24 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilura]

So that if the player dies there is only the option to respawn a limited number of times; after which, the game ends (back to the title screen) and they must try again, from scratch?

[tobtor]

But wouldn't the player then just quit and reload from the menu/title screen?

 

Or are you suggesting banning saving altogether? How about crashes etc? I think it will be impossible to separate crashes and logging out to take a break, from quitting to being dead.

[Lilura]

NWN is pretty stable for me, so I'm not too worried about enforcing this. Lots of buggy games have this as an option; f.e, Temple of Elemental Evil.

 

I'm no expert, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's possible for a builder to corrupt any save the player makes?

 

Anyway, maybe there is a more elegant way to remove saving/loading from the game?

[icywind1980]

If this is for a single player mod please document the changes accordingly so people know what they're getting into, before giving it a try.

[Asymmetric]

The death screen can be customized to remove the respawn button. You could count the number of deaths and simply don't show it when the number exceeds a maximum.

I don't think you can prevent saving, but you can prevent reloading... kind of. There is no clean way to do this, but it could be achieved by scripting and using the database. I'd do the following:

• In the starting area of the module generate a unique ID (some long random number will do). This will be unique for each session or play-through (i.e same across multiple saves)
• The ID needs to be saved on the module (or alternatively on the player character) as a local variable. (SetLocalInt)
• In the database you need to create a entry: ID = number of deaths. (SetCampaignInt)
• Each time a player dies increment the number of deaths and save it in the database
• When the player attempts to reload a previous save, check the number of saves in the database for this session. If it exceeds your maximum, just kill him or teleport him into a separate area where he can't do anything.

This way the player can save and reload normally as long as he hasn't reached the max number of deaths. He can also start a new game with the same character because a new ID will be assigned in the starting area.

[Lilura]

Thank you so much for the detailed response.

[Shadooow]

The only way is to host such module as multiplayer server.

[KMdS!]

I can see Assymetrics idea working for a single player mod....as long as the user doesn't modify code to nerf it up.

[Shadooow]

or delete database

Modifié par Shadooow, 19 juin 2016 - 04:20 .

[Asymmetric]

For multiplayer modules you would want to create an ID for each player (or else the deaths would be shared between players), for PWs you need a different solution, but saving/loading isn't even a problem there.

 

Of course one could delete the database or change the scripts in the module. But that's basically cheating and in the end it would be easier to just use the dm_god console command.

[Lilura]

Yeah, one can't control what a cheater does with a file manager or the console, I guess.

[KMdS!]

Exactly under what circumstances do you want this performed? Is this for a mod your making, and is it a multiplayer, or single player mod? Anything other info  you can provide would help us give you a better answer. It is definitely doable, but via different means for different goals.

[Gregor Wyrmbane]

Yeah, one can't control what a cheater does with a file manager or the console, I guess.

 

Yes, and there's a very good reason for that.

 

Once one downloads a module from the internet that some other one has posted there to be downloaded, or buys a copy of the original game, that copy of the module or game becomes the property of the one who downloaded it and they can do what they want with it. Which is precisely what the ones who created the game, including the Aurora Tool set, intended.

 

It is impossible, by the definition of the word "cheater", for someone to cheat themselves. When one is playing a single player game, there is no one else for one to cheat. The reason the ones who created the game included the tool set and the capability to use the console commands is so each individual who plays the game may modify it to suit their own pleasure. After all, the purpose of playing games is to have fun. Not everyone agrees on what that entails.

 

For those who enjoy "controlling" how other individuals play this particular game, that is what PW's and private DM run multi player sessions are for.

[Lilura]

Oh, gawd. Not this trollish schtick again.

 

Thank god for the ignore feature.

[Lilura]

Is this for a mod your making, and is it a multiplayer, or single player mod?

 

Nah, it's just curiosity for single-player mode.

[AndrueD]

Is it possible to entirely remove the reload feature from NWN?

 

Why do this?  If module not debug right then player stuck with corrupt save.  Sumtime reload only way to fix module burp.  Many time toon get stuck behind placeable then not move so reload can fix.  If no, then must use console to still play module.

 

I C u want make control but this most player not want anyway so not play it. Better make death strip all item or sumthin have not change how they play SP.

[KMdS!]

Ah, curiosity....killed the cat you know.....

 

What the heck. The beauty of NWN is that you get to make and do whatever you want to do, within the limits of the game engine and your ability to create content for it. Though you may be out of your gourd, whatever makes you happy.     

 

I know I've spent plenty of time on what my friend calls stuff for shits and giggles.

[Sachie]

Why do this?  If module not debug right then player stuck with corrupt save.  Sumtime reload only way to fix module burp.  Many time toon get stuck behind placeable then not move so reload can fix.  If no, then must use console to still play module.

 

I C u want make control but this most player not want anyway so not play it. Better make death strip all item or sumthin have not change how they play SP.

 

There's also certain places in some modules where you can just get stuck against a wall, unable to move, even if there's no placeable to trap you. It seems more common in narrow passage tunnels. The only fix is as you said - reload the last save.

[Shadooow]

The death screen can be customized to remove the respawn button. You could count the number of deaths and simply don't show it when the number exceeds a maximum.

I don't think you can prevent saving, but you can prevent reloading... kind of. There is no clean way to do this, but it could be achieved by scripting and using the database. I'd do the following:

• In the starting area of the module generate a unique ID (some long random number will do). This will be unique for each session or play-through (i.e same across multiple saves)
• The ID needs to be saved on the module (or alternatively on the player character) as a local variable. (SetLocalInt)
• In the database you need to create a entry: ID = number of deaths. (SetCampaignInt)
• Each time a player dies increment the number of deaths and save it in the database
• When the player attempts to reload a previous save, check the number of saves in the database for this session. If it exceeds your maximum, just kill him or teleport him into a separate area where he can't do anything.

This way the player can save and reload normally as long as he hasn't reached the max number of deaths. He can also start a new game with the same character because a new ID will be assigned in the starting area.

Thought about this a bit more.

 

Concept is interesting. Limit number of deaths in singleplayer as well.

 

However this won't be any more effective than write in module description "You can die max 5 times in this module, if you die more times game is over."

 

Naturally, the load game function must be available.Mainly because player should not be expected to finish your module in one session. Second because player can get stuck/bugged or something.

 

And if loading is possible, then player can load game before he dies bypassing your concept entirely. Oh, I am going to die, reload.

 

If player doesn't want to follow the module rules, and in this case its very likely to happen because if player played module 2 hours and then just dies before end, he is not going to play it again from start, then he will simply not follow the rules and cheat. Whether he deteles database or load game before he dies doesn't matter.

 

 

So this won't work and module builder needs to plan around this. If you want to add extra difficulty by limiting how many times players dies, do it the other way around. Instead of ending module if players respawn 5 times, create a "perfection" achievement in the end of the module which will be calculated from how many times player died. Even then, player can cheat it obviously, but it will be less desired and builder doesn't have to worry about it too.

[Lilura]

Maybe assign DM-sanctified autosaves so that player doesn't have to complete the module in one sitting. They would have to be rare, though. It depends on the module's length, too.

 

I haven't been stuck/bugged in too many modules. If it can happen in any module, regardless of how carefully it's designed, then this is indeed an issue. However, if someone made a "hardcore" mod like this I personally would not be deterred by possible bugs or blackouts: I would give it a shot. Btw, I'm not really concerned that such a module would not be popular.

 

Save-scumming would also have to be addressed, yes. You shouldn't be able to bypass imminent death or fail-state of any kind.

 

Achievements for not dieing is pretty worthless, imo, because it doesn't stop save-scumming.

 

Overall, perhaps Aurora's flexibility and power still just isn't enough to make this sort of thing happen in SP. Like I said, it's just out of curiosity that I inquire into this.

[werelynx]

Look into how Soul Shaker is designed - every variable and position is stored in db, unless you want to really start over you can't delete the database.

You can die multiple times but the number of deaths is stored.

 

Couldn't finish it though, the mod is fairly complicated and not so intuitive. I as like 3 manuals and even after reading them I couldn't do it, heh.

[Sachie]

I haven't been stuck/bugged in too many modules. If it can happen in any module, regardless of how carefully it's designed, then this is indeed an issue. However, if someone made a "hardcore" mod like this I personally would not be deterred by possible bugs or blackouts: I would give it a shot. Btw, I'm not really concerned that such a module would not be popular.

 

After getting wall stuck on my favorite module (WCOC) when I wasn't saving, I decided to load up Darkness Over Daggerford as the tunnel in the evil druid lair was a spot that I had a high incidence of getting wall stuck on one of my prior computers - I was able to get wall stuck there too, but it took a bunch of tries to do it. Things like NWNCQ seem to increase the odds of getting stuck on walls and placeables just because it doesn't just change the appearance of the terrain, but I'm not willing to test this out any further due to the issues NWNCQ creates with ambient lighting.

[Grani]

OnModLoad event fires each time when the module is loaded, including loading a save file. At the same time, any local variables stored during your session are still there when loading, so you can rather easily check if the save file has been loaded and take actions accordingly.

 

But for what you want, you would need to use databases, to make sure no save file of this module can be loaded after the PC dies a specified number of times.

 

Of course the player can still delete the database and omit the limit, but I don't think you can disable such a cheat.

[AndrueD]

Ben thinkin more on wut OP try to do so ask:  Can module maker do wut Bioware did with some premium where they make go thru server b4 ppl can play?  Pretty sure Pirate one work this way.  No module show in list on PC so canna look or change stuff.  If OP can do that, can control things they want mayb.  Wonder if this dun by mod builder now.

[WebShaman]

As has been said, there is no cheating in a closed environment, SP game.  Once the SPlayer has DLed said Closed SP game, they decide on what rules they wish to play by.

 

Someone calling this something different does not change this. 

 

You may say that they are not playing by the rules that you intended them to play by - that is fair enough as the creator of the SP game.  But once you let it be a closed environment (meaning that no-one else is being affected by the playing of said SPlayer), then they are free to make their own rules according to their own wishes, not yours.

 

So they are not "cheaters" in the least if they decide to edit the game in question.  I tend to edit most Mods that I DL for NWN intensely to more closely fit them to my playstyle.  I do this because I might like the story, or the challenge of combat without all the other things that I do not like.  And that is my right to do so.

 

If one wishes to not allow this, then host the Mod online.  That is easy enough.