71 réponses à ce sujet

[MrFob]

I thought the ME series had pretty good PC ports so far. If they keep that quality up, I'll be happy enough.

[ssanyesz]

The last-gen console version would like to say "hello".

 

It somehow has even less.

 

DA2 had way better pc controls and gui than DA:I, yet it was released for consoles as well, not to mention DA:O... Poor ports has nothing to do with consoles, it has everything to do with how much effort the developers put into making the PC version of the game.

 

Keyboard controls for DAI are playable but very much sub optimal for me. If it's as bad in MEA as it was in DAI, then that's a worry for MEA with it's shooting component.

 

 

Bad UI doesn't particularly bother me unless features are too hard to find.  I found ME1's UI neatly laid out,  but some features hard to find.

 

Agreed DA:I controls are a mess, it is a torment to play a melee rogue, in previous Dragon Age's it was easy and fluent to controll a character.

 

But thanks to ME is tps shooter game, i didn't have any controlling issues there, but the interface and its controlls were better in ME1 and ME3 than in ME2.

[ssanyesz]

This.

ME 1-3, whether port or no, and while not perfect, were at least acceptable movement-wise on PC.

Same with DA2.

DAI however, was and is atrocious in comparison. Specifically, with movement and cursor control; no mouse look without holding down right mouse continually, and a cursor that moves to its own logic while you are moving your character with w,s,a, or d. Try comparing ME3MP to DAIMP on PC for illustration.

This was their first take on the FB3 engine, let's hope MEA turns out different, or at least like the predecessors. Since it's a shooter, it probably will, except that DA2, which is not a pure shooter and on a different engine, turned out OK in terms of movement, while DAI definitely did not.

Wavebend did a bunch of good work modding DAI movement for PC (Google his vids), it's just that the damm dev's should do it, not the player community.

 

I think they messed up there, when PC's action mode/camera could use tactical camera's click to move and auto attack and follow enemy and attack function, because the tactical camera were also a mess at least for the PC port, and it worked great in DA:O and in DA2, they just had to mess it up for unknown reasons.

[nfi42]

DA2 had way better pc controls and gui than DA:I, yet it was released for consoles as well, not to mention DA:O... Poor ports has nothing to do with consoles, it has everything to do with how much effort the developers put into making the PC version of the game.

 

 

Agreed DA:I controls are a mess, it is a torment to play a melee rogue, in previous Dragon Age's it was easy and fluent to controll a character.

 

 

0bvious reason. is they ran out of time and couldn't be bothered.  Same goes for flipping between tactical/overshoulder mode. As well as the beautiful world just waiting for an actual game to be in it.

[AlanC9]

I think they mess up there, when PC's action mode/camera could use tactical camera's click to move and auto attack and follow enemy and attack function, because the tactical camera were also a mess at least for a PC port, and it worked great in DA:O and in DA2, they just had to mess it up for unknown reasons.

Everyone figures that it's something to do with the way Frostbite handles the camera. It seems to have to be tied to a character.

[NRieh]

Frostbite is notorious for being anti-mod. ME:A ain't getting modded.

DAI has mods, lots of them. Had since before there was a decent way to install them (3rd party software had been required). Can't say that it's all super-friendly now, but nothing too complex about it. Sooner or later, one way or another people are going to mod things anyway.

 

As for the 'PC-port' thing - ME is far from the worst PC ports I've seen, the only thing I hated was the impossibility to remap ME3MP hotkeys (as few as they are). Other than that it was decent, may be even good.   

 

 

DAI however, was and is atrocious in comparison. Specifically, with movement and cursor control;

Let me tell you a little something - it was not much better with the xbox360 gamepad (which was the 'native' device). DAI had a sub-par UI (to put it mildly). Bad UI is...well, bad. And don't even get me started about the 'on-fly' controls change (lack of thereof, actually - one had to save&quit first).

 

There's no excuse for removing the 'quick-map' and 'quick-save' buttons from PC mapping. They had only been added with one of the most recent patches. And guess what? Keyboard shortcuts did not work while the gamepad was on. 

[JamieCOTC]

I remapped some keys on all ME games, but for the most part I thought there were fine. DA:O too. DA2 was "ok" but not great. DA:I sucked.

[In Exile]

Let me tell you a little something - it was not much better with the xbox360 gamepad (which was the 'native' device). DAI had a sub-par UI (to put it mildly). Bad UI is...well, bad. And don't even get me started about the 'on-fly' controls change (lack of thereof, actually - one had to save&quit first).

 

There's no excuse for removing the 'quick-map' and 'quick-save' buttons from PC mapping. They had only been added with one of the most recent patches. And guess what? Keyboard shortcuts did not work while the gamepad was on. 

I actually tried the gamepad - it was awful, way worse than KBM. I can't for the life of me get why anyone actually prefers the gamepad. Though it does make sense that you can use the KBM with the keyboard - the tactical view works differently with it, and I can see that it would be a programming disaster to try and get the two to work synergistically. Presumably, if Bioware had the money to work on that, they'd work on a less **** UI. 

 

 

0bvious reason. is they ran out of time and couldn't be bothered.  Same goes for flipping between tactical/overshoulder mode. As well as the beautiful world just waiting for an actual game to be in it.

 

You mean, out of money. I know people are generally unfamiliar with how a business works, but "time" is actually money, in the sense that the hours a developer works on a feature aren't free: you have to pay that person. And if you want more hours, people are either working overtime (where you pay them even more) or you need to hire more people. Or, I suppose, you delay your game, and then pay the same person more money for more hours. 

[ssanyesz]

Lets just all hope we'll get at least ME1 or ME3 quality PC port.

[nfi42]

I actually tried the gamepad - it was awful, way worse than KBM. I can't for the life of me get why anyone actually prefers the gamepad. Though it does make sense that you can use the KBM with the keyboard - the tactical view works differently with it, and I can see that it would be a programming disaster to try and get the two to work synergistically. Presumably, if Bioware had the money to work on that, they'd work on a less **** UI. 

 

 

 

You mean, out of money. I know people are generally unfamiliar with how a business works, but "time" is actually money, in the sense that the hours a developer works on a feature aren't free: you have to pay that person. And if you want more hours, people are either working overtime (where you pay them even more) or you need to hire more people. Or, I suppose, you delay your game, and then pay the same person more money for more hours. 

 

Yeah that's what I meant.  For whatever reason,  development of DAI was a mess spiraling out of control. 2 options were can it, or release it with a big media blitz.

 

For me, once bitten, twice shy.  Short term win,  I hope it's not a long term loss.

[In Exile]

Yeah that's what I meant.  For whatever reason,  development of DAI was a mess spiraling out of control. 2 options were can it, or release it with a big media blitz.

 

For me, once bitten, twice shy.  Short term win,  I hope it's not a long term loss.

 

It clearly looks like getting Frostbite to work was an (easily expected) disaster for them. I expect that was the main issue. 

[nfi42]

It clearly looks like getting Frostbite to work was an (easily expected) disaster for them. I expect that was the main issue. 

 

 

You can add the EA mandated multiplayer aspect,  and the vision too complex for gen 3 consoles as well.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

It's not a port. Look, having a shitty PC UI - which is about the only thing people can point to DA:I being a port - doesn't mean a game isn't designed for the PC. Nor does a framerate lock, seeing as how unlocking it leads to a game-breaking bug. There's a difference between design decisions made because you're having a multiplatform release, and actually porting a game designed for a different system. 

 

 

Case in point. That doesn't make it a port. TW2 was designed to work with the Xbox controller, but the 360 port didn't come out for a long time. 

 

Well, yeah, port is the wrong word there. I agree. It was designed for a controller and them clumsily mapped to keyboard. Better?

 

Anyway, not the place or time to debate the DAI controls. Mass effect controls were always just fine on the PC, despite being mostly controller focused. For instance the list boxes in various screens. The cursor is stuck in the middle of the list and clicking on another entry moves it to the middle. A little disorienting but you get used to it. It is what it is.It worked consistently. The DAI list box tried to be a regular mouse driven list box but failed due to it allowing you to click to focus on any entry but still trying to enforce the cursor in the middle whenever you performed an action. I'm probably not explaining that well.

[In Exile]

Well, yeah, port is the wrong word there. I agree. It was designed for a controller and them clumsily mapped to keyboard. Better?

 

Anyway, not the place or time to debate the DAI controls. Mass effect controls were always just fine on the PC, despite being mostly controller focused. For instance the list boxes in various screens. The cursor is stuck in the middle of the list and clicking on another entry moves it to the middle. A little disorienting but you get used to it. It is what it is.It worked consistently. The DAI list box tried to be a regular mouse driven list box but failed due to it allowing you to click to focus on any entry but still trying to enforce the cursor in the middle whenever you performed an action. I'm probably not explaining that well.

 

I'm not sure I agree, because I think it's actually worse on controller. I just think Bioware could not figure out how to make FB3 work with the scheme they created in DAO/DA2, and just stumbled right out of the game trying to design a scheme that 1) worked with FB3 and 2) could work with both KBM and Controller while 3) allowing for all platforms to enjoy the same features as in DA:O/DA2. 

[nfi42]

Well, yeah, port is the wrong word there. I agree. It was designed for a controller and them clumsily mapped to keyboard. Better?

 

Anyway, not the place or time to debate the DAI controls. Mass effect controls were always just fine on the PC, despite being mostly controller focused. For instance the list boxes in various screens. The cursor is stuck in the middle of the list and clicking on another entry moves it to the middle. A little disorienting but you get used to it. It is what it is.It worked consistently. The DAI list box tried to be a regular mouse driven list box but failed due to it allowing you to click to focus on any entry but still trying to enforce the cursor in the middle whenever you performed an action. I'm probably not explaining that well.

I think I got the gist of it.

 

The DAI controls were awful. Is that right?

[NRieh]

 

I actually tried the gamepad - it was awful, way worse than KBM. I can't for the life of me get why anyone actually prefers the gamepad.

It all depends. Actions, scrollers, platformers and hack-slashers or brawlers are much better with the gamepad. FP-shooters are better with KBM, but that's only true for the real shooters, not something like Bioshock:Infinite (a good game, but if it's no more a 'shooter' than Diablo 1 is an 'RPG'). It's hard to say where MEA would land with its combat, but it had never been the 'Unreal Tournament 99' anyway. Cover&regeneration-based systems are rather gamepad-friendly, I'm going to try all the options they give us.

 

The issue with DAI was not that it had not been ported well, it had never been designed well to begin with. In its vanilla sate the gamepad worked much better, but it was still awkward. Had never tried the 'fixed' KBM UI, because by the moment they had 'fixed' it I had laready beaten the game (and got used to the controller too). 

[nfi42]

It all depends. Actions, scrollers, platformers and hack-slashers or brawlers are much better with the gamepad. FP-shooters are better with KBM, but that's only true for the real shooters, not something like Bioshock:Infinite (a good game, but if it's no more a 'shooter' than Diablo 1 is an 'RPG'). It's hard to say where MEA would land with its combat, but it had never been the 'Unreal Tournament 99' anyway. Cover&regeneration-based systems are rather gamepad-friendly, I'm going to try all the options they give us.

 

The issue with DAI was not that it had not been ported well, it had never been designed well to begin with. In its vanilla sate the gamepad worked much better, but it was still awkward. Had never tried the 'fixed' KBM UI, because by the moment they had 'fixed' it I had laready beaten the game (and got used to the controller too). 

 

Most people claim this about gamepad/KBM,  I however always prefer keyboard on any game.

 

The only thing that improved the KBM controls for me was the autoshoot, and the only reason I say that is that it made sword combat tolerable. Was the UI ever changed for PC?

[In Exile]

It all depends. Actions, scrollers, platformers and hack-slashers or brawlers are much better with the gamepad. FP-shooters are better with KBM, but that's only true for the real shooters, not something like Bioshock:Infinite (a good game, but if it's no more a 'shooter' than Diablo 1 is an 'RPG'). It's hard to say where MEA would land with its combat, but it had never been the 'Unreal Tournament 99' anyway. Cover&regeneration-based systems are rather gamepad-friendly, I'm going to try all the options they give us.

 

The issue with DAI was not that it had not been ported well, it had never been designed well to begin with. In its vanilla sate the gamepad worked much better, but it was still awkward. Had never tried the 'fixed' KBM UI, because by the moment they had 'fixed' it I had laready beaten the game (and got used to the controller too). 

 
It's the vanilla scheme I'm talking about - I found KBM to be far superior, because I had a mouse. I could use WASD to move and scroll around far better than I could using the thumbstick, and I also had the benefit of the mouse, basically giving me a much broader and finer range of control vs. the gamepad. I do think gamepads work well for certain types of games - particularly those that require frequent button presses (i.e., fighting games, certain kind of adventure games). 

 

I find any kind of shooter to be better with KBM, because the mouse allows me a great deal finer control over aiming, and therefore rendering it much easier to e.g. make a headshot. I tried the controller when people said on the forum it was better, and just found it to be inferior in every way - even navigating the menu was worse for me, and those were obviously designed for a gamepad. 

[QueenofPixals]

I have never understood the love of the keyboard and the hate for controllers.  There are some games I love playing with a keyboard and others that just work better with a controller and for me shooters are one of the games styles I like best for controllers.  I just feel like I am aiming more  if that makes any sense.  But regardless, just play your way and give others the same consideration. 

[In Exile]

I have never understood the love of the keyboard and the hate for controllers.  There are some games I love playing with a keyboard and others that just work better with a controller and for me shooters are one of the games styles I like best for controllers.  I just feel like I am aiming more  if that makes any sense.  But regardless, just play your way and give others the same consideration. 

 

I'm sure a big part of it for me is that I grew up on FPS games with KBM, like Half Life and especially Counterstrike. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I'm not sure I agree, because I think it's actually worse on controller. I just think Bioware could not figure out how to make FB3 work with the scheme they created in DAO/DA2, and just stumbled right out of the game trying to design a scheme that 1) worked with FB3 and 2) could work with both KBM and Controller while 3) allowing for all platforms to enjoy the same features as in DA:O/DA2. 

 

Well, I don't know about controller because I hate using the things. I'm old and set i my ways But no, I'm not suggesting the KBM controls are better or worse that controller. Just that I didn't like them.

 

Actually I suspect they worked out a scheme that could be shared with multiplayer. Action combat, no need for ordering around the other group members, that sort of thing. Then they shoved all the old style team play into the 'tac cam' mode.

 

I think I got the gist of it.

 

The DAI controls were awful. Is that right?

 

That and I think the MEA controls will be fine based on the previous games.

 

Most people claim this about gamepad/KBM,  I however always prefer keyboard on any game.

 

The only thing that improved the KBM controls for me was the autoshoot, and the only reason I say that is that it made sword combat tolerable. Was the UI ever changed for PC?

 

No, no UI changes.

[nfi42]

I'm sure a big part of it for me is that I grew up on FPS games with KBM, like Half Life and especially Counterstrike. 

 

 

Same for me except I started gaming later in life with mostly with shooters.  By the time I tried a controller, I didn't like it and couldn't be bothered to try to get used to it.

don't play fighting games, but withother games a mouse with a couple extra side buttons and keyboard remapping is always more than sufficient.  DAI was just sufficient.

[SofaJockey]

A significant element of Kb/m vs. controller is what you are used to.

When I first picked up Mass Effect (1) on Console after a PC copy I hated, the controller control.

So many years of practice later I prefer it.

[Silvos]

Not anti-mod, just they haven't released the tools yet. Probably is not Bioware's call. It is EA's property. I don't even know if it is Johan from DICE's call and this engine is his baby.

 

ME 1-3 were very easily modifiable (could even change the ending of 3) because they were Unreal Engine 3 and Tim Sweeney has always been a really open source advocate (you can see him attacking Microsoft's UWP on a daily basis for the possible closed nature).

 

Until EA decides to give people tools? Yeah, modding anything frostbite is going to be very hard if not impossible and they could block any progress made with a patch to the game/origin etc.

 

Johan is a very open source guy to. Am not trying to make him look bad. He is also very for the consumer and pushed low level API's (Mantle) on PC and EA gave him the resources to do that, which is a nice thing for PC Gamers.

 

One of the stated goals of the Frostbite engine is being very difficult to mod. That's a design feature, not something they're working to fix.

[AlanC9]

@ SofaJockey: Yeah, I've never seen the use for anything but KB/M myself, flight sims excepted. Tried gamepads a couple of times, but I couldn't figure out what problem they were trying to solve.