To risk her life by trying to save herself from the gunshot? What?
It's a Mexican stand-off. If you make a move, so does the other person. If the Asari Councilor, after being thrown to the ground, decides to try to throw up a barrier while a gun is pointed at her, it becomes a question of how fast the barrier gets going before the gun fires.
It's a Mexican stand-off. If you make a move, so does the other person. If the Asari Councilor, after being thrown to the ground, decides to try to throw up a barrier while a gun is pointed at her, it becomes a question of how fast the barrier gets going before the gun fires.
And if she doesn't do anything then she's dead (if Shepard/VS weren't there to shoot Udina). I'd say it's better to die trying than die doing nothing.
Argument after the fact. What I mean is if you are willing to believe that an asari scientist is an adept in biotics then a politician is not different.
And why does Joker casually fly into the Collector beam at about twelve miles per hour?
YES! What happened to the "anything but average, not good, not even great but the best damn helmsman in the Alliance Fleet"?
And if she doesn't do anything then she's dead (if Shepard/VS weren't there to shoot Udina). I'd say it's better to die trying than die doing nothing.
The bolded needs to be proven. Mexican stand-offs are tense for a clear reason, but death isn't guaranteed. Here's a fun example from Way of the Gun:
Could Udina shoot the Asari Councilor? Definitely. And if he does, he dies immediately since Shepard, the VS, and his squad all have guns trained on him. The point is that if you have a gun trained on your person, not everyone wants to play a reflex game with their life, especially if there might be a non-deadly way of ending the scenario, like getting Udina to stand down. Your scenario only works if we have omniscience that Udina is going to shoot.
You got me there.
See above - I've gone back in to check. No, it's not less than a minute... but can be significantly shorter if you bring Liara.
Your scenario only works if we have omniscience that Udina is going to shoot.
Why else would he point his gun on the Councilor? Just to show it? We didn't have a chance to question him about that. The moment he draws his pistol, he is shot. The same applies to Asari Councilor. The moment Udina reaches for his pocket, send his ass flying off the balcony.
If this were real life, absolutely.Do not think there are easily won fights.
It is my knowledge that a group significantly disadvantaged can still defeat a stronger foe through fire and maneuver, good planning, and damn fine Infantry on the line.
Why else would he point his gun on the Councilor? Just to show it? We didn't have a chance to question him about that. The moment he draws his pistol, he is shot. The same applies to Asari Councilor. The moment Udina reaches for his pocket, send his ass flying off the balcony.
Because when other people are pointing their guns at you, you need some kind of leverage to have any hope of escaping the situation. For another, there's at least a 3 second delay after Udina has his gun pointed at the Councilor where nothing is happening. As I said, it's possible Udina intends to kill the Asari Councilor. But that's rather the point of a Mexican stand-off: everyone pulls out their guns, and no one knows with absolute certainty what's going to happen. Maybe everyone gets shot, maybe the tension gets diffused. Pulling out your gun does not require that you fire it. We can point to a number of movie examples where this happens: Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Way of the Gun (linked above).
Regarding your last point: He throws her to the ground, then pulls out his gun while she's reeling. She's already falling as he pulls out his gun, leaving no time to hit him with biotics, if the Councillor even has that capability.
Liara apparently developed hers enough to protect herself when she went out on digs, yet she cowered in fear while Shepard & Co. fought the krogan battlemaster and his geth buddies. Perhaps she was much more comfortable with defense than offense at that time.
Pulling out your gun does not require that you fire it. We can point to a number of movie examples where this happens: Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Way of the Gun (linked above).
This is not the case with Udina. It was the case with Kashley while they are pointing their gun at you but once they are dealt with (either by talking or shooting them), everyone is pointing their guns at Udina only. Nothing was stopping Shepard from putting a bullet in his head but it would be an assassination. Shepard was trying to make Udina surrender. When he draws his gun however, he is dead.
Udina had a chance to shove her only when she grabbed his hand. Instead of doing that, she could just throw him.
This is not the case with Udina. It was the case with Kashley while they are pointing their gun at you but once they are dealt with (either by talking or shooting them), everyone is pointing their guns at Udina only. Nothing was stopping Shepard from putting a bullet in his head but it would be an assassination. Shepard was trying to make Udina surrender. When he draws his gun however, he is dead.
Udina had a chance to shove her only when she grabbed his hand. Instead of doing that, she could just throw him.
Why expect a civilian to necessarily react appropriately in a combat situation? Even trained persons sometimes discover that they tend to react more like a "deer in the headlights" when suddenly confronted with the real deal... just as, sometimes, really untrained persons react very well and wind up saving their own lives. Tevos may be trained at using biotics but never in her life faced the reality of having to use them. In that moment, yeah, she fails miserably... but some people do fail miserably when put under such stress. The only thing that gives me pause is why Shepard would wait for Kaidan/Ashley to shoot... I react instinctively with the Renegade Interrupt every single time and I would expect them to shoot equally fast as Shepard. Udina should have fallen with at least two and probably four rounds in him.
One other scenario I question is Elnora's. She reaches for a gun, again, I hit the Renegade interrupt instinctively... yet, Shepard pauses to tell her she chose her side. Nah, she should just be dead without any explanation needed.... she reached for a gun. (If you look closely, she starts the move before the Renegade Interrupt and it just gets more definitive afterward when she says "Screw you.")
I always attributed that to being half-starved from her time trapped in the force field. Biotics have to be powered with your own energy, per the Codex.
Liara did mention in ME3 that asari education includes biotic training - but since she'd also mentioned (in ME1) that not all asari really develop their biotics, I assumed that whatever training was required in school was basic control, e.g., learn enough control to not poke holes in the walls.Liara apparently developed hers enough to protect herself when she went out on digs, yet she cowered in fear while Shepard & Co. fought the krogan battlemaster and his geth buddies. Perhaps she was much more comfortable with defense than offense at that time. Regardless, she panicked in that situation.I always role-played / headcanoned that Ashley got Liara & Tali zeegee certified on a primary weapon and Kaidan worked with them in the use of biotic and tech skills in combat once I brought them aboard the Normandy.
Udina had a chance to shove her only when she grabbed his hand. Instead of doing that, she could just throw him.
She was caught off guard that he pushed her to the ground.
Look at what happened on Thessia. The asari stands around like a dumba** while Leng runs to her. What does she do? Nothing. She ends up flying on Kai Leng Airlines. I would've had Leng kill her with his sword. But for some stupid reason, Bioware had Leng stick his sword in the ground
Now look at Mars. Ashley/Kaidan see the robot start running towards them. They push Liara out of the way and fire at the thing. Yes they end up seriously injured, but they didn't stand there like a dumba** doing nothing.
That's the difference from someone who has training and someone who doesn't
That's the difference from someone who has training and someone who doesn't
No, it's just a matter of cutscene competence. If you bring Ashley on TIM's base, she still looks stupidly out the window instead of keeping her guard up.
Liara most likely couldn't use her biotics on Therum. Although gameplay doesn't portray it, according to the lore biotics can't use their abilities if they get too fatigued or famished. Liara had been in suspended animation for a couple days, in which she couldn't eat or drink, and probably couldn't sleep.
I get that she was fatigued when Shepard finally reaches her, but I find it hard to believe that she was able to fight off pirates and wildlife when talking to her on the SR1. When talking to her while in the bubble, she says when she ran she must've hit the wrong button that trapped her in the bubble. She panicked. Then turns into a little wimp when facing the Kroganmaster by saying No, no , no or whatever. Those are traits that someone with any kind of training would not have or would want as a squadmate
No, it's just a matter of cutscene competence.
If that's the case, there are a lot of cutscenes in the trilogy that are incompetent
Spoiler
Udina had a chance to shove her only when she grabbed his hand. Instead of doing that, she could just throw him.
She was caught off guard that he pushed her to the ground.
Look at what happened on Thessia. The asari stands around like a dumba** while Leng runs to her. What does she do? Nothing. She ends up flying on Kai Leng Airlines. I would've had Leng kill her with his sword. But for some stupid reason, Bioware had Leng stick his sword in the ground
Now look at Mars. Ashley/Kaidan see the robot start running towards them. They push Liara out of the way and fire at the thing. Yes they end up seriously injured, but they didn't stand there like a dumba** doing nothing.
That's the difference from someone who has training and someone who doesn't
On the other hand, the Asari could have been like Anderson but just didn't have the time to find the best moment to fling the annoying booger away.
Didn't have the time to find the best moment to do something? If you have time to think about doing something, its enough time to get you killed. You have to react immediately.
I never liked Liara's background being entirely civilian, and thought her combat competence would have been more plausible if she had done a stint in the Asari armed forces before going on to university and archaeology. She mentions that her mother didn't approve of her going that route, and the two didn't speak for many years, so having Liara use military service as a means of paying for her education would have lined up with thatI get that she was fatigued when Shepard finally reaches her, but I find it hard to believe that she was able to fight off pirates and wildlife when talking to her on the SR1. When talking to her while in the bubble, she says when she ran she must've hit the wrong button that trapped her in the bubble. She panicked. Then turns into a little wimp when facing the Kroganmaster by saying No, no , no or whatever. Those are traits that someone with any kind of training would not have or would want as a squadmate
All this talk about Vigil and Saren reminded me of something...
Mass Effect is great.
I never liked Liara's background being entirely civilian, and thought her combat competence would have been more plausible if she had done a stint in the Asari armed forces before going on to university and archaeology. She mentions that her mother didn't approve of her going that route, and the two didn't speak for many years, so having Liara use military service as a means of paying for her education would have lined up with that
That is one thing I would change about her background. Have herin the asari military for however long. After some nagging from her mother about being concerned for the safety of her daughter, Liara leaves the military and chooses to study Protheans.
There is nothing she could have done however in the confrontation with the Krogan, even if she had been military. According to the lore she shouldn't have been able to use biotics, and since Shepard didn't bother to give her one of the four weapons strapped to his or her back, Liara had no means to defend herself. Her only two options were to get to cover or stand still and die.
I never asked for her to fight, though I would've since it was a do or die situation. I just mentioned she turned into a little wimp cowering like she did.
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