33 Antworten in diesem Thema

[KallenX]

Feeling in-between it all.  Threatening is too easy while Perilous is still being unforgiving to the point I simply am a detriment to any party on a non-tank class.

 

I feel bad for pugs when i play the assassin as i take the kills unless i make myself sit back, when going in and out of shadows to do my thing (what i enjoy about the class, constant movement).  Sitting at 470 and 41-26-44 .   I go to Perilous on a non-tank class (assassin) and I'm almost always 1-shot when the mobs get a chance to hit me.  Esp lurkers and Saarebas.  

 

How much Constitution/stats will i need to not have to worry about being instakilled?  I do play smart-ish, i'm sure there's always room for improvement, but i simply cannot avoid the stealth mobs in Perilous that 1 shot me getting in my face.  I'd love to move on to Perilous, i do the damage for it, but not the survivability.  It's almost enough to let the game sit unused and go play something else.  

 

I can get through NM on my lego/templar but can't get on Peri with my rogues? Not sure how the balance works here.

 

Suggestions?

[Xanterra]

I have significantly worse stats than you (16 20 23) and 421, and I have no issues in Perilous. I can't do perilous at level 1 on all classes, but it's definitely quite doable.
If you have barrier, it is unlikely that you will be instakilled, even on Nightmare. Even if you don't, you can see them coming via the target reticules, and many classes have abilities that will unstealth them before they get near you if they're your main problem. I know for quite a while archers with certain team compositions were running caltrops specifically to deal with those mobs. Additionally, there are certain weapons that give guard on hit, which will help somewhat with not getting one-shot. However, in the end, the best way to not die is to not get hit. Exploit corners, make them come to you, etc. I've done NM with a group of friends with 10/10/10 stats and mediocre gear and it wasn't easy, but it was doable because most damage is avoidable.

TL:DR - barrier or guard-on-hit weapons and actually use choke points. Don't pretend you're rambo unless you actually are.

If you're playing an assassin, you should never be out of stealth for long enough to get hit, and you don't have to worry about stray arrows anymore because of the stealth damage immunity that BLuke added.

Also, just a FYI - stats matter less than gear unless you have absolutely ludicrous levels of them. Getting the right weapons can make the difference between a character who kicks ass and takes names and someone who's always faceplanting. Savage Thorn/Audacity (I don't have the Hakkon dagger yet) on Isabella is beautiful.

[Jugger nuggss]

Even though they're atrocious, the drakescale armor can help a lot so you can grind to get that. Also, HoK rings and attachments to weapons are extremely helpful. Health (not healing) belts if you have them and many characters have passive that grant extra armor or health bonuses increase your survivability. Oh and make overpowered friends and get drug to greatness like I did.

[coldsteelblue]

Fight smarter not harder, rouges are great a dealing damage but cannot take a punch for love nor money (unless mega stats). Your stats are fine for peri & if you're going with the assassin the "I was never here" or is it "there"? Passive if defo something to get your teeth into.

 

That's all I've got to say, haven't played with my ass in sometime so can't really remember much else.

[KallenX]

I have Bosun's blade and Bloody Bargain both with superb runes and top end grips.  Drakescale armour with upgrades.  I have no issues with my tank classes, Assassin simply gets 1-hit ganked by blade handed mobs or one shot by a Saarebas landing in Peri.  I can solo Threatening with half an eye open.

 

Basically, I can take mobs out on Perilous, but it's the instakills on me that don't happen on Threatening.  I am not ready for Perilous if i can't survive.   I'm not taking ridiculous zerg-like approaches in Peri. (mind you i have to keep attacking to keep rebuilding life)  I've tried soloing Peri with her and i am fine until a Saarberas or blade-hand shows up, then it's game over.

 

I could put the Savage Thorn back on i suppose for reduced damage, not sure how much longer that will take.  Do the Savage Thorns x2 stack guard?

 

edit: Even with the thorn/guard, my health goes down very fast.

[Terrell_Campbe11]

Just to add my two cents to this. If you're talking about rogues specifically for perilous, there are a few things to help. The drakescake armor is very good for fragile classes such as rogues. Second, I'm kind of middle of the road in promotions and I still use the health belts for a lot of classes. Next, if you have the bloody bargain dagger, I would highly recommend it. The 17% HOK is great and the speed boost associated with it will help you to take out enemies before they can get multiple shots on you which is something fragile rogues can't afford. I never found much use of the savage thorn or other guard generating daggers (except for the SS which is a different story entirely...) since the assassin, alchemist, and duelist are kind squishy at first. And the guard generated doesn't help that much. I always thought the silencer and body bargain combo worked better at least until RNG is kind enough to grace you with the Hakkon dagger.

Specifically regarding the assassin; she is one of the frailest rogues in my opinion. That is why stealth is so vital. The passive that increases damage against isolated targets is a necessity. Also, the passive that refreshes stealth on kill will increase your survivability. Although it takes quite a few skill points to get there.

It always helps to use an ability instead of a basic attack whenever breaking stealth because of the increased damage of any attack out of stealth. Plus, many of the assassins attacking abilities will either knock the enemy down or stagger them which both provide more time to finish them off and reset stealth. I personally would go for isolated archers, spear throwers, wraiths, or other enemies that you know you can take down quickly while staying out of the clustered fray of melee enemies. Basically, don't expect to Rambo things at first and don't be afraid or embarrassed to take cover for a breather or to wait for cooldowns.

To answer your previous question, savage thorn x2 does not stack so it wouldn't be advised to take both.

[AutumnWitch]

I have been there. You just have to jump in and grind it out. Just work hard and find PUGs with people doing the same thing. I remember, I almost quit the game more than once because I was getting so frustrated dying with two hits on Peri and Threatening was too easy. But I just found a bunch of people better than me and watched how they played and started listening to more advice.

 

I feel a bit the same way with NM now. I have certain characters that still die with like two hits on NM and I get so frustrated. So I use the others that are tougher and am building my stats so my "tier one" characters can play at NM.

[russ4ua16]

Your stats are fine for perilous. Sounds like you need better gear and a team. You're also playing the squishiest toon available. The assassin used to be my favorite but it takes a totally different playstyle than all others and has a huge learning curve. Even when you play her perfectly, you may still die. Make sure to only attack from the flank so you generate zero threat. Do that and your only worry will be AoEs and cross fire. I used to have a guide for the assassin but it's really old. The two biggest things are- always be flanking and learning which mobs to avoid (revenants whose swing is 360°, etc).

Edit- Unlock the Saarebas, learn a good support build and make friends by being a barrier bot. It's boring but it generates tons of XP, enables you to handle higher difficulties and is the best class available. Getting your willpower up is almost as important as constitution- killing things faster is like having more health.

[lcneed]

If you feel like you can't take a few hits in perilous as a rogue, do not play assassin.    I see so many new comers playing assassin thinking because she got stealth, she is more survivable.  It is true if you just hide and do not attack.   The thing is that if you are playing with a strong team, she won't get too many kills and cannot get back to stealth.  flank attack upgrade is good, but when you miss... you are out in the open.

 

I am sure you know that silent sister is the most survivable rogue.. but if you don't want to play her because she plays like a warrior, I would go for archer.   Archer with heartstring bow is really hard to be killed.

[redeyedeath]

I mostly play the alchemist and silent sister.  Not a huge fan of how the assassin plays.  I'd rather deal with moon mines than have a flank attack or twin fangs miss again.  I always liked to take hook and tackle.

 

On another note, defenses raised from stats can really help for perilous and higher.  Drakescale makes threatening a joke. 

 

For every stat past 10:

 

Constitution = 0.5 melee defense

Willpower = 0.5 magic defense

Cunning = 0.5 ranged defense

[Rhorim]

If your requirements are being able to semi-face tank as an assassin, then you'll be waiting for a long time to play perilous.  Now if your requirement is can kill an archer before they hit me, then you should be ready now.  Have to play to the class's strengths.  Assassins pretty much go around killing ranged, then slip off into stealth.  

[Terrell_Campbe11]

Agreed, Archer is great and extremely powerful. Since cooldowns are reduced when anyone in the group crits, you'll almost never have cooldowns. If you're having survivability issues, take spike trap and leaping shot. With heartstring bow, you can heal 12% off a single leaping shot even if you don't get the kill. Also you can stand right in front of a spike trap (though staying mobile is usually better) to ensure that any sneaky stabby rogues will trip the trap before 1-shotting you. I also used bow of cruel redemption or bow of artifice for the longest time until I got better ones.

Edit: wow i got double ninja'd!

[lcneed]

Another good thing about playing archer is that if there is a keeper just stay near her.   You keep her protected from rogues with spike traps and caltrops, she barriers both of you for protection and support xp!   I have been playing my keeper quite a bit lately and I really hate stealth rogues.. the ones on my team!  I can't keep them alive.

[KallenX]

This is how easy threatening is. I have too much self respect tho to post the instant deaths in Peri... ;p

 

[lcneed]

heh you know you are face tanking with your rogue in threatening right?  The only time you were going to stealth was because you want to do the huge damage with your bosun blade from the back.   You could do the same now on perilous with your silent sister.   I think your promotion is good enough for that.  If you want to face tank with assassin or alchemist.. you probably need to get to 70+ con/cunnings.   I don't remember the exact number for easy perilous soloing.  I think at around 120 you could face tank perilous with lv 1 mages....

[UnearthlyCheese]

I have a similar problem. I'm 43/43/41, starting to get pretty decent gear. I completely wreck shop in Threatening, but struggle a bit in Perilous.

I've kind of given up on playing certain classes for the moment, focusing on power leveling the ones that I know can survive. Right now, I'm using the Katari, Arcane Warrior, Silent Sister, and Sarabaas.

With these classes, I do a couple games in threatening, then jump up to Perilous. With the AW and Sarabaad, I finish off the last couple of levels in NM.

I can get through a Perilous match with my Archer and Hunter, but compared to the SS, have to spend too much time on the defensive. Right now my goal is to power through promotes to make some of the other classes more viable. I'm looking to get to 50/50/50 to start, and then will probably power level my Willpower. As said above, the faster things die, the more HoK I get, which makes things much easier. Also on Perilous and NM, on FC, I die to the fire/lightning from the dragon as much or more than from enemies, so I'm hoping the increase in Willpower will help with that.

I know how you feel though lol. It's not fun pwning threatening and taking kills away from other people, and it's not very fun getting carried through higher difficulties >.<

[AutumnWitch]

My theory on assassin above Threatening? Use her like an actual assassin. Stay in the shadows, live in stealth. Attack from behind. Be very aware of who is around you, avoid big groups . Shadow the tanks and support them. She isn't a tank. I play her on NM quite often now using that theory and she does fine, tho yes she will die now and then but that is the life of a rogue. Save up your stamina and use your abilities wisely. Don't waste twin fangs on things that are easy to kill. That sort of thing. She is great and can tear things up if played that way. 

[Sophloph]

Couple things worth mentioning...'I was never here' is an absolute must, but to make up for those times when you Twin Fangs and stab the ground, pick up flank attack with the upgrade so that you can strike then back to stealth whether you kill or not. I usually grab Shadow Strike for the 4th ability for detonation/finishing move when needed. Your job and role is to pick out singular targets on the outskirts of the combat ring, not to be anywhere near the middle of attention. If you are playing with any Ice mages, look for frozen targets to Twin Fangs for big combos with damage. I believe the threat reduction of 100% comes from a passive that applies when attacking from the flank of an enemy, so see which points you need to get there. In my opinion, Twin Fangs is awesome especially with a ring, and you have Bosun's blade! That must be awesome! However, your job will never be to go head to head with a Saarebas, instead look for where your attacks could be better used to wipe out mages casting annoying runes and such, archers poking people in the head, and even making the enemy rogues look stupid when they sneak up behind a mage teammate! I don't play much assassin on perilous until level 12+, and I make that decision based upon how powerful my group is. If I'm the frontrunner, I stick to more survivable classes. If I'm in the middle or the bottom damage dealer, then stab stab stab! So much fun. Last thing I was gonna add is about Twin Fangs. It is a crazy damage ability with good daggers, but it favors hitting stationary targets, so never target mobs that are in pursuit of someone. Quite similar in my opinion to Pommel Strike, its so embarassing when you keep falling 6" short of hitting the target 3/4/5 times in a row!

[russ4ua16]

Stealth, kill. Stealth, kill. Never, ever attack from front.

[Texasmotiv]

The video definitely does shed light on the problem. If you do indeed play on peri like this, that is the reason you are going down so fast. I hate playing the assassin as it is a high risk/low reward playstyle. You have to work 4 times harder to get 1/2 the xp of other classes.

 

With the assassin you really have to game the AI, and understand where it is safe to stand, who it is safe to attack, when you are safe to be out of stealth. Just not worth it IMO when you can just play an SS and spam spinning blades.

 

For the record the Alchemist is my favorite rogue. I take the alchemist in NM all the time with Stealth/FoFire/FoFrost/Mines:

 

-Stealth up and get in position (a few yds away from teh enemies so that your mines land on them or where they are about to walk

-Fire Flask and litter the battle field with mines, watch this kill everyone (savage thorn fills up your guard)

-Frost Flask and freeze as much as you can for XP, face tank as necessary while FoFrost is up.

-Go in stealth if you even suspect someone will hit you.

-Repeat

 

This works well with Silencer as the hidden blade procs will shatter your frozen enemies. I tend to pay more attention to my positioning and get myself in choke points and near walls and entice enemies to my mines rather than taking the fight to them.

 

Pro tip: if you are surrounded by enemies that are right up on you, go to a wall and spam mines TOWARD the wall, they will bounce off the wall and land right on top of enemies that are attacking you.

[lcneed]

Just for fun, I tried assassin face tank NM.   Vs DS, died in map1.  Vs RT died in map1.   Vs Venatori died in map1.   I stopped trying after that.    Need more promotions.

[russ4ua16]

I hate playing the assassin as it is a high risk/low reward playstyle.

Gotta disagree, respectfully. No class is more rewarding for me. The challenge and the huge damage are good rewards imo. But, I hate the warriors and you may love them. We all have different tastes.

[Rhorim]

Think he was referring to the amount of xp gained.  Not like you can generate support xp like a keeper or reaver.

[KallenX]

I posted to show how safe threatening is, but with enough promotions, an assassin/alchemist etc should be able to play like this as dexterity should allow the rogue to dodge attacks and still strike high damage body targets.  One of my original questions was what is the promotion level to attain that will allow survival from AI gank attacks.  I don't die from playing like this in Peri, i do fine, it's the backstabs on me that instant kill (that and saarebas rocket smashing.. but now that i think about it more, that may be due to low magic resistance).    I see a lot of assumptions about my gameplay here, but it's not the case.  I am pretty adept at vanishing, watching the AI run past me (so I know i dont have aggro) then going at them.   The passive of reduced aggro helps a lot as these guys often will just keep running right past me to a higher aggro target (Warrior?).

 

Aside from this, i don't really see the aggro tables functioning.  When on the lego and i drop the aggro ability, most of the time it doesn't actually get mobs attention, not like tanking in WoW anyways.  I don't like the term 'face tank'  as I'm not trying to hold 8 mobs at once for other party members to finish off.  Playing solo, you have mobs head on a good percentage of time unless you happen to have the stealth on kill cooldown removal passive, and even then it happens.  I don't see facing your target as a non rogue thing, the ganking ability makes sense if you're paid to make a lethal hit on one target and then disappear.

 

I love rogues, my favourite class and the reason i played one in WoW for so long (until they destroyed the class irreparably).   I used to hate hunters, but they are alright in this game. No wild & crazy Mabari pet dps works for me.

 

Abusing the elemental mines is something i disagree with.  They are good but shouldn't be your primary weapon of mass AI extermination.  I'd have preferred the alchemist to have been given special grenades that do things the vanilla grenades cannot.   I like the ele mines, however the dropping of 500 mines seems a bit much. I do as much or more damage using regular mine drops and poison a la Bosun/stealth.  You can see i use the mines as added flavour, aside from that LOS kiting of mobs over them for fun and profit.

 

edit: the higher levels should then make AI mobs have a higher counter percentage making more stealthy routines necessary.  As there really are no armour upgrades after Drakescale, there are few options to mitigate these.  Does Dexterity improve the % chance to dodge an attack from behind?  Is DAIMP that advanced?

[Terrell_Campbe11]

Unfortunately, the red Templar shadow, aka Mr.-Didn't-Your-Mother-Ever-Tell-You-Not-To-Run-With-Scissors, will probably be an insta-kill on assassins and alchemists if he hits his ridiculous backstabbing attack on you even if you have the best armor and higher constitution. That's just the downfall of playing those specific rogues. Staying mobile and always trying to watch where those specific enemies are is the best way to avoid it.

I don't think that should discourage you from trying perilous though. Your stats look fine for it to me. However, each class has their disadvantages and the rogues' generally are lower survivability than say warriors. And finally, the faster XP generation in perilous will allow you to level up characters faster and improve your stats and reduce your damage taken which will slowly solve the issue. The added challenge is probably more fun than sleeping through threatening matches anyway.