210 réponses à ce sujet

[JamieCOTC]

Let's pretend that ME:A has no connection to how well ME3 was (or was not) received and for the sake of argument ME:A would have been the follow up to the trilogy regardless. Most likely the Council and Alliance would not have wanted Shepard to know for a multitude of reasons, but she would have found out anyway.  And according to the N7 Day trailer, apparently she did.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Well since Shepard was probably in jail when the ark launch takes place it's a pretty good guess that they wouldn't want him/her on it.. because y'know waiting trial.

[MrFob]

Say what you will about Liara's minor gaps in knowledge during ME3, but there's no way that the Shadow Broker wouldn't have had a dossier of info about the ark ships.

 

I think this is an excellent point. I do wonder how they will resolve these issues (if they can).

[Iakus]

I agree, but it won't stop many, many people from trying to get on for X, Y, and Z reasons.

Won't stop nutters from trying to sabotage it, either.

Well, the Apollo program managed to get people on the moon, so...

[Anacronian Stryx]

Maybe it happens like this.

 

The Virtual Aliens Actually believes Shepherds warnings and say "Hey flesh and bone dudes we are gonna flee to Andromeda before the reapers come  and hey we have rooms in our freezers for some of your people if they wanna come"

 

And the council was like "Sure "reapers".. but hey go ahead.

 

So the "ark" ships are just the virtual aliens ships.

 

would be kinda cool i think.

[UpUpAway]

Depends on when in the game you're talking about... but mostly, "that information is on a need to know basis"... and Shepard doesn't need to know.

 

The bigger point here is, if you're writing a series and you want to leave yourself some openings to continue it later... would you let the audience know everything that the characters should know right off the bat?  Answer is, definitely not.  It's not uncommon for authors to withhold information about what the individual characters actually know until they (the authors) are ready to reveal it.  If you don't believe me... go back and read some mystery novels while you're waiting for ME:A to get released.

[MrFob]

Depends on when in the game you're talking about... but mostly, "that information is on a need to know basis"... and Shepard doesn't need to know.

 

The bigger point here is, if you're writing a series and you want to leave yourself some openings to continue it later... would you let the audience know everything that the characters know right off the bat?  Answer is, definitely not.  It's not uncommon for authors to withhold information about what the individual characters actually know until they (the authors) are ready to reveal it.  If you don't believe me... go back and read some mystery novels while you're waiting for ME:A to get released.

 

Wait, do you mean to say that you believe that the devs already had ME:A in mind when making ME3? 'Cause I'd really doubt that one.

 

So IMO, the real question is, how well will they do in making this plot work retroactively?

 

I can totally see them not telling Shepard (too exposed, danger of indoctrination, has other priorities, etc.) but with a project of that size, which involves almost all species of the galaxy, for Liara (i.e.  the Shadow Broker) not to know about it, that sounds a bit far fetched to me. Even if you believe that she is incompetent, with the network she inherited, it would basically be impossible not to pick up on something like this.

 

Now, maybe you could say that she did know and also chose not to say anything to Shep but especially for a Shep who romanced her, I find that also extremely unlikely (especially give how often Shep can express doubt and despair in LotSB and ME3 and how much Liara is shown to trust him/her). IMO, they'd have to come up with a really good explanation for why she apparently didn't hear word one about this project.

[UpUpAway]

Depends on if Plan B's already launched or not.

If the ark ships are already gone, then yeah, Shepard doesn't really need to know.

If the ark ships are in development and eating resources that should be going to the Crucible, then Shepard needs to know.

 

Why does he/she need to know?  Shepard is not managing/allocating the resources... Shepard is collecting them and has been ordered simply to gather EVERYTHING he/she can and get them to Hackett.  Hackett needs to know and probably does.  Shepard still doesn't need to know.  Also, Hackett is certainly not above lying to Shepard and using Shepard as a "patsy" (For example, if you did the Renegade quest in ME1 with Darius, you can basically get an admission from Hackett that Shepard isn't the only one willing to break the rules to get the job done.)

 

Also, Shepard is merely a Commander (never even makes the rank of Captain)... people here seem to want to give him/her too much power and too much access to all knowledge that just doesn't coincide with his/her actual rank in the Alliance.

[SKAR]

Well, the Apollo program managed to get people on the moon, so...

Or did it? Conspiracy.

[PlatonicWaffles]

Absolutely. If the Andromeda ships leave before the end of 3 then they're going to have an incredibly well written reason for Shepard not being in the know for me to stomach it.

[UpUpAway]

Wait, do you mean to say that you believe that the devs already had ME:A in mind when making ME3? 'Cause I'd really doubt that one.

 

So IMO, the real question is, how well will they do in making this plot work retroactively?

 

I can totally see them not telling Shepard (too exposed, danger of indoctrination, has other priorities, etc.) but with a project of that size, which involves almost all species of the galaxy, for Liara (i.e.  the Shadow Broker) not to know about it, that sounds a bit far fetched to me. Even if you believe that she is incompetent, with the network she inherited, it would basically be impossible not to pick up on something like this.

 

Now, maybe you could say that she did know and also chose not to say anything to Shep but especially for a Shep who romanced her, I find that also extremely unlikely (especially give how often Shep can express doubt and despair in LotSB and ME3 and how much Liara is shown to trust him/her). IMO, they'd have to come up with really good explanation for why she apparently didn't hear word one about this project.

 

However, Liara is STILL THE SHADOW BROKER... supposedly an expert in the buying and selling and trading of secret information.  IF she's all loosey goosey about keeping secrets from her lover... it would make her a "very poor information broker" indeed.

 

As for your first statement - there is a difference to having ME:A in mind and leaving yourself some wiggle "room" to create an "unspecified" sequel at a later date.

[SKAR]

Wait just a minute......... who the **** said he/she didn't know? We have no reason to believe that we left because of reapers. It was made up of volunteers. Maybe shep was dead, didn't want to go, or was fighting the collectors and Reapers. The point is that him/her knowing or not doesn't matter. He/she is not there.

[MrFob]

However, Liara is STILL THE SHADOW BROKER... supposedly an expert in the buying and selling and trading of secret information.  IF she's all loosey goosey about keeping secrets from her lover... it would make her a "very poor information broker" indeed.

 
Really? You think she would keep from Shepard that there is this flicker of hope, especially given the conversations they have in ME3 (and even more especially if they are together)? In that case we seem to have a very different view on these characters.
 
Even logically, it wouldn't make sense for her to hold back. The indoctrination danger is irrelevant in her case since they are together on the Normandy/in battle anyway and would share the same fate. If she know, Shep might as well know, too. And she clearly doesn't think the Shep is already indoctrinated or a security risk in any way. After all, she even shares her own contingency plan (the time capsules).
 
Sorry, IMO the reason "she is an information broker and keeps secrets" is not good enough in this case.

 

Wait just a minute......... who the **** said he/she didn't know? We have no reason to believe that we left because of reapers. It was made up of volunteers. Maybe shep was dead, didn't want to go, or was fighting the collectors and Reapers. The point is that him/her knowing or not doesn't matter. He/she is not there.

I guess this might be the case but in that case, I am curious what the reason to go was if it wasn't the reapers. Also, wouldn't it be weird that no one would have at least mentioned the fact that there is at least a group of people that escaped during ME3 if this was public knowledge all along? IIRC, half the conversations in this game were about the extinction of all advanced species in the galaxy. You'd think someone might have tried to cheer people up with "at least we sent the ARK ships away" or something like that.

[UpUpAway]

Wait just a minute......... who the **** said he/she didn't know? We have no reason to believe that we left because of reapers. It was made up of volunteers. Maybe shep was dead, didn't want to go, or was fighting the collectors and Reapers. The point is that him/her knowing or not doesn't matter. He/she is not there.

 

Certainly possible as well.  He/she may have "preferred" the stay behind and fight option even knowing that ARKs were being built to take people out of the galaxy.

[UpUpAway]

 
Really? You think she would keep from Shepard that there is this flicker of hope, especially given the conversations they have in ME3 (and even more especially if they are together)? In that case we seem to have a very different view on these characters.
 
Even logically, it wouldn't make sense for her to hold back. The indoctrination danger is irrelevant in her case since they are together on the Normandy/in battle anyway and would share the same fate. If she know, Shep might as well know, too. And she clearly doesn't think the Shep is already indoctrinated or a security risk in any way. After all, she even shares her own contingency plan (the time capsules).
 
Sorry, IMO the reason "she is an information broker and keeps secrets" is not good enough in this case.

 

I guess this might be the case but in that case, I am curious what the reason to go was if it wasn't the reapers. Also, wouldn't it be weird that no one would have at least mentioned the fact that there is at least a group of people that escaped during ME3 if this was public knowledge all along? IIRC, half the conversations in this game were about the extinction of all advanced species in the galaxy. You'd think someone might have tried to cheer people up with "at least we sent the ARK ships away" or something like that.

 

I'm not talking about indoctrination danger etc.  A whole series "The Unit" was based on the concept of what the guys in the unit had to keep secret - even from their wives lest it endanger their missions.  It's a reality one faces when one "deals in" secrets (as Liara does).  Some people have already suggested that it is possible that her "gift" at the end of ME3 was her revealing to Shepard that there was still hope even if he/she failed (in the form of an ARK project).

 

Would revealing publicly that "we've got ARKs for 100,000 of you that already left... but the rest of you millions have to stay behind and become extinct" cheered people or caused a mass panic/revolt?  People like to have all the people in the "same boat" with them... they don't tend to "like" that some people would have been "chosen" to survive (by their government) above them... particularly if such an initiative was seen as consuming resources that could also be used to actually fight the war.

[SKAR]

Certainly possible as well. He/she may have "preferred" the stay behind and fight option even knowing that ARKs were being built to take people out of the galaxy.

of course. I like to think though that this happened while he/she was dead.

[MrFob]

I'm not talking about indoctrination danger etc.  A whole series "The Unit" was based on the concept of what the guys in the unit had to keep secret - even from their wives lest it endanger their missions.  It's a reality one faces when one "deals in" secrets (as Liara does).

Maybe that's what "The Unit" (awful series by the way) does but as I explained above there is no reason to keep this secret and every reason not to keep it between those two. Besides - and also as I said - Liara clearly doesn't follow the rule for keeping secrets since she tells Shep about the time capsule plan and also gives Shep free access to the Shadow broker network when she still has the LotSB ship (and even in ME3, through the terminal in her room).

And if "the gift" was her telling Shep about it, that why was there no reaction?

[UpUpAway]

Maybe that's what "The Unit" (awful series by the way) does but as I explained above there is no reason to keep this secret and every reason not to keep it between those two. Besides - and also as I said - Liara clearly doesn't follow the rule for keeping secrets since she tells Shep about the time capsule plan and also gives Shep free access to the Shadow broker network when she still has the LotSB ship (and even in ME3, through the terminal in her room).

And if "the gift" was her telling Shep about it, that why was there no reaction?

 

... Am I saying ME is Shakespearean "good" writing?  Don't think so... I'm saying that a premise that's good enough for The Unit might be "good enough" for Bioware.  We're talking a video game here... not a "classic."  Listen, it's all speculation... whatever Bioware came up with to tie the two together will be revealed when THEY want to reveal it.

 

Consider this "possibility" - Liara is screwing Tevos on the side and keeping that from her lover Shepard... along with the info on the ARK.

[MrFob]

... Am I saying ME is Shakespearean "good" writing?  Don't think so... I'm saying that a premise that's good enough for The Unit might be "good enough" for Bioware.  We're talking a video game here... not a "classic."

That's fair enough (though I wish "it's a video game" would some day no longer work as an excuse for mediocre writing). I am not raising these questions because I want to tare down ME:A before it is even out, I am raising them because I hope that this is all stuff the writers also think about. They tried to insert things into ME lore retroactively before with very limited success, so I am curious about what will happen this time. We'll see, maybe they can come up with a really clever idea.

[General TSAR]

Hell no, Shepard has to believe that the war can be won against the reapers.

[Unata]

Even if the Shadow Broker did know, why would she think to hard on a colonization type project, plenty of that going on in the Terminus anyway, what's another one to her? Up until the Reapers did come, life went on as normal.

[UpUpAway]

That's fair enough (though I wish "it's a video game" would some day no longer work as an excuse for mediocre writing). I am not raising these questions because I want to tare down ME:A before it is even out, I am raising them because I hope that this is all stuff the writers also think about. They tried to insert things into ME lore retroactively before with very limited success, so I am curious about what will happen this time. We'll see, maybe they can come up with a really clever idea.

 

If you don't believe they were thinking about ME:A when they wrote ME3 - what choice do they have but to "insert things retroactively" I wonder?  At this stage, we also know the story has been written... and changing it drastically at the last minute to reconsider something a fan brings up is probably a worse situation than just pursuing whatever "course" they've now set for themselves (clever or not).  Changing their minds now isn't suddenly going to make them great writers. (JMO).

[Kabooooom]

There are a non zero number of people who believe we've been on Mars for years. Some people even claim to have been teleported there as part of a secret government project.

More seriously, when was it strongly hinted that the Reapers had nothing to do with this?

I'm not sure what Iakus was talking about, I've followed every shred of Andromeda news or leaks so far and I don't think it's been strongly hinted at all. He might have taken a different interpretation of the same info as me, due to the dev emphasis on exploration, the prior trilogy events being irrelevant, etc.

But really, Bioware would be pretty stupid not to make the voyage to Andromeda be a Reaper plan B escape plan. For one thing, if the Ark leaves pre ME3 ending (which has been more than strongly hinted at this point, I would call it all but confirmed), then a mission of exploration to Andromeda makes little sense when 99% of the Milky Way is unexplored. "Just because we can" is certainly human nature, but technologically it would be like going to Alpha Centauri when we haven't even been to Mars yet. Except even worse than that.

Plus, a mission of survival makes for an infinitely more interesting plot. If the colonists expect, or believe that they are the last survivors of the Milky Way, it ups the ante even more. And to me, that's the most important point - it naturally makes for a better premise for the story.

[Anacronian Stryx]

There might also be the fact that the people of the Andromeda initiative actually think that the milky way is gone - wiped out - and they are the last hope for their species.

[SNascimento]

He is literally making decisions that can kill entire species and seal the fate of the Milk Way galaxy. Knowing that there is at least some chance of survivor even if he fails seems to be a very pertinent informationf for Shepard to have.