154 réponses à ce sujet

[Yermogi]

So Bianca didn't leave Varric at the altar, it was Bogdan she left waiting for nothing  while she and Varric attempted to ellope together but they failed (confirmed by Varric's dream in the "Until we sleep" comic: "we...tried that. We didn't make it."), and if Vava is disgruntled and bitter about the whole thing ("I heard the wedding was lovely. The one she showed up at anyway.") it's because in the end Bogdan and his fabulous collection of anvils still got the girl while he was left with nothing but a broken heart and his crossbow.

Even if she didn't leave Varric at the altar, she still broke his heart and didn't cut him loose when she should have. My opinion of her does not change with this information.

 

To clarify, I don't dislike her because "OMG I wanted to romance Varric!" (although I did want to romance him). I dislike her because of the way she keeps him on an emotional chain and lets him fester in a toxic relationship that only he seems to be suffering from. The fact that she didn't tell him to move on when he went to live hundreds of miles away from her tells me that she's an egomaniac and she just wanted to remember that someone else out there thought she was the greatest thing ever. I would dislike anyone as manipulative as that.

 

And regardless of whether or not the writers meant her to be disliked, she still is by many. If they meant to make her that way, bravo. They succeeded. If they didn't mean to, then they should take a second look at where they went wrong and fix things so we can see their view, or adjust their views of her accordingly. 

[Illegitimus]

So Bianca caused all the trouble with the game. The conclave, Corypheus, red templars. She did all that and then got to trash talk the inquisitor and then drop the mic and walk away? 

 

The answer is "no".   Red lyrium had nothing with Corypheus getting free, getting his hands on the key and using it at the Conclave.  

[thats1evildude]

'S true. Janeka and the Carta can be blamed for Corypheus. (Hawke set him free, but they only went to the mountains in response to an attack by the Carta.)

 

And the Orb was "given" to Corypheus by Solas.

[nightscrawl]

I don't think we would have Varric and Cassandra getting together (unfortunately, because I also think that they're cute) because Cassandra could be the next Divine by the end of the game which would make it pretty impossible for him to get close enough to her to have that sort of relationship.
 
And for all the questions where I got the source for Bianca leaving Varric at the altar- after Varric's personal quest, you can talk to him about why he and Bianca aren't together, and about her husband. And somewhere in there he says in a very disgruntled tone something along the lines of "That wedding she actually showed up to," which certainly sounds to me like she and Varric were planning to elope and then she changed her mind at the last minute.

Right from The World of Thedas, volume 2, p.258: "[...] Bianca devotes most of her time to developing new designs and leaves the business of taking orders and delivering completed machines to her husband, Bogdan Vasca. House Vasca was long one of the most powerful members of the Dwarven Merchants Guild and has been the primary exporter of Orzammar-forged dwarven steel on the surface for centuries; The alliance between House Vasca and House Davri has granted considerable power to both and made them a faction within the Merchants Guild that none of the others families dare to oppose.
 
It's rumored that Bianca herself was less than pleased with the prospective alliance and actually left Bogdan standing at the altar while she tried to elope with another man. Both House Davri and House Vasca vehemently deny the rumors."
 
So Bianca didn't leave Varric at the altar, it was Bogdan she left waiting for nothing  while she and Varric attempted to ellope together but they failed (confirmed by Varric's dream in the "Until we sleep" comic: "we...tried that. We didn't make it."), and if Vava is disgruntled and bitter about the whole thing ("I heard the wedding was lovely. The one she showed up at anyway.") it's because in the end Bogdan and his fabulous collection of anvils still got the girl while he was left with nothing but a broken heart and his crossbow.

Even though Merela provided proof and everything, I just want to say that this is one instance where people can hear a certain line, delivered a certain way, and take away completely different things. Yermogi heard that Bianca left Varric at the altar, whereas I heard that Bianca's family tried to get her to marry Bogden numerous times and finally did succeed, so the one she "actually showed up" for was the second or third attempt to marry Bogden.
 
I understand this doesn't change the overall opinion, but I did think the difference in perception was interesting.

[vbibbi]

On the topic of Varric not moving on, I think part of him kinda likes the idea of a unattainable yet yearned for romance. The same way he says a lot of his stories end in tragedy and "how that probably says something unfortunate about me personally." And his canned response of 'that's the one story I'll never tell' about the crossbow's name. He's cloaked his romance with Bianca in a layer of mystique and angst it may or may not warrant. It's weird but I don't really judge people for their quirks if they don't harm anyone else.

 

This isn't to say I don't think they love/are very fond of each other, just that Varric plays it up a bit.

 

I think Varric can use the star crossed love thing as an excuse not to move on and live in the real world. He's shown in DA2 not to take his Merchants' Guild responsibilities seriously until he has to take over the family business. He's running away from what he considers his responsibility to Kirkwall by joining the Inquisition. He was no longer a guest under lock and key after the Conclave, so he could have left and helped Kirkwall.

 

It's not until Trespasser that we see him maturing and taking ownership of his life. He's helped Kirkwall, he's accepted the Viscount title, he's growing up. Perhaps this quest was the final straw in keeping up his stories in his personal life. He could no longer let himself believe Bianca would ever be more than a dream for him and he needed to do more with his life.

 

 

Even though Merela provided proof and everything, I just want to say that this is one instance where people can hear a certain line, delivered a certain way, and take away completely different things. Yermogi heard that Bianca left Varric at the altar, whereas I heard that Bianca's family tried to get her to marry Bogden numerous times and finally did succeed, so the one she "actually showed up" for was the second or third attempt to marry Bogden.
 
I understand this doesn't change the overall opinion, but I did think the difference in perception was interesting.

 

 

It's deliberately unclear in game, which is fine with me. The only sources of information are Varric and Bianca, and of course they're both biased. And Varric is more than happy to leave the mystery in place, as I don't think he even would have asked the Inquisitor to meet Bianca if it hadn't been urgent.

[tanzensehen]

I agree about what was said about Bianca and Varric so far - it's a tragic relationship that despite everything couldn't work and he is slowly moving on.

 

That said, the only thing I disliked about Bianca was how much exposition they tried to give in a ten-minute quest. A better archer than Varric, a better smith than Branka, for some reason she even managed to sneak into Skyhold without assassins going after her! She should be a Paragon but she is not because of fantasy racism!
And she is funny (or she should be)! And amazing!
That's the reason why I dislike her. I think that they tried too hard. The 'threat' and her motivation was fine.

Mostly I wish they had shown something that would make us understood why they loved each other, it only did an amazing job at showing why the relationship was doomed. At least properly build-up her character, maybe by letting us find a book, or a rumor, or even by Varric sneaking a note to Dagna who said "I know a good dwarven smith if you need one" and having Dagna sometimes wonder who that smith is.  I would have been fine even with Cole say something like "that day she had a nice flower in her hair"!

[BansheeOwnage]

"A thing is rolling toward me! MUST CATCH!"

The Inquisitor must be part Fereldan!

 

 

I will say that I liked the direction Bio took with her. I found her unlikeable and am not a fan of her as a person. BUT I find this realistic, if depressing, as there are people who date or idolize people who really aren't that great. "We accept the love we think we deserve" and all that. Her appearance actually added to Varric's character for me. Prior to that, he didn't have many apparent flaws and was an all around good guy. Now, he's still a good guy but with horrible taste in women and slightly pathetic to be longing for someone whom he knows he can never truly be with.

I... don't think that's pathetic. That kind of thing is horrible to go through.

 

I agree about what was said about Bianca and Varric so far - it's a tragic relationship that despite everything couldn't work and he is slowly moving on.

 

That said, the only thing I disliked about Bianca was how much exposition they tried to give in a ten-minute quest. A better archer than Varric, a better smith than Branka, for some reason she even managed to sneak into Skyhold without assassins going after her!

Skyhold is the least secure mountain-top fortress in Thedas, apparently; it gets infiltrated about 5 times even though Leliana is supposedly a great spymaster and there is really only one entrance

[phoray]

The Inquisitor must be part Fereldan!
 

I... don't think that's pathetic. That kind of thing is horrible to go through.
 

Skyhold is the least secure mountain-top fortress in Thedas, apparently; it gets infiltrated about 5 times even though Leliana is supposedly a great spymaster and there is really only one entrance

Haha part mabari. I miss having a dog in Inquisition.
True story! The Qun and the Orlais assassin guild.

But I thought I saw Bianca throughout the story. Chatting it up with Josephine a couple times, even in haven. Definitely a hooded female dwarf that had the same build and a familiar voice. Could be wrong.

[Yermogi]

But I thought I saw Bianca throughout the story. Chatting it up with Josephine a couple times, even in haven. Definitely a hooded female dwarf that had the same build and a familiar voice. Could be wrong.

No, I definitely saw a dwarf with the same build as Bianca. They could have at least made her look unique... We didn't even get to see her hair!

[nightscrawl]

^ That is an Inquisition dwarf whom I believe is wearing Inquisition armor, acting as a messenger. She shows up periodically and talks to Josephine about various follower things.
 
However, I believe she does share a model with a female dwarf that is sometimes found in the great hall.
 
 
Her VA is the same as Dagna's, btw.

[In Exile]

Even if she didn't leave Varric at the altar, she still broke his heart and didn't cut him loose when she should have. My opinion of her does not change with this information.

 

To clarify, I don't dislike her because "OMG I wanted to romance Varric!" (although I did want to romance him). I dislike her because of the way she keeps him on an emotional chain and lets him fester in a toxic relationship that only he seems to be suffering from. The fact that she didn't tell him to move on when he went to live hundreds of miles away from her tells me that she's an egomaniac and she just wanted to remember that someone else out there thought she was the greatest thing ever. I would dislike anyone as manipulative as that.

 

And regardless of whether or not the writers meant her to be disliked, she still is by many. If they meant to make her that way, bravo. They succeeded. If they didn't mean to, then they should take a second look at where they went wrong and fix things so we can see their view, or adjust their views of her accordingly. 

I'm not entirely sure it's all Bianca here. To put this all on her denies Varic any agency and absolves him of responsibility for his own shitty life decision. Varic is an adult. He's not "kept" on an emotional chain, IMO, as much as he's chosen to be stuck in this disastrous and toxic relationship, pining away for Bianca. She could, I guess, try the old "Lassie" trick, but I'm not sure why it's incumbent on her to tell Varric to **** off forever and not on Varric to take responsibility over his own life?

[Yermogi]

I'm not entirely sure it's all Bianca here. To put this all on her denies Varic any agency and absolves him of responsibility for his own shitty life decision. Varic is an adult. He's not "kept" on an emotional chain, IMO, as much as he's chosen to be stuck in this disastrous and toxic relationship, pining away for Bianca. She could, I guess, try the old "Lassie" trick, but I'm not sure why it's incumbent on her to tell Varric to **** off forever and not on Varric to take responsibility over his own life?

Oh, I do think Varric is a moron with terrible taste in women who clearly can't tell when to cut his losses. But he's also the kind of person who clings to relationships because at one point it was so good, and keeps hoping in the back of his mind that one day he'll get that back. I've seen that sort of person in real life. The only way to snap him out of it would be for her to tell him that it's over between the two of them (which Bianca should have done if she really loved him and wanted him to be happy), or for him to basically get smashed in the face with the emotional equivalent of an anvil. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

 

My problem with Bianca is that instead of cutting him loose, she lets him keep pining after her, which says to me that she is either also in a state of denial when it comes to the sheer pointlessness of their relationship, or that she just likes having the extra attention that she gets from him. It annoys me when people say "She's in love with him" when her actions do not match that at all. 

[In Exile]

I think Bianca very much keeps pining after him, and my take is that she does want him to try again and elope with her. I think Varric is more wishy washy than she is here - because I think she's more willing to selfishly say screw it than he is willing to say it. As I recall in some of his dialogue he basically all but says if he eloped with Bianca it would start a clan war. Varric has too much empathy for that - he'd blame himself for the deaths. Don't really think Bianca would be all that bothered.

As I read their relationship, Varric is also pushing her away from him. Or at least keeping her somewhat distant while not letting her go. That's what I think the red lyrium is about - from her perspective, a chance to be useful to Varric.

Remember, her situation is awful - she's trapped and isolated in a loveless sham marriage.

[nightscrawl]

^ I think they're both at fault, really. They really need to have a serious and considered conversation about their relationship, such as it is, and decide what they want it to be. If they decide, together, that certain things are more important (not starting a clan war, continuing to make useful inventions that benefit Thedas, running Kirkwall), and also decide that their limited contact is enough, then that is their choice as a couple.

 

They're basically in limbo at the moment, with each pining away for the other, hoping that some miracle might happen and things might change. But you can't live like that. Either rip off the band-aid and finally part, or be completely honest about what the relationship is, and where it's not going.

[thats1evildude]

But I thought I saw Bianca throughout the story. Chatting it up with Josephine a couple times, even in haven. Definitely a hooded female dwarf that had the same build and a familiar voice. Could be wrong.

 

All the female dwarves had that same build and wear that exact same outfit.

[BansheeOwnage]

All the female dwarves had that same build and wear that exact same outfit.

I know they all have the same build, but do they really all have the same outfit? Like, in the whole game? The ones in the Winter Palace certainly don't wear Inquisition attire. There is also Luka, the Alchemist who sits near the barn in Skyhold.

[thats1evildude]

Luka starts out in the default hooded outfit if you play multiplayer.

But I do admit, I forgot about Harding. Also, dwarven Grey Wardens wear Warden armour.

[Spirit Vanguard]

The dwarf that speaks with Josephine and Cullen doesn't wear a hood. I believe the ones at Winter Palace do wear hoods, like Bianca. There are also various other dwarves who dress differently, so, no. They don't all wear exactly the same thing. At least not anymore than any other NPC in the game.

[phoray]

I know they all have the same build, but do they really all have the same outfit? Like, in the whole game? The ones in the Winter Palace certainly don't wear Inquisition attire. There is also Luka, the Alchemist who sits near the barn in Skyhold.

There is an un hooded chubby dwarf that I see In the Skyhold Office. Then there are hooded dwarves I see in the Hallway of the Haven Chantry. So, I've definitely seen two dwarf outfits.

[Krypplingz]

All the female dwarves had that same build and wear that exact same outfit.

Same build maybe, but there are more than one outfits. Two variants of the Inquisition outfit, the grey warden outfits and the legion outfit. Then there are leather clad lady dwarves in Val Royeaux. But a lot of dwarves wear the "Bianca" armor and the Carta has a black and red variant of it. 

And then there are Luka, Harding and Dagna, all with their own special armors. 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Same build maybe, but there are more than one outfits. Two variants of the Inquisition outfit, the grey warden outfits and the legion outfit. Then there are leather clad lady dwarves in Val Royeaux. But a lot of dwarves wear the "Bianca" armor and the Carta has a black and red variant of it. 

And then there are Luka, Harding and Dagna, all with their own special armors. 

 

Is Dagna's outfit special, or is it just one of the Inquisition armours that the guards wear? You can buy them in Haven, but they kind of suck, so I'm not fully familiar with how they look on each class.

[Krypplingz]

Is Dagna's outfit special, or is it just one of the Inquisition armours that the guards wear? You can buy them in Haven, but they kind of suck, so I'm not fully familiar with how they look on each class.

Yes it is special, I've been stalking the dwarves of Skyhold for too long to be wrong!

see for yourself:

Spoiler

Well you can't really see anything, because of my lackluster photoskills, but Dagna has an unique armor and Harding kind of does, only sharing it with a female, rogue, dwarf Inquisitor. 

 

Dagna uses a smiliar base as the leather armor the Inquisition guards wear, but she has her own breastplate, different shoulder pads and while you can't see it, her sash is different. The other armor has it hanging straight from her hip and a belt holding it in place. And shes missing the hood thingies. 

Harding actually uses the Inquisition Scout Armor you can buy in Haven, but different colors. Didn't realize that at first.

But now that I think of it. I think the leather armor the guards are wearing is the Inquisition Battlemage Armor. Which raises some question, but also hints that the general populace might just find mage outfits cool, despite just being bakers. 

 

And I friggin love the Inquisition themed armors appearance wise. But the stats are kind of meh.

[vbibbi]

I agree about what was said about Bianca and Varric so far - it's a tragic relationship that despite everything couldn't work and he is slowly moving on.

 

That said, the only thing I disliked about Bianca was how much exposition they tried to give in a ten-minute quest. A better archer than Varric, a better smith than Branka, for some reason she even managed to sneak into Skyhold without assassins going after her! She should be a Paragon but she is not because of fantasy racism!
And she is funny (or she should be)! And amazing!
That's the reason why I dislike her. I think that they tried too hard. The 'threat' and her motivation was fine.

Mostly I wish they had shown something that would make us understood why they loved each other, it only did an amazing job at showing why the relationship was doomed. At least properly build-up her character, maybe by letting us find a book, or a rumor, or even by Varric sneaking a note to Dagna who said "I know a good dwarven smith if you need one" and having Dagna sometimes wonder who that smith is.  I would have been fine even with Cole say something like "that day she had a nice flower in her hair"!

 

Yeah the game overloaded us with Bianca's greatness. Again, though, Varric is the lens through which she's presented, so I don't necessarily believe she is actually supposed to be that awesome.

 

I think if the Inquisitor had had even one chance to voice skepticism over her character or have any response to the situation, my opinion of Bianca wouldn't be seeped in frustration. I would have loved for a choice of reaction when we're walking through Valammar and Varric is going on about her. Choose between "sounds like you have a lot to be proud of, Bianca," a sarcastic "uh huh" following the list of her exploits, and "we've all done great things in our lives, and things we're not proud of"

 

The Inquisitor must be part Fereldan!

 

I... don't think that's pathetic. That kind of thing is horrible to go through.

 

Skyhold is the least secure mountain-top fortress in Thedas, apparently; it gets infiltrated about 5 times even though Leliana is supposedly a great spymaster and there is really only one entrance

 

The rough position of being in love with someone and not being able to make it work isn't pathetic. I'm not saying that, the heart isn't going to suddenly change if we know it's never going to happen.

 

But Varric is a smart dude and is genre savvy. He is intentionally deluding himself with his situation. I think he likes the idea of star crossed lovers as much as he genuinely loves Bianca. He is making the choice not to choose. There is a part of him which enjoys always referencing this forbidden love when people ask him how he named his crossbow. It makes for a good story. Moving on with his life or running away with Bianca and living a life of obscurity doesn't.

[Qun00]

He's from an alternate universe where Dorian accepted his family's wishes, married a nice Mage girl who turned out to be Morrigan, and they had a child. That child is Gaider.

Huh... really? That actually happened?

[nightscrawl]

Is Dagna's outfit special, or is it just one of the Inquisition armours that the guards wear? You can buy them in Haven, but they kind of suck, so I'm not fully familiar with how they look on each class.

 

As someone who has tried, and failed, to fix the coloring on Dagna's armor to be more Inquisition-appropriate (for this mod), I can say that yes, she does appear to have an unique model.

 

 

Huh... really? That actually happened?

 

I can't tell if you're really confused or not, but vbibbi was making a joke. David Gaider's personality, or at least that he shows online, does rather resemble Dorian + Morrigan.