154 réponses à ce sujet

[vbibbi]

Once again, her flaws are easy to notice to the player but disregarded in-universe while constantly you have to hear how she is greatest thing ever.You can't call her out, or even point her flaws ,nor her flaws are ever brought up, only exception is whole red lyrium thing (that is quickly disregarded) and that is one of many things you could call her out for but only thing that is acknowledged by narrative and only thing you can call her out for.

 

That isn't good excuse, you have quite a agency during other companions quests allowing for multiple solutions, for example you can verbally demolish Sera on her actions and even kick her out (while not perfect at least it is something).

 

How story does acknowledge it if no one in the story acknowledges it, nor is allowed to acknowledge it?Just because it is obvious doesn't make story acknowledges it, in fact it makes thing even worse because despite being obvious everyone in-universe fails to notice obvious.

 

But apart from Varric, who will obviously be biased, and those dwarfs at the Winter Palace discussing the technology she made, who else in the game actually talks about Bianca? No one else that I recall tries to sell her as the bee's knees; 99% of our impression of her comes through Varric.

 

I think the problem, as veeia points out, is that after she leaves and the quest ends, there is no reaction from the Inquisitor or resolution to the situation. It's kind of just dropped.

[phoray]

Interesting, thank you for sharing that link. It's funny, some of Gaider's posts can come across as a bit defensive and stubborn. I totally respect him for even engaging with the fan community, as I don't think I'd have the stones to do so with a creative work, and I respect his writing, but sometimes he doesn't seem open to fan reactions that go against Bioware's intended reactions. He can come across as petulant that something in a game wasn't as well received as he thinks it should have been, or that people had differing interpretations of his original vision.

 

Some of the responses to his post I think are spot on and emphasize that if characters, stories and cultures are inspired by the real world, Bio can't then expect audiences not to compare the game to those real world analogues. And sometimes if a character isn't as successful as you'd planned, just own up to it and accept the feedback, even if you don't agree with it. Don't just get in a huff because the special snowflake wasn't to everyone's tastes.

 

 

Spoiler

So… no. I don’t see him as a religious fanatic, shoving his beliefs down everyone’s throat and trying to convert them or holding anyone else’s beliefs against them. Nor do I hate him. He has a pretty agreeable disposition and is unfailingly eager and positive most of the time (sometimes resulting in unintentional cluelessness). But I don’t think it’s fair to definitively insist that he isn’t preachy, because what someone considers ‘preachy’ largely depends on a lot of subjective factors, and if you’re shocked that people get passionate and touchy about religious or moral concepts no matter how hard you try to water them down or soften their potential for offense, I have to wonder what rock you’ve been living under.

 

Spoiler

I don’t hate Sebastian and I haven’t really thought about his level of preachiness compared to other characters. What stands out about him, however, is that he does have a lot of dialogue basically telling other characters to accept what they went through and forget their abuses, with a somewhat patronizing implication that they’re exaggerating their problems in there as well. And, hey, in light of what I went through in real life at the hands of people involved with an institution the Chantry is an expy of, and in light of those people telling me the exact same thing many times, I’m not going to take kindly to a character in a game spouting the same harmful nonsense at me.

 

I haven't played with DLC Sebastian before, I'm going to soon. However, I looked up his banter, and I can assuredly say that Hepler failed spectacularly at his -not preachiness. - He doesn't have to say "Come to church now or burn" to fall in that category. He is absolutely one of those arrogant, "Live by example and all the heathens will flock to the Chantry because I'm obviously so awesome at being patient and accepting" thumpers. He also straight up invites, but does not order, party members to come to the Chantry, specifically Fenris and Isabella. Isabella unapologetically laughs in his face. I'm conflicted on the Fenris thing, because he is such an angry elf I can't help but want him to find some peace even if I think that peace is wrapped in a lie.

[nightscrawl]

My guess is they didn't want the player to get in there and be too aggressive because it's not the player's story, it's Varrics, so if you could interfere that much and step in and point out all her flaws and rip her apart, that takes away from his agency, and it's important for what they wanted to do with his arc.

OH this is a great point and can certainly be applied to most follower quests: it's about them, learning about them, helping them, and the player and their PC is just along for the ride for the most part. I actually don't mind this overmuch. It's not like there aren't dialogue options, there are, but the responses to her are simply not what many players would prefer them to be. That is one of the pitfalls of the computer RPG.

[TheKomandorShepard]

But apart from Varric, who will obviously be biased, and those dwarfs at the Winter Palace discussing the technology she made, who else in the game actually talks about Bianca? No one else that I recall tries to sell her as the bee's knees; 99% of our impression of her comes through Varric.

 

I think the problem, as veeia points out, is that after she leaves and the quest ends, there is no reaction from the Inquisitor or resolution to the situation. It's kind of just dropped.

 

It doesn't matter who talks about her, what matters that story did nothing to acknowledge her flaws while constantly praises her to heavens.While i understand that Varric is biased, Inquistor by any mean isn't and yet game outright refuse to allow you call her out on her BS.In the end this is bad writing because game doesn't call her out nor allows you on reasonable response that wouldn't be in her favor.

 

 

OH this is a great point and can certainly be applied to most follower quests: it's about them, learning about them, helping them, and the player and their PC is just along for the ride for the most part. I actually don't mind this overmuch. It's not like there aren't dialogue options, there are, but the responses to her are simply not what many players would prefer them to be. That is one of the pitfalls of the computer RPG.

Actualy wrong, you can call out companions (or other people/groups) on their actions (assuming they did something) and there are multiple resolutions of their quests. For example aside from Sera you can call out Blackwall during his quest, you can demolish Qunari during Iron Bull Quest , same with seekers in Cassandra quest and goes on.

[veeia]

Once again, her flaws are easy to notice to the player but disregarded in-universe while constantly you have to hear how she is greatest thing ever.You can't call her out, or even point her flaws ,nor her flaws are ever brought up, only exception is whole red lyrium thing (that is quickly disregarded) and that is one of many things you could call her out for but only thing that is acknowledged by narrative and only thing you can call her out for.

 

That isn't good excuse, you have resonable amount of agency during other companions quests allowing for multiple solutions, for example you can verbally demolish Sera on her actions and even kick her out (while not perfect at least it is something).

 

How story does acknowledge it if no one in the story acknowledges it, nor is allowed to acknowledge it?Just because it is obvious doesn't make story acknowledges it, in fact it makes thing even worse because despite being obvious everyone in-universe fails to notice obvious.

 

Hrm, well, I mean I don't disagree with you entirely, I think we are just looking at it from a meta-level differently.

 

Your main point seems to be that because you can't force the player to explicitly acknowledge this or punish her, that means the story doesn't support it.  I disagree. My main point is that is she's not a Mary Sue because she's so flawed and it's so obvious and her entire function is to mess up and disappoint people, and all of her successes are really viewed through a heavily biased and dysfunctional lens (Varric, Bianca, and their relationship). There's no more narrative support for Bianca being awesome than there is her being extremely complicated and messed up, and in fact, I'd argue there's way more evidence for her being messed up. I don't think we were supposed to think she's amazing at all or they wouldn't have given her so much dialogue that is hostile or otherwise abrasive, have her make a huge mistake, or have her upset a party member that is the closest to universally beloved as a DA character can get.

 

However, from both of our POVs, this is a flawed quest. So really we are seeing the same problem, just attributing it to different causes, but I think the same conclusion applies. I agree there are flaws in the design, specifically the ability to react to their relationship and Bianca's personality/actions. I find this problem a lot in the game though, which is why I don't see it as a significant specific failure with her character, more a symptom of a systematic issue in the game.

 

e: oops, the quote didn't work? fixed for clarity!

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hrm, well, I mean I don't disagree with you entirely, I think we are just looking at it from a meta-level differently.

 

Your main point seems to be that because you can't force the player to explicitly acknowledge this, that means the story doesn't support it.  I disagree. My main point is that is she's not a Mary Sue because she's so flawed and it's so obvious and her entire function is to mess up and disappoint people, and all of her successes are really viewed through a heavily biased and dysfunctional lens (Varric, Bianca, and their relationship). There's no more narrative support for Bianca being awesome than there is her being extremely complicated and messed up, and in fact, I'd argue there's way more evidence for her being messed up. I don't think we were supposed to think she's amazing at all or they wouldn't have given her so much dialogue that is hostile or otherwise abrasive, have her make a huge mistake, or have her upset a party member that is the closest to universally beloved as a DA character can get.

 

However, from both of our POVs, this is a flawed quest. So really we are seeing the same problem, just attributing it to different causes, but I think the same conclusion applies. I agree there are flaws in the design, specifically the ability to react to their relationship and Bianca's personality. I find this problem a lot in the game though, which is why I don't see it as a significant specific failure with her character, more a symptom of a systematic issue in the game.

 

e: oops, the quote didn't work? fixed for clarity!

 

There are plenty mary sues that have flaws that auidience can eaisly see, problem is that narrative fails to notice them and no one in the story calls them out on their BS while still treats them as greatest things in the universe.

 

Once again narrative ignores her flaws, just because they are there doesn't mean story acknowledges it, there is simply nothing in-universe that would push point that Bianca is one that should be blamed.I mean player can see but story doesn't, therfore it is treated as there is nothing up to discussion about Bianca actions and behavior.Even whole red lyrium thing as i said is quickly disregarded as she did nothing wrong, what clearly shows that narrative favors her.

 

Simply whole story concerning Bianca is badly written and how devs attempted to sell and presented her in-universe show that character is badly written. 

[veeia]

There are plenty mary sues that have flaws that auidience can eaisly see, problem is that narrative fails to notice them and no one in the story calls them out on their BS while still treats them as greatest things in the universe.

 

Once again narrative ignores her flaws, just because they are there doesn't mean story acknowledges it, there is simply nothing in-universe that would push point that Bianca is one that should be blamed.I mean player can see but story doesn't, therfore it is treated as there is nothing up to discussion about Bianca actions and behavior.Even whole red lyrium thing as i said is quickly disregarded as she did nothing wrong, what clearly shows that narrative favors her.

 

Simply whole story concerning Bianca is badly written and how devs attempted to sell and presented her in-universe show that character is badly written. 

 

The story never says she doesn't do anything wrong. The story says that she didn't intentionally do anything wrong, which is correct. She had no way of knowing what would happen because of her actions. The story puts the player character in the position where they must accept this and not purse any kind of judgement, which mgiht be frustrating if you think her intent doesn't matter, but it doesn't mean the story is saying 'oh, that Bianca! she sure is fantastic'.  There's just no point in chasing down that road. If you tried to judge Bianca, I'm sure Varric would rightfully point out his (+ Hawke's) involvement in all this, so would you judge them too? I mean it might be nice to have you be able to say that, and Varric to argue with you, and I guess for you to kill all of them, but that's a limitation the game puts on you because they made the decision that chasing that wouldn't be a valuable thing to pursue.

 

The story also never says she doesn't have flaws. The story shows her flaws and shows the consequences of those.  She thinks she can fix things by herself because of arrogance and control issues and she ends up helping the villain which also leads to not only disappointing the man she loves, but putting him in more danger. She hates being seen as weak and doesn't deal with frustration well, so she snaps at the Inquisitor.  The first one you can react to with a varying degree of options, although you can't directly punish her, and the second one you can't. 

 

My reading of Bianca, based on what we see in game, is that she's a very intelligent person who is very good at smithing, but tries to apply that kind of workman mentality to her interpersonal relationships or larger world conflicts, and it doesn't work. If a machine breaks, you figure out what part is broken and you fix it. You can't do that with people. If there's something about a machine you don't understand, you can research it and share resources with people to learn more, but when you're studying something that has societal/political implications and uses, you have to consider that while you're studying it to ensure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands.

 

What Bianca was doing with the red lyrium was motivated by two reasons: she wanted to help Varric and she probably wanted to understand it because any greater understanding of it would help her with her business/her general drive to understand and categorize/fix things. But really if she wanted to help Varric, she should have worked on their relationship and found a way support him, not by trying to "fix" his brother from afar. And if she wanted to understand the red lyrium, she needed to see it beyond just what it was physically, but what it could do and represent and how people might use it.  So she failed on multiple levels there, and the reasons why are all supported in her characterization. That's why I think the story supports it.

[thats1evildude]

My read on Bianca is that she has an inflated ego from too many years of being the smartest person in the room. To be fair, she is a brilliant inventor, but it takes a special level of arrogance to claim you're ten times the smith as Branka, who forged a control rod centuries after the knowledge of how to do so was lost.

So anyways, she's asked by her old flame to figure out how red lyrium works. She ignores his warnings and travels to Bartrand's Folly. Examining red lyrium only yields so much information, but she can't leave the mystery alone. So she goes behind Varric's back to consult with a Grey Warden, who turns out to be Corypheus' vessel.

Red lyrium starts popping up all over and Bianca realized she unintentionally did a bad thing, but she doesn't want to admit she made a mistake. To ease her conscience, she tries to enlist her old beau and the Inquisition to help seal the thaig's entrance, hoping they won't put two and two together. (It's worth noting that this is risky to Varric personally, since the Merchant's Guild will kill him if they're together.)

After Varric and the Inquisitor prove that they're NOT drooling idiots, Varric gets a bit angry with her ignoring his warnings and hiding the truth. She doesn't respond well to guilt or criticism, so she first lashes out at Varric and then the Inquisitor.

 

Yeah, huge ego on this one.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The story never says she doesn't do anything wrong. The story says that she didn't intentionally do anything wrong, which is correct. She had no way of knowing what would happen because of her actions. The story puts the player character in the position where they must accept this and not purse any kind of judgement, which mgiht be frustrating if you think her intent doesn't matter, but it doesn't mean the story is saying 'oh, that Bianca! she sure is fantastic'.  There's just no point in chasing down that road. If you tried to judge Bianca, I'm sure Varric would rightfully point out his (+ Hawke's) involvement in all this, so would you judge them too? I mean it might be nice to have you be able to say that, and Varric to argue with you, and I guess for you to kill all of them, but that's a limitation the game puts on you because they made the decision that chasing that wouldn't be a valuable thing to pursue.

 

The story also never says she doesn't have flaws. The story shows her flaws and shows the consequences of those.  She thinks she can fix things by herself because of arrogance and control issues and she ends up helping the villain which also leads to not only disappointing the man she loves, but putting him in more danger. She hates being seen as weak and doesn't deal with frustration well, so she snaps at the Inquisitor.  The first one you can react to with a varying degree of options, although you can't directly punish her, and the second one you can't. 

 

My reading of Bianca, based on what we see in game, is that she's a very intelligent person who is very good at smithing, but tries to apply that kind of workman mentality to her interpersonal relationships or larger world conflicts, and it doesn't work. If a machine breaks, you figure out what part is broken and you fix it. You can't do that with people. If there's something about a machine you don't understand, you can research it and share resources with people to learn more, but when you're studying something that has societal/political implications and uses, you have to consider that while you're studying it to ensure it doesn't end up in the wrong hands.

 

What Bianca was doing with the red lyrium was motivated by two reasons: she wanted to help Varric and she probably wanted to understand it because any greater understanding of it would help her with her business/her general drive to understand and categorize/fix things. But really if she wanted to help Varric, she should have worked on their relationship and found a way support him, not by trying to "fix" his brother from afar. And if she wanted to understand the red lyrium, she needed to see it beyond just what it was physically, but what it could do and represent and how people might use it.  So she failed on multiple levels there, and the reasons why are all supported in her characterization. That's why I think the story supports it.

 

Except it does, we have been here before.Varric constantly praises his relationship and her actions to heavens despite player easily can see that it is flawed, you aren't allowed to comment nor anyone else does bring it's flawed nature.Plain and simple story responds strongly in favor of Bianca and is blind to her dubious actions and behavior. How there is no point going down that road, she did something she shouldn't with full knowledge that she shouldn't touch red Lyrium and caused great destruction, punishing her for her crimes is a resonable choice.

 

Once again, it also makes sure that it doesn't tell you that she has flaws foucusing on praising her to heavens. Once again that something is obvious doesnt' equatate to it being acknowledged by the story, you can't call her on her BS while narrative constantly tells us how great she is (despite her flaws that player can see). As i said only one time where you are allowed to call her out on her actions is immediately disregarded as if Bianca is innocent by default and shouldn't be punished for what she did. Then she procedes to threaten you and you aren't allowed to do anything or even call her out on it.

 

So once again conlusion is that while story shows you that Bianca is flawed by showing you her actions, it does bad job of acknowledging it and telling you that.Instead story focuses on praising her to heavens, what you can't even question nor anyone in-universe does.

[vbibbi]

I haven't played with DLC Sebastian before, I'm going to soon. However, I looked up his banter, and I can assuredly say that Hepler failed spectacularly at his -not preachiness. - He doesn't have to say "Come to church now or burn" to fall in that category. He is absolutely one of those arrogant, "Live by example and all the heathens will flock to the Chantry because I'm obviously so awesome at being patient and accepting" thumpers. He also straight up invites, but does not order, party members to come to the Chantry, specifically Fenris and Isabella. Isabella unapologetically laughs in his face. I'm conflicted on the Fenris thing, because he is such an angry elf I can't help but want him to find some peace even if I think that peace is wrapped in a lie.

 

I liked Sebastian and Fenris' friendship because it was obvious Fenris enjoyed Sebastian and was considering religion as a source of comfort. That's good, using religion as a positive force in someone's life if they're receptive is great. But with everyone else, all of Sebastian's talk of the Chantry was falling on deaf ears, really, and was fairly one sided. It wasn't that he was necessarily trying to convert people, but when the only thing a person can talk about is revenge or religion, it's easy to simplify their character as overly religious. Maybe if he had more facets to his personality people wouldn't zoom in on his religion.

 

It became holier than thou for me because whenever he spoke of religion, he didn't reference his troubled past. It felt dishonest, that he was speaking of religion from the standpoint of a blank slate rather than admit that he was a normal person who wasn't perfect. It took the other companions to bring this up.

 

It doesn't matter who talks about her, what matters that story did nothing to acknowledge her flaws while constantly praises her to heavens.While i understand that Varric is biased, Inquistor by any mean isn't and yet game outright refuse to allow you call her out on her BS.In the end this is bad writing because game doesn't call her out nor allows you on reasonable response that wouldn't be in her favor.

 

 

Actualy wrong, you can call out companions (or other people/groups) on their actions (assuming they did something) and there are multiple resolutions of their quests. For example aside from Sera you can call out Blackwall during his quest, you can demolish Qunari during Iron Bull Quest , same with seekers in Cassandra quest and goes on.

 

Yes I wish the Inquisitor could have had some reaction or a more thorough discussion with Varric about Bianca after the quest, but I see it more as a failure in the quest design. Just because no one explicitly states in game that Bianca doesn't have glaring flaws doesn't mean that the game isn't allowing the player to come to that conclusion by what we see.

 

It's better than Fiona, at least, where she says she would have done everything exactly the same if she had to do it all over again, and the Inquisitor has no option to call her out on this. Or when Fiona stands around Skyhold doing nothing and then criticizes the Inquisitor's actions and we aren't allowed to respond.

[Sifr]

I'm sorry, are we talking about the same Bianca? The Bianca who left Varric at the altar to marry someone who she didn't love, and then continued an emotional affair with a man who lived half a world away because she didn't have the guts to tell him they should both move on? Yeah, Bianca is horrible, and I'm just not going to see it any other way unless they choose to clarify a few things for us.

 

Wait, when did Bianca leave Varric  at the altar?

 

The context of the conversation was that she ditched the arranged wedding between her and her husband  in order to run off with Varric, rather than leaving Varric hanging to marry the man who became her husband. She was eventually forced to go through with the wedding by her family, but not after missing at least one ceremony, perhaps more?

 

It doesn't sound like Bianca jumped into the arranged marriage at all willingly, but rather had to be dragged kicking and screaming.

[Lady Artifice]

Wait, when did Bianca leave Varric  at the altar?

 

The context of the conversation was that she ditched the arranged wedding between her and her husband  in order to run off with Varric, rather than leaving Varric hanging to marry the man who became her husband. She was eventually forced to go through with the wedding by her family, but not after missing at least one ceremony, perhaps more?

 

It doesn't sound like Bianca jumped into the arranged marriage at all willingly, but rather had to be dragged kicking and screaming.

 

I got the same impression, and my suspicion--just based on the context and the comments about Varric being in danger if they're caught together--was that it was Varric's life on the line if she failed to do what was expected of her.

 

I might find Bianca to be wholly unlikable person, but I don't doubt that she cares for Varric.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes I wish the Inquisitor could have had some reaction or a more thorough discussion with Varric about Bianca after the quest, but I see it more as a failure in the quest design. Just because no one explicitly states in game that Bianca doesn't have glaring flaws doesn't mean that the game isn't allowing the player to come to that conclusion by what we see.

 

It's better than Fiona, at least, where she says she would have done everything exactly the same if she had to do it all over again, and the Inquisitor has no option to call her out on this. Or when Fiona stands around Skyhold doing nothing and then criticizes the Inquisitor's actions and we aren't allowed to respond.

 

That is not only bad quest design but also bad character design, as narrative fails to point obvious. If character is total d*** (and audience can see that) , yet in-universe character is treated as nice guy this is just a poor writing.That is problem with Bianca, we are constantly told otherwise and we aren't allowed to point it out despite we as players can come to own conclusion.

 

To be honest Fiona can at least be punished (as well mage rebelion) by conscripting mages, or you just never have to deal with her as you can side with Templars if you tought mages were in wrong.Aside from above Fiona becomes irrelevant NPC afer alliance/conscription, unlike Bianca that is mandatory part of companion quest. 

[Qun00]

Interesting, thank you for sharing that link. It's funny, some of Gaider's posts can come across as a bit defensive and stubborn. I totally respect him for even engaging with the fan community, as I don't think I'd have the stones to do so with a creative work, and I respect his writing, but sometimes he doesn't seem open to fan reactions that go against Bioware's intended reactions. He can come across as petulant that something in a game wasn't as well received as he thinks it should have been, or that people had differing interpretations of his original vision.

Some of the responses to his post I think are spot on and emphasize that if characters, stories and cultures are inspired by the real world, Bio can't then expect audiences not to compare the game to those real world analogues. And sometimes if a character isn't as successful as you'd planned, just own up to it and accept the feedback, even if you don't agree with it. Don't just get in a huff because the special snowflake wasn't to everyone's tastes.

Spoiler

So… no. I don’t see him as a religious fanatic, shoving his beliefs down everyone’s throat and trying to convert them or holding anyone else’s beliefs against them. Nor do I hate him. He has a pretty agreeable disposition and is unfailingly eager and positive most of the time (sometimes resulting in unintentional cluelessness). But I don’t think it’s fair to definitively insist that he isn’t preachy, because what someone considers ‘preachy’ largely depends on a lot of subjective factors, and if you’re shocked that people get passionate and touchy about religious or moral concepts no matter how hard you try to water them down or soften their potential for offense, I have to wonder what rock you’ve been living under.

Spoiler

I don’t hate Sebastian and I haven’t really thought about his level of preachiness compared to other characters. What stands out about him, however, is that he does have a lot of dialogue basically telling other characters to accept what they went through and forget their abuses, with a somewhat patronizing implication that they’re exaggerating their problems in there as well. And, hey, in light of what I went through in real life at the hands of people involved with an institution the Chantry is an expy of, and in light of those people telling me the exact same thing many times, I’m not going to take kindly to a character in a game spouting the same harmful nonsense at me.

The explanation is simple: David Gaider IS Morrigan.

[vbibbi]

The explanation is simple: David Gaider IS Morrigan.

He's from an alternate universe where Dorian accepted his family's wishes, married a nice Mage girl who turned out to be Morrigan, and they had a child. That child is Gaider.

[SmilesJA]

 

I might find Bianca to be wholly unlikable person, but I don't doubt that she cares for Varric.

 

The moment that Bianca threatened the Inquisitor I felt like saying: 

 

Spoiler

 

What  did you just say about me?  I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla [sic] warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the  out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my words. You think you can get away with saying that to me over the Internet? Think again. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable  off the face of the continent, you little. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price. I will fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're dead, kiddo.

 

[Sifr]

My read on Bianca is that she has an inflated ego from too many years of being the smartest person in the room. To be fair, she is a brilliant inventor, but it takes a special level of arrogance to claim you're ten times the smith as Branka, who forged a control rod centuries after the knowledge of how to do so was lost.

So anyways, she's asked by her old flame to figure out how red lyrium works. She ignores his warnings and travels to Bartrand's Folly. Examining red lyrium only yields so much information, but she can't leave the mystery alone. So she goes behind Varric's back to consult with a Grey Warden, who turns out to be Corypheus' vessel.

Red lyrium starts popping up all over and Bianca realized she unintentionally did a bad thing, but she doesn't want to admit she made a mistake. To ease her conscience, she tries to enlist her old beau and the Inquisition to help seal the thaig's entrance, hoping they won't put two and two together. (It's worth noting that this is risky to Varric personally, since the Merchant's Guild will kill him if they're together.)

After Varric and the Inquisitor prove that they're NOT drooling idiots, Varric gets a bit angry with her ignoring his warnings and hiding the truth. She doesn't respond well to guilt or criticism, so she first lashes out at Varric and then the Inquisitor.

 

Yeah, huge ego on this one.

 

To be just as fair, Orzammar is stuck in the past and so as brilliant as Branka was as a Smith, there's an entire wealth of information, technology and innovation on the surface that's being actively ignored by them. If Orzammar found out the means to make the repeating crossbow, would they use it knowing that it was created by surfacers? I doubt their stubborn pride would let them, even if it gave them an edge against the Darkspawn.

 

Sure, Bianca's boasting here and definitely does have a bit of pride in her work, but how is that any different from Dagna doing the same? Part of what made Dagna such as a great Arcanist was because she was able to learn new things on the surface that simply weren't part of Orzammar's dogged traditional thinking, so why shouldn't surfacer Smiths like Bianca and Gerav not be considered better than those in Orzammar who are stuck doing things old school?

 

She did screw up admittedly by going to Bartrand's Folly, but it was the only place to find Red Lyrium to study (at least prior to Inquisition), as either the shard was destroyed and Meredith's remains are being quarantined in the Gallows. If the shard was kept then Bianca did have a sample to study and designed the container to store it in, so it does come across as an even dumber move to venture into the thaig. Of course, studying the shard (if it exists) doesn't raise any clues as to what caused it and where it comes from, answers that can only be found perhaps at the source, which meant having to venture into the Thaig itself.

 

Contacting the Wardens for leads on Red Lyrium isn't that bad of an idea when you think about it, because if you're looking for information on weird stuff found in the Deep Roads, the Wardens are pretty much the experts in that field. In between games, Hawke does the same thing for those same reasons, leading them to team up with the Warden-ally by the time Inquisition rolls around.

 

I think she probably does have a prideful and stubborn streak (although she's a dwarf, it's kind of their thing), so she tends to rush into things thinking she's accounted for all the variables that could go wrong. Which of course leads her to overlook something as simple as human (or dwarven) error on her own part. I dunno, whether that's arrogance or a sign of her having flaws, probably depends on who's looking at it. To me, I think that kind of grounds her a bit and shows us that she's not above making mistakes and is just as fallible as anyone else.

 

It might be that part of the reason she was so defensive during that argument was because she didn't expect Varric to lay into her right there and then. Their conversation on the way through Valammar tells us that they'd not written to each other since before the Kirkwall explosion, so she doesn't know that he's assumed the mantle of all this blame on himself, as we see in numerous conversations during the game.

 

Varric does say that they'll probably reconnect at some point down the road eventually, but I personally don't expect it to be for a while, as it probably will take him a while to forgive her for this screw up.

[kimgoold]

So Bianca caused all the trouble with the game. The conclave, Corypheus, red templars. She did all that and then got to trash talk the inquisitor and then drop the mic and walk away? 

 

This is a character my Inky could happily b-slap, but won't because it would upset Varric.

 

As to those two reconnecting (Bianca/Varric) I just don't see it happening; at the end of Trespasser I was pleasantly surprised by the possibility of a Romance (capital R) with Varric and Cassandra, next time you play look at Varric's expression when he hands Cass the book and her look back at him and tell me you don't think its possibly on the cards in future DA.

[thats1evildude]

To be just as fair, Orzammar is stuck in the past and so as brilliant as Branka was as a Smith, there's an entire wealth of information, technology and innovation on the surface that's being actively ignored by them. If Orzammar found out the means to make the repeating crossbow, would they use it knowing that it was created by surfacers? I doubt their stubborn pride would let them, even if it gave them an edge against the Darkspawn.

Oh, the crossbow is only one of the inventions from the "genius of Bianca Davri". (That's a direct quote from WoT Vol. 2.) She also invented a threshing machine, seeder and hydro-powered spinning machine. The first one wasn't invented in RL until the mid-1700s.

She's the greatest smith of the Dragon Age, a more skilled archer than Varric and the only woman he will ever love. Is there anything she can't do?

[Reznore57]

I sort of don't hate Bianca?

I mean I don't remember being super annoyed at her even when she claims she will gut the Inquisitor if something happens to Varric .

I thought it was more about showing she has affections for him when their status as a couple was a bit up in the air.

 

My main grievance would be Varric not moving on , he's almost 40 I think  and has no family left in some cases , Bianca is not leaving her husband .It's implied it would be a bloodbath between clans if she elopes with Varric so unless a small miracle happens it's not changing anytime soon.And it seems Bianca and her husband didn't agree on an open marriage so her and Varric can only see each other a couple of time a year at best , and there's some assasins involved.

So yeah I think those two should break up.

[Fredward]

On the topic of Varric not moving on, I think part of him kinda likes the idea of a unattainable yet yearned for romance. The same way he says a lot of his stories end in tragedy and "how that probably says something unfortunate about me personally." And his canned response of 'that's the one story I'll never tell' about the crossbow's name. He's cloaked his romance with Bianca in a layer of mystique and angst it may or may not warrant. It's weird but I don't really judge people for their quirks if they don't harm anyone else.

 

This isn't to say I don't think they love/are very fond of each other, just that Varric plays it up a bit.

[sniper_arrow]

She's the greatest smith of the Dragon Age, a more skilled archer than Varric and the only woman he will ever love. Is there anything she can't do?

 

Moving on from a toxic relationship.

 

I just wanted to add also: being a better written character.

Modifié par sniper_arrow, 21 juin 2016 - 11:34 .

[In Exile]

I agree with the relationship being toxic, but not that Varric pushed her away. From everything we've seen and the things I've read, Varric was crazy about her and wanted to be with her. He asked her to marry him and run away with him, and she's the one who literally left him standing at the altar. He didn't push her away- she left him hanging, and then Varric left for his own safety, as her family then sent assassins after him.

We this in DAI? I don't recall the leaving him at the altar story.

[Yermogi]

As to those two reconnecting (Bianca/Varric) I just don't see it happening; at the end of Trespasser I was pleasantly surprised by the possibility of a Romance (capital R) with Varric and Cassandra, next time you play look at Varric's expression when he hands Cass the book and her look back at him and tell me you don't think its possibly on the cards in future DA.

I don't think we would have Varric and Cassandra getting together (unfortunately, because I also think that they're cute) because Cassandra could be the next Divine by the end of the game which would make it pretty impossible for him to get close enough to her to have that sort of relationship.

 

And for all the questions where I got the source for Bianca leaving Varric at the altar- after Varric's personal quest, you can talk to him about why he and Bianca aren't together, and about her husband. And somewhere in there he says in a very disgruntled tone something along the lines of "That wedding she actually showed up to," which certainly sounds to me like she and Varric were planning to elope and then she changed her mind at the last minute.

[Merela]

This is a character my Inky could happily b-slap, but won't because it would upset Varric.

 

As to those two reconnecting (Bianca/Varric) I just don't see it happening; at the end of Trespasser I was pleasantly surprised by the possibility of a Romance (capital R) with Varric and Cassandra, next time you play look at Varric's expression when he hands Cass the book and her look back at him and tell me you don't think its possibly on the cards in future DA.

 

Considering the same scene withe the same expression also happens if your Inquisitor romanced Cass or when she's Divine (and even when she's Divine who romanced the Inquisitor), don't hold your breath for that romance.

 

Anyway, back to Bianca...well, I like her. She has both massive flaws and great qualities, and her inventions could change Thedas for the best. Maybe. If the Qun and Solas don't destroy it first. And her "threat" toward the Inquisitor didn't really bothered me that much, but it's surely because I'm playing a Dwarf Inquisitor - Cadash being a former member of the Carta, he likely got told he would be fed his eyeballs (among other things) countless times.  #justacartathing

 

And for all the questions where I got the source for Bianca leaving Varric at the altar- after Varric's personal quest, you can talk to him about why he and Bianca aren't together, and about her husband. And somewhere in there he says in a very disgruntled tone something along the lines of "That wedding she actually showed up to," which certainly sounds to me like she and Varric were planning to elope and then she changed her mind at the last minute.

 

Right from The World of Thedas, volume 2, p.258: "[...] Bianca devotes most of her time to developing new designs and leaves the business of taking orders and delivering completed machines to her husband, Bogdan Vasca. House Vasca was long one of the most powerful members of the Dwarven Merchants Guild and has been the primary exporter of Orzammar-forged dwarven steel on the surface for centuries; The alliance between House Vasca and House Davri has granted considerable power to both and made them a faction within the Merchants Guild that none of the others families dare to oppose.

 

It's rumored that Bianca herself was less than pleased with the prospective alliance and actually left Bogdan standing at the altar while she tried to elope with another man. Both House Davri and House Vasca vehemently deny the rumors."

 

So Bianca didn't leave Varric at the altar, it was Bogdan she left waiting for nothing  while she and Varric attempted to ellope together but they failed (confirmed by Varric's dream in the "Until we sleep" comic: "we...tried that. We didn't make it."), and if Vava is disgruntled and bitter about the whole thing ("I heard the wedding was lovely. The one she showed up at anyway.") it's because in the end Bogdan and his fabulous collection of anvils still got the girl while he was left with nothing but a broken heart and his crossbow.