to give up on people and will take a lot of crap. I love that this quality ended up hurting him a bit by putting him in this relationship where he's never going to be fully happy, because that's realistic. It's sad. But if anything it makes him less of a "Mary Sue". And before Inquisition he fit that a hell of a lot more than Bianca. He had a tragic past, was good at everything he did, everyone liked him, anyone who was mean to him was probably a bad person with no cause, was funny and always knew what to say, etc.  People just weren't bothered by it because they liked him.

 

And re her last comment. Bianca very much strikes me as a person who always wants to appear put together and in charge. She's got a very assertive and confident tone at all times and reacts to any suggestion that she's not fully capable with disdain. I don't know where all of it comes from, but I imagine the surface dwarf thing has something to do with it, given her comments about never becoming a paragon. She feels like she has to prove herself at all times and doesn't want to show any weakness.  So after she's just failed, and been cut down by the person she loves, she snaps at you because she's frustrated and worried, but the reason it comes out as a threat is because she feels powerless and its a cheap way to feel powerful. It's irritating, but it's sad more than anything.

 

tl;dr: Bianca is a flawed, believable character who adds a lot to the story. She's very human. But sometimes people can be understandable and still irritate you, lmao. That type of person tends to frustrate me irl, even if understanding them makes it easier to interact with them, so she frustrated me too. If we'd had more time to talk to her, I might have warmed to her, but in this case, it felt like I was just brief collateral damage of her issues.

Except none of those flaws are even brought up, she is treated in-universe as greatest thing ever and you can't even call her out. One time she can be called out is pretty much disregarded, despite all damage she has done and being unapologetic about it you are forced to let her free and to add salt to the wound she outright threatens you and you aren't allowed to call her on that as well, pretty much she less extreme version of Leliana.

 

In the end if narrative doesn't acknowledge character flaws that can be easily noticed by the player and doesn't allow on reasonable response to character words and actions it is bad writing. This is why pretty much she is Mary Sue, because story doesn't acknowledges her BS and tries to push character as greatest thing you have ever saw.

[vbibbi]

 
I don't think she is, in the same way that Jennifer Hepler "went out of her way to make Sebastian not preachy." Still, some people loathe the character for it, regardless of her intention when writing him.
 

 

Interesting, thank you for sharing that link. It's funny, some of Gaider's posts can come across as a bit defensive and stubborn. I totally respect him for even engaging with the fan community, as I don't think I'd have the stones to do so with a creative work, and I respect his writing, but sometimes he doesn't seem open to fan reactions that go against Bioware's intended reactions. He can come across as petulant that something in a game wasn't as well received as he thinks it should have been, or that people had differing interpretations of his original vision.

 

Some of the responses to his post I think are spot on and emphasize that if characters, stories and cultures are inspired by the real world, Bio can't then expect audiences not to compare the game to those real world analogues. And sometimes if a character isn't as successful as you'd planned, just own up to it and accept the feedback, even if you don't agree with it. Don't just get in a huff because the special snowflake wasn't to everyone's tastes.

 

 

Spoiler

So… no. I don’t see him as a religious fanatic, shoving his beliefs down everyone’s throat and trying to convert them or holding anyone else’s beliefs against them. Nor do I hate him. He has a pretty agreeable disposition and is unfailingly eager and positive most of the time (sometimes resulting in unintentional cluelessness). But I don’t think it’s fair to definitively insist that he isn’t preachy, because what someone considers ‘preachy’ largely depends on a lot of subjective factors, and if you’re shocked that people get passionate and touchy about religious or moral concepts no matter how hard you try to water them down or soften their potential for offense, I have to wonder what rock you’ve been living under.

 

Spoiler

I don’t hate Sebastian and I haven’t really thought about his level of preachiness compared to other characters. What stands out about him, however, is that he does have a lot of dialogue basically telling other characters to accept what they went through and forget their abuses, with a somewhat patronizing implication that they’re exaggerating their problems in there as well. And, hey, in light of what I went through in real life at the hands of people involved with an institution the Chantry is an expy of, and in light of those people telling me the exact same thing many times, I’m not going to take kindly to a character in a game spouting the same harmful nonsense at me.

[veeia]

Except none of those flaws are even brought up, she is treated in-universe as greatest thing ever and you can't even call her out. One time she can be called out is pretty much disregarded, despite all damage she has done and being unapologetic about it you are forced to let her free and to add salt to the wound she outright threatens you and you aren't allowed to call her on that as well, pretty much she less extreme version of Leliana.

 

In the end if narrative doesn't acknowledge character flaws that can be easily noticed by the player and doesn't allow on reasonable response to character words and actions it is bad writing. This is why pretty much she is Mary Sue, because story doesn't acknowledges her BS and tries to push character as greatest thing you have ever saw.

 

I don't think she's treated in-universe as the greatest thing ever, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. Her flaws are obvious, Varric dances around them when you talk about her, and he directly confronts her about it in that quest ('you can't fix everything' bit is talking about her control issues). It would be nice to have more ways to react to her, I agree, but I think that holds true for almost every character in the game, as Inquisition isn't the greatest at offering a huge variety of ways to respond in general. My guess is they didn't want the player to get in there and be too aggressive because it's not the player's story, it's Varrics, so if you could interfere that much and step in and point out all her flaws and rip her apart, that takes away from his agency, and it's important for what they wanted to do with his arc. It's another example of companion agency ursurping player agency, blah blah.  The story absolutely acknowledges her BS imo, it's just that she and Varric don't ever fully confront it. And because Varric not being able to confront is essential to what they wanted to do with his character, they didn't let you do it either. I never felt like she was being pushed as the greatest thing I have ever seen, and I don't think she was supposed to be read that way at all.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don't think she's treated in-universe as the greatest thing ever, but I'm not sure what you mean by that. Her flaws are obvious, Varric dances around them when you talk about her, and he directly confronts her about it in that quest ('you can't fix everything' bit is talking about her control issues). It would be nice to have more ways to react to her, I agree, but I think that holds true for almost every character in the game, as Inquisition isn't the greatest at offering a huge variety of ways to respond in general. My guess is they didn't want the player to get in there and be too aggressive because it's not the player's story, it's Varrics, so if you could interfere that much and step in and point out all her flaws and rip her apart, that takes away from his agency, and it's important for what they wanted to do with his arc. It's another example of companion agency ursurping player agency, blah blah.  The story absolutely acknowledges her BS imo, it's just that she and Varric don't ever fully confront it. And because Varric not being able to confront is essential to what they wanted to do with his character, they didn't let you do it either. I never felt like she was being pushed as the greatest thing I have ever seen, and I don't think she was supposed to be read that way at all.

 

Once again, her flaws are easy to notice to the player but disregarded in-universe while constantly you have to hear how she is greatest thing ever.You can't call her out, or even point her flaws ,nor her flaws are ever brought up, only exception is whole red lyrium thing (that is quickly disregarded) and that is one of many things you could call her out for but only thing that is acknowledged by narrative and only thing you can call her out for.

 

That isn't good excuse, you have resonable amount of agency during other companions quests allowing for multiple solutions, for example you can verbally demolish Sera on her actions and even kick her out (while not perfect at least it is something).

 

How story does acknowledge it if no one in the story acknowledges it, nor is allowed to acknowledge it?Just because it is obvious doesn't make story acknowledges it, in fact it makes thing even worse because despite being obvious everyone in-universe fails to notice obvious.